How much can I get legally?

[art_051]

hi ...
sorry if this has been posted before but I have looked and haven't found this question ...
i was wondering how much KNO3 i could buy from the internet without it being illegal ...like how much could i get away with buying without braking laws or raising suspicion ??..
because i want to make some smoke bombs... just for setting of in the garden ...
p.s thanks in advance for any help

[rangegal]

KNO3 isn't really restricted much IIRC, it's just a fertilizer, and can't really be used as a high explosive as some other fertilizers can, so theres not much stigma attached to it. You can still buy KNO3 at the hardware store as stump remover, but I've never seen pure AN at the hardware store.

I think you're set to buy as much as you want.

Are your smoke bombs an attempt to rid off some pests in your garden? Because you can buy pre-made things like that to kill gophers and such.

But if you just want to make KN/SU, you should start making rockets. They are alot more fun than smoke bombs.

[nbk2000]

If you buy enough at one time, you get a free trip to Guantanamo Bay, where you can enjoy the warm Cuban sun...if you ever get out of your cage to see it. :)

Unfortunately, you've failed the literacy test required to qualify. :(

[tmp]

Never heard of or ever had a problem buying it. Although if you buy too much
and the supplier suspects you, count on your name being turned over to the
3-letter agencies of the U.S. for "suspected terrorist activities". This
happened to a guy in New York who was buying chemicals for resale on eBay.
The BATFE didn't press charges but New York State Authorities did with
catch-all "reckless endangerment" charges. Some stupid shit eh ? How many
of us could face charges like this ? So, be careful !

http://blog.silive.com/advanceupdate/2007/06/feds_find_huge_stash_of_chemic.html

[megalomania]

KNO3 sales are not restricted, but they are watched. Sodium, potassium, and ammonium nitrate are all watched by the FBI. Calcium nitrate is not watched for some reason. The FBI put out a pamphlet and an advisory several years ago that explains this. You might be able to find the advisory somewhere on the FBI website, I think the BATF has a copy too.

If you buy nitrate fertilizers and something goes boom, expect a visit from the fedgov.

If you do act suspicious when buying these chemicals (being evasive on your identity, improper or uncertain need for the chemical, not willing to consider alternative fertilizers) the sales clerk is supposed to get you to give up your name and phone number to provide to the fedgov, failing that they are to follow you out to your car and write down your license plate number.

I can't find the original FBI pamphlet, although I have spoken of it on The Forum before, and I may have attached it somewhere in another thread. I did find this snippet from the FBI's "Agricultural, Chemical, and Petroleum Industry Terrorism Handbook."

A large number of chemicals could potentially be used in a terrorist attack. Every chemical
has its pros and cons when it comes to toxic effects, ease of use, and availability. Although
there are many lists of “chemicals of concern,” it is not practical to focus on any one list as
“The List” when it comes to which chemicals to be concerned about. It is more important to
focus on what a terrorist cell intends to do, then successfully disrupt their plans. If there is a
focus on a particular chemical because the Intelligence Community believes it is a risk, there
is the possibility that other activities would be overlooked. It is equally important to focus on
suspicious activity itself, as that may indicate the terrorist’s intentions. The following
“commodity” chemicals are readily available through chemical supply houses:
Nitric Aci
Citric Acid
Hydrogen Peroxide
Ethanol
Glycerin
Sulfuric Acid
Toluene
Acetone
Ammonium Nitrate

Several of these are sold in large quantities on a daily basis across the country. None of these
are the precursors for chemical warfare agents; however, suspicious inquiries or purchase
attempts may indicate that a cell is trying to manufacture an explosive, or some other toxic
compound.

[Mr Science]

For some reason I feel reluctant naming my source; admin feel free to delete the post if you wish.

http://pvconly.com/
^They are closed for the rest of the year, but they sell VERY high quality KNO3 at something like $1.25/lb. Here is a place to keep your eye on.

[Charles Owlen Picket]

The program for fertilizers is "Be Aware America" and is part of the fertilizer's manufacture agenda with the fed gov. Believe me, they are pretty psycho about it. If however the distributer of seller knows you, or you are a local guy and really own land you probably won't have a big problem.

