Thought Crime Bill Passes House!

[festergrump]

The U.S. House of Representatives recently passed HR 1955 titled the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007. This bill is one of the most blatant attacks against the Constitution yet and actually defines thought crimes as homegrown terrorism. If passed into law, it will also establish a commission and a Center of Excellence to study and defeat so called thought criminals. Unlike previous anti-terror legislation, this bill specifically targets the civilian population of the United States and uses vague language to define homegrown terrorism. Amazingly, 404 of our elected representatives from both the Democrat and Republican parties voted in favor of this bill. There is little doubt that this bill is specifically targeting the growing patriot community that is demanding the restoration of the Constitution.

http://www.roguegovernment.com/news.php?id=4682

Here are two of my favorite statements from under it's SEC. 899B FINDINGS section:

`(3) The Internet has aided in facilitating violent radicalization, ideologically based violence, and the homegrown terrorism process in the United States by providing access to broad and constant streams of terrorist-related propaganda to United States citizens.

Lets just step right around that pesky thing we call the 1st Amendment, shall we? Say goodbye to not just this great Forum, but any other hosted from US soil which allows the very real truths and informations to be shouted from rooftops. We aren't freedom-loving patriots, after all, we're Domestic Terrorists! :mad:

`(9) Certain governments, including the United Kingdom, Canada, and Australia have significant experience with homegrown terrorism and the United States can benefit from lessons learned by those nations.

...and maybe we should adopt also these other countries' Draconian laws and policies to better keep your minds free from obviously harmful activities such as free thought? :rolleyes: Absolute horseshit!


Discuss all you want, but do pardon me while I go scrub my eyeballs with Ajax and a Brillo pad to remove the funk that just stuck to them from reading all that drivel.

Treason, treason, treason...

[LibertyOrDeath]

So, the fools are worried about "violent radicalization."

Want to know the one thing that's MOST likely to turn me into a violent hate-filled radical who's willing to risk his own life just to kill a few of the System's enforcers? Laws that attempt to limit my freedom, such as the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007!

Big Brother knew exactly what he was doing when he declared "War on Terrorism." It was the same thing he was doing when he declared "War on Drugs." The idea is that "everything is justified when you're at war" -- as if we were running for the bomb shelters every other night. Freedom is always supposed to give way to safety -- and don't forget that "the world changed on 9/11"! :rolleyes:

Thus, We The People are expected to eat shit like good little citizens and give up even more of our rights so the Hillarys, Giulianis, Bloombergs, Feinsteins, and Schumers can revel in their power over us. :mad:

Want more violent radicals and homegrown terrorists, you punk-ass politicians and pig enforcers? Keep putting new legal restrictions on guns, "hate speech," and the exchange of information. Keep increasing domestic surveillance. Keep putting yourselves above the rest of the population. Just keep doing what you're doing.

[Hirudinea]

Want more violent radicals and homegrown terrorists, you punk-ass politicians and pig enforcers? Keep putting new legal restrictions on guns, "hate speech," and the exchange of information. Keep increasing domestic surveillance. Keep putting yourselves above the rest of the population. Just keep doing what you're doing.

Hmmm, you pass a law which produces what it says it is trying to stop, and then you say "Look, we need even more strigent laws", makes sense to me, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, etc would be proud.

[Rbick]

I think President Lincoln had a good point when he said

America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter, and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.

~Abraham Lincoln

Thats just what is happening. I recall another quote, I believe by Lincoln as well, saying it is in the right of the people to overthrow the government should it ever become corrupt and tyrannical. Anyone else smelling another revolution brewing? I sure do... ;)

[tmp]

Another useless piece of legislation. It's the same shit as the gun control
laws. When one fails, pass another even more stringent law. Even with the
specific wording about use, planned use, and threat of use of force, the rest
of it is a clear attack against the Internet. In other words, they want to
control the flow of information now. They must be very envious of China's
filtering of websites to keep the sheeple under foot. What they're asking for
is our feet in their asses !

[Enkidu]

Anyone else smelling another revolution brewing? I sure do... ;)

I wish I did. :(

The sheeple would brand us as terrorists and turn us over to big brother without so much as a second thought.

God forbid that our future children are the ones to do it.

[Hinckleyforpresident]

The sheeple would brand us as terrorists and turn us over to big brother without so much as a second thought.

I totally agree. While there is still the media infrastructure no revolution of any sort could happen. Unless the government is publicly committing genocide or something sheeple will not stop listening to them.

Your average revolutionary does not have the man power or the convincing power required to even survive in a revolution, never mind win :(.

