Armored Bobcat

[nbk2000]

Anyone who was around from '00 may remember an idea I posted about, using a bobcat skidsteer with tracks, as the basis for a DIY armor vehicle for use in urban combat.

Well...

http://www.lascointl.com/images/taccat2.gif

Full-size flyer here:

http://www.armor-pdi.com/contents/flier%20tac%20cat.jpg

As usual, someone is profiting off of my ideas, even if they came up with them on their own, simply because they already had the money to do so. :(

[sparkchaser]

The army's been doing the same thing for decades with full sized cats. Google ACE (army combat earth mover). This is just an extension of it it seems.

[LibertyOrDeath]

Some may remember this story from '04 about a homemade tank constructed from a bulldozer:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/Central/06/05/bulldozer.rampage/index.html

A web search of +"homemade tank" +bulldozer turns up a lot more links about it.

The armor was concrete sandwiched between two steel plates. The pigs tried to use breaching charges to penetrate it and failed. :)

Who knows? Maybe he got the idea from NBK. Anyway, it worked pretty well until the guy shot himself.

EDIT: Oops, I just scrolled down and saw that there was a Watercooler thread on this news story, but I can't delete this post. Mods, please remove this post if it just wastes space. Thanks.

[nbk2000]

Actually, the best term to use to find that is 'Killdozer'.

[Hirudinea]

I always thought a good urban armoured vehicle would be an ontos http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontos
with the recoilless rifles replaced by some type of gatling gun like the GAU 12 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAU-12_Equalizer
that would give the ragheads somthing to think about. ;)

[nbk2000]

And where are we going to find 8 RR's and a GAU-12?

The version shown in the OP is something that can be replicated by anyone with some money for the components, all of which are commercially available here in the US.

[LibertyOrDeath]

Regarding the Bobcat, a covering of AR500 (AR = "abrasion resistant") steel should work very well. It would stop many repeat hits from most rifle rounds. Handgun, subgun, and typical shotgun rounds would be a joke.

AR500 (and lesser grades of steel such as AR400) is often used in steel firearms targets. (This might also provide a good excuse for purchase: you're setting up a shooting range.) The thickness used for that purpose is often 3/8 inch. It's supposed to be capable of enduring a lot of hits from some very powerful rifles -- although the target is allowed to swing with impact, thus lessening some of the damage. Perhaps 1/2 inch thickness would be a better choice.

It could be objected that steel targets generally aren't shot with rifles from fairly close ranges, as could be the case if using an armored vehicle. However, many rifle rounds take some time to stabilize and thus have optimum penetration quite some distance from the barrel. For example, a 5.56 shot from a 20" barrel penetrates best at around 200 yards. So, if AR500 can handle a lot of shots at 200 yards, it should be able to handle them from lesser distances.

Cost would be an issue for some (certainly for me). But I imagine that anyone who's willing to fork over the money for a Bobcat or similar vehicle could also spend another few thousand for the AR steel.

[monkeyboy]

could also spend another few thousand for the AR steelI wonder if you could get the same effect with normal plate & running stringer beads with a hard surfacing welding rod?

[LibertyOrDeath]

monkeyboy: I wasn't too sure what you were referring to, not being very familiar with welding myself. So I found this article:

http://www.hobartbrothers.com/aboutus/hard_surfacing-2/

From what's written there, it seems that the technique you describe is primarily intended to increase the plate's resistance to surface abrasion by texturing the metal surface. But perhaps it could help to break up bullets more easily upon impact -- I'm not clear on that. Could you perhaps elaborate a bit on your idea? It sounds interesting.

[monkeyboy]

Hard surfacing involves the deposition of special alloys on a metallic part, using various welding processes, to obtain more durable wear properties. Hard surfacing can increase equipment’s resistance to abrasion and impact, and in some cases, specialized hard surfacing alloys provide even greater resistance than the original part.

Understanding welding rod specs:
Typical Electrode Classification
This example is for "low hydrogen", potassium-bearing iron powder electrode suitable for welding mild steel with both AC and DC electrode positive current. Using a similar system, other shielded metal arc electrodes, solid and cored welding wires, submerged arc flux/wire combinations and other types of welding consumables are also classified.

