Salvia divinorum - Full project

[NoltaiR]

Ok so I was going to wait until next week to repot my new plants, but they were starting to show some signs of stress (edges of leaves browning, holes in leaves) so I did it today.

This will be a stand-alone thread because this is for the sole discussion of Salvia divinorum. Topics will include the growing, cultivation, and harvesting the plant as well as refining/extracting it's key ingredient, Salvinorin A.

These plants are of the Blosser strain. This is very important because Salvia divinorum only grows under normal care and the evolution of these plants are results of how they were grown. This project will be focused on the two plants I had shipped in last week..

***Let me know if you have problems viewing the pics***

----------------------------------------------------

Today's project was repotting the plants into a 1.5 gallon pot where they will stay for at least a year. If the Salvia does get large enough that it gets top heavy, an even larger pot may be required. Until then, this will do wonderfully. Generally keeping the humidity tent large enough is more of a problem than making room for the roots.

http://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v110/127/89/217200518/n217200518_30402729_9827.jpg

These are the two plants before repotting. If you look closely, you can see there are, in fact, two main stems. You can also see that the leaves are looking quite droopy. Hopefully in the new potting soil they will perk up a bit.

Materials that I used:
*1.5 gallon pot for planting. I use the styrofoam variety because it is very light weight, durable, and there is no problem with drilling holes in them. Note that I selected a pot WITHOUT holes predrilled. This is very important because the gravel I put in there could fall out if there was.
*5 foot of polyester rope
*2-3 foot peices of wire hanger that was straightened out
*gravel (enough to fill the pot about 1.5")... rather than buying it you can just visit a local playground and borrow some :-)
*8 quart bag of Miracle Grow "Moisture Control" soil
*5 gallon clear plastic bag for humidity tent (large enough to fit around the rim of the pot)
*rain water.. you may find something that works better though. I like that it doesn't have the salts and chlorine found in tap water, but it is naturally alkaline, and Salvia prefers a slightly acidic environment

Procedure:
1). I drilled 1/4" holes into the bottom of the pot, each spaced about 1.5" apart. Also I drilled two 1/2" holes into opposite sides of the pot so the rope can fit through easily. The holes on the side of the pot should be high enough to be above the gravel layer.

http://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v110/127/89/217200518/n217200518_30402732_295.jpg

Note the penny on top of the inverted pot, this is to show the relative size of everything.

2). Flip the pot right-side-up and fill with the playground gravel up to about 1"-1.5". Make sure it is spread evenly, this is vital to proper dranage of the soil.

http://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v110/127/89/217200518/n217200518_30402733_441.jpg

3). Run the rope through the holes so that there is only about 1 foot of rope dangling out of each side. The rest should be slack on the inside of the pot. Now gradually pour in the potting soil while spiralling the rope upwards. The rope should never touch itself as you go around. Once the pot is about 3/4 full, set your plant(s) in and pat them gently. Then continue to fill with soil until it is about 1" from the rim of the pot. You should not see anymore rope.

***Note: I have heard you are supposed to soak the rope first before using.. I have never personally done this but it does make sense to speed up the wicking process. The first picture is after I inserted the plant into the new soil. The second picture is once the last layer of soil was added. The 5 gallon jug next to it is my rain water.

http://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v110/127/89/217200518/n217200518_30402734_592.jpg

http://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v110/127/89/217200518/n217200518_30402736_905.jpg

4). Gradually water the soil evenly until it begins to drain out the bottom. The top layer of the soil should be moist everywhere. As you are doing so make sure to get all the leaves moist. Once the pot is done draining, it is time to at the tent. I use 4 wire hangers stretched out but I have known others to use dowel rods (I tend to improvise when possible). Then I put the clear bag over the wires and pull it down like a sock over the rim. My bag just happens to fit snug, but if your bag fits loosely, simply use tape to make it tight.

http://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v110/127/89/217200518/n217200518_30402737_1056.jpg

Then put the miniature greenhouse where it will be living at (usually by a window where it can get partial sunlight). These plants tend to be very adaptive, but having too much light will result in smaller leaves, and too little light will result in slow growth overall.

The final step is to elevate your pot so that the watering containers (I use drinking glasses) set at about the level of the bottom of the pot. Each hanging rope should be set in a glass.

http://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v110/127/89/217200518/n217200518_30402738_1226.jpg

A system like this is relatively self-sustaining. It prevents the plant from being overwatered or underwatered (both have devestating effects on a new Salvia cutting). You will, of coarse, need to make sure the glasses have water in them. Also, about once a week, take a spray bottle and mist the leaves and the top layer of soil to make sure it stays moist.

If done right, the humidity tent should always have condensation forming on the inside of it.

[nbk2000]

Question:

How do you know that these are, in fact, Salvia A plants? Is there some unique characteristic (besides psychoactive effects) that differentiates them from all the other Salvia plants?

RTPB 'Trust, but verify'.

Also, having exotic plants that require such esoteric care near windows where neighbors can see them, is an invitation for pork to visit.

[NoltaiR]

Certainly a fair question. And for any of you that may choose to puchase these someday, you will want to know that you are, in fact, not getting ripped off.

There are two very distinctive traits that these plants possess (and I don't know of any other commercially traded plant that has these). First is the shape. The main stem(s) are square, but if you were to cut the plant (which you will do to make clones), you will notice that the inside of the stem is a hollow circle. In the past I have read that the circle within a square is an ancient symbol of divinity, but I haven't found any scholarly proof to back it up.

The second most notable trait about these plants is that they create several leaves at the node sites AND after having fully developed, they shoot off roots. If they were grown in their native land in Mexico, the top heavy plants will often lean to the ground. With the root sites already functional, the plant would make 'runs' similar to that of carpet grass.

Once the new root system is established, the older mother stem may fall off and you are left with an entirely new plant.

Another trait that these plants have (and this is something that requires experience more than a quick glance) is that the leaves and stem edges quickly turn brown when overwatered, and the whole plant will droop VERY quickly if underwatered.

If your plant is used to high humidity (as they all naturally are) and you remove the humidity tent/dome, within hours your plant will begin to die.

In reply to the last comment about the neighbors, I have never had a problem with it. I live in a pretty nice neighborhood and having house plants is the norm. Although if someone knew of you growing Sd, you may consider a more discrete method of providing sunlight.

[Charles Owlen Picket]

Did a little research on this plant and it seems pretty wild.....are the psycho-active elements easily isolated from the organic materials?

