God Bless Ebay

[ccw8076]

Hey,

I know that using eBay is risky, but for those of us with a drop box, this is quite nice:
http://stores.ebay.com/Trinity-Lab-Chemicals

This site is great for finding all sorts of interesting and concentrated chemicals for a decent price. Also, I ordered some of this stuff, and there is no need to be a laboratory or school in order to buy it. I thought I would share my bounty with you all. Thanks

[Enkidu]

If you look harder, you can find his website.

A gallon of WFNA, $300, IIRC.

I've searched and found his name and the forums/websites he frequents (and they ain't How to Do Harmless Chemistry in Your Backyard).

Beware of organizations that sell only 'risky' chems.

[Mr Science]

Obviously this member has an external site, but in general with eBay, it never hurts to ask them to do business outside of the website. For the seller, he can avoid all of the fees eBay charges when an item is won, and as for the buyer, there is no record of you purchasing x item. Also note that paypal will freely alert the authorities whenever they see anything deemed "suspicious," so be smart on how you are paying.

[nbk2000]

But you still have to have an e-bay account to find the contact details for the majority of sellers, so you'll still have that 'paper-trail' if They want to look for it.

[Unsunghero]

Honestly, this looks pretty shady,65% nitric acid, sulfuric, and toulene being beside each other just seems a little bit of a..bad sign to me. Anyone think that it has that KNO3.com sketchy feel?

However the seller has quiet a bit of feedback, each of the people buying them seem to have pretty real profiles etc. I think I just might buy me some H2SO4 due to laziness and it only being like $50 a liter.

The lack of KNO3 and NH4NO3 make it look a bit less like a honeypot..I'm givin' it a shot.

[ccw8076]

Yeah, I know it looks a little like entrapment, but I ordered some of the toluene and the H2O2, and it worked out just fine.

NBK may correct me on this, his knowledge in this area vastly exceeds my own, but I think that the legality issue comes to play after you are found trying to detonate an illegal substance, and then the investigation comes to find out where you were getting your stuff.

The reason I posted it here is because it is one of the only non-local, non-stickuptheirass, sellers of the kinds of chemicals I would want to buy. Granted you take your chances trusting the internet at all, but it worked for me.

[LibertyOrDeath]

Also note that paypal will freely alert the authorities whenever they see anything deemed "suspicious," so be smart on how you are paying.
It's also worth pointing out that eBay is probably even worse on that score.

An eBay executive has publicly stated that his company freely provides information to law enforcement anytime they ask -- no warrant required. He even said that they encourage the pigs to use their site for investigative purposes:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=264863&contrassID=2&subContrassID=5&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y&itemNo=264863

"We don't make you show a subpoena, except in exceptional cases," Sullivan told his listeners. "When someone uses our site and clicks on the `I Agree' button, it is as if he agrees to let us submit all of his data to the legal authorities. Which means that if you are a law-enforcement officer, all you have to do is send us a fax with a request for information, and ask about the person behind the seller's identity number, and we will provide you with his name, address, sales history and other details - all without having to produce a court order. We want law enforcement people to spend time on our site," he adds. He says he receives about 200 such requests a month, most of them unofficial requests in the form of an email or fax.

The meaning is clear. One fax to eBay from a lawman - police investigator, NSA, FBI or CIA employee, National Park ranger - and eBay sends back the user's full name, email address, home address, mailing address, home telephone number, name of company where seller is employed and user nickname. What's more, eBay will send the history of items he has browsed, feedbacks received, bids he has made, prices he has paid, and even messages sent in the site's various discussion groups. I would stay as far away from eBay as possible.

[tmp]

The prices for chemicals on that member's website are steep, IMHO. As for
eBay's snitch policy, I've never seen anything related to pyro although that
may change. The busts I've seen are related to clandestine drug
manufacture. The last one, IIRC, was some idiot purchasing sassafras oil and
a 3-neck flask. Looks like he wanted to make some ecstasy. I hope the cops
enjoy reading the list of porn DVDs I've purchased ! :D

[megalomania]

Dear god those prices are tantamount to robbery! All he is doing is repackaging technical grade chemicals and selling those chemicals for 5 to 10 times what you or I could buy them at the same volume from a chemical supplier. I know this seller does not require a school or business license, but at these prices you can get business license and get the chemicals at a real supplier and have the peace of mind that you are legit.

All of his chemicals are ordinary laboratory reagents that are perfectly at home in any business, school, or hobbiest laboratory. If you are doing something illegal and you order these chemicals using your real name, have them shipped to your home, and print out poster sized instructions for your "device," and you get raided by the fedgov, that's entirely your own fault.