E 70 1 8
Electrode Tensile Strength Position Flux Coating & Current

* The "E" designates that this is an electrode as opposed to a rod or flux.
* The "70" describes the minimum tensile strength as 70 ksi, in this case, stated in US customary units. If this designation had been in metric SI units, the classification would be E4918.
* The next digit indicates the general usability of the electrode classification. The "1" identifies that this electrode can be used for welding in all positions.
* Lastly the "8" signifies the type of flux coating and current type/polarity applicable.

Most commonly used rod is 6010/6011 or 7018 (60-70K lbs)
My understanding is that even commonly used rod is harder/tougher than base metal.
Hard surfacing rod is available up to 250-300K lbs, with 90-110K lbs being more common.

Not only is it used to build up digging / drilling surfaces, but it is also used to build up things like bearings, crankshafts, crane wheels & pulleys.
Plate or cast surfaces that have metal to stone / metal to metal contact, but would be impractical to make from a forging. So hard surfacing makes them more abrasion / wear / impact resistant.

[Hirudinea]

And where are we going to find 8 RR's and a GAU-12?

The version shown in the OP is something that can be replicated by anyone with some money for the components, all of which are commercially available here in the US.

Oh sorry, I just thought we were blue skying. :o

But if you had the money you could use a half-dozen .50 M2 machine guns mounted externally and fired from the cabin with solinoid activated triggers.

I don't know what exactly you'ed have to go thorugh to get them but I have seen people in the U.S. who do own semi-auto M2s on TV.

[Tinton]

The youtube link has video of the rampage, and the cops attempts at stopping it. And the second link has pictures of the vehicle and some of the damage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqpxeWQ_XJw

http://www.tcnj.edu/~hofmann/Granby/Granby.htm

In the video, police officers are shooting at the bulldozer, 3 or 4 officers with assualt rifles opening fire, yet the bullets don't do anything. You think any normal person would figure out that if 3 or 4 rounds don't penetrate what your shooting at, the rest of your magazine won't either.

Near the end of the video, they show the interior of the tank, and apparently the guy had what looked like an oxygen tank, and a sniper rifle poking out the armor; yet nowhere in the video did he use it.

Personally, I'm not so intent on staying in one place, in a 60 ton vehicle, surrounded by police officers. Its much easier and more effective to pull a "vietcong" and escape down a tunnel to safety.

[Jacks Complete]

Killdozer!!

He fired the .50 at the town's gas tanks, rather than at any people. He killed himself, and the SWAT guys used all the explosive they had to get the door open.

The reason the vehicle failed was because he covered over the radiator system, so it all overheated. Yes, it is a 60 ton "tank" but, in fact, it was 60 ton before he added the extra steel and concrete, so it was probably right up near the maximum it would comfortably travel with, and he covered the radiator (or, possibly, it got holed by a bullet) and so it overheated.

What tickles me the most is that half the town knew what he was doing, and why!

Tinton, adding an escape route wouldn't be trivial, but it is also not impossible. Make a tunnel ready, add a microcontroller to send the tank on it's merry way when you press the button, and add a trap below you so you can scarper down it and out. Tricky, mind you. Mis-time it and it'll be obvious, or you'll get cut in half by your own toy, or even worse, the tunnel will collapse. On your head.

[megalomania]

If you can afford a killdozer you can likely afford an airplane or ultralight to use as an escape route. Even a remotely detonated charge under a manhole cover can give you access to the sewers. You must plan for a sewer evacuation route beforehand. Have the charge in place, know they way to get away, have some way to block it when you jump in, etc.

[Hirudinea]

Well if you have the know how why not just make the Killdozer a remote control job? If you connected your computer control to a cell phone, of course you would need video feedback, you could operate it from anywhere in the world, why worry about an escape plan when your 10,000 miles away playing your "video game" on a beach somewhere?

[megalomania]

There might be a reason the US Army does not use remote controlled tanks. I am sure they might worry about jamming devices and electronic countermeasures on the battlefield, but I feel there might be no substitute for actually being in the cockpit.