Was this ever (or could it ever be) weaponized like lysergic acid or other small dose psycho-active chemicals? Can that be isolated at all for that matter & what would the dose level be?

[NoltaiR]

Well "easy" is an opinionated word. The Salvinorin A can be isolated to about 80-90% purity with about 30 minutes worth of work (along with a few days worth of evaporating time). At this strength it is far too potent to consume. The strongest extract I have seen available for sale online is 60x extract. A normal leaf contains, on average, 2.5mg of Salvinorin A per 1g of leaf. So even at 60x strength, you still only have 150mg per 1g of leaf. For those of you with trouble doing the math, thats only a 15% purity of Salvinorin A.

I have seen videos of people smoking the 60x and they are all pretty much incapacitated until the high wears off. I fear that consuming something around 50%+ purity could likely do some severe brain damage or at the very least put you into a sort of coma.

Obviously there could be some uses as a weapon here, but since I am trying to focus this thread on non-E&W, I won't discuss it (hence the reason for the new thread).

[hatal]

I fear that consuming something around 50%+ purity could likely do some severe brain damage or at the very least put you into a sort of coma.


Brain damage, unlikely. Most likely equal to a double/triple dose of DMT (being shot out of a qiant cannon into the unknown dimensions with the speed of light).:D

[NoltaiR]

Well that's probably one topic that will go unresearched :P I am usually the daring type when it comes to expanding my knowledge of science, but I think I will have to draw the line here.

If you haven't already, go on youtube and look up salvia videos. There are a ton of clips of people smoking Sd. Watch how fast it reacts to them.

[Charles Owlen Picket]

I assume intoxication dosage would vary (of course). For an average 200lbs adult male what would be the dosage spread? What could be expected? What is a kappa-Opoid hallucinogen?

[NoltaiR]

First of all, I would like to say that I appreciate that you guys are taking interest in this thread. It is one of the few topics that hasn't been beaten to death with discussion before. On the contrary, there really isn't any valid info about Sd before this thread. As a result, I will try to reply to the posts as quickly as possible. Hopefully this will interest others into growing this extremely rare plant.

The answer to your question about the 200lb male is probably not what you would expect. Salvinorin A is known to have reverse-tolerance effects. Meaning that if a given individual was to take a 1 gram dose each day for a week, at the end of the week he would be more affected by the chemical than the first day.

Now if you are comparing two people of different size and both have not taken it before and were given dosages in precisely the same amount, it would be understandable that the larger person would need more.

In my personal experience, the difference in size of the people taking Sd hasn't shown a noticable change in the psyco-active effects. I have seen a 110 lb woman get just as high as a 190 lb man.

I have never heard of the kappa-opoid you are speaking of so I cannot answer.

The only scholarly article I have found about Salvia divinorum is as follows:

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Salvia divinorum and Salvinorin A: new pharmacologic findings
Daniel J. Siebert

P.O. Box 661552. Los Angeles, CA 90066 USA

Received 18 August 1993: revision received 28 December 1993: accepted 24 March 1994

The diterpene salvinorin A from Salvia divinorum (Epling and Jativa-M), in doses of 200-500 µg produces effects which are subjectively identical to those experienced when the whole herb is ingested. Salvinorin A is effectively deactivated by the gastrointestinal system, so alternative routes of absorption must be used to maintain its activity. Traditionally the herb is consumed either by chewing the fresh leaves or by drinking the juices of freshly crushed leaves. The effects of the herb when consumed this way depend on absorption of salvinorin A through the oral mucosa before the herb is swallowed.

Keywords. Salvia divinorum; Salvinorin A; Psychoactive plants; Psychoactive compounds

1. Introduction

Salvia divinorum is used by the Mazatec Indians of northeastern Oaxaca, Mexico primarily for its psychoactive effects which aid in ritual divination (Wasson, 1962, 1963). It is also employed remedially to treat various health conditions (Valdes et al., 1983).

The first live specimens of S. divinorum were given to Carl Epling by R. Gordon Wasson in 1962 and were cultivated at the University of California in Los Angeles (Wasson, 1962). Cuttings of this original clone were distributed to other botanical collections over the years and most of the plants in cultivation in the USA today originated from this original clone (Valdes et al., 1987). Recently, other clones have been appearing in collections. As of this writing there are at least four different clones present in public and private botanical collections in the USA.

The chemistry of this plant has been investigated several times. The diterpenes salvinorin A and salvinorin B have been identified and characterized. Salvinorin A has been shown to be active in mice while salvinorin B was inactive. No human studies with these compounds have previously been reported (Ortega et al., 1982; Valdes et al., 1984). Trace amounts of other diterpenes have been detected but have not yet been characterized (Valdes et al., 1984).

There are two methods of ingestion traditionally employed: either the fresh whole leaves are masticated and swallowed or, alternatively, the leaves are crushed to extract the juices which are then drunk. Of these two methods, chewing of the leaves is most reliable and requires a smaller quantity of leaves. The liquid preparation is often ineffective and when it does produce effects they are usually much milder than those reported for chewing, even when substantially larger quantities of leaves are used in the preparation.

When the leaves are chewed whole they must first be chewed well enough to be easily swallowed and so spend quite some time in contact with the oral mucosa. When the leaf juice preparation is consumed it can be swallowed fairly quickly and consequently spends relatively little time in contact with the oral mucosa. The level of effects reported relates quite closely to the length of time the material spends in the mouth before being swallowed.

This presentation describes the effects of salvinorin A in humans, its deactivation by the gastrointestinal system and the essential role of the oral mucosa as an absorption site for salvinorin A from orally ingested leaves.

2. Materials and methods

All plant material used in this study was propagated from the clone riginally brought into the USA by R. Gordon Wasson in 1962.

2.1. Salvia divinorum leaves.

In order to investigate the relative importance of the oral mucosa as an absorption site for the active principals in S. divinorum leaves, the following experiments were carried out by six volunteers using ten large fresh leaves each (approximately 30 g total) which had been homogenized with 100 ml water using a blender. Each experiment was separated by several days.

The material was swallowed as quickly as possible with the intention of quickly bypassing the oral mucosa; then the mouth was immediately rinsed with water to wash away any residual material that might be clinging to the oral mucosa. None of the volunteers reported any noticeable effects when the material was ingested in this manner.

The material was held in the mouth for 10 min without swallowing; then the entire contents were spit out. This method proved consistently effective with all of the volunteers reporting very definite psychoactive effects.

