zaibatsu
March 6th, 2003, 03:13 PM
sealsix6
Frequent Poster
Posts: 154
From: NYC,NYC,USA
Registered: NOV 2000
posted February 25, 2001 12:02 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok I got this book called Stage Effects With Fire And Smoke. One thing in the book is flash papere and it is also known as Nitrocellouse I was wondering if I could take NC Laquer and apply it to either tissue paper or tracing paper to make flash paper. Once I have aquired flash powder and flash paper with a small steel ball I can make "ninja balls" they are little things taht you throw at the ground and a flash and a smoke come out of them no I am not a KeWl BoMbEr I am into magic and amazing people so I figured it would be intresting to have these around I would like to know if the NC laquer + tissue paper idea would work though thanks and if anyone would like to teach me how to convert pics to pdf I would try and make the book into a pdf once I get some free time on my hands
c0deblue
Frequent Poster
Posts: 229
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted February 25, 2001 03:25 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There's no question a NC-coated paper would be more flammable, but I don't think it would behave in any way like flash paper. I also seriously doubt that impact (with steel balls etc.) would set it off. If that were the case any object or material coated with NC lacquer would be impact-sensitive ... but that's not the case.
Playing cards were (long ago) made of NC-coated card stock, and could be made to explode or to greatly enhance the explosive properties of certain devices if subjected to enough heat and pressure (e.g. sealed in a high pressure steam vessel). However, they would only burn if ignited with a flame.
Interesting idea though, perhaps some other more "specialized" coating would work - if you get my meaning.
Wonder if an AP slurry or a very dilute form of AP putty might do the trick as a brushable coating. Guess it might if the AP would last long enough (given the minimal thickness and surface area of the deposit). Of course it's also possible that absorption into the paper would have a desensitizing effect.
Has anyone experimented with the dried filter paper left over from AP production?
sealsix6
Frequent Poster
Posts: 154
From: NYC,NYC,USA
Registered: NOV 2000
posted February 25, 2001 03:38 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is not only the steel ball with flash paper what it is is you take a 3/4 inch steel ball take the paper roll of caps wrap about half of it around the steel ball evenly then what you do is wrap the flash paper around the ball so it is a ball inside a cylender then you take i think 1/2 a teaspoon or table spoon of flash powder put it in the top part of the cylender then twist it tape it and do the same to the other side then you throw it the weight of the steel ball impacts on teh caps exploding the caps then the flash powder and flash paper
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 25, 2001 04:21 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm pretty sure flash paper is nitrated paper.
sealsix6
Frequent Poster
Posts: 154
From: NYC,NYC,USA
Registered: NOV 2000
posted February 25, 2001 06:49 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is there any easy way to go about making nitrated paper? If not i will just buy some flash paper. Also what is Carbon Tetrachloride and what is Carbon Disulfide? Carbon Tetrachloride sounds very familuar and so does Carbon Disulfide but I dont know what it is and where to get it.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 25, 2001 06:54 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nitrated paper, you just have a regular H2SO4 and HNO3 nitrating mix and dip sheets of paper into a bath of it.
sealsix6
Frequent Poster
Posts: 154
From: NYC,NYC,USA
Registered: NOV 2000
posted February 25, 2001 07:03 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok thank you that sounds simple enough just one problem I didnt take chem yet so I dont know what the regular names are for the forumula so would you be able to tell me the other name for H2SO4 and HNO3 (sorry if it is a stupoid question but the only way I will know is by askin)
Stone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 140
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 25, 2001 07:56 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sulphuric/Sulfuric acid and Nitric Acid...
angelo
Frequent Poster
Posts: 279
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 25, 2001 10:36 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sealsix6, since your interested in magic,
would you by any chance have the book the magicians arsenal?
------------------
angelo's place
have a good link? add it here
firebreether
Frequent Poster
Posts: 108
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted February 26, 2001 02:44 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Flash Paper = Nitrated paper
Nitro cellulose = Guncotton = Nitrated cotton
BoB-
Frequent Poster
Posts: 649
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 26, 2001 02:59 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In this weird dream I poured NC laquer (made from single based smokeless powder) into a 6"ID PVC ring, when I finally managed to get a few bits off the bench I tested them, they burned so fast that I didnt have time to throw them before they burned my hand, but they by no means "flashed", weird dream.
