Amateur Local Weather Control

[Frunk]

This is a far-fetched thread, hence the Water Cooler.

We're here to discuss the possibility that a ressourceful individual could potentially alter his neighborhood's weather through OTC means.

I've consulted the great wikipedia on this, since I have found that it hasn't been talked about here aside from the conspiracy theories.

There are basically two options.

1.Cloud seeding
2.Electromagnetic emittors.

Obviously, the first choice is the best for the amateur, as the second is potentially bogus and/or requires millions of dollars and a HAARP type installation.

Cloud seeding is the art of making a cloud precipitate water or ice. Basically, it's as simple as dumping silver iodide, liquid methane or dry ice in a cloud in significant quantities.

How could an amateur do that? Rockets! He could use a homemade high-powered chemical(KNO3/Sucrose) rocket to get to low clouds. These rockets have reportedly reached altitudes of over 5000 feet. This is going to be a pretty large rocket, so he could just replace the parachute with a substantial quantity of seeding agent and let the ejection charge do its job.

A second way would be (don't laugh) balloons. Helium or hydrogen filled balloons can go a long way, about 5000 feet too. Surplus weather balloons are even better. The hypothetical climate controller would just have to rig up an electronic altimeter to a payload ejection charge. Weather balloons are probably much more reliable than rockets, but they are governed solely by the wind, therefore they're harder to aim.

It would also be possible to rig a kilo of smoke bomb mixture to a parachute and the rocket it to a medium altitude, creating an artificial cloud and blanketing the neighboorhood in shadow. Example k3wl ground-lit device (http://www.guzer.com/videos/huge_smoke_bomb.php) that would certainly be visible at a 1km altitude. For the larger (2 to 10 KG range) smoke devices, it would be better to use a few weather balloons.

I have also heard tidbits about laser induced lightning, but I can't really find any other info than the name.


Thoughts? Ideas for experimental weather catalysts?

[Michelangelo]

I have also heard tidbits about laser induced lightning, but I can't really find any other info than the name.

Rocket triggered lightning is well established, where a large rocket with a spool of reinforced wire is (remotely!) fired into the belly of a ripe cumulonimbus. The wire provides the conductive path for a downstroke.

There's bound to be decent writeups in the "methods" section of relevant articles in academic journals. If I remember properly, the CRC has a few references to this in the Atmospheric chapter, but my copy's at the office.

[metallicash]

I have also heard tidbits about laser induced lightning, but I can't really find any other info than the name.


Laser induced lightning is where a laser ionizes the air, making it conductive for the lightning to travel down.
This is being attempted for a 'non lethal' weapon, where a powerful laser is aimed at a person, ionizing the air, sending a high voltage through it and shocking that person.

[Frunk]

Laser induced lightning is where a laser ionizes the air, making it conductive for the lightning to travel down.
This is being attempted for a 'non lethal' weapon, where a powerful laser is aimed at a person, ionizing the air, sending a high voltage through it and shocking that person.

I knew about wireless tazers. Any kind of lightning gun rocks.

Ionizing a few kilometers long narrow beam of air is probably way harder. The lightning would also without a doubt arc back to the origin point of the lazer...

[nbk2000]

It's spelt TASER, not TAZER.

Same goes for laser.

And people wonder why they can't find any results doing a search...because people don't use the proper words for things.

A helikite holding a wire up in a thunderhead is likely to call down the lightning, but to what purpose?

And cloud seeding only works when it's almost going to rain anyways. If you have clear and sunny skies, there's not a damn thing you can do about it.

[Alexires]

Hmmm.

An interesting idea, if a TAD kewl.

I think the laser idea is bogus. You probably could work out how much energy it would require to ionise that much air, but I wouldn't bother. An idea (involving laser) that is slightly more possible would be to set up a kind of mirror/amplifier at the target. Then the idea would be to wait until a thunderstorm was approaching and point multiple lasers at it. Using constructive interference, you could possibly increase its power by a factor of 20 (depending on how many lasers you can afford to point at it). The mirror/amplifier then aims the now powerful beam into the sky hopefully calling down a lightning strike.

You must be dreaming if you want to use KNO3/Sugar rockets to deliver a payload even remotely capable of changing weather. Personally, I think you have a better chance doing a rain dance.

Your balloon idea is better, but still, the sheer amount required to do what you want would be astronomical.

Here is an idea. We have all seen footage of massive explosions going off. In them there is a sphere of expanding precipitated water caused by local overpressure (I'm assuming).

Why not get a fairly large charge (read 50kg+) and loft it into the sky with hydrogen balloons (adds to the bang and the water) into the middle of heavy cloud. When the charge goes off, there may be a possibility that the over-pressure causes the water to precipitate, but then it falls instead of being re-absorbed into the air.

Do some research into these electromagnetic weather altering devices Frunk. The more we know, the more we might be able to use it.