2.2. Salvinorin A

Salvinorin A was isolated following the method of Valdes (Valdes et al., 1984). The identity of this material was verified by comparison with an authentic sample of salvinorin A using TLC, melting point and NMR.

Salvinorin A has previously been shown to be active in mice but it has remained uncertain whether this compound is responsible for the psychoactive effects produced in humans. In order to determine this, salvinorin A was administered to a group of 20 volunteers.

When salvinorin A was encapsulated and swallowed in doses as high as 10 mg there was no detectable activity. Experiments with the leaves indicate that the active principle of the plant is deactivated by the gastrointestinal system. To test for activity of salvinorin A, alternative routes of ingestion were attempted. Salvinorin A is not water soluble so injection was not attempted.

Absorption through the oral mucosa. A 2-mg quantity of salvinorin A was dissolved in 1 ml anhydrous ethyl alcohol then sprayed on the inner surfaces of the mouth using an aspirator. The material proved to be active; however only a small percentage is absorbed this way before it gets dispersed by salivary flow. Consequently this method was inefficient and results were inconsistent.

Inhalation of the vaporized compound. The material was placed on a piece of aluminum foil. A butane micro torch was then held beneath the foil until the material was seen to vaporize. As soon as this began, the vapors were inhaled through a 15-mm glass tube.

Inhalation of the vapors produced by heating salvinorin A proved to be the most efficient method of ingestion tested. When 200-500 µg of salvinorin A is vaporized and inhaled the subjective effects produced are identical to those typically produced by the fresh herb. Doses up to 2.6 mg were tested in this manner. Typically threshold effects are noted at about 200 µg.

2.3. Effects

When salvinorin A is absorbed through the oral mucosa the first effects are usually experienced in 5-10 min. The strength of the effects builds very quickly over a few minutes, maintaining a plateau for about 1 h. The effects gradually subside over another l-h period. The evolution of effects over time is identical to that of orally ingested S. divinorum leaves.

When salvinorin A is vaporized and inhaled the full effects are experienced in about 30 s. There is almost no transition period experienced. The strongest effects last 5-10 min and then gradually subside over about 20-30 min. As dosage increases above 1 mg the duration of the effects are somewhat increased. A similar evolution of effects is reported for smoked S. divinorum leaves.

The oral mucosa apparently acts as a time release buffer, slowly diffusing salvinorin A into the blood stream; hence when consumed orally, the effects begin more gradually, last longer and subside over a longer period of time than when the material is vaporized and inhaled. Although variable in duration, the effects experienced have the same overall characteristics regardless of the route of absorption used.

The nature of the effects experienced depends on many factors including dose, set and setting. Frequently people report having seen visions of people, objects, and places. With doses above 1 mg, out of body experiences are frequent. Occasionally individuals get up and move about with no apparent awareness of their movements or behavior. Some individuals speak gibberish during the most intense phase of the experience, others laugh hysterically.

Certain themes are common to many of the visions and sensations described. The following is a listing of some of the more common themes:

Becoming objects (yellow plaid French fries, fresh paint, a drawer, a pant leg, a Ferris wheel, etc.).

Visions of various two dimensional surfaces, films and membranes.

Revisiting places from the past, especially childhood.

Loss of the body and/or identity.

Various sensations of motion, or being pulled or twisted by forces of some kind.

Uncontrollable hysterical laughter.

Overlapping realities. The perception that one is in several locations at once.

Some of the effects appear to parallel those of other hallucinogens (i.e. the depersonalization experienced with ketamine, the rapid onset of effects and short duration of smoked DMT). The volunteers who were experienced with other hallucinogens all agreed that despite some similarities, the content of the visions and the overall character of the experience is quite unique.

2.4. Receptor Site Screening and MAO Inhibition

A sample of salvinorin A was submitted to NovaScreen™ for receptor site screening. At screening concentrations of 10-5 M there was no significant inhibition (i.e. 50% or less) for the following sites.
Neurotransmitters: Adenosine, alpha 1, alpha 2, beta, dopamine 1, dopamine 2, GABA-A, GABA-B, serotonin 1, serotonin 2, muscarinic 3, NMDA, kainate, quisqualate, glycine (stry sens.).
Regulatory sites: Benzodiazepine(centrl), glycine (stry insens.), PCP, MK-801.

Brain/gut peptides: angiotensin Ty2, arg-vasopressin Vl, bombesin, CCK central, CCK peripheral, substance P, substance K, NPY, neurotensin, somatostatin, VIP.
Growth factors and peptides: ANF I, EGF, NGF.
Ion channels: Calcium (type N), calcium (type T and L), chloride, potassium (low conduct).
Second messengers: Forskolin, phorbol ester, inositol triphosphate.
Monoamine oxidase inhibition: Monoamine oxidase A, monoamine oxidase B.

3. Discussion and conclusions

When S. divinorum leaves are consumed, either by chewing the fresh leaves or by retaining the leaf juices in the mouth, enough of the highly active compound salvinorin A is absorbed through the oral mucosa and into the blood stream to produce a psychoactive effect. Swallowing of the herb is unnecessary and its effects are increased by lengthening the amount of time that the herb remains in the mouth. When the leaf juices are quickly swallowed, minimizing contact with the oral mucosa, the only route of absorption is through the gastrointestinal system where salvinorin A is deactivated before entering the blood stream. When pure salvinorin A is encapsulated and swallowed it is inactive even at relatively large doses, but when absorbed through the oral mucosa or vaporized and inhaled is extremely active. It is likely that if salvinorin A were administered by injection, it would prove to be active at even lower doses than those described in this paper.

Salvinorin A is the first entheogenic diterpene reported and is active in humans at extraordinarily low doses. It does not appear to affect any of the receptor sites affected by other hallucinogens. Further research into the methods of action and possible medicinal values of this and similar compounds may prove to be quite rewarding.

Acknowledgments
I am grateful to Dr Leander Valdes III for supplying a reference sample of salvinorin A, and Dr David Nichols for his role in the receptor site screening of salvinorin A through his NIMH-funded research program.

References

Ortega, A., Blount, J.F. and Manchand, P.S. (1982) Salvinorin. a new lrans-neoclerodane diterpene from Salvia divinorum (Labiatae). Journal of the Chemical Society. Perkin Trans-actions 1: Organic and Bio-Organic Chemistry 2505-2508.

Valdes, L.J. III., Diaz J.L. and Ara G. Paul. (1983) Ethnopharmacology of Ska Maria Pastora (Salvia divinorum Epling and Jativa-M.). Journal of Ethnopharmacology 7, 287-312.