Cricket
Frequent Poster
Posts: 160
From: USA
Registered: OCT 2000
posted February 26, 2001 05:19 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One thing I got for my birthday was a book called Modern Chemical Magic. Very very interesting things to do. I have already read it all. You would like it sealsix6. I have said this in an earlier post, but guess no one saw it so... I made a flash paper (I guess thats what flash paper is like) by dissolving about a 50/50 mix, by volume, of Acetone and AP, then I soaked shit like cardboard, regular paper, and a coffee filter. The thinner the paper, the faster it burned. They would go foofff when I threw them on the stove. It sounded really cool. Ill probly make some later today. It wont be storage stable though. One neat thing was that I was holding some of the pieces of paper with these giant kitchen pliers. When the flame hit the paper in between the pliers (the part touching the papers was only half as thick a pincel and round too), I could hear it snap (like a snap & pop, and it happened because it was confined). Some where I read that Carbon Tetrachloride mixed with high mesh Al powder was a fairly good liquid explosive. It would evaporate though. It also said you shoud use it within 72 hours of production. I think Carbon Tetrachloride is used at dry cleaners places. My mom just said she is going there, wierd. I dont know about the Carbon Disulfide. If you have the slightest intrest in chemical magic, you really should buy that book (Modern Chemical Magic). My favorite trick in there tells you how to pour like 7 or 9 glasses of water from the same container and have them all be very different colors. Then you pour them back in and repour them and they are all crystal clear. Pretty cool.
[This message has been edited by Cricket (edited February 26, 2001).]
sealsix6
Frequent Poster
Posts: 154
From: NYC,NYC,USA
Registered: NOV 2000
posted February 26, 2001 09:04 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whoa that book does sound good I have to go to Barns and Noble and ask if they have it and how much it is and angelo I do not have that book but the next time I got to my magic shop I will ask if he has it or can order it just the name itself sounds intresting.
Cricket
Frequent Poster
Posts: 160
From: USA
Registered: OCT 2000
posted February 26, 2001 11:19 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My book has the sticky price tag scraped off, but my cousin bought it at a Gun Show with me. I think it costs about $5-$10. My dad bought (at the Gun Show) all the guns he came for, and had $1,200-$1,700 left and so he bought 100 oz Silver ($455 I think), and a couple books, guns, clips, much ammo, and a few little odds and ends. It is at school now, but I will get it tomorrow and list the authors if it will help. It dont have anything suspicious in it (so dont feel antsy buying it). All it has in there that could be illegal is flash and flash paper I think.
Cricket
Frequent Poster
Posts: 160
From: USA
Registered: OCT 2000
posted February 27, 2001 06:41 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Modern Chemical Magic
John D. Lippy, Jr.
Edward L Palder
Introduction by Harry Blackstone"
Here is the trick I was referring to earlier.
"Pouring Nine Different Colors from the Same Pitcher
Arrange nine glasses in a row. In the first place a small amount of ferric ammonium sulfate and an equal amount of tannic acid.
(Picture of pitcher and glasses. Also says to use a transparent pitcher.)
In the second put a small amount of strontuim chloride and an equal amount of of sodium carbonate.
In the third put a small amount of sodium salicylate and an equal amount of ferric ammonium sulfate.
In the fourth repeat with cobalt chloride and sodium carbonate.
In the fifth repeat with calcium oxide and a few drops of phenolphthalein solution.
In the sixth repeat with ferric ammonium sulfate and sodium carbonate.
I the seventh put a small amount of sodium ferrocyanide and an equal amount of ferric ammounim sulfate.
In the eighth repeat with with cobalt chloride and sodium ferrocyanide.
In the ninth place some sodium ferrocyanide and ferric ammonium sulfate.
Now fill each glass from a pitcher of water, stirring each one slightly, after you have filled them all. The water will turn a different color as it goes into each glass. The effect is startling as well as beautiful."
This isnt exactly as I remembered, but their are many more like it. I know I read one where you pour it back in the pitcher and then it looks like water. The book is 164 pages long, is you were wondering. Have fun.
sealsix6
Frequent Poster
Posts: 154
From: NYC,NYC,USA
Registered: NOV 2000
posted February 27, 2001 07:41 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whoa that sounds cool I am definially gonna see if I can get that book! not to really jump off topic but I have a question that I put up on the top how can I make a pdf of the book I have?
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 194
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted March 09, 2001 10:36 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sealsix6: Could you please do some punctuation in your posts? It's quite disturbing to read, the way it is just one long sentence.