[Hirudinea]

There might be a reason the US Army does not use remote controlled tanks. I am sure they might worry about jamming devices and electronic countermeasures on the battlefield, but I feel there might be no substitute for actually being in the cockpit.

On the battlefield remote controlled tanks would have countermeasures deployed against them, because enemy forces would have inteligence about them, but for a one off killdozer you could get away with it because of the element of surprise.

As for being in the cockpit, well of course it is better, for control purposes, but for escaping its sheer suicide, if you want to live after a rampage with a killdozer the best place to be is as far away from the killdozer as you can get. Why do you think the U.S. government uses multi-million dollar crusie missles and terrorists use suicide bombers, one value life more than money and other have more fanatics than cash.

[Jacks Complete]

Absolutely right, Hirudinea.

That's why some call the current conflicts between the USA and everyone else a conflict of ideologies. Far easier to say it is about religion than (the value of) life, though.

As regards the risk of jamming, it is low, but it isn't that far fetched to think that the police would be thinking along those lines after a few minutes. The FSB turned off the GSM network during that Chechen theatre crisis, and the UK police have jammers (I believe) and they definately have the ability to track a signal through triangulation. Odds are you would get away with it the first time, for a few hours at least.

It's not just man-made jammers you need to worry about, though. Line of sight with a good dish will get you a long way, but a tree will stop you dead. Or a shot to an aerial. Or a GPS "Urban canyon" or a GSM tower falling down when you level the signpost it is hidden in.

Personally, as I suggested in another thread, I think you should prepare your systems, then have them stand ready. The day a viable AI comes out, you download the torrent, install it on the hardware that is warm and waiting on your 'dozer, and send it on it's AI controlled way. If fact, since you have saved up, you send 4 of them, and the 5th one is controlled (at least partly) by you. Imagine the havoc!

[Hirudinea]

Absolutely right, Hirudinea.

That's why some call the current conflicts between the USA and everyone else a conflict of ideologies. Far easier to say it is about religion than (the value of) life, though.

Religions generally contain the core values of their societies, or shape them.

As regards the risk of jamming, it is low, but it isn't that far fetched to think that the police would be thinking along those lines after a few minutes. The FSB turned off the GSM network during that Chechen theatre crisis, and the UK police have jammers (I believe) and they definately have the ability to track a signal through triangulation. Odds are you would get away with it the first time, for a few hours at least.

Sure, the authorities would figure your scam out after a while, you could spoof them with a dummy in the vehicle, that could make them not think of a remote system, but with an attack like this you shouldn't plan it to go over a few hours, plan your attack and do your damage quick, and you might want to load your vehicle with high explosives, so when your attack is over or your signal cut off you can go out with a bang.

It's not just man-made jammers you need to worry about, though. Line of sight with a good dish will get you a long way, but a tree will stop you dead. Or a shot to an aerial. Or a GPS "Urban canyon" or a GSM tower falling down when you level the signpost it is hidden in.

You should deal with that in your pre-planing, drive the attack route before with your cell-phone to see where low signal areas are and avoid them, also see if you can find where all the cell sites are, planing is the key to success.

Personally, as I suggested in another thread, I think you should prepare your systems, then have them stand ready. The day a viable AI comes out, you download the torrent, install it on the hardware that is warm and waiting on your 'dozer, and send it on it's AI controlled way. If fact, since you have saved up, you send 4 of them, and the 5th one is controlled (at least partly) by you. Imagine the havoc!

Well the U.S. army is working on autonomus vehicles, and most of them seem to use off the shelf equipment, when they get it right there will be a hacker version made, and with that you could have battalions of killdozers, all you'ed need is the money. :D

[ChippedHammer]

A web controlled killdozer, I could level my town and every pig while sitting on the other side of the world. If I loose contact with it, it automatically drives its self to the nearest building and self destructs.

A man can only dream :)

[nbk2000]

The annoying thing about a lot of the juicy targets is that a killdozer, just isn't going to be able to get to them, because of stand-off barriers, unless huge enough to crush or push them aside.

