fighting adrenaline

[209]

This is a thread that would usually be posted in the WC. However, being that it's closed:mad: this seems to be a some-what-ok place to put it.

Today I got into a fight with a guy. He was pissing me off a shit load before hand and finally I went ape on him. If you've ever been in an unexpected fight (I'm sure most of you have) You will be familiar with the adrenaline rush that comes. You don't think logically, you act purely on instinct.

Anyway, he came at me and I saw an open shot to his head and took it. I didn't hit him square though, I clipping the side of his face but came up with my right(I'm left handed, a plus when fighting) to his chin an hit him real hard. He landed up on the ground I walked away, he didnt even get a solid shot at me.

Then I realized the adrenaline pumping through my system, you know what that feels like. Even when I look back, I have a hard time remembering exactly what happend. How do you stop an adrenaline rush, or at least curb it?? I didn't command myself to swing, it just happend. You look at some of these movies and see guys doing crazy shit to beat the crap out of their opponents - watch the first assassin scene from the Borne Identity:eek: .

I would imagine that if you could divert your adrenaline rush you would be able to think logically and you would be nearly unbeatable. I have been taking Krav Maga for nearly two years now, but you could know every move in the world and it wouldn't mean anything if you couldn't control the adrenaline. I know there are "adrenaline junkies" But I want to figure out how to stop the rush - any ideas?

[Defendu]

I would imagine that if you could divert your adrenaline rush you would be able to think logically and you would be nearly unbeatable. I have been taking Krav Maga for nearly two years now, but you could know every move in the world and it wouldn't mean anything if you couldn't control the adrenaline. I know there are "adrenaline junkies" But I want to figure out how to stop the rush - any ideas?

Stop the rush and you'll drop like a sack of shit the first time you get hit. Adrenaline is there for good reason, it makes you faster and less susceptible to pain, it's a survival mecanism that's not compatible with martial arts bullshit.

Instead iof trying to counteract adrenaline, learn fighting methods that work in an adrenaline rush, stuff so simple it works even in a Berzerker like rage. Then train it until it's reflexive, like these guys:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7TwjgFzF6Q

PS: Drop the Krav and just learn to attack with frenzied strikes and gouging attacks, if the krav is not working for you.

[nbk2000]

The L.A. Bankrobbers were using barbituates to keep their calm. Look what they did in such a calm state. :D

Valium or (for you health nuts) Valerian would do the same thing.

[Guerilla]

Actually, Defendu, most Krav Maga techniques are essentially designed to be applicable in adrenaline rush, ie. tunnel vision, lack of fine-motor coordination and other such stress reactions are always taken into account. As for the real question, you can't quite ever simulate real combat and get used to the effects, nor like said, would it be wise to try to artificially disable them altogether. Though your physical shape will have an influence on the degree at which they take place.

Better just try to reduce the effects indirectly by keeping on practicing and get some movements and routines deep into the muscle memory. You will then have a great advantage over people that aren't familiar with their stress reactions.

It's hard business, especially if there are for example knives involved, it takes quite a long for one to learn defend himself against simple knife attacks somewhat reliably even in training conditions not to mention in the chaos involved with live situations. It will soon become clear who still got guts, literally. Humbleness and ruthlessness pay I guess.

[tmp]

I won't try to suppress mine although it has landed me in trouble with law on
occasion. Just beat the shit out the motherfucker any way you can. My
temper has been pretty bad lately. An irritating room mate, soon to head
back to jail because he's a fuckup, causes my temper to flare up on almost a
daily basis. The same can be said for some of the idiots I work with. My
doctor is worried about my stress level. I'm reminded of saying when it comes
to the definition of stress:

Stress: That confusion created when the mind overrides the body's basic
desire to choke the living shit out of some asshole who desperately needs it !

That sums it up pretty well. :D

BTW, my room mate did 90 days in jail on his last charge. He has a backup
time of 9 months which he's asking for. He refuses to see his PO and has violated every condition of his probation. A hardcore drunk and drunk driver,
he snubs his nose at the system. When they throw his liberal ass back in the
joint I'm sure his smart mouth and shitty attitude will change when he goes
through his "bitchification" process. Serves the motherfucker right ! The
courts are tired of seeing his face and tired of his attitude !