If it is something like a certain spectrum of EM radiation causing precipitation of something, then maybe a kind of multi-source-constructive-interference device like the lasers above might work.

Finally, an expansion on Michelangelo's idea of rocket-wire. Instead of firing it into the cloud (think big thrust and visibility from below) fly a weather balloon above the cloud with the spool already in the basket. Then just drop the coiled end and let it unroll to the ground. A lightning strike then may/may not happen, but at least you don't need to give away your position.

[Zajcek]

I saw a documentary couple of years ago about scientists dropping some hundred kilograms of super absorbent polymer into a massive cloud formation.

It said that the cloud simply disappeared.

Maybe you could do the same thing with the weather balloon and dispersing super absorbent material with an explosive device.

I found a similar article somewhere on the net, but I do not know how much of this is true.
http://www.anomalies-unlimited.com/Chemtrails/Dyn-O-Gel.html


One of the conspiracy theories suggests that Serbian scientist and inventor Nikola Tesla could control the weather with so called "scalar weapons" based on electromagnetism and resonance.

It is interesting what can we find with searching the net.
Not sure for this one either:
http://www.failedsuccess.com/index.php?/weblog/more/arch_weather_story

[Frunk]

An interesting idea, if a TAD kewl.



You must be dreaming if you want to use KNO3/Sugar rockets to deliver a payload even remotely capable of changing weather. Personally, I think you have a better chance doing a rain dance.

Your balloon idea is better, but still, the sheer amount required to do what you want would be astronomical
This idea is very theoretical, but hey, isn't this entire forum supposed to be about *dreaming* to make stuff ? :D

The rocket idea is very improbable but using weather balloons is definately doable. These can have 2 kg of lift each. There are a few reported cases of lawnchair/cluster of weather baloons flying machines. You can buy some 5' balloons right here (https://secure.scientificsales.com/weather/Details.cfm?ProdID=129&category=18) for 30 bucks each.


Here is an idea. We have all seen footage of massive explosions going off. In them there is a sphere of expanding precipitated water caused by local overpressure (I'm assuming).

Why not get a fairly large charge (read 50kg+) and loft it into the sky with hydrogen balloons (adds to the bang and the water) into the middle of heavy cloud. When the charge goes off, there may be a possibility that the over-pressure causes the water to precipitate, but then it falls instead of being re-absorbed into the air.


Any kind of explosion in the air would probably be a fart in the wind, pun intended. If I'm going to buy enough balloons to lift a 50 kg barrel of ANFO, I might as well make a flying machine or use half that weight of dry ice.


Do some research into these electromagnetic weather altering devices Frunk. The more we know, the more we might be able to use it.

If it is something like a certain spectrum of EM radiation causing precipitation of something, then maybe a kind of multi-source-constructive-interference device like the lasers above might work.

No, it's simply a brute force method of pumping EM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAARP#HAARP_controversy) into the atmosphere. Basically, fire a beam of energy at the ionosphere, predict the reflection trajectory and you could boil water in the ocean, causing a cloud to form.

Finally, an expansion on Michelangelo's idea of rocket-wire. Instead of firing it into the cloud (think big thrust and visibility from below) fly a weather balloon above the cloud with the spool already in the basket. Then just drop the coiled end and let it unroll to the ground. A lightning strike then may/may not happen, but at least you don't need to give away your position.

Seems doable, there's no reason why it wouldn't work. I think we've pretty much established that weather baloons are the way to go. Building a rocket that goes 10 000 ft. takes lots of money while a weather balloon costs 30$ and lifts 2 kg.

[Gerbil]

For cloud seeding, a more reliable method would be to disperse your compound of choice directly into the cloud from a light aircraft (if you're lucky enough to own one). Obviously, this wouldn't be applicable if you wanted any kind of stealth, or to remain anonymous...although you would have a method of escape, depending on the situation.

A KNO3/sucrose rocket wouldn't be able to carry any real weight, even if you managed to build one capable of reaching clouds.

[FUTI]

If you plan to seed cloud with smoke bomb or whatever you had in mind...don't use KNO3. Use KClO3 or KClO4 instead...it was reported in the early days of rocketry that rocket based on that oxidant leave visible trail of water vapour. And having in mind that Israelis use KCl as substance for cloud seeding instead of AgI...sounds like we can't miss with that.

And I like baloon idea. Cheap and simple.

[Michelangelo]

With respect to inducing lightning strikes, the references in this paper look promising (though it does not appear to be cheap and simple):

Willet, et al., 1999, An Experimental Study of Positive Leaders Initiating Rocket-Triggered Lightning, Atmospheric Research, v 51, pp. 189-219

http://www.atmo.arizona.edu/students/courselinks/spring05/atmo589/articles/Willett_et_al_RTL_Atmos_Res_July_1999.pdf