Now something smaller, like these mini-track loaders, could drive right in through the cripple ramp.

http://www.kensalrental.com/Twin_Mini_Loader_PIC.jpg

With a carrying capacity of over 800 pounds, you could have a 55 gallon drum filled with HE goodness on the front-end and take care of things from the INSIDE, rather than the distant outside. MUCH more effective that way.

[Jacks Complete]

Hirudinea: I doubt you could drive the exact course of your plan, since you are going to be knocking down buildings and will have things like trucks and cars in the way (things that are there on the day, that weren't there on the pre-plan) as well as things that are there to stop you once things kick off.

The odds of your machine being crippled when a building falls on it are quite high, and it is also likely to fall down into a cellar, as it will weigh at least 3 tonnes, far more than the floor loading of a house even before you knock a wall down!

NBK: And you wouldn't find many doors that could stop that, even if they were locked. Heck, even a wall made of good bricks wouldn't stop it, as long as the rest of the wall falling on it didn't disable it. With a few mods, like a big spike (like fangs) instead of a complete bucket, to be better for spearing things in the way and lifting them, as well as the armour, etc.

The only downside is that the smaller machine will not have nearly the load carrying ability of a larger one.

Of course, the perfect answer to this is to get yourself a robot that would be capable of installation in the existing machine. You can think of a humanoid robot if you like, or you can be more realistic with an array of locking joints and activating rams.

Once you have several of these, it would be almost trivial to break into a yard, fit out a small fleet of these, and then carry on as you see fit.

The main issue I can see is that without some form of AI or a group of trusted (VERY trusted!) people to drive the other machines, people who would have to be at least fairly intelligent, and have the same goals as you, your fleet would be very vulnerable, as your attention went from one target to another.

Using something like Red Alert 2 teaches you how hard it is to coordinate an attack with multiple units at the same time, even with a basic 2D world that is fairly passive and an AI to assist with routes and the like. In the real world, you will need a human or a human-level AI. Both are hard to come by!

[Hirudinea]

Hirudinea: I doubt you could drive the exact course of your plan, since you are going to be knocking down buildings and will have things like trucks and cars in the way (things that are there on the day, that weren't there on the pre-plan) as well as things that are there to stop you once things kick off.

The odds of your machine being crippled when a building falls on it are quite high, and it is also likely to fall down into a cellar, as it will weigh at least 3 tonnes, far more than the floor loading of a house even before you knock a wall down!

Well I'll admit there are chances a remote controled killdozer could be crippled, lose signal, or get screwed up in some other way but as you've said the best way to drive the killdozer would be with an AI, but we don't have that yet, and since I'm to squemish to drive one myself remote control seems the best way to do drive the darned think with available technology and not getting killed. :o

The annoying thing about a lot of the juicy targets is that a killdozer, just isn't going to be able to get to them, because of stand-off barriers, unless huge enough to crush or push them aside.

Now something smaller, like these mini-track loaders, could drive right in through the cripple ramp.

With a carrying capacity of over 800 pounds, you could have a 55 gallon drum filled with HE goodness on the front-end and take care of things from the INSIDE, rather than the distant outside. MUCH more effective that way.

Sounds like a special delivery I really wouldn't want to get.

[c.Tech]

One wouldn't spend their money on a remote control killdozer and forget a backup system if the first is taken out or fails.

If they turn off the cell towers, make sure you have a GPS system ready, or a strong remote signal connected to a wireless internet connection. Connect to that through a proxy and wish them luck tracking you.

This is starting to remind me of an old British show, a few ideas could come from some designs throughout the series. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuB3PyjHQFE

If all else is secure with the plan of multiple machines on a kill and/or destroy mission the last thought would be to protect them from EMP weaponry, if possible.

[Hirudinea]

One wouldn't spend their money on a remote control killdozer and forget a backup system if the first is taken out or fails.

If they turn off the cell towers, make sure you have a GPS system ready, or a strong remote signal connected to a wireless internet connection. Connect to that through a proxy and wish them luck tracking you.

Yep, thats part of the planing, plan a, plan b, plan c.

If all else is secure with the plan of multiple machines on a kill and/or destroy mission the last thought would be to protect them from EMP weaponry, if possible.

