Exotic primary

[the freshmaker]

I'm looking for some "unknown" explosives, for example silver oxalate and silver (or mercury) tartrate. If anyone have information about these I would appreciate a reply.
-please post if you have some information on other "exotic" primary explosives. thanks

[LEXX]

Mmmm, you need exotic primary explosives?
May-be that interesrting for you:
1)Peroxides of Zn, Hg, and may be Cu are sensitive explosives! Mix them with Al-powder or charcoal and that will be more powerful explosives.
2)Perchlorate Hg - thery agressive (like acid) and sensitive explosive.
3)K3CrO8 - Blats after 170 Celsium.
4)SrWO8 and BaWO8 blats after 100 Celsium.
5)K3VO8,Na2WO8 - thery unstabilised, half-life (0 Cels) - week or monf. Thery danger explosive!
6)(NH4)3CrO8 - destruct at 150-170 C, may-be with blast.
7)Ag2O2 + silver (or mercury) tartrate
8)N2H3Na
9)Na(or K) + PCL3 (or PCL5, CCL4, CHCL3 and other).
10)2Na(or 2K) + I2 = mix with pressure = blast
11)AgCLO3 - exsplosive to.
And other.Sorry for my bad english.

[FadeToBlackened]

What is CrO8?

[VasiaPupkin]

Excuse me for my bad english too
Its peroxochromates (red or blue). It can be make from chromates and H2O2 (If it will be in acidic solution. May be blue crystalls - more dangerous)
But... Its no very powerful explosives. Common primary explosives much better.

[the freshmaker]

thanks LEXX. How sensitive are Zinc peroxide and how can I make it. Isn't it something like heating it to a very hightemperature or? It isn't just to let Zn react with H2O2 is it?. I'm also interested in Silver Tartrate and Oxalate. Anyone? PHILOU??

[deezs]

Exotic means uncommon. Chemists and engineers are clever. They use the safest explosives. If they don't use it, it is not safe. Or just expensive.

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"Don't belive anything, just because there is a good proverb for it."

"To avoid injury in a battle, watch them from the nearer hill."

[PHILOU Zrealone]

Mercury chlorite II Hg(ClO2)2
Lead glycerolate II CH2OH-CH2(O-)-CH2(O-)Pb
Ammonium chlorite NH4ClO2
Ammonium nitrite NH4NO2
Mercury cyanate and cyanure II Hg(OCN)2 & Hg(CN)2
...

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"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"

[PHILOU Zrealone]

ArO3, XeO3

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"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"

[-A-]

ArO3, XeO3
Can you explain a little more on this ones?

[Lagen]

I've got info only on XeO3 - it's not a joke! Xenon trioxide is known to exist and is highly explosive. Maybe ArO3 exists too, but my book is about 4 years old. Xenon forms compounds more easily, so I guess the XeO3 was discovered first. This is a newly emerging area of chemistry - compounds of inert gases. If I mentioned any in my high school chemistry class, or even quoted the redox potential for XeF, I wouldn't be allowed to pass!

[Ezikiel]

Xe also forms XeF2, XeF4 and XeF6. Kr forms KrF2 only. Ar does form florides but I am not sure about Oxides.

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"Go out in a BLAZE OF GLORY"

[Lagen]

Yep, the XeF4 can be used to form the XeO3 (with water). I'm not sure if this can be done at home, though. Xenon forms loads of compounds, some of them (perxenates) already being used as oxidizing agents! KrF2 is being prepared in gram quantities, besides that, ArKr, KrH, KrXe and Kr clathrates with hydroquinone and phenol exist. "A higher fluoride of krypton and a salt of an oxyacid of krypton also have been reported." Regarding the argon, it forms ArKr, ArXe and NeAr and a hydrate stable at high pressure. With beta-hydroquinone it's just a clathrate. I too lack any info on the oxide.

[Nitro]

How do you make lead glycerolate looks like an simple explosive

[the freshmaker]

How can I make Ammonium permangante?
I have read that it explodes at 140F. and should be very shock sensitive(!)
Do you need permanganate acid(?) or can it be done by potassium permangante and an ammonia-compound?

