So, I was wondering?

[Omniknight]

Say that someone would want to kill someone or a large number of people while looking totally innocent, albeit just a random pain in the ass on a hot summer day.

Say that same someone would fill a super-soaker rifle with a mix of 70:30 KCN/DMSO and sprayed people he didn't like with it.

What would be the result? I mean would the cyanide be carried into the skin by the DMSO? And if so, what would be the average response time?

Wouldn't be too good to have people fall like flies just after being sprayed by you... it would make you a little bit suspicious :D

:)

[Vitalis]

The super soaker would leak on you and do the world a favor.
;)

[festergrump]

UTFSE, Omniknight. What have YOU come up with in your brief stay here? Haven't read any rules or been around long enough to know Forum ettiquette, have you?

I'm wondering if it's newbie 'sqeaks' and 'mews' will be just audible enough to wake the Beast, Vitalis. He's been quite actively seeking prey lately and has even accepted a surrogate meal or two...

I wonder if the Beast is again dumping energy into something truly phenominal. :)

[Enkidu]

Two helpful threads, NEWBIES! The Forums' unwritten rules...written down. (http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?t=2774) and guide for newbies by newbies (http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?t=3656) are still stuck in the now defunct Water Cooler. I realize that the Unwritten Rules thread has been chopped up and added to the FAQ page, but who ever reads those? I don't.

My polite suggestion is that they should be moved to forum matters. Although the points made in those threads are self-evident to the members of The Forum that survive for any length of time, some people, who otherwise might be useful in some form or fashion, may miss one or two or most of them.

[Omniknight]

Hey this was just a simple question.

And to Vitalis, i'm not talking about going apeshit like the first nigger in town with his bright idea; i'm talking about doing it SAFELY FOR YOU.

[Cobalt.45]

My polite suggestion is that they should be moved to forum matters. Although the points made in those threads are self-evident to the members of The Forum that survive for any length of time, some people, who otherwise might be useful in some form or fashion, may miss one or two or most of them.
Thing is, some of the rules should not even be necessary.

That a contributor is required to use basic written English correctly, and write chemical formulas properly (to name two), should be a given.

If it's not, all the imploring in the world will not get the point across, IMHO.

Hey this was just a simple question.

And to Vitalis, i'm not talking about going apeshit like the first nigger in town with his bright idea; i'm talking about doing it SAFELY FOR YOU.
Just as the post above attests.

[Enkidu]

Hey this was just a simple question. And to Vitalis, i'm not talking about going apeshit like the first nigger in town with his bright idea; i'm talking about doing it SAFELY FOR YOU.

Stupid questions do exist, and you just asked one. No one here likes to see stupid questions clutter The Forum.

You will probably be banned for I/i failure and uselessness, as you should be. The title of your thread alone is evidence enough for a ban verdict.

@Cobalt: Yeah, I doubt that this guy in particular would have lasted long in any case, but persons such as Major Havok and tetranitrate3 show at least some signs of usefulness.

[chemdude1999]

Amen Enkidu.

Do we need to go into how this would NOT work?! Go back to TOTSE. CN is dangerous only when it hits acidic materials (i.e., your fucking stomach). It makes HCN which is deadly.

Spraying the shit with a soaker and DMSO? Almonds and pissed off people that smell something fishy. No deaths. But, you will be explaining to the piggies why you have KCN and what you were trying to do. You'll get charged with attempted murder on multiple counts (likely in today's climate).

I work with KCN everyday. It is very predictable and safe. Make AP instead and remember to keep it nice and warm.

Grow the fuck up! NBK probably will just stomp this shit. It isn't even worth eating.

[Vitalis]

Hey this was just a simple question.

And to Vitalis, i'm not talking about going apeshit like the first nigger in town with his bright idea; i'm talking about doing it SAFELY FOR YOU.

Thank GOD you're not a nigger and thank GOD you are thinking of my safety! With people like you looking out for me, I've no worries! :D

If you really want to know what your KCN/DMSO mix will do, mix up a batch and apply a liberal amount to your forearm. If you die too quickly, your plan to spray people and get away with it won't work...

[inventorgp]

Well for a n00b, he sounds like he knows what DMSO could do... and the fact that to think of an idea like that, well, I do think its that "kewlish". A "kewl" would think you can make C4 out of peanut butter and RDX whilst not bothering to question the use of peanut butter as a binder (assuming that "kewl" knows what a binder is). Just my 2 cents...

@Omni: just keep quite for a while, post on threads, not post threads. It might be a good idea to stick to that not to get banned, unless you say something dumb.

@The guys: Well instead of flaming him, you could at least describe the effects of what HCN does to the human body.

[nbk2000]

I like to occasionally let one slip through, so others can have fun swatting the prey around before The Beast devours it. :)

Also, it reminds us that we were all k3wL once...before coming to RS.

[Cobalt.45]

@The guys: Well instead of flaming him, you could at least describe the effects of what HCN does to the human body.
This was not asked by the OP.

While I eschew the all-too-common "UTFSE" reply to every damn thing (does nothing to foster discussion), that question would deserve such a reply.

This guy a friend of yours?

[Omniknight]

Do you know how many results i get when i use DMSO in the search engine ? :rolleyes:

Geebuz, this was just a question because potassium cyanide is known to be lethal, so i was wondering if it could work by making it soak thru the skin with dmso, nothing more.