[Thermiteisfun]

I will fight if necessary, I am NOT a terrorist as I do not intentionally cause terror for an agenda! I simply like loud noises, if the government wants to take MY freedom they better be willing to take my life at the cost of theirs!


kill facisim and the pigs perpetuating it!

[Kaydon]

Bring it on. They can't stop us all.

We need to let them know we still have the Second Amendment.

[megalomania]

Their commission wants to study the root cause of domestic terrorism? How about not passing laws to take away peoples freedoms and becoming a totalitarian police state that oppresses everyone.

The government, its laws, and its policies create domestic terrorism. The phantom specter of domestic terrorism is the excuse the fedgov uses to create oppressive laws, the oppressive laws force decent citizens to resist the fedgov, resistance is labeled terrorism, and even harsher fedgov abuse is unleased on citizens. The cycle repeats until the society reaches what I like to call the "Precipice." The Precipice is the drop off point where the average citizen is so disgusted with the atrocities of the fedgov that revolution becomes supported by the majority. With popular support behind the overthrow it can not be stopped by the oppressors.

[Charles Owlen Picket]

In truth the "patriot community" was a creature of the 1990's and is now mostly defused into smaller and smaller groups. While most of the rank & file of those years became disillusioned and found themselves dealing with the reality of what it meant to be a "Tax Protester" It meant going to fucking prison! Not getting a free ride on your back taxes.

Domestic Terror today needs to be defined. Just because this Bill passed does not mean anything will radically change. I would be interested to know more about the Bill; including what it's riders are! It just may be an open-ended method to start some sort of internet constraints or monitoring. - OR it could be the biggest threat to our freedoms we have yet encountered....

[Kaydon]

They know real Patriots are still around, and they want to brainwash the sheep into believing that any resistance is terrorism. I thought the Constitution told us to protect ourselves from enemies, foreign and domestic? How come no one pays attention to the Constitution anymore? Why's it seen as a "goddamned peice of paper - Bush"? What propaganda put the message across that the Constitution means nothing? Fucking A.

We need to get a list of those advocates of this bill in Office, and send them letters from Hell!

[Mr Science]

Here is a great Rense article I found this morning dealing with the issue:
http://rense.com/general79/tidn.htm

And on a side note rbick, I believe this is the quote you were referring to:
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Wherever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or the revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it."
-Abraham Lincoln

It has been these last few years that this is the most obvious, that our country is getting locked down. And apparently, trying to reason with these animals is accomplishing nothing. I encourage everyone to watch Innocents Betrayed as well. It is on the FTP, and Demonoid.
http://www.innocentsbetrayed.com/

[Bugger]

Terrorism Prevention Acts - U$A and New Zealand

On October 23, 2007, the U.$. House of Representatives passed the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007 by a vote of 404-6. The bill will be referred out of committee this week and will then go to the Senate floor. The National Lawyers Guild and the Society of American Law Teachers strongly oppose this legislation because it will likely lead to the criminalization of beliefs, dissent and protest, and invite more draconian surveillance of Internet communications.

The Rand Corporation is the key writer of the bill. Rep. Jane Harmon (D-CA), the Congressmember most involved with the bill, has had a lengthy relationship with Rand.

Well, that $ucks! The overwhelming Hou$e majority in favor of the Bill MUST indicate there was some sort of "peer pressure" brought to bear on dissenting
Representatives, and/or that a lot of them may have been "bought off" by bribes from the likes of the Rand Corporation and other U$ Govt. contractors (e.g. Wackenhut, and Halliburton who since Reagan in the 1980s have built hundreds of concentration camps, and railway prison boxcars, all over the U$A, currently standing empty) who stand to gain from it.

The Bill was unnecessary anyway - the existing ordinary criminal laws against assault, murder, wilful damage, misuse of firearms, possession of explosives
other than for lawful purposes, etc., are quite sufficient. On the face of it, the Bill looks as if it breaches the First, Second, Fourth, Fifth, and Sixth
Amendments; and will fail in its first test in Court. Mere dissemination of propaganda over such media as the internet CANNOT be "terrorism".

And, with the U$ Treasury bankrupt, how are they going to pay for operation of the Act? Borrow the money from China as usual?

Here in New Zealand, we have our own Terrorism Suppression Act 2002, which can be read at

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/libraries/contents/om_isapi.dll?clientID=986460615&hitsperheading=on&infobase=pal_statutes.nfo&jump=a2002-034%2fs.1&softpage=DOC#JUMPDEST_a2002-034/s.1

and following pages. It, similarly unnecessary, was passed as the result of the NZ Government being "panicked" by 9/11 and the lies told about it by Bu$h
to the American people and to all other friendly governments. Since then, it has not been used even once, to lay charges against anyone. Now that
"everyone (savvy) now knows" that the 9/11 plot was known in advance with great detail by Bu$h and Cheney, who deliberately allowed it to happen for party political purposes and to enrich the U$ military-industrial complex of which they are major shareholders, the N.Z. Parliament could not and would
not have passed it today.