[James]

I think I vaugely recall that there are two types of stress disstress and eustress. Distress is the typical bad stress. Whereas eustress is when you take advantage of it and do *something*. see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eustress

[tmp]

It must be distress for me. The aggravation never seems to end between
work and home. I'm responding from a computer at work and already the
stress level is elevated. I'm tense and there's nothing I would like more than
to beat these motherfuckers within an inch of their life ! :mad: :mad: :mad:
Already, one of my coworkers had to be hospitalized Thursday. Like me, he's
overworked and tired. Upper management doesn't punish these slackers
because we're damn near a skeleton crew now so the motherfuckers get
away with the shit. For over 9 months I was working 7 days a week because
of these assholes ! The adrenaline surge is due to pure RAGE ! Right now,
my health is suffering as a result. If I did what I wanted to these assholes,
I'd end up in prison.

As I said before, I get no relief at home. The last 2 nights I screamed at the
asshole. That jerk wouldn't last 2 minues on this board.

Some people, including my own family, suggest I go see a psychiatrist.
BULLSHIT ! That accomplishes nothing ! If it wasn't for the law, I'd get more
done in a day with baseball bat than a shrink with their shit in a century !

Sorry for the rant but my nerves are shot. At least the courts will punish the
asshole at home.

[nbk2000]

It's best not to make such rants from work as it could be recalled from the system logs and used as a pretext to fire you.

[TreverSlyFox]

One thing both the LEO and Military community have learned, is that when the Shit Hits the Fan and the adrenaline starts flowing your fine motor skills go out the window and you revert to instinct. luckily repetitive training overrides instinct and develops "muscle memory", which is why that street cop can still hit the thumb break on his holster and draw his weapon and still hit something with his heart racing at 100 mph most times.

If you've trained enough that's what you'll revert to when the Shit Hits the Fan. There have been times that I don't even remember drawing my weapon, it was just there in my hand when I needed it. Of course it took spending time at the range and shooting 200 rounds every weekend to get there. I imagine I'm rusty now that I'm retired but I bet the body remembers and that's what I'd do again if it came to that again.

[knowledgehungry]

I have been in a fight where the adrenaline didn't kick in with pretty bad results.

I really wasn't scared of my opponent or mad at him, what I didn't know before the fight was that, while he was a scrawny punk, he also was a boxer. I, while larger and stronger than him was a smoker at the time and slighly overweight back then. I wasn't angry with him either, it was one of those fights where you're pissed off and say lets take this outside, then by the time you get outside you don't really care anymore.

To make a long story short I decided I would just try to win this fight standing up no big deal, he being in better shape than me outlasted me in the boxing match, although I did get some good shots in. By the time I realized I was going to have to overpower him rather than box him I was too tired. I rushed him got him down, hit him once or twice than he flipped me got on top and proceeded to batter my face. We actually bolth ended up equally battered, as my hits had some more damage, but to all onlookers it was obvious I lost.

If my adrenaline had been pumping in that fight I would have kicked at the legs, then thrown a hard punch at the face than rushed him and taken it from there. That is how I normally fight someone who is weaker than me by instinct. If I would have fought that way he would have been done.

Adrenaline is a good thing in UNARMED fighting, in armed fighting it can be more of a problem as your bodies instincts were not developed with fine motor control or precise use of weapons in mind.

[Alexires]

Having been in a few fights in my life (none of them life and death, but stressful none the less) I have found that it is the waiting that is the worst.

Where someone is in your face and you don't know if they are all talk, or if its the prelude to you breaking them in two. The one time where I have been in a kind gang fight I was absolutely calm. I knew that I could smash almost anyone I meet and that if the fight was going to happen, it would. If it didn't, then that didn't matter either.

Breathing really helps with the adrenaline. As I understand it, think of it this way. When you get an adrenaline dump, your heart rate increases and your breathing becomes short and shallow. This doesn't effect the rate at which the oxygen comes in, but since your heart is beating faster then it makes it more difficult to think. If you slow down your breathing you

1) don't hit that brick wall that comes at about the 3-5min mark of full combat
2) increases the level of oxygen in your blood, making you faster and easier to think.

