Peroxide stabilizers

[mr.evil]

Hey,
i was wondering, is there a possibility to add something to the peroxides, to make it less sensitive, but keeping the primairy aspects(explodes if contact with flame etc.)

I was dreaming to make some plastic explosives with AP/HMTD. Maybe liquid paraffine will work.. anyone?

(sorry for my shitty english)

[vulture]

Phosphate salts are often used to stabilize peroxides. However, if AP or HTMD are acid sensitive, this method should NOT be used!!

If you make plastic explosives with them, they'll probably be less shock sensitive.

If you have peroxides (not only AP or HMTD but also old (diethyl)ether) you need to get rid of without detonation you can use
iron(II) salts solution, H2SO3 solution, Na metal, triphenylphosphin or by adsorption on Al2O3.

[xoo1246]

If you mix it with something non explosive, maybe you could make it less sensitive to chock. But you would lose perfomance from the allready low VoD. It's a primary, and a primary is a primary, why would you want an explosive sensitive to flame. There would be several drawbacks, and the only possitive thing would be that you could stick a fuse into it without using a b.c.. Let me guess it's beacause you find it easy to make AP/HTMD, am I right?, and you could use small amounts of it. There are several plastic explosives that are easy to make, have a higher VoD and are much safer. But you probably knew this, right?
My humble oppinion, nothing to care about.

[DBSP]

I agree with Xoo If you want to make a plastic explosive there are far better choises than AP/HMTD. For instance ANNM plastique - a baby could make it, the only drawback is the price of NM but it's still quite cheap I would make a 1/2 kilo for about 2,5$. And that is 1/2 a kilo good plastique.
And it's sensitive enaugh to be cap sensitive, 2g HMTD isn't to hard to transport safely.

[Kalium]

To stabilize HMTD and TACP (AP) you can wash it by water with 3% sodium carbonate or hydrocarbonate. DO NOT use HTMD or TACP to make an plastic explosives!

[DBSP]

Washing it with Na2CO3 stabilizes it in the way that it doesn't decompose as fast as with out washing. But it does however not desensitize it the way this thread is discussing. I don't think there are many AP-makers that doesn't wash their AP with Na2CO3.

[Madog555]

a guy made a plasic explosive from HMTD a long time ago and he said it worked great. it was something like

90% HMTD and 10% heavy mineral oil

AP isn't powerful enough for plasiques. if u cant get mineral oil try weel bearing grease. but be careful, HMTD is sensitive to impureities.

[mongo blongo]

Try cooking oil. You can get a higer density. I tried this with Lead Azide. (look in the Lead Azide thread).

[Kalium]

I mean, that Na2CO3 shouldn't be washed out. It will stabilize HMTD. Yeah, it isn't very effective method.

[kingspaz]

if the guy who made it was me then it wasn't a successful primary. it was a successful incendary though and may have been detonable with another primary. it wasn't really platique but more a damp crumble....
oh, for the members who don't remember i used HMTD dampened with liquid paraffin until it stuck together. i proceeded to light it and found it needed a naked flame, not glowing embers on the end of wood which had just been snuffed out.
upon ignition it burned fiercly. i lit an amount about the size of 2 peas and it burnt for around 6 seconds and i felt the heat about 50cm away. has possibilities...

[xoo1246]

Ah, why didn't I/we think of that :rolleyes: . The other substance stops the HTMD/AP from doing the deflagration to detonation process taking too much energy, how pitty. :p
Every day you learn something new.

<small>[ March 11, 2002, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: xoo1246 ]</small>

[Yikes]

Hydrogen peroxide is usually stabilized with acetanilide. That might work with organic peroxides too.

[NoltaiR]

Likewise I have never heard of a primary being used to make a plastique composition of any sort, but if you did, liquid parafin would be the first that comes to mind. And kingspaz, you actually to the risk of igniting HTMD of any form with a naked flame?? How close were you to this? I would say the reason that it didn't make the transition to detonation was the fact that the parafin was melting far too quickly to be considered any kind of confinement. Because I know that igniting unconfined AP with a bareflame is just begging to get every hair on you burnt.

As previously stated, ANNM works as a far better composition and the synthesis for it is almost as easy as making AP.. the only problem is attaining NM, but anybody that can get a hold of 30% H2O2 needed for AP has bound to be able to get the NM required for ANNM plastique.

The only thing that I can say that comes close to a primary plastique is AP putty and it works fairly well, but its probably not what your looking for.

[mark]

Well, you could make the device with damp ap and use a small cap to set it off. Nothing much past that. Its usualy best to ignore APs siren song and stick to LEs and such.

[DBSP]

I think the whole idea of a primary plastique is stupd when there are so many others that are far better.

[mr.evil]

Hey,
well..i've tried the HMTD/Oil idea of madogg, for test, i made an 3gr. charge, tested it on sensitivity etc. not very good anyway.. later i made an 30gr. charge, it was nice. but it wasn't really a primary anymore, i detonated it with some AP(about 0.8grams) result; a loud bang and some smoke..
anyway, the charge was pressed into an PVC pipe(about 3cm dia/10cm. l0long) and was set off under ground, result: an crater of about 40cm dia.

it was fun to do this, but not very usefull... i will try some PETN to make Plastic explosives...

thanks everyone for his help.

<small>[ March 12, 2002, 09:13 AM: Message edited by: mr.evil ]</small>

[kingspaz]

noltair, whats wrong with a naked flame if its on the end of a 2m stick?! i wasn;t expecting it to detonate in such small amounts. but i was expecting the ffwwwwooosshhh you usually get. i beleive it has potential for igniting thermite or small inendary devices.
the reason it doesn't detonate is because it is 'wet' with paraffin. this creates a barrier to the acceleration of the flame front before detonation. if the flame front is slowed right down then deflagration to detonation will not occur.

[xoo1246]

Hmm, even if it wasn't mixed with paraffin it wouldn't have detonated if it was the size of a pea. Try common B.P. with some aluminium to ignite thermite.

[vulture]

If you would have added potassiumchlorate/permanganate to the parrafin, the transition maybe could have taken place.
How about mixing it with explosive gel like SC/vaselin or something?

[NoltaiR]

Now this is an interesting idea.. the SC/vaseline would still be a filler and your primary (assuming you used enough) could be pressed into it to make it more sensitive. This however leads me to say, take a look at the 'chlorate plasqique' section.. and yes I know it is misspelled..hahaha :p I would also think that the edition of either KClO3 or KClO4 along with either a permanganate or my preference Al would make it have better performance.

[RTC]

Sorry 'bout the spelling, but it was 4am'ish when I wrote it! :p

[Zambosan]

Just about anything would make a peroxide more stable.

<small>[ July 18, 2002, 01:42 AM: Message edited by: Zambosan ]</small>

[DBSP]

I must say this.. what's the idea of making a plastique if you're confining it anyway?? :confused: The hole idea of a plastique is that you supposed to be able to use it without confinement, EX:(maby a bad example but still..)
you want to cut a coupple of pipes in a place where it's hard to get a pipe etc. Just mould the plastique into place insert cap and detonate.
That's the hole idea ofa plastique...at leat that's what I think..

[Zambosan]

Got me... don't have any use for either, just curious.

<small>[ July 18, 2002, 01:43 AM: Message edited by: Zambosan ]</small>