Anthony
March 17th, 2003, 07:35 PM
DarkAngel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 591
From: ?
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 02, 2001 06:19 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yesterday i whas mixing Kno3+Phosphorus (50/50),,When i light it it gives a large flash with alot of thick white smoke in only a second if i light the Kno3/Suger smoke bomb it burns very slow,I think that you can make a really good smoke granade with this mixture because of the speed that this stuff burns,And maybe you can even make an impact detonator to it so if someone is following you you can throw it on the ground and disappear.
------------------
--==DarkAngel==--
Go to Section1 <a href="http://www.section1.f2s.com" target="_blank">http://www.section1.f2s.com</a> Alot off Bombs/Explosives and Homemade Weapons!!,,,Plus a <<Forum>>!!!
sadsakjoel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 170
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted February 02, 2001 06:39 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sounds good was there as much smoke as kno3/suger? Was it normal phosphorous or red?
------------------
All there is to fear is your own co-ordination
[This message has been edited by sadsakjoel (edited February 02, 2001).]
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 02, 2001 08:10 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not very friendly fumes because it is P2O3 and P2O5 hydratated by the water from the air into H3PO3 and H3PO4...don't breath tooo deeeep ark ark arrrghhhh.................
...
. .
... ...
... ...
. .
. .
. .
. .
I do prefer the caramel smell of suggar CO2 can't arm a lot....
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o )"
DarkAngel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 591
From: ?
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 02, 2001 10:35 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It whas Red Phosphorus,,When i lighted the mixture there whas a large flash + a large cloud of thick white smoke i couldn`t look throug the cloud,,But with Kno3/Suger i can easely look throug it.
Oh yeah i saw on TV that the EOD found a WW2 phosphorus granade some where in Holland,And they say they used it to cover a troop of soldiers so the enemy can`t shoot them,,Then they detonated the bomb(Very Cool)
------------------
--==DarkAngel==--
Go to Section1 <a href="http://www.section1.f2s.com" target="_blank">http://www.section1.f2s.com</a> Alot off Bombs/Explosives and Homemade Weapons!!,,,Plus a <<Forum>>!!!
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2312
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 02, 2001 01:48 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phosphorus is a about a million times the price of sugar...
Availability and stability/sensitivity could also be problems.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 02, 2001 06:12 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with Anthony.
I use KClO3/lactose/napthalene mixtures normally.
sadsakjoel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 170
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted February 02, 2001 08:30 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
did you just mix them together? Was the red Phosphorous extracted from match strikers on the side of boxes?
MacCleod
Frequent Poster
Posts: 215
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 02, 2001 10:34 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr Cool;what ratio do you use for your smoke?.
DarkAngel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 591
From: ?
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 03, 2001 03:53 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sadsakjoel: I have got pure Phosphorus,Jumala have give it to me i dunno how he get`s it.,,,I have left about a photo canister full i will record it on tape later.
------------------
--==DarkAngel==--
Go to Section1 <a href="http://www.section1.f2s.com" target="_blank">http://www.section1.f2s.com</a> Alot off Bombs/Explosives and Homemade Weapons!!,,,Plus a <<Forum>>!!!
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 03, 2001 05:39 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To be honest, I never bother weighing my smoke mixes out. It's roughly equal quantities of KClO3 and lactose, and then the same amount of napthalene (50% nap, 25% KClO3, 25% lactose). I powder it all very fine, and press it together to form a hard lump in my newly completed hydraulic BP press. Any mixture that is oxygen defficient will work.
blackadder
Frequent Poster
Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 03, 2001 07:07 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
While we're talking about phosphorus, when phosphorus burns in oxygen, a reaction takes place (obviously), and the resulting chemical is phosphorus pentoxide, formula is P4O10. With this high conc. of oxygen, surely this can be a bloody powerful oxidizer?
Anyone correct me if I'm wrong with the above stuff.
[This message has been edited by blackadder (edited February 03, 2001).]
