Your Explosives Safety Precautions

[Rbick]

Well I just had something hilarious happen to me, in a dream of course, and I needed a place to put it since the water cooler is gone. But it involves a situation that makes you wonder "How much are you willing to bend your own saftey precautions?", so this seemed like the right place.

This was seen in my dream last night:
I made a 20g ammonal charge, consisting of 90% powdered AN (I get 99% purified low density prills in bulk, its the good stuff :D) and 10% Al (600 mesh). I made a cap of 1g pressed AP (I like to over due my caps) and I plan on testing this mixture with a .308 rifle round tomorrow, assuming I can afford the ammo! Anyway, I waited until it was dark to head out to my new test ground, since I wanted to see how much of a flash the charge would produce. My new test ground is a dried up pond out in the middle of nowhere on my father's land.

I had my back pack with some duct tape, some water, and my lighter and was carrying the charge in my lift hand (Its a bit of a hike). Once close to the site, I inserted my cap. Of course I had my LED head lamp on. So I was in the middle of the field containing the pond, and I ran into a situation where I needed to break some of my normal saftey precations. I edited out the story, because although it happened, it may seem rather ridiculous to most, so I thought it would be safe to take it out.

It was pretty funny, but it made me a little nervous. Normally I wouldn't risk breaking any of my saftey precautions, unless the situation called for it. What saftey precautions do you use when headed out to your site and why? What situation would cause you to change or break those precautions? I would say nothing, until something bizarre like this happened. I figure this would be a good place to have people be warned about saftey and get some good ideas on how to handle their equipment and devices. Any situation you can think of, post it.

[Charles Owlen Picket]

Just the obvious comes to mind.....

I suppose the obvious would be separate the primary & secondary substantially in both distance and encasement. maintain conscious awareness of static, shock, and other sources of ignition or stimulus.

STOP at the site and stay quiet for some time. Determining if anyone could be anywhere remotely near; even within hearing distance. LOOK over the site and determine if any fire or other danger exists from any energy source stimulus. Continue to LISTEN for anyone during setup and then STOP once again and repeat.

I just saw this related article:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/june2007/210607Explosives.htm - serious yellow journalism but related none-the-less.

[Rbick]

Yeah the usual always applies. But for the most nerve racking part of this is making the cap. If I ever made these, I would always wear eye protection and thick gloves. I would use a pair of plyers with 16 inch handles to hold the pressing device and keep it at arms length away the entire time. If it did go off, it would hurt but at least I would get to keep my fingers and eye sight. I wouldn't use a metal cap for obvious saftey reasons. It would probably be a drinking draw or paper tubes cut to 40mm long by 7mm wide (about the size of a standard #8 cap with about 1-2g of primary) and sealed with glue. I would handle the cap as little as possible until it was time to use it.

That article was disturbing. Its too bad everyone instantly associates guns and chemicals with terrorism. Although I have to admit, he could have been a little more discrete about his activities. Detonating NG in your garage in a neighborhood? Bad idea. And what the hell did he have "devices" in a public parking lot for? Of course the media has its ways of bending the facts, especially a liberal ass like the one who wrote the article. When they say "HUGE cache of weapons and explosives" it was probably 3 hand guns, an AR-15 and a shotgun. And I doubt he had large quantities of any of those chemicals.

Whoever wrote this article obviously has not done their research.

According to reports from Colorado, police confiscated nitroglycerin, ammonium nitrate, PETN, thermite, and sodium azide, none of which are used as rocket fuels

AN is used in rocket fuel and NG is used in conjuction with NC to make other propellants. Thermite isn't illegal to have and you don't need a license(I like how they managed to tie the 9/11 attack in to that). Sodium Azide, well he's kind of SOL on that. He could say he was making airbags :D . With PETN, thats a tough one. But the obvious bias of this article pisses me off.
I'm not defending the guy who got arrested, because he was obviously a jack ass, which you'll find out if you read more into it. Still, it sucks to see events like this make it harder and harder for us responsible hobbist to do our thing.

[Tinton]

My precautions are mainly for legal purposes. Although I DO adhere to some strict safety rules(aka: common sense). One extreme precaution I take is not keeping AP longer than a day or so.

As for my legal precautions...
I usually have fireworks on hand so I can say:

"I was just lighting off fireworks, sorry officer"

I would MUCH rather have $30 of fireworks get confiscated, compared to having a chat with some lovely BATFE agents.