I don't think many militaries have access to EMP weapons, never mind the cops, and besides, it would take time to get ahold of EMP weapons, hopefully you've blown up your target(s) by then.

[Alexires]

Another thing to consider would be other types on construction equipment, for instance armoured forklifts, cement mixers, cranes, trucks, etc.

I was just thinking of forklifts for the moment. As opposed to a Bobcat that you might need to change the front end on to replace the scooper, just use one of those heavy lifting forklifts. Weigh it up with some armour, sharpen up the skids, and you instantly have a machine of destruction. Armour for protection (duh) and also to weigh the forklift down so that it can tip over cars, vans, trucks, carry things in and out, and sharpened skids to puncture walls, people, piggie vans, etc.

Also, a cement mixer (perhaps just a small one) could carry some quantity of liquid explosive, and it would also need to be able to carry all that cement, so some armour plating wouldn't effect it much.

Extremely funny idea: make the tube that guides the cement remote controllable so that you can control it from wherever you are. Lower it and back it into a building. Dump all the explosive in there and then a det. and drive off, activating it at a safe distance (for you. You are in an armoured cement mixer after all).

[kaiserbill]

Going over the initial part of this thread regarding armour protection of improvised armoured vehicles, perhaps it is better to achieve ballistic protection more subtly than the brute application of thick slabs of toughened steel.

The Rhodesians in the 1970's had a particular problem as they had sanctions against them. They lacked adequate foreign reserves to purchase armour plate en-masse from South Africa. Their solution was to utilize mild steel plate angled sufficiently to cause deflections. They applied this to their home built Crocodile APC with surprisingly good results. It wasn't the perfect answer, as a weighty volume of fire might perhaps have weakened parts of the plate for subsequent rounds to penetrate.

A better solution was a vehicle called the Kudu. This had a mild steel plate body that was surrounded by many mild steel plates, or slats. These were positioned 150mm (6 inches) from the main body and angled considerably to function as bullet tumblers. To my knowledge there were never any penetrations of this vehicle, even whilst facing AK-47 armour piercing rounds. I have a picture at home should anyone have any interest in viewing it.

So perhaps with a little smart engineering and ingenuity, good results can be achieved at much lower cost and weight. I'm not suggesting that it could face an armoured marine column though...

[monkeyboy]

Thanks, KaiserBill. Went looking for the vehicles you mentioned & found a couple of most interesting websites:
http://www.sfu.ca/casr/id-blast-resistant-vehicles-1.htm
(5 pages total)

http://www.mazoe.com/echoesarmouredvehicles.html

[Mr Science]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=311_1191359607
I found this and immediately thought of this thread.

"On June 4, 2004, Marvin Heemeyer, a local businessman and skilled welder, used a 50-ton Komatsu D335A bulldozer he had custom armor-plated to damage or destroy several buildings in the town, including its town hall, the public library, a bank, a concrete batch plant, and a house owned by the town's former mayor. Heemeyer was reportedly upset over a zoning dispute which he believed led to the closure of his muffler shop; he targeted buildings owned by those involved in his dispute. Nobody was injured in the incident, though Heemeyr later committed suicide."

And this is a video of the guy going around wrecking various buildings. :-D

+++++++++

This video is of the Killdozer. NBK

[panzerkampfwagen]

If you really want very, very strong armor with low weight (and you don't mind adding a few more felonies to your tab if you get caught), you could just use any dark material that blocks the driver from view and then strap hostages to the sides. Seriously, six to eight (skinny) people are definitely lighter than armor, and no police officer (except in maybe Russia or Israel) would shoot through innocent civilians. Using tracks instead of wheels would eliminate the threat of spike strips, the only weapon that the police have that would not kill the people on the outside. As far as weapons go, I would use either an automatic softball launcer that shoots softballs filled with either thermate, WP, or some other imaginative but simple pyrotechnic mixture. Or, for a barrel of laughs, fill two large pipes with KMgO4 and glycerine, respetively. The barrels can be evacuated by using the hydraulic cylinders that move the bucket up and down to build up the pressure until it exceeds the strength of whatever you are using to cover the barrels. Line them up right and you could have a "safety flamethrower" that only lights on fire at some predetermined distance from the vehicle.