Valdes, L. J.III., Butler, W.M., Hatfield, G.M., Paul. A.G. and Koreeda, M. (1984) Divinorin A, a psychotropic terpenoid, and divinorin B from the hallucinogenic mint Salvia divinorum. Journal of Organic Chemistry 49, 4716-4720.

Valdes, L.J. III., Hatfield, G.M., Paul, A.G.and Koreeda M. (1987) Studies of Salvia divinorum (Lamiaceae), an hallucinogenic mint from the Sierra Mazateca in Oaxaca. Central Mexico. Economic Botany 41(2), 283-291.

Wasson, R.G. (1962) A new Mexican psychotropic drug from the mint family. Botanical Museum Leaflets Harvard University 20 77-84.

Wasson, R.G. (1963) Notes on the present status of ololuiqui and the other hallucinogens of Mexico. Botanical Museum Leaflets Harvard University 20, 161 - 193.

[The_Duke]

I have tried smoking Salvia once, but did not like the buzz.

The Salvia divinorum Research and Information Center (http://www.sagewisdom.org/)

The Chemistry of Salvia Divinorum by T. Munro (2006) (http://eprints.infodiv.unimelb.edu.au/archive/00002327/01/Munro2006thesis.pdf)

[NoltaiR]

You are my hero.

That is the most incredible piece of information I have ever seen.

I had to post these excerpts as I read. I know that very few will actually bother looking at the dissertation, so these are just some interesting parts.

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p. 34
First-hand accounts of the effects vary from barely perceptible (an overlay of “dancing colours”)5 to
powerful experiences, in which awareness of reality is lost and bizarre visions
are perceived as real:

"I saw a pulsating purplish light that changed to an insect-like shape,
perhaps a bee or a moth, and then into a pulsating sea anemone.
It expanded into a desert full of prickly pear cacti, and remained
so for several minutes. During the first session and throughout the
night, my visions had all appeared to be something like a cross
between a silent moving picture and a cartoon. I felt myself to
be an observer of these mute visions, rather than being an actual
part of them. Suddenly, however, I was in a broad meadow with
brightly colored flowers. I had just crossed a stream by way of a
small wooden bridge. Next to me was something that seemed to
be the skeleton of a giant model airplane made of rainbow colored
inner tubing. The sky was bright blue and I could see ... woods in
the distance. I found myself talking to a man in a shining white
robe who was either shaking my hand, or else holding on to it.
It was an amazing hallucination, as I truly believed I was in the
meadow."

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Read page 54-57 for the answer to the kappa opioid question.

Here is a peice which may summarize it:

Since the objective had been to eliminate the euphoria associated with opioids,
the aversive nature of κ opioids was initially regarded as desirable. Human
tests soon revealed a problem: rather than euphoria, κ opioids produced dysphoria.
This lowering of mood was accompanied by “psychotomimetic” effects:
confusion, hallucinations and depersonalisation.

Enadoline, for instance, caused side effects such as somnolence, hallucinations,
anxiety, depersonalisation, confusion and abnormal thinking; the severity
of these effects led to termination of clinical development.Subsequent
tests with higher doses reported visual, auditory and tactile hallucinations,
along with impaired coordination and recall. One subject felt waves moving
through the floor, and felt his body was blending into them. Spiradoline
caused altered perceptions, impaired coordination and slurred
speech; subjects reported being more irritable, anxious and sad.Responses
to other κ opioids range from “personality disorders and mild confusion” to “depersonalisation”, “dreamlike” experiences and “episodes of unmotivated
and uncontrolled laughter”

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P. 63
The plant nonetheless remained extremely obscure until Siebert’s findings were
popularised in 1996 by Turner. This immediately overturned the plant’s
reputation as a weak substitute for illicit drugs:

Salvinorin A is the most potent naturally occurring psychedelic
known ... it frequently induces experiences of an intensity [...] beyond
those experienced with any other psychedelic ...

The plant’s notoriety then began to grow. Online companies began selling live
cuttings, dried leaves, extracts and tinctures for recreational use. Interestingly,
however, after being widely available for a decade, the drug has not had any
noticeable social impact (as for instance LSD and MDMA rapidly did). As
Turner noted:

Many who have used salvinorin A find the experience extremely
unnerving, frightening and overly intense. Most have no desire to
repeat the experience.

-----------------------------------------------
p. 117

2.2.6.2 Derivation of the Name Divinatorin.

The inspiration for the name “divinatorin” was a comment by Albert Hofmann,
who obtained the type specimen of S. divinorum for botanical identification:

It was determined at the Botanical Department at Harvard that it
was a new species of Salvia and it got the name Salvia divinorum.
It is a wrong name, bad Latin; it should be actually Salvia divinatorum.
They do not know very good Latin, these botanists. I was not
very happy with the name because Salvia divinorum means “Salvia
of the ghosts” whereas Salvia divinatorum, the correct name, means
“Salvia of the priests”

The original name was coined by Carl Epling, a botanist fluent in Latin, and
was intended to mean “of the seers.” According to classicist Dr Parshia Lee-
Stecum, the original name is in fact correct, being taken from the adjective
divinus:

divinus ... can be (and was as early as classical antiquity) used as
a substantive, meaning “soothsayer/prophet/seer”. Hence divinorum:
“of the prophets/soothsayers/seers”.

[nbk2000]

Obviously there could be some uses as a weapon here, but since I am trying to focus this thread on non-E&W, I won't discuss it (hence the reason for the new thread).

You'll please note that this is the Explosives and Weapons Forum, not Erowid or The Hive.

The only reason this thread is being allowed is because of the potential for developing SD as a pscyhoactive weapons agent.

Think we'd allow someone to discuss growing Castor Bean trees without discussing Ricin? :rolleyes:

[NoltaiR]

Maybe after a few months have gone by and I refine some of the leaves, I will sell some of the product on ebay through an artificial account. If anyone is interested in trying it, the price would be quite low.

[Charles Owlen Picket]

I got some junk in the post here - please excuse that....but I like to site source. Seems there is kidney damage issues but it could be weaponized. the information below describes the Opioid receptor issues and provide further source for a great deal of info related to possible weaponization.