[mike16]

Here is another article on this: http://www.longmontfyi.com/Local-Story.asp?ID=16984

They say he had half a pound of NG:D .

Its just so sad that they can take his hobby away from him like that, imagine the value of the chemicals and glassware that the pigs stole from him.

Also, he might have been a member of this forum, so I hope he has hidden his hard drive.

[209]

Yep, I to have to aggree that the most scary part of making the charge is making the cap. I usually use AP because I find HMTD to be much more shock sensitive than AP. My main is eather TNP or AN. Yeah, I know TNP is a secondary but making AN is a pain and its a bit hard to get were I am.

When I make the caps I use spent .303 casings filled with AP, nichrome ignirer goes in and then crimped. When I do this, the casing is help in a vise. If it were to detonate, the explosion would be bad, but I would still have my fingers, eyes, and another part that is VERY important to a man:D. I still don't understand why people hold the casing in their hand while packing it, that is really stupid.

[megalomania]

The police and the media have already convicted Mr. Swerlein it seems. It is interesting to note how the police have quite thoroughly disregarded his experimentation by comparing him to higschool experimenters of the lowest caliber. He uses professional equipment instead of old kitchen utensils? Heavens forbid a scientist actually use scientific tools. Real enthusiasts would not be using garbage to do scientific experimentation, they would invest in proper scientific glassware. Better still he was not using “approved” compounds in his experiments. The purpose of experimentation is to try something new and different that no one else is doing. If nitroglycerin can make a better rocket fuel, so be it, but don’t disregard the idea because no one else uses it.

The cops are trying to characterize him as some low life terrorist just like every other bomber they come across, the low caliber highschooler I mentioned. These people traditionally will use household junk because they are not performing science, they are just mixing stuff and making recipes in the true crapbook style. Now they have a man using professional equipment with experimental materials and he won’t fit the square hole they are trying to pound his round peg into.

Put the word doctor in front of his name and corporation above his door and nobody would have an issue. How dare he try to advance science without being part of the club of scientists or corporations? We will see how effective the cops are in a few generations when there is no one left outside of prison who knows how to make the propellants for firearms. Get used to this golden age, gentlemen, because society has nowhere to go but down once the government gets through destroying science.

Having just read ten different news stories about Ronald Swerlein I have seen ten different versions of the events. Some have said he had pipe bombs, which I think might be wrong, most seem to agree there was nitroglycerin, sodium azide, and PETN. One even said there was MEKP, and continued furthur saying that's the stuff responsible for the liquid ban on airlines. The massive arsenal of weapons greater in number than what the police have now seems to be only handguns and lots of ammo.

He is guilty though. He detonated explosives in his residential neighborhood, in his lab even. That strikes me as dangerous with all of the other chemicals around, and all of that expensive labware. He even pissed off the neighbors by detonating his materials in the middle of the night. It's no wonder there were 15 calls to the cops preceding this raid. Not that anyone can prove those complaints were actually due to the actions of Swerlein, let us remember.

Strike two was keeping all of those explosives in his home. Besides the fact he didn't have an appropriate license, it is still dangerous to keep nitroglycerin around. This was Colorado, what if it froze and thawed? That's a very dangerous situation for nitroglycerin.

Strike three was him trying to break into an active crime scene. Yes, it was his home, but I assume there was crime scene tape all over the place, or there should have been. It is possible he didn't know he was in trouble. None of the articles made it clear if he had an active warrant for his arrest after his home was raided, if he bailed out and then went back to get in his home, or if he was out of town and had no idea what was going on. Maybe he was on his way home and saw all the commotion in his driveway and decided to come back a little later. He could have been ignorant of any warrants, but knew something was not right. Perhaps he didn't think slipping into his own home would be illegal.

[Shalashaska]

I think it's terribly depressing that the media, the pigs and other assorted authority figures love to slap TERRORIST all over people interested in this hobby, just so that they can LOOK like they're doing a good job, and they'll get a pat on the back for all the lives they saved from this horrible man. If the general public thinks this guy was a terrorist, that just makes the fuzz look all the better by having caught him.
It's also depressing that the authorities got to have all the fun detonating this stuff. I think that's one of the main reasons they bust people like this, so they can have their own little parties, performing controlled dets... just like when pigs bust drug dealers and kife it.