[FadeToBlackened]

Philou once said it could be made by treating ammonium hydroxide with manganese heptoxide (from sulfuric acid + KMnO4). Search in misc for both of the posts.

[PHILOU Zrealone]

Yes rare gas are said to be inert gasses but with the highly electronegative F2 you get fluorides of those compounds what can lead to oxydes afterwards!
Those oxydes are of course quite unstable and the reaction
2XeO3--> 2Xe + 3 O2
can easily take place with a terrific boom in contact with heat, reducers, dusts, metals! Unfortunately F2 is hard to manipulate since it reacts with nearly anything!

You can try to make Ca(MnO4)2 and add (NH4)2SO4 then filtrate the unsoluble CaSO4 and cristallise the violet salt of NH4MnO4 (no heat!).

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"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"

[the freshmaker]

Unfortuneatly I don't have any Ca(MnO4)2 in my chem. collection, but ofcause I have alot of KMnO4. Could this be used?.
Are there any other explosive/powerfull oxidiser compounds of MnO4?

[Lagen]

Preparation of Manganese Heptoxide:
Materials: potassium permanganate (KMnO4), sulfuric acid 92-96%
Procedure: Place 5g powdered potassium permanganate in a small beaker. To this add 5ml concentrated sulfuric acid. Gently swirl the mixture to blend the components. A dark green oily liquid will form. This is manganese(VII) heptoxide (Mn2O7), a powerful oxidizer. It incinerates almost every organic compound. Some experiments to do with it:
Twist a wad of cotton around a wooden splinter, immerse this in the liquid and take it out immediately. The cotton will start burning in 1-5 seconds. Place any organic compound (sugar, flour, starch, pieces of wood, hay, paper, styrofoam...) on a fireproof surface, by addition of a few drops of Mn2O7 these will catch on fire. Flammable liquids (ethanol, gas, acetone, toluene, paint thinner...) can be lit in a similar fashion. WARNING: Pour the flammables out in a thin layer in an open area! Never mix Mn2O7 with a liquid like acetone in a test tube or similar vessel. The mixture may be ejected violently or even explode! Never mix Mn2O7 with powdered metals, the mix will explode and unreacted Mn2O7 along with excess acid will spray in all directions! Alternatively, the process can be reversed: Mix KMnO4 with an organic compound and add a few drops of conc. sulfuric acid to light it.

[fightclub]

Manganese (VII) heptoxide is interesting compound because it explodes on contact with simple oxidizable materials like cotton, paper, cement, cardboard, etc, especially compounds like benzene, carbon disulfide, alcohols, ethers, flammable gases, petroleum or other organic substances give very violent interaction(it also reacts with inorganics like sulfur). Depending how much excess acid there is less violent reaction will be.

It has about the same shock-sensitivty as Hg(CNO)2. The down side as a primary, is its high reactivity and instability: it is stable at -5°C and around 0°C this compound decomposes giving off oxygen and some ozone, leaving behind MnO2. It decomposes as follows: 2 Mn2O7 --> 4 MnO2 + 3 O2
Mn2O7 decomposes to MnO2, and ozone at 40-55° C and Explodes at 95°C, reaction with water is also very violent, unless small drops are added to large amounts of water.

Ammonium permanganate:

You might want too stay away from this compound or use extremely small quantities
because it might explode without warning. Dry NH4MnO4 is friction-sensitive and explodes at 60°C in air. According to Urbanski (Vol.2):

It has good explosive characteristics, but is not stable. After 1-2 days it visibly starts decomposing and changing appearance, after several days it loses every week its explosive properties:

2 NH4MnO4 --> NH4NO3 + 2 H2O + Mn2O3 [the heat of this reaction is maybe about 490 cal/g, it is not immediate but gradual]

The temperature of explosion varies from 110 to 130°C. The explosive decomposition of NH4MnO4 is:

NH4MnO4 --> MnO2 + 2 H2O + 0.5 N2 + 565 cal/g

NH4MnO4 detonates at a velocity of 1700m/s at a density of 1.0 and has a lead block expansion of 110-125 cm^3

It hasn't found much signifcant use. In 1906 an explosion occured in a German factory at Wittenu (Roburit Fabrik), here a mixture of 0.5% of potassium permanganate with an ammonium nitrate explosive caused an explosion 7 hours later. This was owing to formation and exothermic decomposition of ammonium permanganate, which lead to ignition.