[Vitalis]

I think it was the way you worded it, walking into a crowd of people with a supersoaker spraying people. It's also seems to be frowned upon here for someone to make their first post a new thread without looking for a suitable existing thread to post in. ;)

[chemdude1999]

SODIUM Cyanide MIGHT dissolve sufficiently enough in DMSO to be carried through the skin. That is a strong might, too. Could you keep the concentration high enough to cause the requisite poisoning? How about the little leaks all over your trigger finger?

I think one would literally need to wash his hands and arms like a surgeon in the stuff to cause ill effects. Hit and miss spraying would not work.

My opinion stands. Stupid idea. No innovation. Reminds me of 1+1 chemistry.

Again KCN is not lethal until it is converted into HCN. Practically, a little bit is always present when working with the salts. Moisture in the air creates a bit, but not enough to cause issues.

Read NBK's pdf if you want to see true diabolical brilliance. Killing is an art to admire and savor even without any intent. Why do you think people are attracted to serial killers and Nazi Germany?

[megalomania]

This is too much :) After I got done laughing, I almost started to regret what it is I came here to do tonight. On the other hand... A few months ago I decided to open up a test section. Lets call it a sociological experiment on a larger scale than when nbk lets these type of threads persist. This might end up one of the first threads.

[chemdude1999]

Oh come on Mega. Maybe we could devise a system of storing hundreds of gallons of DMSO-KCN mix in a sprinkler system. Then, hold a lighter to the sprinkler head and ...

Wait, that means I would get nailed with this amazing death juice, too. Got to think these things through, dammit. :p

[megalomania]

I keep thinking about that bit in the PMJB where he suggests loading a squirt gun with prussic acid to assassinate someone squirting them in the face as you pass by. If Kurt had written that 25 years later maybe he would have suggested a super soaker...

If you actually sprayed someone with DMSO, even diluted, you would instantly have a riot on your hands probably culminating in your ass getting kicked. People will automatically assume the WORST when getting doused with chemical smelling water.

Would the fedgov enact legislation to ban super soaker's, perhaps find Wal-Mart criminally liable for selling these terrorist tools? Perhaps the CPSC will step in and protect us all from the foul weapons of mass destruction these plastic liquid accelerators truly are. A gun does not have to just fire projectiles at the speed of sound right? It has "gun" in the name, surely the Democrats will protect us before we harm ourselves with these guns.

[Bugger]

That reminds me - the chemical composition of "Zyklon B", the poison gas or vapor produced in Germany during the war by I. G. Farben, for use in the gas chambers, to kill Jews, Communists, Socialists, Liberals, Gypsies, Africans, homosexuals, and the mentally or physically disabled, and anyone else with whom Hitler disagreed, was some sort of cyanide. "Zyklon" is German for "cyclone".

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zyklon_B , which however is not authoritative, it "consisted of hydrocyanic acid (prussic acid, Blausäure in German, hence B), a stabilizer, and a warning odorant that were impregnated onto various substrates, typically small absorbent pellets, fiber discs, or diatomaceous earth. It was stored in airtight containers; when exposed to air, the substrates evolved gaseous hydrogen cyanide (HCN)." sic). The article goes on to discuss its history, and uses as a pesticide and war gas.

However, there are alternatives that could have been used, like organic cyanides like methyl cyanide, methyl isocyanate (which caused thousands of deaths in Bhopal, India, when it leaked from an Union Carbide plant, where it was used as a chemical intermediate, in the 1980s), and cyanogen (which is made by decomposition of heavy-metal cyanides, or oxidation of HCN, or reaction of Cu(II) with ionic cyanides, or reaction of N2 with C2H2 under pressure and with electrical sparking, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanogen ).

[meyer25]

Again KCN is not lethal until it is converted into HCN.
No, alkali cyanides are lethal, too. If you inject 10 mg KCN in 1 mL water intravenously to a rabbit of 1 kg BM, it will kill it just as fast as inhaling HCN in high enough concentration would do. HCN is dissociated to 90+% at physiological pH (~ 7.3 - 7.4); the toxicant is the cyanide anion.

However, there are alternatives that could have been used, like organic cyanides like methyl cyanide, methyl isocyanate (which caused thousands of deaths in Bhopal, India, when it leaked from an Union Carbide plant, where it was used as a chemical intermediate, in the 1980s), and cyanogen...
..Yet Zyklon B was liquid hydrogen cyanide, absorbed on an inert carrier. It is still manufactured and distributed (nowadays under the trade name Cyanosil, to omit negative associations with the Holocaust) by the Detia-Degesch GmbH, a successor of the Degesch GmbH, which manufactured and supplied Zyklon B to KL Auschwitz between 1941 - 1944.
As I know two chemists employed in Detia-Degesch, I know for sure that the original Zyklon B composition was not altered after the war whatsoever; it contains, as between 1923 - 1945, liquid HCN of at least 99% purity, stabilized by oxalic acid and tagged by methylbromoacetate as warning irritant. Between 1941 and 1944, Degesch manufactured, in order of the SS, batches of Zyklon B, which were not tagged by the irritant, what the SS claimed to be because of "humanitary reasons"... Well... Hydrogen cyanide without the warning irritant, for humanitary purposes,... I bet the Degesch employees knew what they were actually manufacturing.
However, it was surely hydrogen cyanide.
There was another cyanide composition, used for biocidal purposes, named Zyklon A, which contained, as the active toxicant, methyl cyanoformiate/methyl cyanocarbonate, Me-O-CO-CN, but its manufacture in Germany after WW1 was prohibited by the Versailles Treaty, because of the dual use of the chemical (it was thought to be a potential CW agent...).

[simply RED]

Methyl cyanide, aka acetonitril is not very toxic. I daily use it to dissolve organic chemicals with no precautions...