[nbk2000]

That suggestion reminds me of a vehicle from Mad Max 2:

http://www.madmaxmovies.com/cars/madmax2/F100/F100Humungous.jpg

:)

[ChippedHammer]

Only problem is when you crash your 'armored' vehicle and mangle and kill your new fangled 'armor'. I'm sure the cops wont mind shooting then.
Interesting idea nonetheless.

[Hirudinea]

If you really want very, very strong armor with low weight (and you don't mind adding a few more felonies to your tab if you get caught), you could just use any dark material that blocks the driver from view and then strap hostages to the sides. Seriously, six to eight (skinny) people are definitely lighter than armor, and no police officer (except in maybe Russia or Israel) would shoot through innocent civilians.

That could work, but firstly, you'd need to fit the hostages in such a way that they themselves didn't know that the vehicle was unmanned while on its mission, and secondly you'd still need to armor certain parts of the vehicle, such as the engine, gas tank, drivers/control compartment, to keep a snipper from getting a lucky shot, but hostages aren't a bad idea, until you smash through a building and mash your armor.

[nbk2000]

If your vehicle normally has a man in the machine, and you're operating it by remote, you can put the fuel-tank in where the man would normally be, and armor that section.

Ever seen 'Hell Raiser'? I'm thinking barbed chains that shoot out into the herd of frightened sheeple, that reels them in and wraps 'em up around your killdozer, shedding off the dead ones like so much dandruff. Self-renewing organic armor! :p

[Hirudinea]

If your vehicle normally has a man in the machine, and you're operating it by remote, you can put the fuel-tank in where the man would normally be, and armor that section.

Thats a good idea, the cops would expect the operator cabin to be armoured, so putting your fuel in their wouldn't be suspicious, also you could leave the original fuel tank exposed, but filled with sand, as a decoy for smartass snipers.

Ever seen 'Hell Raiser'? I'm thinking barbed chains that shoot out into the herd of frightened sheeple, that reels them in and wraps 'em up around your killdozer, shedding off the dead ones like so much dandruff. Self-renewing organic armor!

All I remember from that is Pinhead (he must be so good at neddlepoint :) ) but that sounds like an interesting idea, if you could figure it out, or mabye just paint tho killdozer like an Ice Cream truck and you'ed be surrounded by kiddies, no cop would shoot through that! :D

[nbk2000]

A 2-man micro-tank prototype from WW1.

http://www.anonib.com/_roguesci/images/109/Micro_Tank_anonib.jpg

[Jacks Complete]

^- I'll take two!

It says they were armed with a single Browning MG, but the muzzle looks more like a 4 pounder or something. I'd also stay away from soft ground, as those tracks are too narrow!

Strapping hostages to the outside would be pointless IMO. They would be a liability more than anything, and, if it goes wrong, and your machine breaks down 50 yards out, you are still looking at multiple life sentences, rather than perhaps talking your way out of it, or only getting 10 years. Also, if one or more could ID you, you are taking a huge risk! Don't forget that a lot of people have mobile phones that take pictures, and the records from just the phone GPRS location data would probably be enough to trap you from, as it is non-trivial to kidnap ten people.

Back-up systems are essential for this device. I'd also point out that you are removing the driver, so you could easily change the shape of the machine quite a lot, like reduce the height and or width.

As regards the mass of armour, these machines carry a lot of mass anyway, so a few tonnes of steel wouldn't do a lot to the bigger ones, not at all. Smaller ones might feel the strain, though. However, since there is no vital human target to hit, you can fill cavities with foam, rather than concrete, as the shot penetration would be hidden by that, and as long as it was opaque, no-one would be able to tell the "heavy steel and concrete" armour they are shooting at is actually only a few mm thick and foam filled, and weighing in at a tiny fraction of the real stuff.

[paul88]

Someone once suggested using hard ceramic tiles, layered and angeled on each other for a temporary like armor. Would this work as a light temporary armor by chance?

[Kaydon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JNy0ltovis Video of the M1918 Mini-Tank.