You will have a BIG problem if something goes "boom" as had been said before. Realistically, all this stuff isn't worth the risk at this time. It may not continue to be this nuts (or it may get worse....).
If I was going to develop a "stash" of chemicals today, I would be awfully careful how I went about it. Even with a great level of care, I certainly would NOT experiment with anything noisy for about a year or two after getting my lab together (& that lab would be OFF my property).

RE: http://pvconly.com/ - Is a very professional rocketry site and those folks are known hobbyists. There is no negative issue that I know of with them what so ever. However they are smart enough not to get abused by unthinking sales to minors, etc.

[sobreroHWE]

I had a dip shit clerk show me 50# bags of Urea and AN/K mixes when I asked for a simple can of KN. As he was showing me the way(he was maybe 20ish) he said "what will you be using it for" as if he was reading it. I think he heard the word "nitrate" and went into Johnny Law mode, not realizing the product I needed was a small 1# can, and not some 50# bag of HE mix.

When I have called for SA from supply houses they usually ask what its for. Usually I get the old "if you tell me what it's for, we can help find you the right product at a better price." After several 1 gallon purchases I tried for one of the 5gal jugs. No problem. It seems even the "watchers" will let their guard down after seeing 999 legit customers(not some rag head with broken English who only seems to know how to say "ammonia feralizer"). They will likely take 1000 as the same.

On a side note I have read about how to extract KN from high nitrate soils, with hot water and alcohol. In a pinch (or in lock down states like Aus/U.K) it could be worth looking into.

[megalomania]

There is nothing wrong with asking for the stuff, just know beforehand what some agricultural uses are. Have a specific plant in mind, preferably one that needs the type of fertilizer you are asking about. If they try to talk you into buying something else, say you tried it, it didn't work, and you want what you asked for.

[ll BOOM3R ll]

....... In a pinch (or in lock down states like Aus/U.K) it could be worth looking into.

I am looking into making fireworks and crackers (BP based product) I am not really looking into HE as I have young children and I would like them to have a father with two hands. Anyway, I have been looking for KNO3 for quite a while. I have finally found a rural supply who will order it in for me @ $30au for 50kg (~$25us for ~100lb for you American folk). In Australia it makes life a lot easier if you have friends or relatives with a farm as I do. You can then quote an address for cross referencing so the salesman can see if your purchase is "legit";). As long as you say the KNO3 is for "fertilising tomatoes" or "oxidizing stumps" you should not have an issue. 50 kg should set me up for a while eh? :D

[totenkov]

50Kg is more than enough KNO3 to last you throughout you LE pyro stages :).
That will either make a fucking big smoke bomb or a lot of BP. I get my KNO3 as stump remover from the hardware store and they charge a woppin $8 per pound for it. :(

I don't use all that much KNO3 (I mainly use it for nitrations) because if I did, I would need a bigger paper route :D

[ChippedHammer]

On a side note I have read about how to extract KN from high nitrate soils, with hot water and alcohol. In a pinch (or in lock down states like Aus/U.K) it could be worth looking into.

Lock down my ass, I walked into a large fertilizer supplier and asked for a 20kg bag of potassium nitrate, clerk said we only have ammonium nitrate in 50kg bags (she mistook what I said). I lol'd (because she was happy to load my car up with AN which is restricted) I then explained I wasn't after AN but potassium nitrate and was told they could only sell me a 50kg bag (:D) and to drive around the back. While driving around the back I noticed 25L drums of 70% nitric acid neatly stacked on a pallet ready for pH modifying goodness. Another aussie member had no problems buying these said drums of acid.

A bogan then loaded my car and I was on my way :)

Cost me $60 for 50kg (thats like 50c a lb for you Americans)

The reason I had no problems was probably my attitude, attire and confidence going inside. If you go in all nervous, have parked a crap run down car outside and are wearing the latest death metal t-shirt then I'm sure they are going to take a good long look at you :)

I also had a comprehensive back story ready - I took some time to read up on genuine uses that Joe Average would have for the product. If they tried to get me to buy another product I was ready to pull the "But apparently this is the best product to use, I don't want to waste my money on something unknown" line.