Frequent Poster
Posts: 154
From: NYC,NYC,USA
Registered: NOV 2000
posted February 25, 2001 12:02 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok I got this book called Stage Effects With Fire And Smoke. One thing in the book is flash papere and it is also known as Nitrocellouse I was wondering if I could take NC Laquer and apply it to either tissue paper or tracing paper to make flash paper. Once I have aquired flash powder and flash paper with a small steel ball I can make "ninja balls" they are little things taht you throw at the ground and a flash and a smoke come out of them no I am not a KeWl BoMbEr I am into magic and amazing people so I figured it would be intresting to have these around I would like to know if the NC laquer + tissue paper idea would work though thanks and if anyone would like to teach me how to convert pics to pdf I would try and make the book into a pdf once I get some free time on my hands
c0deblue
Frequent Poster
Posts: 229
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted February 25, 2001 03:25 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There's no question a NC-coated paper would be more flammable, but I don't think it would behave in any way like flash paper. I also seriously doubt that impact (with steel balls etc.) would set it off. If that were the case any object or material coated with NC lacquer would be impact-sensitive ... but that's not the case.
Playing cards were (long ago) made of NC-coated card stock, and could be made to explode or to greatly enhance the explosive properties of certain devices if subjected to enough heat and pressure (e.g. sealed in a high pressure steam vessel). However, they would only burn if ignited with a flame.
Interesting idea though, perhaps some other more "specialized" coating would work - if you get my meaning.
Wonder if an AP slurry or a very dilute form of AP putty might do the trick as a brushable coating. Guess it might if the AP would last long enough (given the minimal thickness and surface area of the deposit). Of course it's also possible that absorption into the paper would have a desensitizing effect.
Has anyone experimented with the dried filter paper left over from AP production?
sealsix6
Frequent Poster
Posts: 154
From: NYC,NYC,USA
Registered: NOV 2000
posted February 25, 2001 03:38 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is not only the steel ball with flash paper what it is is you take a 3/4 inch steel ball take the paper roll of caps wrap about half of it around the steel ball evenly then what you do is wrap the flash paper around the ball so it is a ball inside a cylender then you take i think 1/2 a teaspoon or table spoon of flash powder put it in the top part of the cylender then twist it tape it and do the same to the other side then you throw it the weight of the steel ball impacts on teh caps exploding the caps then the flash powder and flash paper
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 25, 2001 04:21 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm pretty sure flash paper is nitrated paper.
sealsix6
Frequent Poster
Posts: 154
From: NYC,NYC,USA
Registered: NOV 2000
posted February 25, 2001 06:49 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is there any easy way to go about making nitrated paper? If not i will just buy some flash paper. Also what is Carbon Tetrachloride and what is Carbon Disulfide? Carbon Tetrachloride sounds very familuar and so does Carbon Disulfide but I dont know what it is and where to get it.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 25, 2001 06:54 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nitrated paper, you just have a regular H2SO4 and HNO3 nitrating mix and dip sheets of paper into a bath of it.
sealsix6
Frequent Poster
Posts: 154
From: NYC,NYC,USA
Registered: NOV 2000
posted February 25, 2001 07:03 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok thank you that sounds simple enough just one problem I didnt take chem yet so I dont know what the regular names are for the forumula so would you be able to tell me the other name for H2SO4 and HNO3 (sorry if it is a stupoid question but the only way I will know is by askin)
Stone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 140
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 25, 2001 07:56 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sulphuric/Sulfuric acid and Nitric Acid...
angelo
Frequent Poster
Posts: 279
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 25, 2001 10:36 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sealsix6, since your interested in magic,
would you by any chance have the book the magicians arsenal?
------------------
angelo's place
have a good link? add it here
firebreether
Frequent Poster
Posts: 108
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted February 26, 2001 02:44 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Flash Paper = Nitrated paper
Nitro cellulose = Guncotton = Nitrated cotton
BoB-
Frequent Poster
Posts: 649
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 26, 2001 02:59 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In this weird dream I poured NC laquer (made from single based smokeless powder) into a 6"ID PVC ring, when I finally managed to get a few bits off the bench I tested them, they burned so fast that I didnt have time to throw them before they burned my hand, but they by no means "flashed", weird dream.
