UK X-Ray Cameras

[Chaosmark]

http://www.breitbart.com/news/na/paXrayMon03Xraycameras.html

The Government is considering installing X-ray cameras on lampposts to spot armed terrorists and other criminals.

According to a leaked memo seen by The Sun, "detection of weapons and explosives will become easier" if the scheme drawn up by Home Office officials is adopted.

However, officials acknowledged that it would be highly controversial as the cameras can "see" through clothing.

"The social acceptability of routine intrusive detection measures and the operational response required in the event of an alarm are likely to be limiting factors," the memo warned.

"Privacy is an issue because the machines see through clothing."

The Sun reported that the memo, dated January 17, was drawn up by the Home Office for the Prime Minister's working group on security crime and justice.

It noted that some technologies used for airport security had already been used in police operations searching for drugs and weapons in nightclubs.

"These and other could be developed for a much more widespread use in public places," it said.

"Street furniture could routinely house detection systems that would indicate the likely presence of a gun for example."

A Home Office spokeswoman said: "We don't comment on leaked documents".

So, apparently the UK government wants to be even more intrusive with regards to their surfs. Take away their weapons, and you can do just about anything you want to them. I feel for you Jacks Complete; I'd hate to live in such a stupid country (heck, I was born there and I've got no love for it). At least here we've got a fighting chance thanks to our Constitution (though that's not a bulletproof defense, as Waco proved).

Other thoughts, comments?

[knowledgehungry]

My thought is that if our Founding Fathers hadn't revolted against the Brits back in 1776, I would be doing it right now :D.

[nbk2000]

These aren't actual X-Ray devices, rather, they visualize the millimetric microwave energy emitted by all living things, and allow for seeing those concealed objects that block/absorb the radiation.

[Frunk]

These aren't actual X-Ray devices

I would hope so, I don't like getting my cellular membranes punctured by some X-ray photons when strolling down the street. I'm sure the pregnant women don't like it when their baby's DNA gets damaged either.

[nbk2000]

The lightpole scanner's aren't active X-Ray, but the mobile backscatter scanner they drive down the street to scan parked cars IS.

[sbovisjb1]

http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/4369/athfcarlwashmo5.jpg Thats what the "average" citizen thinks. :mad:

[Jacks Complete]

Careful, posting an Adult SWIM message might get you into trouble!
http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?t=6184

Yes, they routinely set up roadblocks to check for, well, anything they feel like. You drive past head height tax disc video cameras, which obviously record your face at the same time. There are cameras everywhere, to the extent that they are now talking about charging for miles driven, as they can track your car on every major road. It's illegal to make your own numberplates.

There was a bit in the paper about how they shear the sheep. The police turned out in force to a railway station, and set up barriers and a metal detector. They simply expected everyone to walk through it, and if you beeped, you were searched on "reasonable suspicion". Of course, the police don't actually have the power to force you to walk through the detector, but they simply don't give you the option.

Someone resisted, and he and his son were allowed past the scanner. The Catch 22? They could easily have stil stopped them after the scanner, and searched them anyway, on the grounds that avoiding the scanner was in itself reasonable suspicion!

It's a bag of shite. And it does nothing. The scallies run wild, raping, killing and petty theving to such a level that the police don't turn out for thefts, and won't prosecute assaults not witnessed by a police officer. The prisons are full. Crime is getting worse. And we are running outselves ragged on imagined terror threats.

Technology of oppression is not the answer. Personal responsibility, and giving the power back to the people is the answer, but the UK took that away about 35 years ago, and then passed this weird idea on to almost everywhere else. The US is the only vocal guardian of anything approaching personal rights, and it's not the US government who are doing that protecting!

[Match]

I had no idea it was that bad jack, I feel sorry for you.

I think you guys should just all leave that place and leave it for the immigrants, You guys are loosing horribly.

[megalomania]

Let me get this straight: the government will be hanging devices all over the city that see right through the cloths of lollies, schoolgirls, and your average teeny slut. What is to stop all the pervs from stealing the cameras and hanging them outside the haunt of their choice to get all the nudy pics their fap stick can handle? If everyone knows these things are hanging all over, why would one facing the schoolyard be suspicious?

This plan can't possibly go wrong...

[Chaosmark]

Mega: jack squat. What's worse is that most of those pervs will be down in the station watching the cameras.

"Hey John, get in here! It's almost 3:30, school's about to let out!"

[Gerbil]

I can actually sympathise with the idea of CCTV cameras in certain places (dark alleyways, private shops, etc). It gives an extra presence and comfort to some people, and, with good lighting, does help to deter crime to some extent.

This, however, is beyond a joke. I don't actually think that there are active plans to turn the UK into a police state (there would be no real benefit to politicians in the current system, not least because they get voted out of office), but we are definitely sleepwalking into one. Ideas of compulsory RF tags...ID cards...and now this. What the hell's happened to my country? If I wasn't so fond of the scenery, I'd be thinking about leaving it. Then again, where else is there? The US's branding as "Land of the Free" is rather ironic given the current policies. Hmmm...Antarctica sounds good.