Instead of just panting, try breathing slowly, try breathing in a 5/3 style (5 counts in, 3 counts out). Work out whats best for you. It is difficult to simulate the adrenaline rush of a fight, but put yourself in those situations. Do heavy sparring with your mates. After the first time you get hit, you will need to clamp down on the adrenaline and rage.

Training really matters. I one kicked a mate across the hallway before I even realized I had acted. One second he was coming at me (he had anger problems) the next he was lying on the ground a few meters away and I was fairly calm thinking "what the fuck?".

There is no point in training if you don't get to apply it. Contact sparring is important. For out $100 for a pair of gloves and some shin guards and go at each other reasonably hard. You will learn how to deal with being tired as fuck and having to keep going and also the adrenaline.

I know a lot of the forum members look down on the kind of samurai/ninja thing, but I like to try and act as a warrior would. I don't mean honor and all the other Christian overlaid bullshit but living each moment as if it were my last one on earth, hence any moment after doesn't matter.

Some might frown upon this but I think these two texts sum up what I ultimately want to live my life like...

Here (http://www.judoinfo.com/warrior.htm)
and here is the other text.

In order to become a man of knowledge, one must be a warrior, not a whimpering child. One must strive without giving up, without complaint, without flinching.

One learns to act like a warrior by acting, not talking.

To be a warrior, a man has to be, first of all (and rightfully so) keenly aware of his own death. But to be concerned with death would force any of us to focus on the self, and that would be debilitating. So the next thing one needs, to be a warrior, is detachment. The idea of imminent death, instead of becoming an obsession, becomes an indifference.

Only the idea of death makes a man sufficiently detached so he is incapable of abandoning himself to anything. Only the idea of death makes a man sufficiently detached so he can't deny himself anything. He knows his death is stalking him and won't give him time to cling to anything, so he tries, without craving, all of everything.

A detached man has only one thing to back himself with - the power of his decision. He has to be the master of his choices. He must fully understand that his choice is his responsibility, and, once he makes it there is no longer time for regrets of recriminations. His decisions ares final, simply because his death does not permit him time to cling to anything.

A warrior does not abandon himself to anything, not even to his death. A warrior is not a willing partner; a warrior is not available, and if he involves himself with something, you can be sure that he is aware of what he is doing. For a warrior, there is nothing out of control. Life, for a warrior, is an exercise in strategy.

The spirit of a warrior is not geared to indulging or complaining, nor is it geared toward winning or losing. The spirit of a warrior is geared only to struggle, and every struggle is a warriors last battle on earth. Thus the outcome matters very little to him. In his last battle on earth, a warrior lets his spirit flow free and clear. And as he wages his battle knowing that he will be impeccable, a warrior laughs and laughs. - Dr Murdock

[Jacks Complete]

The warrior quote above is nice. It is, however, impractical for the majority of life. Even espousing that philosphy could see you detained indefinately in the UK.

However, when the SHTF, you, as a well prepared member of society, should already know what is about to happen. You will be in control of the situation, and leaving, or you will be caught up too centrally, and taken along with it.

If you lose the control of the situation, you must keep control of yourself.

Adrenaline is a hell of a shock to the system. People get addicted to it, the suddeness of the rush, the raw roar of blood in the ears... then you hit them with a hook to the jaw that they, in a tight focused tunnel-vision state, will never see unless they turn their head. Then you finish them with an uppercut that goes behind their defenses, again, well out of the view of the adrenaline rush.

You then step back, and assess the situation again. That might be to check for witnesses, and then step in with a kick to the head so he doesn't get up, or it might be to use your toes to just below his solar plexus, ensuring he doesn't get up for a few minutes.

To beat the "bum rush" attacks, go do some contact Aikido. Very handy. Do contact sparring, preferably the nasty kind of multiple attack you get in real life. Just the few basics you will recall under duress and stress will be better than nothing.