Cricket
Frequent Poster
Posts: 160
From: USA
Registered: OCT 2000
posted February 26, 2001 05:19 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One thing I got for my birthday was a book called Modern Chemical Magic. Very very interesting things to do. I have already read it all. You would like it sealsix6. I have said this in an earlier post, but guess no one saw it so... I made a flash paper (I guess thats what flash paper is like) by dissolving about a 50/50 mix, by volume, of Acetone and AP, then I soaked shit like cardboard, regular paper, and a coffee filter. The thinner the paper, the faster it burned. They would go foofff when I threw them on the stove. It sounded really cool. Ill probly make some later today. It wont be storage stable though. One neat thing was that I was holding some of the pieces of paper with these giant kitchen pliers. When the flame hit the paper in between the pliers (the part touching the papers was only half as thick a pincel and round too), I could hear it snap (like a snap & pop, and it happened because it was confined). Some where I read that Carbon Tetrachloride mixed with high mesh Al powder was a fairly good liquid explosive. It would evaporate though. It also said you shoud use it within 72 hours of production. I think Carbon Tetrachloride is used at dry cleaners places. My mom just said she is going there, wierd. I dont know about the Carbon Disulfide. If you have the slightest intrest in chemical magic, you really should buy that book (Modern Chemical Magic). My favorite trick in there tells you how to pour like 7 or 9 glasses of water from the same container and have them all be very different colors. Then you pour them back in and repour them and they are all crystal clear. Pretty cool.
[This message has been edited by Cricket (edited February 26, 2001).]
sealsix6
Frequent Poster
Posts: 154
From: NYC,NYC,USA
Registered: NOV 2000
posted February 26, 2001 09:04 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whoa that book does sound good I have to go to Barns and Noble and ask if they have it and how much it is and angelo I do not have that book but the next time I got to my magic shop I will ask if he has it or can order it just the name itself sounds intresting.
Cricket
Frequent Poster
Posts: 160
From: USA
Registered: OCT 2000
posted February 26, 2001 11:19 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My book has the sticky price tag scraped off, but my cousin bought it at a Gun Show with me. I think it costs about $5-$10. My dad bought (at the Gun Show) all the guns he came for, and had $1,200-$1,700 left and so he bought 100 oz Silver ($455 I think), and a couple books, guns, clips, much ammo, and a few little odds and ends. It is at school now, but I will get it tomorrow and list the authors if it will help. It dont have anything suspicious in it (so dont feel antsy buying it). All it has in there that could be illegal is flash and flash paper I think.
Cricket
Frequent Poster
Posts: 160
From: USA
Registered: OCT 2000
posted February 27, 2001 06:41 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Modern Chemical Magic
John D. Lippy, Jr.
Edward L Palder
Introduction by Harry Blackstone"
Here is the trick I was referring to earlier.
"Pouring Nine Different Colors from the Same Pitcher
Arrange nine glasses in a row. In the first place a small amount of ferric ammonium sulfate and an equal amount of tannic acid.
(Picture of pitcher and glasses. Also says to use a transparent pitcher.)
In the second put a small amount of strontuim chloride and an equal amount of of sodium carbonate.
In the third put a small amount of sodium salicylate and an equal amount of ferric ammonium sulfate.
In the fourth repeat with cobalt chloride and sodium carbonate.
In the fifth repeat with calcium oxide and a few drops of phenolphthalein solution.
In the sixth repeat with ferric ammonium sulfate and sodium carbonate.
I the seventh put a small amount of sodium ferrocyanide and an equal amount of ferric ammounim sulfate.
In the eighth repeat with with cobalt chloride and sodium ferrocyanide.
In the ninth place some sodium ferrocyanide and ferric ammonium sulfate.
Now fill each glass from a pitcher of water, stirring each one slightly, after you have filled them all. The water will turn a different color as it goes into each glass. The effect is startling as well as beautiful."
This isnt exactly as I remembered, but their are many more like it. I know I read one where you pour it back in the pitcher and then it looks like water. The book is 164 pages long, is you were wondering. Have fun.
sealsix6
Frequent Poster
Posts: 154
From: NYC,NYC,USA
Registered: NOV 2000
posted February 27, 2001 07:41 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whoa that sounds cool I am definially gonna see if I can get that book! not to really jump off topic but I have a question that I put up on the top how can I make a pdf of the book I have?
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 194
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted March 09, 2001 10:36 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sealsix6: Could you please do some punctuation in your posts? It's quite disturbing to read, the way it is just one long sentence.