Dummy body parts

[Shalashaska]

I'm planning on conducting some experiments using models of hands and heads to demonstrate the power of some different explosives on body parts. Problem is I'm not very creative with this type of thing and the only substance I can think of is some kind of plaster. Does anyone know of anything more accurate to the strength of a human hand or head?

My aim is to put this online to show inexperienced people that plan to make this stuff what it can do to their hands and body.

Note: I (duh!) was also planning on putting a karo syrup/red food coloring mix in a balloon inside of the mold, for added effect :D

[festergrump]

Truthfully, in the forensic world they sometimes use pig carcasses to simulate the human body. They do this when studying decomposition speeds relative to temperature and humidity, ect., as well as ballistic wounds, IIRC.

Pig carcasses could easily be replaced by just about any other you have on hand or could "acquire" fresh enough, though. I think everyone would easily get the point...

Nobody need know how you came upon such a test carcass, but if you feel the need for a disclaimer... it's simply "fresh roadkill" you didn't want to go to waste. Instead of rotting on the ground you gave it new life in the form of educating the masses... ;)

[Killian]

Ballastic gelatin with possible plaster framing inside acting as 'bones' seems like a decent possibility. I think it'd be quite realistic.

I have not a clue about adding 'blood' and such, unfortunately. I'd think your balloon idea wouldn't be at all genuinely realistic. I'm sure someone will respond with a great idea for that though(+ probably a better idea than mine in regards to the body!) :p

[Shalashaska]

Well, being a religious Mythbusters fan, Ballistics gel was the first thing that popped into my head. But I was going for a more DIY kind of job. Plus, you ever see the prices for good Ballistics gel?..... crazy.

And festergrump, the notion of a pig actually did cross my mind, but I got rid of it when I got to the question, "Where in God's name am I going to get a pig hide...."

[festergrump]

If the idea of using an animal carcass isn't sufficient, try using plaster and newspaper strips (much like paper mache) around a head sized melon (small watermelon? Cantelope?) to simulate a human head.

The 'cranium' of paper reinforced plaster should be about equivalent to bone as well as the melon/brain-matter insides.

No further ideas how to simulate the hand, though, other than perhaps a discarded manequin hand. Maybe not the whole manequin but a ring display? I've every so often seen whole manequins for sale cheap at garage sales and flea markets, alike...

[EDIT: Here you go... How about poking small rib bones through cooked sausage links? I know it sounds stupid, but wouldn't that be just about right for blowing it up and measuring the effect? I'm not being facetious, really. Stretch a latex glove over the digits and pack the palm in with maybe ground beef? It's not too far off from the real thing.]

[Shalashaska]

Wow, thanks for the quick correspondence :D

Anyways, thanks for the paper mache idea, I'll probably use that for my head.

I really wanted to do the hand though, since a lot of amateurs tend to have explosives go off in their hands much more often than strapped to their head :p

Anyone know of any easily made substance similar to ballistics gelatin? Besides, of course, Jell-O. Though, that may have to work. :D

Edit: After thinking about it more today, I think candle wax would be a pretty good idea...

[Match]

I don't mean to make a kewl unknowledgable post, but can't you readily create your own balistics gelatin via recipe on the forum?

[Shalashaska]

Not that I know of. I searched The Forum before asking and what I got was a thread of a guy that ordered ballistics gel.

[InfernoMDM]

You need to look a little harder, heres a link and I believe they may have another thread in the archives.

http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?t=6133&highlight=ballistics+gel

[Shalashaska]

Okay, so after thinking about it, I'm going to make a plaster mold of a hand and use some kind of wax for the model hand. I'll probably still fill it with the fake blood, just because that's one of the main things I want to see :D

[paul88]

How about this. Get ahold of a head sized object (slightly smaller)
Pour some plaster over it about the thickness of the human skull.
Next try and get ahold of a latex like a halloween mask and place it over the plaster as its skin (apply adhesive so it will stick)
make a brain matter related substance and drill a hole in the top of the head or pour directly in the bottom and seal the hole.
You can either blow a balloon up to pour the plaster on or get a foam fake head (like the ones used for wigs) and you can burn the foam out of the mold or simply pop the balloon.
Hope it helps

[Torvaun]

I've got a 'recipe' for a sort of homemade ballistics gel. Start with a bunch of raw meat. Chop it fairly finely, put it in a pot full of water, and start to boil it, stirring occasionally. Continue adding water as it boils away. After about an hour and a half, remove it from heat, and allow it to set. You get an ugly mass of this meat goo, looks slightly less edible than SPAM. Not as clear as ballistics gel, so it's hard to get measurements from bullets and stuff unless you poke something into the hole behind it. Haven't tried it with explosives.

Fill a plaster skull with it, and enjoy.

[anonymous411]

Why not carve a pork roast into the shape of a hand, inject with blood, stitch up a layer of fat and pigskin around it, and adorn with press-on nails. Voila! Disgusting.

[LibertyOrDeath]

Ballastic gelatin with possible plaster framing inside acting as 'bones' seems like a decent possibility. I think it'd be quite realistic.A possible refinement might be to use ceramic rods for the bones, as natural bone is essentially a porous ceramic matrix with soft tissue (e.g., collagen, blood vessels) growing within the matrix.

Hydroxyapatite (HAP), a commonly-used biomaterial and bone substitute, would likely be ideal if you really wanted to get fancy and could find a source. But even HAP would likely not mimic the mechanical properties of natural bone perfectly, as HAP is generally used as a porous material through which soft tissue can grow to promote vascularization. That soft tissue lends the HAP (and natural bone) a degree of elasticity that pure HAP would lack.