If your oppo seems to have a clue, leave. It's not worth finding out they are better than you! (And if it is, come back armed)

[Alexires]

True Jacks Complete, I understand its futility of such a thing, but still, it gives a certain grasp on life.

When you are in combat, there is no time for cognitive planning. Any planning that you do is ingrained; you know what to look for, you know how to think, act and react.

You should act as if every action will be your last.

*laugh* most of my training is so ingrained that I have DREAMS about using it on people. Actually, I had this one the other day where I was using it on children (think 15 year old kewls). It left a rather satisfying taste in my mouth for some reason.

There is really only one decision you need to make in a fight. The decision is to fight or not to fight. If you decide not to, get away from the situation (if you can). If you can't then you need to fight, so stop fucking around and get the first hit in. A real fight is life and death. If you lose, you may (probably) die.

Act like it.

Use everything you have. Elbows, knees, teeth, nails forehead. It doesn't matter. Go for the things in the centreline (nose, mouth, throat, solar plexus, stomach, testicles).

Knowing what you are going to do certainly helps to calm the adrenaline. Once you are in action, adrenaline doesn't bother you that much.

If you think too much, you lock up and get the shit kicked out of you.

[Charles Owlen Picket]

I feel compelled to reply to this thread in a strange way, with the understanding that my observations and the post itself may be deleted. I really AM an adrenaline junky. I don't think I have ever admitted it and it almost sound like I am in a confessional. I am starting to smile at myself while I write this as well. :)

I have chosen a profession that demands that I get up for the interaction demanded of me. I engage in activities that also produce the adrenal response. If I cannot participate in something that stimulates the adrenal response - after a few days I find I become quite depressed. :(

Personally I don't think that whether one should or should not attempt to "control" the adrenal response is the heart of the issue. As each situation is so vastly different, no one answer seems appropriate. If a task involves the demand for fine motor control (flying an aircraft) it would behoove that person to attempt control. Whereas if the task involved defending oneself, manual dexterity may not be affected to a greater extent.

The concept of "muscle memory" used to make me sort of laugh as muscles don't remember a damn thing, the brain does. And if that brain is not engaged often enough to be familiar with the tunnel vision, the difficulty with fine motor skills, the pounding heart rate, the shakes, and the sick feeling in one's gut....well all the "training" in the world is just entertainment, it seems. I want it understood that I am not putting anyone down here, it's just that the over-riding parameter for action is the brain engaging. It may be blinding fast but the brain is still in control. That is human design. The act of professional boxing is an excellent example. In the beginning, the tunnel vision is obvious as the majority of shots seem to be basic ones. As the bout wears on the contestants get used to the phenomenon and the technique becomes more deciding.

I have seen over and over again the effects of adrenaline help and hinder. To address the original question of if the adrenal response alters logical thinking I would have to say absolutely not. Getting "up" for whatever has not affected my cognitive or intellectual abilities.

I honestly believe that many people DON'T enjoy the "rush" and that's the logical reason that they try to alter the response. But looking back, if that adrenaline was not available to me I would have been dead a Hell of a long time back. It's just that somehow I got to like it.

I suppose that (being gut-level honest) I believe it saves my life and is somehow a familiar "friend". I would hate to NOT have that response to a given stress stimulus

[Isotoxin]

I believe the best way to get used to adrenaline is to fight. Sparring is not enough. So train up in boxing or BJJ or whatever and enter into a fighting contest in your area. This also gives you something to use in argument against the whing chunners and ninjas.

bullshido.net is a helpful place for combat sports

[Pb_Producer]

I agree, the best way to get control over your adrenaline would be to just keep practicing getting that rush over and over again.

I’m not a hardcore fighter but I have lots of experience with adrenaline and how to control it, as I’m almost a pro freestyle skier (the ones you see getting 20ft out of the half pipe). When I’m finished a competition I get the greatest rush ever, and feel as though I’m invincible and don’t feel any pain (I’ve had some large bails too). But since I’ve experienced it so many times I realize when I have it and can slow it down at will, although I don’t because it’s pretty awesome.