Brainmonkey
A new voice
Posts: 37
From: Derry, N. Ireland
Registered: JAN 2001
posted February 03, 2001 10:39 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
it is actually P4o10, it is a great oxidiser, but it is also nasty shit, if u o make it, dont spill it on your hands, whenever i have some, i keep it in a glass jar ( a big winchester, witha wide neck) inside a screw top plastic container, it is really nasty. It is a fantastic oxidiser, ho im not sure about how it reacts witha lot of stuff, explosives wise, i dont think ive ever had the need for that much oxidiser that could either melt or blow my arms off, i actually like having two of them
------------------
ours is not to question why.. ours is but to do and die...
yeah right so whose gonna try and tell me what to do?
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2312
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 03, 2001 04:11 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lactose is a sugar isn't it? Where do you get it in solid form?
MacCleod
Frequent Poster
Posts: 215
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 03, 2001 06:23 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pyro chemical suppliers sell it(Firefox,Pyrotek,etc.).It's $3.95 per lb.at Firefox.I've used napthalene,ammonium chloride,KCl03,charcoal(20/50/20/10)with good results.I'll have to give the lactose mix a try.
[This message has been edited by MacCleod (edited February 03, 2001).]
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2312
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 03, 2001 07:25 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is it wise to mix an ammonium salt with a chlorate? Since ammonium chlorate could form and it is highly unstable.
MacCleod
Frequent Poster
Posts: 215
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 03, 2001 10:42 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I always assumed as much until I bought a formula for white smoke from Firefox which used it;if you buy 10 lb.'s of thier 'metallurgical metal dross'they throw in one of 5 different compositions which it is used in.Here's the recipe they sent:Metallurgical mixture-30%(thermic fuel),Ammonium chloride-30%(smoke),Potassium chlorate-25%(oxidizer),Zinc dust-10%(smoke,ignition),Charcoal,air float-3%(ignition),Sodium bicarbonate-2%(stabilizer).I asked them about it,they said it is very stable,has almost unlimited shelf life-IF you live in a DRY climate area!.I left it sealed in yogurt cups(not air-tight)and after a few months it would harden up like a clump of clay,becoming useless.So I quit buying it!,started trying other formulas.Buying all those seperate chem.'s was too expensive anyway.FYI,thier standard white smoke pre-mix('SDW',$4.95 per lb.) is this same formula.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2312
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 04, 2001 08:25 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah well, you learn soemthing everyday! I'm sure the bi-carb helps but I'd certainly keep it away from moisture though.
Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 765
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 04, 2001 12:19 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It I am using canisters I usually add a bit of Baking Soda(Sodium BiCarbonate, NaHCO3). I find it slows the burn rate down, and decreases the risk of explosions.
When I tried thios formula(or it was quite Similiar);
Napthalene, Ammonium Chloride, KCl03, Charcoal(20/50/20/10), It put off like no smoke. I was very mad; I had purchased a 1Kg of the stuff(KClO3 and NH4Cl) and only had use for The KClO3.
I like a this mix for smoke bombs;
6-KNO3
6-NaNO3
4-Sucrose
4-Charcoal
I recently saw some smoke bombs(Comercial) thats said the contained Hydrated Zinc Chloride(ZnCl2). The work great do and body know how to make this. The Smoke is Cold, and you can hold these in your hand.
Red Phosphorus is realy expenisve; Why would you waste it? Why not use it to supply a drug dealer with Methanphetemines. Then use the cash from that to finance your opperations and toys?
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2312
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 04, 2001 01:36 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Zinc chloride is used in zinc chloride batteries (performance is better than zinc carbon but not as good as alkaline). I suppose you could just add water to it to form hydrated zinc chloride?
Thinking about it, those batteries use zinc metal and a chloride (ammonium IIRC), so would the reaction form zinc chloride?
MacCleod
Frequent Poster
Posts: 215
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 04, 2001 05:52 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey Agent Blak,that's the same formula I use (got it from the Pyrotechnic formulary page,when it was still up!).Wonder why it didn't work?.Where all your chem.'s finely ground?.Also,were you using vol. or weight?.Just wondered.
Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 765
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 05, 2001 08:59 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I ground everything in a Coffee grinder. By the way the ratios I gave for were by volume when I tried it.
So does anybody know how to make those ZnCl2 Smoke Bombs? It say that it is not explosive and non-Toxic. It is initiated by a fuse though.
------------------
A wise man once said:
"... As He Waits For The Time When The Last Become First And,
The First Shall Become last"
--RATM
Agent Blak-------OUT!!