Salvinorin A: A potent naturally occurring
nonnitrogenous
opioid selective agonist
Bryan L. Roth* Karen Baner*, Richard Westkaemper
, Daniel Siebert**, Kenner C. Rice††, SeAnna Steinberg*,
Paul Ernsberger*, and Richard B. Rothman
*National Institute of Mental Health Psychoactive Drug Screening Program, and Departments of †Biochemistry, ‡Psychiatry, §Neurosciences, and
‡‡Pharmacology and Nutrition, Case Western Reserve University Medical School, Cleveland, OH 44106; §§Clinical Psychopharmacology Section,
Intramural Research Program, National Institute on Drug Abuse, National Institutes of Health, Baltimore, MD 21224; Department of
Medicinal Chemistry, Medical College of Virginia, Richmond, VA 23298; **The Salvia divinorum Research and Information Center,
Malibu, CA 90263; and ††Laboratory of Medicinal Chemistry, National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases,
National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, MD 20892
Edited by Erminio Costa, University of Illinois, Chicago, IL, and approved July 9, 2002 (received for review April 18, 2002)
Salvia divinorum, whose main active ingredient is the neoclerodane
diterpene Salvinorin A, is a hallucinogenic plant in the mint
family that has been used in traditional spiritual practices for its
psychoactive properties by the Mazatecs of Oaxaca, Mexico. More
recently, S. divinorum extracts and Salvinorin A have become more
widely used in the U.S. as legal hallucinogens. We discovered that
Salvinorin A potently and selectively inhibited 3H-bremazocine
binding to cloned
opioid receptors. Salvinorin A had no significant
activity against a battery of 50 receptors, transporters, and ion
channels and showed a distinctive profile compared with the
prototypic hallucinogen lysergic acid diethylamide. Functional
studies demonstrated that Salvinorin A is a potent
opioid agonist
at cloned
opioid receptors expressed in human embryonic
kidney-293 cells and at native
opioid receptors expressed in
guinea pig brain. Importantly, Salvinorin A had no actions at the
5-HT2A serotonin receptor, the principal molecular target responsible
for the actions of classical hallucinogens. Salvinorin A thus
represents, to our knowledge, the first naturally occurring nonnitrogenous
opioid-receptor subtype-selective agonist. Because
Salvinorin A is a psychotomimetic selective for
opioid receptors,

opioid-selective antagonists may represent novel psychotherapeutic
compounds for diseases manifested by perceptual distortions
(e.g., schizophrenia, dementia, and bipolar disorders). Additionally,
these results suggest that
opioid receptors play a
prominent role in the modulation of human perception.
Salvia divinorum, a member of the mint family, is a psychoactive
plant that has been used in traditional spiritual
practices by the Mazatec people of Oaxaca, Mexico for many
centuries (1). S. divinorum also grows in California and has been
used as a legal hallucinogen for several years (2). Traditionally,
S. divinorum is ingested as a quid or smoked for its psychoactive
properties (1) and has been reported to have potent hallucinatory
actions (1, 3). The main active ingredient of S. divinorum is
Salvinorin A (Fig. 1), a novel neoclerodane diterpene of known
absolute configuration (4) whose structure was determined by
single-crystal x-ray analysis in two independent studies (5, 6).
Salvinorin A is structurally distinct from the naturally occurring
hallucinogens N,N-dimethyltryptamine, psilocybin, and mescaline
and synthetic hallucinogens such as lysergic acid diethylamide
(LSD), 4-bromo-2,5-dimethoxyphenylisopropylamine
(DOB), and ketamine. Salvinorin A has been reported to be the
most potent naturally occurring hallucinogen, with an effective
dose in humans in the 200- to 1,000-
g range when smoked (1,
3). Salvinorin A thus rivals the synthetic hallucinogens LSD and
DOB in potency. Salvinorin A has been reported to induce an
intense hallucinatory experience in humans, with a typical
duration of action being several minutes to an hour or so (1).
Several prior investigations attempted unsuccessfully to identify
the molecular and cellular targets responsible for the actions
of Salvinorin A (1, 3) by using mainly nonhuman molecular
targets. Since then, it has become widely recognized that the
pharmacological properties of rodent and human molecular
targets are frequently distinct (7), and that tissue-based radioligand
binding assays frequently yield inaccurate estimates of
drug potency and selectivity. Accordingly, we reexamined the
molecular pharmacological profile of the novel diterpene Salvinorin
A at a large number of cloned human G protein-coupled
receptors (GPCRs), channels, and transporters. We report here
that Salvinorin A is a potent and selective  opioid receptor
(KOR) agonist and represents, to our knowledge, the first
nonalkaloid opioid subtype-selective drug. We suggest that
because the KOR has long been recognized as a target for
psychotomimetic agents, KOR antagonists may represent a
novel class of psychotherapeutic compounds. Our results also
suggest that the KOR
dynorphin peptide system functions to
modulate human perception.
Materials and Methods
Materials. Two sources of Salvinorin A were used for the studies
described here: Biosearch and the Salvia divinorum Research
and Information Center, Malibu, CA; both samples were identical
by thin-layer chromatography and mass spectroscopy and
showed the expected molecular ion in the mass spectrum. In
addition, the Biosearch sample showed the reported melting
point (6), and the Varian 300 MHz NMR spectrum was identical
with that reported. The coding region of the KOR was cloned via
PCR-amplification of ‘‘Quick-Clone’’ cDNA (CLONTECH)
and subcloned into the eukaryotic expression vector pIRESNEO
via NotI adaptors to yield pIRESNEO-KOR.

[NoltaiR]

I like how in all the post-doctorate studies, they use mice and rats for testing (NIMH funded much of the original research). I am curious to know what an intoxicated mouse might look like :)

------------------------------------------

I think the following is the most important detail about this plant as is concerned with this forum:

"Salvinorin A has been reported to be the most potent naturally occurring hallucinogen, with an effective dose in humans in the 200-µg to 1,000-µg range when smoked. Salvinorin A thus rivals the synthetic hallucinogens LSD and DOB in potency."

[hatal]

Why waste it on a poor laboratory mice. Its ready for human-testing.And you won't have any problems finding an adequate specimen. People our not as reluctant to try free hallucinogens as it may seem. (They will be all over you on ebay, and thats just one slice of the gene-pool.)

U.I.: I would take a "bite" myself, but sometimes I even freak out on MJ. It triples my "normal" paranoia.

[Grapes Of Wraith]

that is a known symptom of "MJ" who's to say that salvia D will give you the same reaction. I've heard of people being scared on a salvia trip but never paranoid.

[Charles Owlen Picket]

The problem is that that is not a predictable response (paranoia). Which, in and of itself, would be of fantastic value.

I am not quite sure of this but I seem to remember that the BZ experiments may have shown some psychometric results which included paranoia. I know I am on sure footing when the confidential test results of lysergic acid were available that indicated unprovoked fear response.