If the addition of these cameras would make all crime and social problems vanish into the mist, then I might be slightly more open about them. But the reality is that they will do absolutely nothing, except maybe pick up a couple of suspected firearms carriers (who will then get lost in the crowd). Of course, everyone's human rights will be violated in the process.

Unlike quite a few people, I don't actually channel my anger towards the police- they're just following orders. Politicians are the ones that make the laws, and they're the ones that we need to get rid of.

[Jacks Complete]

Why would you need X-ray cameras for that? Half the school girls round here wear micro-mini-skirts anyway!

The ACPO (The top cops, who came in direct from university, APCO is Association of Chief Police Officers) push for more and better toys and more and better powers all day, every day. They generally get what they want, as Whitehall goes along with it, and, of course, adds it's own wants. Read El Reg to see just how crappy the systems are, for now. Institutional ineptitude is the reason to be, for hundreds of thousands of govt. employees, because if you do it right first time, it stays done. Do it wrong every time, you will retire rich, since the public's pockets are limitlessly deep.

And with enough money spent on the PR and enough crap shoved down our throats by political figures, police and the BBC, most people accept it as inevitable. Just look at the road pricing idea! No-one wants it, and we all know it will happen, and we all know it will be used, in a few years time, for speed enforcement as well as taxation.

And, just like road use tracking, cameras everywhere massively distorts the governments power. They can pretend that they are effective.

[c.Tech]

This, however, is beyond a joke. I don't actually think that there are active plans to turn the UK into a police state
From what I've heard in this thread and my understanding of what a police state is it looks the UK is already deep within one.

What would so suddenly turn the UK into a police state? It certainly couldn’t have happened by accident.

[Gerbil]

In a police state, we wouldn't be voicing our disagreement.

[c.Tech]

With political terms there can be a fine line between one term and the other. What you said I would describe that part of a deeper police state more likely to be a dictatorship.

None the less it looks like it’s heading that way, like I said "It certainly couldn’t have happened by accident."

Wiki The classification of a country or regime as a police state is usually contested and debated.

I would like to hear some of the older and more knowledge members opinion on this.

[knowledgehungry]

One thing that I believe (correct me if I am wrong please) the UK police lack is firearms. Some of them do carry guns, but most do not. I am not sure if you could classify the UK as a police state, because while it certainly sounds like the police have large amounts of power, from what I hear the courts over there are pretty lenient to the criminals. What is the harm of a police state if after the police arrest you you are free the next week?

[LibertyOrDeath]

I think of a police state as being any nation where the government (and its attack pigs, meaning the police) has total power, even if that power isn't being abused. It can be abused in the future, and if history is any guide, it will be.

In order to have rights, citizens have to be able to make the government fear them to some degree. They have to be willing and equipped to fight to the death rather than let the pigs walk over them. That means the citizens have to have weapons that are effective enough for combat. Once a nation has been disarmed its people are effectively enslaved, even if they are (at present, at least) well-treated and allowed many privileges, since the agents of the government could impose tyranny on them if they wanted to. For all intents and purposes, human rights don't exist unless backed up by force or the threat of force.

If I lived in a country (or part of the US) that didn't allow me to legally own weapons like assault rifles, then I'd either move or make every effort to acquire the weapons illegally.

Regarding these cameras, it might be time for people to start incorporating conductive metals into their clothing. It might sound "tinfoil hat," but if it works, I'd say it's justified. I wonder if something like a very fine chainmail or metal mesh woven into a jacket would be opaque to these devices (which I assume use millimeter waves rather than actual x-rays).

[Gerbil]

Once a nation has been disarmed its people are effectively enslaved, even if they are (at present, at least) well-treated and allowed many privileges, since the agents of the government could impose tyranny on them if they wanted to.

You forget that in democracy, the people are the government. In theory, anyway :p

[Jacks Complete]

The answer to your questions is simple. It is a police state because of the actions of the government. They desperately want an ID card scheme. No-one knows why. The judges have reacted against this, and refuse to give out long sentences (they also do it because some of htem are so soft it is insane) for even horrific crimes, and the police ask for and get more powers every other week. And the MPs and the Lords don't have much say either, as the executive have all the power now.

So, we have a government that seems happy to have everyone arrested for tiny infractions, DNA and fingerprint retention, and ID cards for stop and check on the near horizon.

It is the set-up for a police state. Everyone is a criminal, and is recorded. And that is only fair (!) as they have broken the law (dropped litter, swore, killed a few people) and got the same punishment of an ASBO or a fine. But they all gave that DNA sample and it was/will be checked against the system.

I don't know the motive, though. Blur's legacy? He's up to something. He has managed to use "I'll be going before the next election" to get away with murder, yet, at this rate, he won't even be holding one, he'll just name himself God Emperor. Then, in 20 years, he'll go, just before the country holds free elections.

It's unlikely, but, sadly, it's now possible! And it shouldn't be.

[knowledgehungry]

The judges have reacted against this, and refuse to give out long sentences (they also do it because some of htem are so soft it is insane) for even horrific crimes, and the police ask for and get more powers every other week.

Maybe the judges know that the sheep will not be grateful of, nor request for the "protection" of a police state, if all the wolves are in jail where they belong... If the criminals were in jail there would be no need to ban guns, as there would be no gun crime. Let the scum off and you need to control guns because the criminals use them...