HemlockWater Dropwort

[paroxysm]

I live in England, and we have a lot of small rivers and streams flowing nearby, on the banks of those streams is an awful lot of Hemlock Water Dropwort.
I have next to no knowledge of poisons and I could do with some help, I have found a reasonable amount on the use of Foxglove digitalis but was wondering if they were in anyway similar.
I was wondering whether anyone knew the amount of extracted sap it would take to kill a small rodent, such as a rabbit or squirrel and would it be edible afterwards?

[ultma]

http://www.henriettesherbal.com/eclectic/usdisp/oenanthe.html

http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/h/hemwat19.html

http://www.gardenorganic.org.uk/organicweeds/weed_information/weed.php?id=110

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coniine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digitalis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiac_glycoside

Active alkaloids: anagyrine, ammodendrine, anabasine, coniine.

I dont know about eating them you like rat, mice, & rabbits?

On that subject:
Casarett & Doull's Toxicology 6th edition. page 1083
Miscellaneous Contaminants in Food
Rodricks and Pohland (1981) pointed out an interesting historical case of the possible transfer of a toxic botanic chemical from an animal to humans which was first indentified Hall (1979). It is found in the bible, Book of Numbers, 11:31-33, which describes hungry israelitess inundated with quail blown in from the sea; those who ate the quail quickly died. Hall speculated that the quail had consumed various poisonous berries, including hemlock, while they overwintered in Africa. the hemlock beery contains coniine, a neurotoxic alkaloid to which quail are resistant and that can accumulate in their tissue. Humans are not resistant to coniine, and consumption of large quantities of quail tissue containing the neurotoxin could result in death as described in the biblical text.


try UTFSE :D

[Gerbil]

You want to eat squirrels? :rolleyes:
Seriously, if you're looking for food, it might be better (albeit slightly less original) to get a CO2 rifle.

[ultma]

On that subject:
Casarett & Doull's Toxicology 6th edition. page 1083
Miscellaneous Contaminants in Food
Rodricks and Pohland (1981) pointed out an interesting historical case of the possible transfer of a toxic botanic chemical from an animal to humans which was first indentified Hall (1979).


On that subject I wonder what other animal resistant/Human sensitive compounds there are.

Randomly dosing livestock from different farms (to avoid tracability from farm to fork), or even mass dosing into rendering products destined for animal feed.

The same thing could happen with plants.

A nice way to get someone dont you think grow a sheep/cow/pig/chicken build up levels of a toxin via feed(plant or adulterated processed feed), kill and process the animal wrap it up and swap it for a simialr item in the victims freezer.

[chemdude1999]

A nice way to get someone dont you think grow a sheep/cow/pig/chicken build up levels of a toxin via feed(plant or adulterated processed feed), kill and process the animal wrap it up and swap it for a simialr item in the victims freezer.

If that would work, it would be fucking brilliant. That isn't revenge. That is gaslighting. My questions are:

1.) Would the toxin metabolize differently in the live animal, thus changing it?
2.) Would processing the meat change the toxin characteristics?
3.) If unaltered, would there be enough toxin to do the dead (i.e., concentration)?

I love the idea, but it has some hurtles. And I don't rely on the Bible for solid biochemical information.

[nbk2000]

I know that there are poisons that kill an animal, and then the animals that eat the dead animal.

Sodium Fluoroacetate is one such poison.

[Bugger]

I know that there are poisons that kill an animal, and then the animals that eat the dead animal. Sodium Fluoroacetate is one such poison.
I think that cyanide, e.g. the NaCN or KCN used in poisoned apple jam to kill the introduced Australian brushtail opossum in New Zealand, quickly so that they die instantly to enable recovery of their pelts, does that too. However, sodium monofluoroacetate is used more widely to kill them, usually by aerial drop from planes or helicopters over rugged bush country, where it is impractical to recover their pelts. In both cases, feral and domestic dogs, and other introduced predators like rats, wildcats, stoats, and ferrets, that have scavenged on their carcasses, have also been killed.

[chemdude1999]

Is there any poisons that can fit the bill that wouldn't show up on a tox screen? If you are going to the trouble of hiding the poison in the first place, you should at least attempt to mask it from the ME.

If you are just wanting to do mass killing, then the above methods would work fine.

[atlas#11]

"A nice way to get someone dont you think grow a sheep/cow/pig/chicken build up levels of a toxin via feed(plant or adulterated processed feed), kill and process the animal wrap it up and swap it for a simialr item in the victims freezer."

A piece of hemlock the size of an acorn is said to be enough to kill a bull... I'm not sure on the metabolism of other single-stomach live stock, but I'm guessing its probably not as effective, but still most likely too potent to make this practical. You'd be better off slipping an extract into their meal directly.

As for your new McRodent diet... build a trap for god's sake! Even if you do manage to drop the rodent with hemlock and not die from eating it, your still pumping your system with alkaloids who will be more than happy to mess with your central nervous system in doses well below a lethal threshold. I seriously advise against it...