I recognize the printing on the labels as being from a software package for chemical repackers, and I also recognize the containers. This guy is buying large orders of 4L bottles of the cheapest grade of chemicals, pouring the stuff into his cheap plastic bottles with a funnel, and gouging you for the privilege. Hell I could do that in my garage, and so could any of you.

[Bugger]

Re Ebay's and PayPal's "snitch" policies, without subpoenas or search warrants being required by them for Pig access to personal information of buyers and sellers: I am fairly sure that under privacy legislation in the U$A, either Federal or States, as in my country, the consent of the persons concerned would be needed for their personal information to be supplied to Pigs without a Court subpoena or warrant. In such a case, I am surprised that they have not been sued for many millions of $s on breach-of-privacy lawsuits. Besides, the way that Ebay supplies information on request to Pigs leaves the wide open to the possibility of someone impersonating the Pigs to request and receive personal information.

[nbk2000]

It's got to be somewhere in their EULA that you have no right-to-privacy from the cops, and that Paypal/E-Bay can do whatever the fuck they want to do with your account info (regardless of what you want done with it), which is pretty much SOP for big business.

[anonymous411]

Hell I could do that in my garage, and so could any of you.

Hm. I have an excellent reputation as an ebay seller in other areas (100% positive feedback over 174 transactions) so maybe that's not such a bad idea after all. Surely making hard-to-find chemicals more accessible to amateur chemists and science hobbyists qualifies as a public service. Sounds like a noble and potentially profitable endeavor to me! Anyone have any suggestions on what would be most in demand while being legally shippable with a minimum of risk and/or scrutiny from the pigs? I'll do the market research myself, but all comments welcome.

[nbk2000]

Anything that'd be doing a service, would also get you in deep shit.

The chemicals that are very difficult to find are so because of their use in drug manufacture (RP, lithium, AcO) or fireworks (Chlorate, Perchlorate, flake Al), neither of which makes The Man happy.

[Charles Owlen Picket]

From what I understand at this point flake Al is now a no-no. However it CAN be sold as paint grade / ink grade (that is actually where Ekhart come from; silver ink grade Al). But selling supposed Reynold's 401 for $25+ would raise some eyebrows [& realistically the bulk price for -325 flake is going up faster than gasoline].

The admin's point about precursor chemicals is also a serious issue. IF you even inadvertently sell a drug precursor chemical, you will get a knock on the door. There are many (too many) cases that show that as a "given". What's more, at this point the LIST is being revised and the listed materials are getting ridiculous. The CPSC has had a success even though it didn't put Gary P. out of business.

[Bugeye]

The privacy policy in ebay US versus ebay Australia is interesting:

Ebay Australia:
Legal Requests. eBay may lawfully disclose your personal information for law enforcement or regulatory purposes. eBay cooperates with law enforcement inquires and other third parties to enforce laws, intellectual property and other rights. We can (and you authorise us to) disclose any information about you to law enforcement or other governmental officials as we, in our sole discretion, believe necessary, appropriate or as otherwise permitted under the Privacy Act 1988 (Cth), in connection with an investigation of fraud, intellectual property infringements, piracy or other activity that is illegal or may expose us to legal liability. Further, we can (and by becoming an eBay member you authorise us to) disclose your UserID, name, street address, city, state, post code, country, phone number, email and company to eBay Verified Rights Owner Programme participants as we, in our sole discretion, believe necessary or appropriate, in connection with an investigation of fraud, intellectual property infringement, piracy or other activity that may expose us to legal liability or as otherwise permitted under the Privacy Act 1988 (Cth). For more information about the Verified Rights Owner Programme, go to Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) Program page (at http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/confidence/programs-vero.html).

Ebay USA:
We may also share your personal information with:

* Members of our corporate family to help detect and prevent potentially illegal acts and provide joint content and services (for example, registration, transactions and customer support). Our corporate affiliates will send marketing communications only to users who request these services.
* Service providers under contract who help with our business operations (such as fraud investigations, bill collection, affiliate and rewards programs and co-branded credit cards).
* Other third parties to whom you explicitly ask us to send your information (or about whom you are otherwise explicitly notified and consent to when using a specific service).
* Law enforcement or other governmental officials, in response to a verified request relating to a criminal investigation or alleged illegal activity. In such events, we will disclose information relevant to the investigation, such as name, city, state, zip code, telephone number, email address, User ID history, IP address, fraud complaints, and bidding and listing history.

So in Australia, Ebay states that they have to comply with Australian Federal law (1988 privacy act), but in the US there is no reference to any limiting privacy regulations. According to the US ebay privacy policy, it's open season on ebay users.