[sobreroHWE]

WOW! I do stand corrected. I got the impression from other posts that Australia is trying to restrict sales of everything from acetone to asprin because of "rogue" uses.

I guess next time I will look around for more information. 50# bags of AN and KN with no problems!:eek: Looks like I have nitrate on my face:)

[ChippedHammer]

I should mention that this place was smack bang in the middle of a semi-rural area with a lot of small farms around. If your going to buy something look like you know what your doing or get a female to buy it :)

[Emil]

If you either owned some farm land, or had a friend who did, you would have one hell of an advantage in most parts of the world.

I’m a UK resident and speaking of nitrates, I have recently lost both of my only suppliers for Ammonium Nitrate, which is a great disappointment to me.
Apparently there is some "New Legislation" that has come in now. I didn't ask too much about it from my supplier, but I should of really enquired what this legislation was. I suppose nothing more than a pathetic law, crippling small time suppliers and giving them a hard time.

Over here in the UK, picking AN up in your local garden supply shop is about as realistic as a dream. I've never seen anything to do with AN in any garden shop, at least in my part of the country. Potassium Nitrate is not a problem, as it has many more "legit" uses than AN. I can pick up a kg of PN for around £14 from one supplier, which isn't great, or for about £5 from eBay. Of course I tend to stay away from eBay purchases as much as possible. But in today's times, one can't complain about price too much. I'd rather pay a little more and know my name won't be willingly handed over to authorities, than get it for dirt cheap and have eBay kissing authorities asses with their sales information.

However, own a farm or a substantial amount of land, and there are companies who will deliver it to your farm in truck loads without the blink of an eye. Might be time to start becoming friendly with the farmers :D

I do envy the people who can get hold of bulk bags of chemicals such as AN, but I suppose every country has various amounts of ease obtaining different chemicals. We'll never really know how much we can own without being on some sort of list or being watched, but I would just say be sensible and you shouldn't have any problems. Cover yourself where necessary. Use places like eBay as last resorts, possibly not at all for chemicals. And NEVER buy excessive amounts of anything unless you can obviously get away with it. (50kg bags on AN and a dipshit 16 year old nerd selling as much as you could possibly need :D). It’s a risky world we live in so you can never be 100% that you're safe from the 3rd eye.

If any UK residents have any nice suppliers they want to share, who supply reasonable amounts of AN, I would me most appreciative. Send me a PM. I have ripped the internet apart and my only two sources have been demolished.

[Charles Owlen Picket]

Sweet Jesus, every time I turn around there is some "new law" in the UK about some object, chemical, knives, what-have-you..... It's terrible to read about; it must be revolting to live with (?) - However, I think that it's a DAMN GOOD IDEA to stay away from eBay when making purchases.

eBay has some serious lefty politics and made some serious decisions in the past. Years back when eBay had started, it sold firearms in a very legal manner from FFL to FFL. The ad's ran when someone had some long arm to sell....no big deal. Suddenly they stopped and ran a short piece that they weren't going to have anymore gun adverts because of their views on firearms.....NOT because of the complications of those sales (which would have been the sole responsibility of the parties involved (as many web based sites continue to have them) or things related to the concrete issues involved in the sale per se'.

eBay has politics. They have been party to MANY stings in the past primarily due to their position on issues. I am not involved in drugs or bombs or anything like that but eBay has helped set up dozens (perhaps hundreds) of people for agencies both within the US and the EU. Buying chemicals from eBay may not be a very smart thing to do. Especially now that (in the USA) the CPSC has made high grade aluminum verbotten. It has made many oxidizers into "crypto-restricted materials" (see FireFox).

eBay's politics are such that they believe that OBJECTS are responsible for misbehaviour. Bet on the fact that they would co-operate or even volunteer your information to agencies that would not ordinarily think of a buyer suspiciously.....just my opinion, but I would not [& do not] buy via eBay.

[DarkWrath]

In Romania you can easily get ammonium nitrate without authorization in quantities below 25 kg at one time. If you are a farmer and need more you will need some papers to prove that you are a land owner.
That's mostly because the only terrorist threat in the last year was a guy who intended to use a methane tank (Like the ones used for cooking) and a cell phone as a bomb...