Most of these test formats were in a setting that did not lean to battle field experience. There may be likelihood that most any hallucinogenic substance would exacerbate fear to an unmanageable degree in a combat setting.

That being said, most any substance that could be dispensed in either a micro dose level or easily manageable delivery system may function for that result.

I don't know whether that the use of psych-active materials would violate the laws of war.

[NoltaiR]

I don't know whether that the use of psych-active materials would violate the laws of war.

<a href="http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/FULL/280?OpenDocument">http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/FULL/280?OpenDocument</a>

It's the only thing I could find official. It is titled:
"Protocol for the Prohibition of the Use of Asphyxiating, Poisonous or Other Gases, and of Bacteriological Methods of Warfare. Geneva, 17 June 1925."

I guess using chemicals that only alter the state of mind are allowed... which would explain the attempted use of LSD during Vietnam.


The problem is that that is not a predictable response (paranoia). Which, in and of itself, would be of fantastic value.


Paranoia has never been noted as an effect of Salvinorin A. For someone to be paranoid, they need to be at least somewhat aware (and coherent) of their environment. The ability for Sd to truly draw you into another "reality" causes fear, not paranoia. The fear that what you see is really what is going on around you.

In a normal night-time dream, most people would say that they feel as if they were watching the visions from a 3rd party view. And fortunatly for those who are actually interacting in their dreams, your body produces a chemical that temporarily paralyzes you. Sometimes this malfunctions and you get sleepwalkers or those that swing their arms during sleep. During a Salvia divinorum hallucination, your body is still functional. Maybe not completely, but the fact that you are operating in your conscious (not sub-conscious) mind makes for overwhelming realism.

[nbk2000]

If it can transport a mind into another reality, than it'd be safe to say that your targets would be completely defenseless in this one, right?

The problem with complex organic molecules is dispersal in a manner that's non-destructive.

Aerosolization seems the best way, but if it could be dispersed as part of a smoke composition, even at a loss, than that'd be better from the simplicity viewpoint.

[NoltaiR]

If it can transport a mind into another reality, than it'd be safe to say that your targets would be completely defenseless in this one, right?


"Defenseless" is a bit of an understatement. It implies that the target actually wishes to defend itself but cannot. In the case of Salvinorin A and LSD, a person could have a gun to their head and not have a care in the world.

[Enkidu]

Yes, I agree with NoltaiR in that the target would not be defenseless. It's not as though the victim is asleep or unconscious. The way in which the victim responds to any given situation would be completely random, as long as the situation is not threatening.

From swiE's experiences with LSD, he knows that the power of suggestion commands the moment. (That's why he's ended up BELIEVING that he and his friends were the last living people on earth and other even more ridiculous things.) Rather than attempting to incapacitate the victim with a large dose of LSD or Salvinorin A, a mild dose could be administered and the victim manipulated in such a way to be of use.

The problem with complex organic molecules is dispersal in a manner that's non-destructive.

Aerosolization seems the best way, but if it could be dispersed as part of a smoke composition, even at a loss, than that'd be better from the simplicity viewpoint.

Yes, the destruction of the molecule is a huge problem. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Salvia divinorum difficult to smoke properly even through a water pipe? Much of the Salvinorin A is destroyed when someone attempts to smoke it (similarly, most of the nicotine in tobacco is destroyed when smoked). However, a light dose may be desired, as I pointed out earlier.

One of the biggest problems (I think) would be regulating the administered dose.

The book I recently requested (and Chris the Great so graciously bought), Chemical Warfare: Secrets Almost Forgotten, should have excellent information about this sort of thing. I'll start reading it as soon as I have time.

[NoltaiR]

Actually Sd is very easy to smoke with a water pipe.. that is actually the easiest way I have ever used it. Effects are almost immediate, although the strongest part of the high only lasts 5-10 minutes (but believe me when I say you still feel less-than-normal for quite a long while afterward).

If there was a problem with smoking it, is that like tobacco, the packed Sd tends to stay cherry red even after the flame has been removed. But if the embers fall below the vaporization point of Salvinorin A, then you aren't going to get anything out of it. The pipe has to be inhaled while a continous flame is on it.

But if this was to be used in a smoke composition, there is no doubt that the temperature would be high enough. It would take an amazing amount of Salvia divinorum to do the job, but assuming that was not a problem, a smoke grenade laced with Salvinorin A could have some interesting effects.

I dream of having a Salvia divinorum nursery like this one day:

http://www.visionaryplants.com/images/salvia_divinorum_plant_nursery.jpg

[LibertyOrDeath]

From swiE's experiences with LSD, he knows that the power of suggestion commands the moment. (That's why he's ended up BELIEVING that he and his friends were the last living people on earth and other even more ridiculous things.) Rather than attempting to incapacitate the victim with a large dose of LSD or Salvinorin A, a mild dose could be administered and the victim manipulated in such a way to be of use.
This is an interesting idea, but having used LSD a few times myself (I believe my largest dose was about 300 micrograms, or 3 "hits") I have to question how reliably a person tripping from a hallucinogen could be manipulated. It very well may depend on the type of hallucinogen and the dosage, but it could also depend on random effects involving the subject's personality, mood, peculiarities in brain chemistry, etc.

Let me briefly discuss my personal experiences. On a typical acid trip, I was perfectly capable of rational thought. I was capable of speaking to my parents during a trip (I was a teenager at the time) without their knowledge that I was under the influence of anything. My hallucinations were mild and exclusively visual (nothing auditory/tactile): e.g., lights that would appear as ordinary white light to a "normal" person would appear to me as multicolored, as if they were being viewed through a prism. My mood while tripping was generally slightly euphoric, although I had one trip in which I remember feeling aggressive, like I wanted to raise hell and fight someone.

All in all, I seriously doubt I could have been manipulated successfully while in that state. I never forgot that I was tripping and remained in touch with reality. The case may be different for others, but again, I wouldn't count on the reliability of this method of manipulation -- at least not with doses of LSD comparable to what I took. Maybe Salvia divinorum is more effective and consistent, although that would be hard to test.

As for that other person's experiences, I've never heard of anyone reacting that way to LSD unless they were on a very large dose (e.g., ten hits).

[nbk2000]

If it (SD) could be absorbed through the skin (DMSO?), than contact with the target could be arranged somehow and exploited, as long as effects were at least somewhat predictable.