Moreover, in October, the NZ Police (read NZ Pigs) attempted to misuse the NZ Terrorism Suppression Act 2002, by quoting it in a perjured affidavit,
containing packs of lies, sworn by a Detective-Sergeant Pascoe in an Auckland Court. This affidavit was deceptively used by them to obtain
search warrants from a gullible Judge, against a diverse collection of mostly Maori, Socialist, and Environmentalist political dissidents, who were
lawfully going about their business. These search warrants were executed in a coordinated series of "dawn raids" on the morning of 15th October 2007.

This perjured affidavit which was used to con the search warrants out of the Judge, and which the NZ Pigs desperately tried to suppress, was nevertheless
"leaked" by one of their number who anonymously dissented, and it can be downloaded from either of the following links, to which it was uploaded by someone in Russia:

http://rapidshare.de/files/37947242/NZ_POLICE_Affidavit-Oct_2007-Perjured_ForTerrorism_Raids_nzclu_org-downloads_.pdf.html
http://mihd.net/lnidef
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=80HANGGQ

The NZ Pigs, after the search warrants were executed at many addresses around the country on 15th October, alleging a "conspiracy", then applied to the Solicitor-General for permission (as is required under the Act) to formally lay charges under the Terrorism Suppression Act 2002. This was after laying "holding" alleged charges, under such laws as the Arms Act (under which Act several people were charged in spite of never owning firearms in their lives!), as a device to hold people in custody without bail while the Solicitor-General made up his mind what to do. However, after a fortnight, the Solicitor-General decided that NO charges could be laid under the Terrorism Suppression Act 2002, with any chance of obtaining convictions! Only then were all 17 people who were arrested on charges under other Acts as the
result of the search warrants, quite minor "technical" charges, given bail. They are denying all charges.

Further information about this incident in New Zealand in October, and the perjured affidavit, can be found on the following web-pages:

http://nzclu.org (the NZ Civil Liberties Union website, based in the U$A, before it was hacked a few days ago by the NZ Electronic Secret Police (the GCSB, counterpart of the NSA); to read it, either use the "Cached" option in the result (about number 31) found by searching for New Zealand Civil Liberties Union on Google, or search on www.archive.org);
http://tumeke.blogspot.com/ ; and
http://newzeal.blogspot.com/2007/11/urewera-17-affadavit-posted-on-net.html

Alternatively, here is a text file containing comments on the incident.

[tmp]

Bugger, ever watched "Waco: The Rules Of Engagement" ? It's on the FTP in
both .AVI and .RV format. During U.S. Congressional hearings, a former BATF
agent accused his superiors of lying about the search warrant for the Branch
Davidians. It seems the only issues in the warrant were the objections that
David Koresh, and his fellow Davidians, had to U.S. gun control laws. Then
that shitbag, Chuck "Fuck-All-Gunowners" Schumer tried to change the nature
of the hearings into a sexual misconduct witchhunt. Sexual misconduct is a
state-level matter - not the jurisdiction of the Feds unless it involves
child pornography or sexual offenders operating across state lines.

That was Schumer's justification for the murder of all those innocent people
and then he tried to blame the Davidians for the atrocity. He didn't even
mind the FBI using a chemical agent(CS) banned by the Geneva Convention
for use in warfare. No surprise given the Billary adminstration's and Janet
Reno's hatred of gunowners.

[Joxer]

The government, its laws, and its policies create domestic terrorism. .

I agree. That is why I dont care what laws are passed. In fact, I'll go further than you did. I hope more and more laws like this are passed. I dont care if the FEDGOV calls me a "terrorist", because I expect them to do that, and it doesnt matter if it is truthful or not.

The more they tighten their grip, the more that slip thru their fingers,
and the more allies we will have when the time comes. The patriots will have more allies than they realize, IMO.

I just wish I knew what the "tripwire" event will be. But I know that the standoff in NH was one possibility http://www.infowars.com/articles/ps/waco_will_plainfield_be_another_waco.htm

If that had turned out badly, people were ready to go. There will be no more Wacos'.

People are waking up, in spite of Faux Snooze and Bill Oh'Really.