[BaronVonSchtupp]

I also too remember a fight I had, story short, he quick punches me...and hits me, instantaneously after that, I barely remember what happened aka instant surge of adrenaline from the stock in the adrenal glands. rofl, we each took swings, he hit me in the face like 3 times, but I was like. wtf....it doesnt hurt, to myself... I remember no pain, and first part of the fight when he pulls a quicky on me out of no where, for like 10 seconds I have no clue what happened...

I also think the adrenaline saved me from getting knocked out...towards the end I had him in a head lock... and we were separated.. and I split ....next morning I had a minor black eye, nothing major..almost unnoticeable, and a crunching nose....bitch hit me straight in the nose, it didn't break though. But it definitely would be awesome to be able to control your adrenaline....I think it starts with staying calm at all times. You will still get that surge...just not enough to cause you to go into an analgesic state, (not remembering what happened later).

[Killian]

One reply pointed to breathing. From a decent amount of experience I've learned the slow 5/3 breathing technic alone can be counter-productive. I personally use the 'breathe deep through the nose+exhale through the mouth' technic. Although, could make you passout if used rapidly. So, I personally practice(+recommend) using this technic in controlled spacing.

My opinion is: adrenaline is natural and should never be CONTROLLED, but slightly curbed. It's a blessing in the cut-throat situations. It's like riding a bike. Everything becomes second nature once you become comfortable and experience it enough. I feel like I could elaborate, but I'm questioning the value of my insight.

[dooda]

You should not try to get rid of the adrenaline rush because you are in survival mode and it has saved from being knocked out about three times in my life.

[anonymous411]

How do you stop an adrenaline rush, or at least curb it??

Ideally, if you cold take 20 mg of propranolol (or some other beta-adrenergic blocker) an hour before the crisis, you literally couldn't feel the effects of adrenaline if you tried. The DoD has been sponsoring research on medicines that turn normal people into cold-blooded psychopaths, and beta-adrenergic blockers are quite promising. PubMed will point you to some fascinating unclassified studies.

Just as repetition is the key to brainwashing, so it is with self-defense. Train yourself until your actions become instinctual and you'll never go wrong.

TMP: nevermind the shrink; you need some adrenal support. Prolonged adrenal stress depletes your B vitamins like no other: once that happens, your dopamine/serotonin balance starts to go to hell and you see insults everywhere and get REAL aggressive real fast. Without B3 your body can't make serotonin at all...If the corners of your lips have started to crack, that's the number one sign adrenal stress and B deficiency is taking its toll. Trust me as someone who's been there; it wasn't pretty.

I'd recommend 100mg B3 niacin (nicotinic acid, not that "flush free" shit) three times a day, and the most potent B complex you can find, twice a day. It will help you get your mind together faster than any psychologist could ever dream of. Ditch all alcohol and pills for awhile too--they only make things worse.

Whatever you do, remember: we're all just one bad decision away from rotting in jail with a violent felony-- and it's a rare, rare motherfucker that's worth sacrificing your freedom, the most precious thing on earth. Good luck!

[nbk2000]

The L.A. Bank Robbers were using barbiturates to suppress anxiety during their crimes, and look how well it worked for them. :)

I've found that valerian is useful for daily stress reduction, and large amounts give you that 'God of War' calm.

[Killian]

Valerian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerian_(herb)) seems incredibly useful.

Few adverse events attributable to valerian have been reported. Large doses or chronic use may result in stomach ache, apathy, and a feeling of mental dullness or mild depression.

[liederhousen]

The interesting thing about beta blockers (a prescription drug) is the how easy it can be to find.

Beta blockers are commonly used by people in high stress situations such as job interviews and driving licence tests (I have used it myself) as a quite safe way to block the effects of adreneline which can lead to divided attention, unprofessional appearance, and mistakes.

The above mentioned fact makes pharmacists more willing to sell small quantity's without a prescription and/or doctors to write prescriptions for these uses. Just explain your use eg. going for a interview/test.

Added bonuses are that generic beta blockers are very cheap and beta blockers have no effect on the brain (only physically blocks adrenaline).

But I agree adrenaline is there to help you in a fight or flight situation blocking it in a fight can have bad consequences.