[Enkidu]

@Liberty: Good input. SwiE has only dropped acid three times. The dosages have all been in the 450ug range (liquid acid... he can only estimate the dosages). He could function 'normally' only if he set his mind to it, and he was distracted easily. Tasks such as writing were impossible. SwiE has never had a trip sitter (the entire group of five people always dropped at the same time), so he thinks that was the reason for the illogical thought: he had nothing to base his reality on except the moment. He knew he was on acid, but he couldn't remember back to the time before the ingestion of the LSD, and (as there was no trip sitter) no one was around to help him remember. In other words, he couldn't distinguish the effects of the LSD from 'reality.'

If one person came up with an idea (like time was 'unwinding backwards' and we had all been 'there' before, swiE can't really explain the feeling though... :o) then the idea spread quickly though the group and was accepted as truth.

If you were to dose an unsuspecting person (i.e., he doesn't have the luxury of thinking 'I'm on acid,' even if he feels that something's not quite right), manipulation would be easier.

However, you are right, psychoactives affect every person differently. There is nowhere near a guarantee that manipulation would be possible.

@NoltaiR: I'm sorry I'm cluttering your topic with slightly OT discussion. After you get your methods worked out, I think your best bet for a concise topic would be an SD 'user submitted' page.

BTW, I see your point that this thread should be about growing Salvia divinorum and/or extracting Salvinorin A as opposed to its application. (Just like an explosives synthesis thread isn't the place for demolition discussion.)

[NoltaiR]

For the life of me I can't find where I read this, but I have found that if a person was to take Salvinorin A directly through the blood stream, it is the most effective of all. None of the chemical is wasted as exhaled smoke, or ingested in the stomache where no reaction results.

Maybe if you had a blow gun and some darts covered in it... Rather than them falling down as in a tranquilizer, they would just go crazy.

[B]
I'm sorry I'm cluttering your topic with slightly OT discussion. After you get your methods worked out, I think your best bet for a concise topic would be an SD 'user submitted' page.

BTW, I see your point that this thread should be about growing Salvia divinorum and/or extracting Salvinorin A as opposed to its application. (Just like an explosives synthesis thread isn't the place for demolition discussion.)

No worries, NBK has already ruled that this thread must be consistent with its uses as a form of possible weapon. And, to be honest, the information that has come up in this thread has really been quite interesting. I don't think anywhere else online will you find any literature relating to using Salvinorin A as a possible tool in warfare.

--------------------------------
An interesting clipping from the "Erowid Salvia Vault":
"When the dose goes above 500 - 1000 mcg the effects can be very alarming, I have seen several people get up and lunge around the room falling over furniture, babbling incomprehensible nonsense and knocking their heads into walls. Several people have tried to wander out of the house. When the experience is over they have no memory of any of this. In fact they usually remember very different events. To an outside observer people in this condition have a blank look in their eyes as if no one is present (and perhaps no one is). It is also common for people to have a facial expression which is probably best described as being like that of a frightened animal. It appears that at these "larger" doses one completely loses awareness of, and control over, the physical body and for some reason part of the brain causes the body to get up and move about recklessly while the individual has no awareness of where their physical body is or what it is doing."

[Gammaray1981]

Firstly, I can testify to the Erowid excerpt above, in that I had the bruises to prove it, and an utterly freaked trip-sitter. (Calculated 1.5g, vapour inhalation, weight of SA based on supposed concentration in leaves x mass leaves.) That comes under "Never Again" territory.

And the big question - where did you get your plants? Since it (SD) won't grow from seed, they had to be cuttings/cross-spreadings when bought, I believe. Is it a stocked item in a nursery near you?

[NoltaiR]

You are correct in saying they won't grow from seeds. However the nursery I got them from is in Illinois (I'm in Texas). They just overnighted them to me and wrapped the plants in lots of wet paper towels.

I also find it interesting that you used the phrase "'never again' territory". While I find Sd to be quite nice to smoke, I have read many times (in many different places) that not only is Salvinorin A not addictive, but that many first time users are actually afraid of doing it again.

[Gammaray1981]

Not that much again. Salvia, sure. It's a pretty pleasant experience, usually, but I like to have at least a little knowledge of what I'm doing/have done. Doesn't it supposedly have some sort of anti-addictive/anti-tolerant property? Increased effects with over-use, or some such?

[NoltaiR]

Affirmative on the increased effects over continued use. Of coarse to me, this is a good thing. I can save more leaves to be sold. :)

[hatal]

Looked at a few salvia-trip videos on youtube. This stuff surely has a strange effect on most of the users. Better than MJ ...

[Neph]

Gammaray - It's been found that SD can in fact produce seeds and be grown from them. It's not as rare as most people think.

I saw a site that describes the process of producing SD seeds, I'll look for the link later...

[NoltaiR]

I think you should read that website closely and then determine if it is really possible. Every expert analysis of Salvia divinorum says that the plants do not normally produce seeds (although it IS certainly possible). Some texts that are not-so-scholarly make it sound a little easier.. what they often don't come right out and say is that the seeds generally require HAND POLLINATION.

If you were searching for a good page about hand pollenating Salvia divinorum, here is the best I have found:
http://www.members.cox.net/sageseeds

But first and foremost, why take the time to make seeds when cuttings are so much easier???

Anyways enough of that..

I was rather unnecessarily banned last week so I am going to only post on this thread and only about 1-2 times a month at that.

I will answer any questions that may arise during that time along with explaining any new developments with my plants.

As of yesterday I ordered 1 pound of Sierra Mazateca Sd dried leaf which I will make some quick extract with. My method is really a hybrid of both the standardized and nonstandardized methods. Sometime next week I will post pictures along with procedures for that.

Also my current plants incurred overwatering so the edges of the leaves started turning black. I have since stopped the watering from above (the rope wicking system is still in place) and they are starting to perk up again. Just goes to show how sensitive they really are.

[NoltaiR]

If the Salvia threads move along nicely, sometime in the DISTANT future, I may muddle in the realm of extracting LSA (Lysergic acid) from Heavenly Blue Morning Glory seeds (Ipomoea tricolor although you more commonly will find it named Ipomoea violacea). It is a well known precursor to LSD (Lysergic acid diethylamide). Anyways, we'll see. Even if that does happen though, there won't be any pictures taken. LSA production tends to be monitored by the government.