If only it were possible to wrap a vehicle in a couple layers of Dragon Skin body armor, on Future Weapons they demonstrated that particular armor withstanding a grenade blast. The vest was placed ontop of a grenade and weights ontop the vest.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=gNY1MtsVwG8]
http://youtube.com/watch?v=KS0pSwdQfbY

[Zait]

If only it were possible to wrap a vehicle in a couple layers of Dragon Skin body armor, on Future Weapons they demonstrated that particular armor withstanding a grenade blast. The vest was placed ontop of a grenade and weights ontop the vest.

Unfortunately that isn't a "real" fragmentation grenade. If you look closely you will see that it is a blue practice grenade that is completely different from an actual M67.

[HypocriticalBuddhist]

Armored Unimog? I bet you could modify one of the attachments with a hydraulic arm to be a remote controlled minigun.

[krysthegreek]

A v-shaped hull would do a lot to divert any explosive force underneath your vehicle, as is becoming increasingly common in the middle east with roadside bombings( which might make a bottom escape hatch difficult ). The Rhodesians picked up on this in the late 60s, but some companies have implemented the same ideas into vehicles today.

http://www.forceprotectioninc.com/about/vehicles.html

Sure, they're pretty pricey for you or me, but if the idea works, why not steal the same technology that could very well be used to protect SWAT teams?

And for those that are curious, here are some vehicle specs for most commonly used construction equipment in the US (stuff like weight, size, power, etc.).

http://www.myuniverse.us/construction/specs-construction.asp

[monkeyboy]

The DOD just came out with their remote control toy, they call it "the Crusher"
http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=52793

[Barnacles]

Personally I have thought about this idea and the feasibility of some guerrilla group using these in urban operations, and came to the conclusion that they would be a waste of material,money, and manpower. My reasoning is as follows, I will state it in a rough point form.

Any armour a Guerrilla has will be the first target of an army operating against it. Tanks are tough to use in a non-organized manner. Tanks are to take over the battlefield and retain power in that area, Alot of its use is to sit it somewhere and just have it dominate. No way a guerrilla will want that. It's not something you can drive around in at will wherever you want, you wont be able to just bring it from city to city to use in battle or anything like that. Just for the sake of argument lets say you managed to use it in a battle without air support or antitank destroying you, try getting it out of that area. Its not like its concealable, or you could drive through the roadblocks set up everywhere else.

Guerrilla forces do not want to be trapped or stuck anywhere, their mobility and escape is essential to their operations. I know for one I would never sit in one because whoever drove it would most likely die. To me it would just seem like an expensive and well armoured coffin.

The only time I could see it as being advantageous to use is if you are not afraid to die and put it in some type of brick house (not necessary but gives extra armour) and just sit inside the tank and have a shootout with your enemy until they blow up up with an airstrike or antitank rocket.

In summation I would rather keep the material to make personal armoured vests (think metal plate inserts), and the money to procure other materials for the good fight. Or some sort of mini-safe room.

[gaussincarnate]

It does seem like an assured suicide mission, but if you have the resources and someone crazy enough (as in suicidal), it could be a perfectly viable distraction weapon. It would take quite some time for the National Guard to be deployed, and there is no way that the police could stop anything like that, especially if it has an air filter to keep out CS and other nasties.

Once people started getting shot, you would occupy nearly the entire police force, leaving whatever you wanted to attack vulnerable. I would suggest deploying it relatively close to where you are operating so that any stray gunshots from your main operation would be less likely to be noticed. It would also be advisable to choose a time and place that would cause the most chaos, perhaps as some school lets out. All you would have to do is drive in with anything even remotely dangerous looking and people would run, chaos ensuing.

Come to thing of it, if you had all kinds of money to throw away, the most amusing design for this would be a wheat thresher with CS canisters. Looks scary and burns your lungs, how much better could it get? That and as long as no one is dumb enough to get ran over, no one would be killed by this, so even if the operation is botched, the consequences are severely reduced.

[Barnacles]

It does seem like an assured suicide mission, but if you have the resources and someone crazy enough

When you mentioned this I realized one good use for suicide attack would be suicide car bomb, try to stop the driver by shooting him lol with armor around him, they wouldnt be able to disable tires or engine or any needed components if they were armoured appropriately also. Short of an airstrike land mine or antitank rocket nothing could stop this suicide car bomb from hitting its target, even better if it was remote.