Frequent Poster
Posts: 591
From: ?
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 02, 2001 06:19 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yesterday i whas mixing Kno3+Phosphorus (50/50),,When i light it it gives a large flash with alot of thick white smoke in only a second if i light the Kno3/Suger smoke bomb it burns very slow,I think that you can make a really good smoke granade with this mixture because of the speed that this stuff burns,And maybe you can even make an impact detonator to it so if someone is following you you can throw it on the ground and disappear.
------------------
--==DarkAngel==--
Go to Section1 <a href="http://www.section1.f2s.com" target="_blank">http://www.section1.f2s.com</a> Alot off Bombs/Explosives and Homemade Weapons!!,,,Plus a <<Forum>>!!!
sadsakjoel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 170
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted February 02, 2001 06:39 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sounds good was there as much smoke as kno3/suger? Was it normal phosphorous or red?
------------------
All there is to fear is your own co-ordination
[This message has been edited by sadsakjoel (edited February 02, 2001).]
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 02, 2001 08:10 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not very friendly fumes because it is P2O3 and P2O5 hydratated by the water from the air into H3PO3 and H3PO4...don't breath tooo deeeep ark ark arrrghhhh.................
...
. .
... ...
... ...
. .
. .
. .
. .
I do prefer the caramel smell of suggar CO2 can't arm a lot....
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o )"
DarkAngel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 591
From: ?
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 02, 2001 10:35 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It whas Red Phosphorus,,When i lighted the mixture there whas a large flash + a large cloud of thick white smoke i couldn`t look throug the cloud,,But with Kno3/Suger i can easely look throug it.
Oh yeah i saw on TV that the EOD found a WW2 phosphorus granade some where in Holland,And they say they used it to cover a troop of soldiers so the enemy can`t shoot them,,Then they detonated the bomb(Very Cool)
------------------
--==DarkAngel==--
Go to Section1 <a href="http://www.section1.f2s.com" target="_blank">http://www.section1.f2s.com</a> Alot off Bombs/Explosives and Homemade Weapons!!,,,Plus a <<Forum>>!!!
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2312
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 02, 2001 01:48 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phosphorus is a about a million times the price of sugar...
Availability and stability/sensitivity could also be problems.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 02, 2001 06:12 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with Anthony.
I use KClO3/lactose/napthalene mixtures normally.
sadsakjoel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 170
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted February 02, 2001 08:30 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
did you just mix them together? Was the red Phosphorous extracted from match strikers on the side of boxes?
MacCleod
Frequent Poster
Posts: 215
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 02, 2001 10:34 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr Cool;what ratio do you use for your smoke?.
DarkAngel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 591
From: ?
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 03, 2001 03:53 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sadsakjoel: I have got pure Phosphorus,Jumala have give it to me i dunno how he get`s it.,,,I have left about a photo canister full i will record it on tape later.
------------------
--==DarkAngel==--
Go to Section1 <a href="http://www.section1.f2s.com" target="_blank">http://www.section1.f2s.com</a> Alot off Bombs/Explosives and Homemade Weapons!!,,,Plus a <<Forum>>!!!
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 03, 2001 05:39 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To be honest, I never bother weighing my smoke mixes out. It's roughly equal quantities of KClO3 and lactose, and then the same amount of napthalene (50% nap, 25% KClO3, 25% lactose). I powder it all very fine, and press it together to form a hard lump in my newly completed hydraulic BP press. Any mixture that is oxygen defficient will work.
blackadder
Frequent Poster
Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 03, 2001 07:07 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
While we're talking about phosphorus, when phosphorus burns in oxygen, a reaction takes place (obviously), and the resulting chemical is phosphorus pentoxide, formula is P4O10. With this high conc. of oxygen, surely this can be a bloody powerful oxidizer?
Anyone correct me if I'm wrong with the above stuff.
[This message has been edited by blackadder (edited February 03, 2001).]