[UnderConstruction]

(3)... ... ...ideologically based violence, and the homegrown terrorism process... ...
This country was FOUNDED on "ideologically based violence"! Just because the government decided that they can better benefit from further abridging our rights doesn't mean that they should encourage such a blatantly Orwellian ideal-- everything the Bill of Rights was meant to accomplish is being criminalized. :mad:

They must be very envious of China's
filtering of websites to keep the sheeple under foot.
I'm sure they're more than just envious of it, I'll be amazed if book-burning isn't reintroduced... eventually followed by an aristocratic oligarchy keeping the proles very frightened of change while the good guys in government weed out all of those horrible free-thinkers and the overly-literate in general.

[festergrump]

...while the good guys in government...

HEY! I think you get some kind of reward for coming up with another oxymoron similar to "military intelligence"... (well, there IS Ron Paul, so no reward :().

So far as book-burning goes, though, one only has to look at Mega's mission objective and reason for maintaining this site to see that it's really inevitable. How many times has Roguesci been attacked? How far off until the book burning begins? Who could tell, but there are some diehard idiots out there trying not only to ban possession of information, but also even fantasy books which rub them the wrong way. (Yes, Harry Potter is dripping pure EVIL into the minds of our youth! My daughter will become a minion of Satan, surely...).

Here's a fine example of the previews to book-burning:
http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?p=95844

What happens to the UK is sure to be proposed elsewhere, eventually. Tick tock. I assume Australia will follow suit next as they're very ripe for that kind of behavior within their "new" (and elected... LMAO! :rolleyes:) government.

[EDIT: Since the edit button is still available for this post, I'd like to add that I very much understand where Joxer is coming from... It's not like you're burying your head in the sand and hoping for the best to ONLY follow laws which are backed by your country's constitution. It's simply a statement that nothing more will you follow. IMHO, more LEO's and military cadets should adopt the same, as they all DID swear an oath of exactly the same. Can massive accounts of "legal" insurrection be a political statement? Oh, you bet it can... :D]

[Alexires]

festergrump - *cough* Some of us didn't elect him I might remind you. I know what a farce this is anyway *grin*.

Speaking of Harry Potter, I had this weird dream the other night where I was Harry Potter. I was muttering "Lumos", convinced my wand was lying on my night stand and that Death Eaters were about to attack.... I absolutely believed this until my light came on (touch lamp). Fucking weird as.

We have yet to see if the new socialist government is going to do anything prick like, but I doubt it will be any different than old Johnny Howard.

[Man Down Under]

A video explaining HR1955. http://www.podblanc.com/files/12092.flv

[wst50]

Here's a fine example of the previews to book-burning:
http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?p=95844

Dear God no.

I might learn Arabic just to read some Arabic books outside police stations, just to get arrested, in a test case.

The government doesn't seem to realise that with oppression you breed resistance. Case in point- The French Resistance in the early 40's. They were killing Nazis, risking their lives, etc, because the Nazis were oppressing them. Same with the Eastern Europeans at the same time.

The UK would, I believe, have less violent crime if these laws were loosened. Allow guns to be legal. If everyone had a shotgun, self-regulation would come into effect.

Instead they think that by putting a metaphorical straitjacket over us we won't be able to (metaphorically) kick them.

(Sorry, wrote this in a bit of a rage from a totally unrelated topic, so it might be a bit rant-y).

[kafrboomer]

For those of you who are unsure of what we are refering to as "Big Brother" and "thought crimes" I would like to take a brief second to explain. A book was published in 1948 written by Orwell ( I would highly suggest reading it) in which a group of individuals took over this world. They supress the people by totally obliterating their imagination and thought, controlling them by brain washing them. If you even so much as think a thought (thought crime) their leader (Big Brother) will vaporize you (wipe your name off the Earth). Just a little off topic information.

Now... I dont understand how in the world the government thinks that just by passing a few laws that they will be able to scare us away from our experiments and furtherment of knowledge. Explosive materials have been deemed hazardouse and illegal and yet we are still making PETN and other high explosives on our land.

So in response to that chemicals are slowly being taken away, so what do we do? We find another one that will take its place or synth our own chemicals. So what do they do next? Impose harsher punishments. Big wup! If people believe strongly in their cause they will be willing to go as far as to lay down their lifes to show their dedication. A good example are the suicide bombers in the middle east. They are dedicated fully to their cause and fucking blow themselves up because they believe in it. There is no way that the government can stop science from expanding and stop us from our experiments. There will always be a way out. In the early mid 1900's (don't remmember the year) alcohol was banned. So what did people do? Boot legged it of course! What did the government expect them to do? Marijuana is illegal yet people still get it some way.

The point I am trying to make is that no matter what laws or punishments are placed in our "protection" we will find a way around to exercise our Bill of Rights. I apologize for the long post but I believe so firmly in the constitution and what the governemnt is doing in our "defense".