[Charles Owlen Picket]

In American Fireworks News, there was a rather large article this month about buying from eBay. In a nutshell they said that a lot of folks have been getting ripped off on eBay as the source for pyro materials [that has been drying up due to CPSC pressure]. They go on to illustrate the ways people get stiffed, etc.

What is obvious but written between the lines is that buying or selling via eBay of certain items will get you seriously unwanted attention. I tend to think this may be a worthwhile warning. While powdered Al is not restricted outright neither are List I chemicals. There are restrictions on their sale and amount levels to various purchasers but any attempted purchase leads (eventually) to a problem.

On eBay these problems occur all too often to be coincidental. - Personally, I won't buy anything on eBay [for many reasons]. On the FTP there is now a file: RestrictedChemicalsList-Laws.RAR, containing the most recent List I & II chemicals and related laws & guidelines. The Cumulative Threshold Provisions (CTP) & those materials that do not have a CTP but are restricted regardless of size/amount do NOT mean that those materials are illegal but that they get tracked regardless of the amount sold.

[megalomania]

I will no longer buy any item on ebay sold by "power sellers" or those pseudo companies. Virtually every seller on ebay is a scammer who rips off buyers. Long gone are the days when an individual could get rid of his junk, and the buyer can get a good deal. The scammers have ruined ebay and turned it into a walmart where every item is sold above retail prices.

You double your trouble buying chemicals from ebay sellers. I would not buy any chemical from ebay simply because the quality and purity of these chemicals are dubious at best, and complete scams at worst.

I only use ebay to search for rare mechanical or electrical components that I have no idea where to get elsewhere. You simply have no protections like you would if you buy from a retailer, and you never know what you are getting.

Stay away from ebay.

[ccw8076]

I know that several of the members here have their own "small businesses" which deal in such items, would it be advisable to buy from them? I mean it is still a purchase on trust whatever you do if you buy online, but would the members here be more trustworthy in their quality and pricing? My instinct says yes, because they are most likely experienced in this business, but I was wondering what other people thought.

[anonymous411]

I will no longer buy any item on ebay sold by "power sellers" or those pseudo companies. Virtually every seller on ebay is a scammer who rips off buyers. Long gone are the days when an individual could get rid of his junk, and the buyer can get a good deal. The scammers have ruined ebay and turned it into a walmart where every item is sold above retail prices.

Sorry you've had bad experiences, but I wouldn't give up on E-Bay completely. I specifically avoid the "slick" pseudo-companies and stick to small sellers who 1) accept Paypal and 2) offer a refund if not as described. You have quite a bit of recourse if something goes wrong, and I've never been unhappy. Once I received an off-lease laptop with a faulty display, mailed it back, the guy fixed it, and it's been working ever since. Only dealing with people who have 100% positive feedback over a large number of transactions is another good way to weed out the dross.

The small guys getting rid of junk are still there, it's just that they're a lot harder to find-- some niche markets are more swamped by criminals than others. Markets for stuff you can't buy at Walmart (fencing equipment, equestrian tack, taxidermy, etc) are relatively free of the con artists that infest the electronics and computer sections. If you want exercise equipment, Craigslist is your best option.

As for clothing, if you look to Ebay for so-called "designer" goods, forget it: you're practically begging to be ripped off. However, you can get fantastic deals on classic, well-made attire that doesn't appeal to the masses (Asprey, Barbour, Gieves & Hawkes, etc.) because nobody thought to counterfeit it. Even Brooks Brothers can be had for a fraction of the price...look it up yourself if you don't believe me. With Ebay, there's no need to dress shabbily again. Anyone can literally look like a gentleman on minimum wage.

I might consider buying chemicals from highly-reputable posters who have demonstrated a thorough knowledge of the field, but only if it were something I had a hard time finding elsewhere.

[Bugger]

In New Zealand, there can be no "contracting out" of our Privacy Act 1993 or NZ Bill Of Rights Act 1990, where permission to release personal information about oneself in every single instance is not freely given, but is obtained by fraud or duress or undue influence, or breach of a fiduciary duty. Those terms that Bugeye quoted above, which are intended to apply to ALL personal information of a customer and in EVERY single instance (not just one, for which the customer is asked for permission) where the Pigs might want it would therefore be very probably null and void, if ever questioned in a New Zealand civil Court; and information so obtained, not by a search warrant, would be inadmissible as evidence in a criminal Court here.

[sbovisjb1]

Yes. If you work for a teaching institution you can easily acquire a lot of those chemicals for free or dirt cheap.