This part also interested me
No one was injured in the controlled blast.
Oh, thank God! If anyone WERE injured, they would have said Swerlein set a timer on it when he broke back into his house, and gotten him for attempted murder.

Edit:
[Sodium Azide] ...a material so dangerous that 5 grams caused an explosion that damaged a University of Colorado lab
Whoa! Good thing you threw that in there! Now I know how dangerous terrorists are, and I'm willing to put them all to death, no questions asked!

[megalomania]

I also caught that bit about the 5g of sodium azide causing a terrible explosion that destroyed Colorado, or maybe that's what they implied to say.

In another article a journalist quoted from a scientific journal that 5 oz of sodium azide is used to inflate airbags.

Let us add this up shall we: This means Swerlein had little more than 3 airbags worth of material. Do these terrified soccer moms not realize that all of their minivans and SUV's have at least one, if not two or more airbags inside of them? This means the average two car garage (with two cars) will have more explosives in them than what Swerlein had!

Oh my god, all the soccer moms are terrorists! They all have explosives just a few feet away from their CHILDREN when they are driving!!!! Those vehicles even use EXPLOSIVE liquid hydrocarbon fuels! Explosives are everywhere in every soccer moms home. I won't even begin to mention natural gas is explosive... Oh, I just did.

Wait, how can this be? Explosives are used to keep you safe and do useful work like take the brats to soccer practice and cook the hungry spawn their dinner? But that would mean explosives are tools for good, not weapons of terror...

NOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The veil of ignorance tears off like duct tape over eyebrows, it hurts.

[Shalashaska]

Honestly, I want to contact this guy, and tell him that people besides all those warped-minded, leftist, "revolutionary" youths, are behind him and his hobbies/experimentation. Of course, it doesn't look like they're going to give him internet access for a while, since that's the ONLY place he could have gotten this information. ;)

Edit: Wow, I just noticed how off topic this thread has become, and my apologies for propagating it.

Back on topic, one of my main tips for nitro-compounds is nitrile gloves. Just in case some acid splatters onto you, which it (H₂SO₄) did once when I had no gloves on. Scared the living crap out of me, and I was quick about swiping it off, and getting to the nearest sink ASAP.

[Rbick]

Thats ok Shalashaska, actually you arn't too far off topic. I think this guy came up because of his obvious lack of saftey. He stored all of this stuff in his garage and tested detonations in the same area in a heavily populated city. Seems rather silly. Hes actually the perfect example of what not to be when it comes to saftey precautions, as far as I'm concerned. Well, except for the fact he did have high quality glassware.

On a second note: I contacted the journalist who wrote the article mentioned in the first post by Charles. We talked via phone and I educated him on the chemicals this man was using and how they could definatley be used as rocket fuel components. We also spoke about home chemists and both agree that the government is putting too many restrictions on the wrong people because of "terrorism" due to ignorance and fear of chemistry. I also informed him about how much more safe most of us are and that this man does not represent the majority of the community.

The jounalist was very polite and was just trying to find the facts. He plans on writing future stories and changing his past ones to include more info to make sure that people arn't mislead into thinking negativley about chemistry (which he apologized about). Having a journalist on our side is definatley a good thing. FYI, I never mentioned RS or any personal information in my discussion with him, just educated him on the chemicals found, why the man should not be considered a "terrorist" and how many hobbyist are wrongly identified as "potential threats". Its just the lack of knowledge that lead people to fear, which is why I'm here to educate them :cool:

[Zer4tul]

Anyways, my precautions go as follows: (mostly for the cap construction/loading process)

Use of 16" or more pliers,
Cap goes into a vice
1/4" lexan blast shield is erected around cap/vice
12" straw is inserted into cap, and powder is poured down straw
fuse is inserted down straw
A piece of tissue paper is then pushed down the straw to compress everything.

This is standard for any cap produced. Also, I line the area of my backback where the cap goes with 2 sheets of the the 1/4" lexan.

The lexan blast shield/container also goes around the charge when the cap is inserted.

[plutobound]

In another thread, there was some talk about gloves and Mega indicated he used latex with concentrated acids without any problems.

I've always used latex too. They are cheap and easy to change (although I end up going through a dozen pair a day). I've never had a problem with acids, until today.

I had a 50/50 mixture of RFNA (red fuming nitric acid) and 30% fuming sulfuric (30% dissolved SO3).

The idiot lab manager jostled my elbow while looking in the hood to see what I was doing and splashed the mixture on my hands, coat, and shoes.