[Charles Owlen Picket]

The car/truck bomb concept has been put out of business decades ago via the zig-zag approach-way beyond the blast zone. Tank traps stop vehicles very well. Concrete emplacements cannot be driven over, forced slow approaches defeat ramming; perimeter security is a science and an art. There are great chess players that live for this stuff and are in positions to implement counter measures for any idea that may affect safety and security of established entities. It's not as easy as it may appear at first blush.

Most people have tried to play chess with themselves at some point in their lives. It's tough because they (even subconsciously) strive harder for one side than another. After a time, if they really do their best for both sides; it's almost always a stalemate.

[Hirudinea]

The car/truck bomb concept has been put out of business decades ago via the zig-zag approach-way beyond the blast zone. Tank traps stop vehicles very well. Concrete emplacements cannot be driven over, forced slow approaches defeat ramming; perimeter security is a science and an art... It's not as easy as it may appear at first blush.

An interesting attack would be to use a pick-up equipped with jump ramp and a suicide bomber with 60-70 lbs of high explosive on a motorcycle. The bike would hit the ramp at high speed and jump the obsticles, exploding when it impacts. Sure it would be inaccurate but it would do some damage (hopefully.)

[James]

About twelve years ago I got a vague Idea for a hopefully non blockable, mostly non traceable distance independant communications system. Essentialy the rig uses a pair or quantum entangled things to try and send variable levels of light unidirectionally. I've just never bothered to figure out how to build the thing.
Back on topic: IIRC there are roughly two means of controlling rigs. a rotating steering wheel or a couple steering levers (controlling tracks) plus miscelania like a throttle, choke, transmission, whatever. I'm thinking one could probably rig up some generic servos in rigs that could pretty much be bolted on to a heavy machine to control it.

[Jacks Complete]

Using a full-on bulldozer packed with explosive, and running remotely, you could commit the ultimate in ram-raids. Use the super-heavy to clear a path through any obstruction, or through the buildings next to any obstruction.

Anti-tank girder structures are designed to capture the front of the tank, and to stall it from lifting over the obstacle. A digger doesn't have that issue. Likewise, a deep pit or a hemicylinder roadblock can simply be filled with rubble or earth with the dozer blade, allowing passage to following vehicles.

Charges could be set on the outside of the vehicle, and the main charge inside. You level the buildings, rather than using explosives, and get far more destruction. You are less likely to kill anyone, too. Then, once the vehicle is disabled, you detonate the main charge when you feel like it.

It a non-military situation, the explosives they dropped from the air or whatever would be very likely to do as much damage as the vehicle itself, if you armour it right. If you use the electric defence system to stop small shaped charge weapons, then you are fine until they bring in heavy weapons that are not man-portable. And can you imagine the carnage from hitting it with a tank main gun from 200yards in a city? The shell would probably go three blocks through houses once out the other side! :D

[gaussincarnate]

I happen to be partial to the ditch digging machines with the gigantic chainsaws on the front. They are usually used for digging long, narrow ditches in concrete for sewer pipes and such. They may not be able to cause quite as much damage as a bulldozer or front-end loader could, but they are much more intimidating. They should be able to do much more damage to hardened concrete and such, allowing you to disable bridges and roads. If you could get one of front-end loaders with the giant chainsaw thing on the back, you could really have some fun. I would imagine that it would be kind of hard to hide while you are working on it, though.

[festergrump]

Those Ditch Witch "chainsaw looking" trenching tools won't do much to concrete. They're not made for that. They are slow, dull, and just generally not up to the task despite their menacing appearance. They disrupt compacted earth and clay and remove it form the blade's path to lay cable and pipe but that's about it, and they do this well, for that's what they were designed to do and no more. Concrete is broken up or cut out with other tools before this tool is even thought about. Sorry to burst the bubble.

[sbovisjb1]

Its a good idea. But considerations as fuel and ammunition have to be taken. I really should show this to my uncle as he has a few bobcats lying around and he is an engineer with past specializations in armored vehicles.