The seeds of this species are said to contain about .02% LSA. Obviously that means you will need a lot of them. Thankfully most places that sell them offer batches of 1000-1500 for a reasonable price.

http://www.incb.org/pdf/e/list/red.pdf

It is titled "LIST OF PRECURSORS AND CHEMICALS FREQUENTLY USED IN THE ILLICIT MANUFACTURE OF NARCOTIC DRUGS AND PSYCHOTROPIC SUBSTANCES UNDER INTERNATIONAL CONTROL". Prepared by "INTERNATIONAL NARCOTICS CONTROL BOARD".


-----------------------------------------------------------------------

While I hate that this section of theforum is being labeled as 'things the nazis would do', I will present an interesting idea for mass weaponization that some may find amusing.

First off I will say that the idea of a smoke composition would be effective, but being that the smoke is visible, a target could probably avoid it if given proper time and an exit.

Now consider the idea of a hybrid aerosol. Within you would have pure crystalline Salvinorin A with the aerosol gas in an upper chamber. At this point the cannister would not be functional because the Salvinorin A would be a solid. Now lets say in a bottom (separate) chamber of the cannister, there were two other compounds that when mixed, would be exothermic (generate a large amount of heat). The Salvinorin A vaporizes at approx 240°C and thus you would have a pressurized gas (the temperature increase would further increase the pressure in the can).

Either by a timed release valve or a pressure release valve, the gaseous Salvinorin A would be released into the area surrounding at near 100% purity. There would be no smoke because this is vaporization. Targets would never even know they were inhaling this...

[NoltaiR]

Since my last post, not much has happened in the Salvia divinorum world (in my case at least).

I received that pound of dried leaf. For anyone interested in this I would recommend purchasing the foliage in large amounts.. it is relatively cheap (I paid $70 including shipping) and you don't have to wait a years for a plant to grow.

Since then I have used about half of it (350g) to make some extract. I used the quick-and-easy approach to make some 7x and it went over pretty well. Not strong enough to give me hallucinations (it seems that I need at least 40x) but certainly enough to keep me from moving. Feels a little like someone strapped me in a straight jacket and bound me to a chair.

Some bad news is that of the 2 plants that I ordered, one has died due to a massive whitefly infestation. The guy that sold it to me claimed he has never had a problem with them so I don't know where they came from. Presently I am trying to kill them before my other plant dies but I may have let it go on too long already.

Sometime next week I will to a posting (with pictures) of making some 20x with the remaining leaf so stay tuned for that.

[NoltaiR]

I completed a new batch a few days ago. The process used was about as simple as it gets (while still maintaining a decent product). I will write it up tomorrow evening and figure out someway to get my photos to show.

I will say that I used only acetone and cold water washes so it isn't possible (as far as I know) to get to pure crystalline form. You would need naptha and high purity isopropyl alcohol for that in order to fully separate the salvinorin from the chlorophylls. Because of this, the final product is VERY waxy still and can only be used if diluted back into some new leaf.

Note that this IS different from the very common method of taking acetone extract from a large amount of leaf and evaporating it onto a smaller amount. Most of the tannins are removed in my process and therefore 15-20x can be made without producing too much smoke.

When you look at my dried final product it looks like green flakes covered in silver glitter. It is beautiful!

[Rbick]

I had the opportunity to try some SD last night. I'm not sure why exactly, as I have usually not been the one to try drugs or things of the sort. I was however compelled by not only this thread but by other reports I have found on the internet. It was more out of curiousity and to give me an idea of what it would feel like it someone where to be "poisoned" unknowingling with pure salvinorin A.

The pure form can obviously be extracted as mentioned earlier in this thread, but it can also be purcahsed here (http://www.ascentscientific.com/SalvinorinA.php?searchterm=), as well as many other places on the net. The listed above was quite expensive, but other places can be cheaper. It may be better to buy it from a manufacturer for a high quality sample, as opposed to spending time doing it yourself and not getting as good of a product. I recall a sherlock holmes episode where a criminal goes around with blow gun darts dipped in opium, striking unexpecting victims, causing them to kill themselves. Although I doubt this would happen with salvinorin A, it would at least incapacitate your target.

My experience was quite strange. I took the dose (about .3g of 10x extract) at about 22:30 and didn't feel anything for about 5-10 minutes. Then it really hit. I couldn't walk well, as I felt like I was floating, and I would try to pick things up but couldn't hold on to them well. It almost felt like a dream. It didn't end there however. When I started to come down, my mind was racing with completely random thoughts of talking to people I didn't know. This continued until 0100. I then fell asleep for 2 hours, and awoke again due to really messed up dreams. I couldn't sleep and constantly felt strange, like my limbs were detatched. I finally fell asleep again at 0600. So I got no sleep and now I'm tired as hell.

I also ordered a plant of SD for my apartment. I see it as a promising source of income in the future. It is currently legal to grow and sell SD as long as it is considered for incense use.

So in conclusion, someone experiencing this unexpectedly would freak out, especially in a pure dose of salvinorin A. Perhaps the dart delivery method is not so far fetched?

[Red Beret]

Any updates on your project noltair? It seems to me, that the extract of this plant has a high potential as a "pschedellic knockout agent", if such a things does exist. At the very least it could be covertly introduced into a targets food intake to act a a severe "harrasing agent".

Possible uses I can forsee; a little petty but payback, using it to incapacitate the target in terms of mental function, maybe even sending the target insane, or causing suicicde.

If a transdermal "spray on" system of administration were developed, the potential uses would be greatly increased. Has anyone had any success with transdermal administration? I'm not keen to test this on myself.

[Masonjar Chemist]

Any updates on your project noltair
?

Sorry, but I doubt you will be hearing back from him, at least any time soon.

Last Activity: November 1st, 2007 10:29 PM

[Hinckleyforpresident]

It might be cheaper to simply purchase bulk salvia leaf for refinement from mexican greenhouses. I've found places before that sell 1-1000 kilos of leaf at a time to individuals for pretty cheap prices....

Here are my thoughts on large scale refinement:

IMO, it is far better to extract using an automated extractor instead of the ghetto "Jar method" that is popularized in many places. The jar method works fine, but if you're dealing with 5 pounds of salvia at once, the solvent would start getting very expensive very quickly.

A large soxhlet extractor could be made from a large metal bucket and some copper tubing. The condenser could be made from some type of pipe. The boiling vessel could also be fashioned from a bucket or something similar.

Once the solvent coming from the leaf is almost clear the extraction would be done.

Then it would the be the simple, but tedious task of separating the salvinorin/tannin/chlorophyll into its constituents.

If you're a stickler for purity, the crystal salvinorins obtained could be separated into pure A, B, C, etc. products by column chromatography. The crystal could then easily be put onto many different mediums for ingestion.