Brainmonkey
A new voice
Posts: 37
From: Derry, N. Ireland
Registered: JAN 2001
posted February 03, 2001 10:39 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
it is actually P4o10, it is a great oxidiser, but it is also nasty shit, if u o make it, dont spill it on your hands, whenever i have some, i keep it in a glass jar ( a big winchester, witha wide neck) inside a screw top plastic container, it is really nasty. It is a fantastic oxidiser, ho im not sure about how it reacts witha lot of stuff, explosives wise, i dont think ive ever had the need for that much oxidiser that could either melt or blow my arms off, i actually like having two of them
------------------
ours is not to question why.. ours is but to do and die...
yeah right so whose gonna try and tell me what to do?
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2312
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 03, 2001 04:11 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lactose is a sugar isn't it? Where do you get it in solid form?
MacCleod
Frequent Poster
Posts: 215
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 03, 2001 06:23 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pyro chemical suppliers sell it(Firefox,Pyrotek,etc.).It's $3.95 per lb.at Firefox.I've used napthalene,ammonium chloride,KCl03,charcoal(20/50/20/10)with good results.I'll have to give the lactose mix a try.
[This message has been edited by MacCleod (edited February 03, 2001).]
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2312
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 03, 2001 07:25 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is it wise to mix an ammonium salt with a chlorate? Since ammonium chlorate could form and it is highly unstable.
MacCleod
Frequent Poster
Posts: 215
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 03, 2001 10:42 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I always assumed as much until I bought a formula for white smoke from Firefox which used it;if you buy 10 lb.'s of thier 'metallurgical metal dross'they throw in one of 5 different compositions which it is used in.Here's the recipe they sent:Metallurgical mixture-30%(thermic fuel),Ammonium chloride-30%(smoke),Potassium chlorate-25%(oxidizer),Zinc dust-10%(smoke,ignition),Charcoal,air float-3%(ignition),Sodium bicarbonate-2%(stabilizer).I asked them about it,they said it is very stable,has almost unlimited shelf life-IF you live in a DRY climate area!.I left it sealed in yogurt cups(not air-tight)and after a few months it would harden up like a clump of clay,becoming useless.So I quit buying it!,started trying other formulas.Buying all those seperate chem.'s was too expensive anyway.FYI,thier standard white smoke pre-mix('SDW',$4.95 per lb.) is this same formula.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2312
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 04, 2001 08:25 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah well, you learn soemthing everyday! I'm sure the bi-carb helps but I'd certainly keep it away from moisture though.
Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 765
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 04, 2001 12:19 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It I am using canisters I usually add a bit of Baking Soda(Sodium BiCarbonate, NaHCO3). I find it slows the burn rate down, and decreases the risk of explosions.
When I tried thios formula(or it was quite Similiar);
Napthalene, Ammonium Chloride, KCl03, Charcoal(20/50/20/10), It put off like no smoke. I was very mad; I had purchased a 1Kg of the stuff(KClO3 and NH4Cl) and only had use for The KClO3.
I like a this mix for smoke bombs;
6-KNO3
6-NaNO3
4-Sucrose
4-Charcoal
I recently saw some smoke bombs(Comercial) thats said the contained Hydrated Zinc Chloride(ZnCl2). The work great do and body know how to make this. The Smoke is Cold, and you can hold these in your hand.
Red Phosphorus is realy expenisve; Why would you waste it? Why not use it to supply a drug dealer with Methanphetemines. Then use the cash from that to finance your opperations and toys?
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2312
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 04, 2001 01:36 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Zinc chloride is used in zinc chloride batteries (performance is better than zinc carbon but not as good as alkaline). I suppose you could just add water to it to form hydrated zinc chloride?
Thinking about it, those batteries use zinc metal and a chloride (ammonium IIRC), so would the reaction form zinc chloride?
MacCleod
Frequent Poster
Posts: 215
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 04, 2001 05:52 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey Agent Blak,that's the same formula I use (got it from the Pyrotechnic formulary page,when it was still up!).Wonder why it didn't work?.Where all your chem.'s finely ground?.Also,were you using vol. or weight?.Just wondered.
Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 765
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 05, 2001 08:59 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I ground everything in a Coffee grinder. By the way the ratios I gave for were by volume when I tried it.
So does anybody know how to make those ZnCl2 Smoke Bombs? It say that it is not explosive and non-Toxic. It is initiated by a fuse though.
------------------
A wise man once said:
"... As He Waits For The Time When The Last Become First And,
The First Shall Become last"
--RATM
Agent Blak-------OUT!!