[This message has been edited by fightclub (edited August 12, 2001).]

[Mr Cool]

I'm still wondering about the lead glycerolate. Would it work to add lead hydroxide to glyceryl dichloride? This brings me to my next question: could glyceryl dichloride be made by reacting glycerol with HCl?

[PHILOU Zrealone]

Lead glycerolate can be done by boiling excess glycerol with lead hydroxyde (1/2hour)
CH2OH-CHOH-CH2OH + Pb(OH)2 --> CH2OH-CH(O-)-CHO-Pb + 2 H2O
Filtrate the white precipitate (Pb(OH)2 is also white so it appaers nothing has happened but stil) wash with water several times and allow to dry at 40-60C.
The dry compound deflagrates when heated confined.

BTW.From a previous post you can see that KMnO4 is a good sensitiser of NH4NO3 but it has to be used fast! Never store this!

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"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"

[the freshmaker]

Hey PHILOU- Is it just me or have you been away from the forum?- I'm glad your back!

I can't figure out why KMnO4 will sensitise NH4NO3. I have heard that KMnO4 also will sensitise KClO3? How sensitive will this mix of NH4NO3/KMnO4 and do you have any info about the properties of this mix? -Thanks

[Fallout85]

Philou- Do you have any information on Ammonium nitrite, chlorite, or both? I assume they can be made by reacting Ammonium sulfate with either Potassium or Sodium nitrite or chlorite, correct?

[Mr Cool]

Using calcium nitrite or chlorite would surely be better, because the CaSO4 would precipitate...

[Berserker]

Would metallic (like Hg and Ag) salts of (di/trichloro) isocyanuric acid, a common pool chlorinator, be explosive?

[PHILOU Zrealone]

Yes I'm in exam session so I don't have much time to come here arround (I try once a week) but soon this will be solved since I will have Internetacces at home!

NH4ClO2 is really dangerous to do even more than NH4ClO3 but the cross reaction of Ca(ClO2) + NH4Cl or (NH4)2CO3 or (NH4)2SO4 can produce it in solution (isolation is done under vaccuum drying)! If I where you I would mix dry NaClO2 (used to bleach clothes in industrial processes) with dry (NH4)2SO4 in very little quantity and heat the TINY amount over a flamme(this process is often used in explosives (NaNO3 + NH4Cl when a detonation wave travels through this it is like it was NH4NO3 and NaCl) Here the idea is the same with (NH4)2SO4 and NaClO2!

NH4NO2 is not a friendly substance too really unstable too! Mix dry NH4Cl and NaNO2 extremely dry and finely powdered! Apply a match on the TINY amount of mix!

Siver tartrate and oxalate are really easy to do:
dissolve AgNO3 in distillated water, dissolve tartric acid or oxalic acid in distillated water; mix the two and filtrate the white precipitate!Wash with distillated water and dry...explode from heat especially when confined!The solubility constant of those salt are so low that even the nitric acid (stronger than oxalic and tartric doesn't prevent the reaction from appening)
oxalate of silver:
2AgNO3 + (HOOC)2--> (AgOOC)2 + 2HNO3
AgOOC-COOAg -heat-> 2Ag + 2CO2




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"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"

[Winston Bailey]

Earlier in this thread it was mentioned that a possible explosive might be synthensized from H2O2 and Cu. This got me thinking a little bit.

So far I have searched for a few hours and found some interesting reading material but nothing usefull as far as precurser chemicals and synthensis goes. I have read a few about synthensis, but at the moment I dont posses these chemicals and would like to make something from what I do have at the moment. I am not very well equipped as far as chemistry goes, otherwise I dont think I would be posting this.;)

CHEERS and THANKS