Natural bones (e.g., left over from eating fried chicken or pork ribs) are another idea, but their mechanical properties might be altered by the cooking process.

Buying raw meat with bones included, extracting the bones, and then incorporating them into ballistic gelatin might be the ideal method. But if you wanted to truly compare effects of explosions/bullets/whatever on the bony gelatin, it would be best to standardize the bones as much as possible, which would really require the use of artificial bone.

These are just ideas, and they may be overkill. It really depends on how fancy you want to get and how much accuracy you desire.

[sbovisjb1]

Use pigs corpses. They behave the same as a human under stress circumstances. Don't take my word for it. But its an idea that has been suggested and used by professionals.

[anonymous411]

sbovisjb1: You can buy suckling pigs and an entire pig's head in Chinatown markets.

[bigbhoy]

A pig would obviously be the most realistic choice as it'll be the closest thing you can get outside of actually having a human test subject. If you couldn't source one or afford the price that they wanted. Then ballstics gel would probably be the only other choice that you could make compared to methods like paper mache etc.

Here is what looks like a cheaper alternative that you may be able to use depending on the quantities that you may need:

Homemade recipe (http://www.myscienceproject.org/gelatin.html)

[NoltaiR]

I will begin this reply saying that I truly question the intelligence (if any) of all who have posted in this thread thus far.

Having that said, if you are trying to demonstrate explosive capabilities, anything that remotely looks like a hand can be used. You can buy small mannequins at hobby lobby or just about any craft store or any outlet that caters to clothing stores.

Seriously.. this isn't rocket science and should be the very least of your worries if experimenting with explosives.

[LibertyOrDeath]

I will begin this reply saying that I truly question the intelligence (if any) of all who have posted in this thread thus far.Thanks for being courteous enough to point that out. Perhaps you can enlighten us intellectual dwarves and explain exactly what was said that you find so stupid?

Having that said, if you are trying to demonstrate explosive capabilities, anything that remotely looks like a hand can be used. You can buy small mannequins at hobby lobby or just about any craft store or any outlet that caters to clothing stores.Are you suggesting that anything that has the mere superficial appearance of a body part will have the same mechanical properties as an actual body part and will behave the same way when subjected to an explosion?

Seriously.. this isn't rocket science and should be the very least of your worries if experimenting with explosives.While a lot of discussion on explosive effects on human bodies might be overkill for what I gather are Shalashaska's simple demonstration purposes, this subject could be every bit as complicated as rocket science if one wanted to carry it far enough.

Think of all the variables involved in research on terminal wounding effects of bullets: it's a subject complex enough that people have devoted professional careers to it. The study of terminal effects of explosives would be FAR MORE complex. Now you have to take into account such variables as standoff distance; the explosive used, including amount and detonation properties such as brisance; intervening barriers, if any; shrapnel effects, if any; and so on.

If anything, I'd say that such studies might best be neglected not because of their simplicity, but because of their intractable complexity for the amateur researcher with his limited funds and resources.

EDIT: No sweat NoltaiR, I just wanted to point out another perspective.

[NoltaiR]

This is the first time I have had to say this, but...

I stand corrected.
You have pointed out a logical reasoning behind the need for such a product, and did so with proper grammar and spelling (which is more than I can say for some around here).

Continue on my fellow forumite.

[nbk2000]

Fake body parts would also be excellent for knife training, to simulate slicing/ripping/stabbing.

[perrymk]

If you can associate yourself with a university research group you might be able to acquire real human body parts for your experiment.

If you work in a forensic facility and can justify your needs you may find working with a university easier. If you are a student it may be possible to approach a forensic facility for an internship.

When I was a mere puppy I knew a biologist in Chicago (friend of the family) that acquired body parts from funeral homes, city morgues and hospitals. These were usually unknown or unclaimed corpses. I suspect this might be a bit more difficult today.

A little off topic but perhaps relevant. Setting off explosives is illegal in most places, as is corpse abuse. I deduce from your post that you wish to record yourself doing this and perhaps even take credit for it. Working with law enforcement might be prudent.

[teshilo]

In Vietnam war era dead body corpses used for testing various AP land mines .CIA for testing pistol bullets used sheep dressed in Soviet uniform.

[NoltaiR]

Well let's grab a shovel and find a graveyard!

[nbk2000]

In 1974, Willard Gaylin, M.D., a psychiatrist who at the time was president of the Institute of Society, Ethics and the Life Sciences in Hasting-on-Hudson, New York, wrote a chilling article for Harper's Magazine entitled "Harvesting The Dead."

In the article, Gaylin coined a new term for a new kind of cadaver that would have the legal status of one who is dead but with none of the qualities one normally associates with death. According to Gaylin, this new kind of cadaver would be called a "neomort," meaning newly dead. The "brain dead" neomort would be a warm, respirating, pulsating, evacuating, and excreting body requiring nursing, dietary, and general grooming attention.

These "living" cadavers could then be stored in "neomortoria" (units in hospitals where neomorts on life-support systems could be housed) for organ transplantation, medical and nursing education, and drug research.

Sounds like an interesting idea. I first heard of the term 'neomort' in an article in HUSTLER magazine, of all places. :o

There it was discussed about how neomort's were being used to test car-restraints in test-crashes, and motorcycle helmets for head-trauma reduction in impact tests.

I know the military has done the same thing with fresh cadaver legs for land-mine tests.

[Shalashaska]

How depressing would that be? You donate your body to science, expecting something grand like helping cure cancer or AIDS in some way, but in reality, you're just a body in a pile, waiting to be blown to pieces by a land mine :P

[nbk2000]

Which would I prefer?

I'd rather my corpse be blown up by testing a new landmine, than used to develop a cure for AIDS so fags and niggers can keep fucking.