It ate through the gloves and started nitrating my skin within a couple of seconds.

I quick strip and wash ended with no serious injury (a few minor chemical burns to one hand and one foot); but I think this guy's car might suffer a minor catastrophe in the not too distant future.

[Zer4tul]

Here are some pictures of my b-cap loading set up.

Shot of the hole the ram stick/loading straw goes through
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x188/maul3r/07-06-07_1603.jpg
Bad quality view of the whole thing (will retake/edit soon)
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x188/maul3r/07-06-07_1601.jpg
Again, it is 1/4" lexan just screwed into a steel vise. I did some tests to see what would happen if a cap did go off in the assembly As well. The test consisted of 1 gram 50/50 flame-sensitive HMTD/AN pressed into a bic pen and fired electronically. Nothing more than a few scorch marks; all the blast seemed to be directed away from where I would normally stand when loading.

I highly recommend the use of a shield when pressing caps with HMTD or AP.

[jetz]

Did you have a pressing rod in while you did the test though? Even if the blast is directed away from you the rod may end up going though you hand which can’t be good.

Mind you all this is irrelevant if you’re using some type of press to press the cap.

[Charles Owlen Picket]

@ Zer4tul - That looks like a great and well thought out system!

On another issue; people don't realize that a deep hole in the earth is a great method to use. With enough depth; sound diminishes to a fantastic degree. You can test all sorts of things if the opening is deep enough, etc. In fact with a blanket or other large cloth and a small enough diameter, one can seal the opening and the explosion cannot be heard at all!

All that happens is the "stuffing" material will pop up and an enormous amount of gases (air, whatever) will push straight up. Thereby making almost NO noise. Certainly no noise that can be associated with anything energetic. It REALLY works well.

[Zer4tul]

Did you have a pressing rod in while you did the test though? Even if the blast is directed away from you the rod may end up going though you hand which can’t be good.

Mind you all this is irrelevant if you’re using some type of press to press the cap.

I hold the rod with my index and thumb so it would shoot out of my hand. Yeah, I thought about that one. K-Nex rod through the hand would be a hard one to explain.

[stephenb25]

Whenever I am handling primaries i make sure i hold them with my little and ring finger.
My teacher was shown by some people in the military they do it in case of an accidental detonation.This way you hopefully lose these two instead of your highly valuable thumb and index.

[Rbick]

Thats the way they are held in the military, but the military is also issued caps made by a professional manufacturer, and they use a primary that is less sensitive than what the usual home chemist makes. As we usually use peroxides like AP or HMTD, or at least I do.

I personally don't trust myself with my home made caps :o. So I just never touch them unless I'm carefully placing them in the charge right before use. I remember seeing a picture of a guy who tried holding a cap in his teeth because his hands were busy putting together the main charge. His teeth were send through his frontal lobe, and now hes eating through a tube...

[megalomania]

I recently read a presentation given by the military of a lead azide on-demand synthesis technique (google it, there are several papers). The reaction looked interesting, but they did not give any experimental details. In the presentation they said they filed for a patent, but a search of the patent database reveals no such technology that I found.

See:
http://proceedings.ndia.org/5560/Thursday/Session_V-A/Cordaro.pdf

Obviously if they are making lead azide on demand at the site they are pressing their own caps too. I bet this technology could be adapted to other primary explosives as well. From the pictures in the presentation you can see they use a plastic "static mixer" to house the reaction in a blue pig (big steel drum).

I don't suppose anyone has more details on this process, or has better luck finding the patent application?

[Alexires]

Sorry Mega, I couldn't find the patent, but found this as a possible explanation as to why:

"The team developed a safe, compact, on-demand production process [for lead azide] and the required equipment from off-the-shelf components." This was from the highlights of 06 release found here (http://www.pica.army.mil/PicatinnyPublic/highlights/archive/2006/01-25-06.asp).

It would be great to find it, but I wouldn't get my hopes up. Maybe in a few months...

[nbk2000]

Compare the devices in the picture below:
http://www.webac.com/STATMIX600.jpg

With the image extracted from the PDF, attached as OTC_Patent.

Notice the similarity?

The patent is irrelevant, as it's the device, not the process, that's important.

The two precursors for LA are metered through the 'static mixer' to emerge out the end in a ready-to-use form.

I've seen these things before, while looking at epoxy resins, and thought of their usefulness for mixing PLX as needed.