Rifle Grenades

[Zyklon_B]

Does anyone know what is required in re-arming a rifle launched grenade? Do they use a booster charge other then just the blank cartridge?

<img src="http://swordsdaggersandsuch.bizhosting.com/cgi-bin/image/templates/_grenade.jpg" alt=" - " />

I thought that rifle grenades would present a easier method of launching grenades then a "grenade launcher" such as the 40mm. Rifle grenades are fairly available in a wide variety, from those that use normal handheld grenades, to those that use shaped charges. They come in a variety of shapes and styles:

<img src="http://www.adrax.com/watsons/g052.jpg" alt=" - " />

<img src="http://www.big-ordnance.com/grenades/M67RG1.JPG" alt=" - " />

<img src="http://www.big-ordnance.com/grenades/M17.jpg" alt=" - " />

<img src="http://www.big-ordnance.com/grenades/M9A1.JPG" alt=" - " />

[BoB-]

Rifle grenades dont use blanks, they use reinforcements at the rear to catch the bullet. Soldiers very rarely have a chance to sit down and prepare something.

You could always convert an old rifle to fire the grenades exclusively, this would completly remove the chance for any confusion since the rifle would only ever be loaded with blanks.

[Anthony]

I'm pretty sure that some rifle grenades were fired with blank rounds, maybe before they came up with the bullet-catching design?

[Marcus]

Yes Anthony is correct. Rifle Grenades were invented during WW1 by soldiers who strapped hand grenades to a rod and fired them using blank charges from their rifles.

[Kriegsminister]

These things look more like rockets than grenades...

I doubt that a blank cartidge provides enough power to launch a grenade very far because they weight quite a lot (at least compared to a normal bullet). It might work better if you had some dowel you could insert into the barell, because if you just place the grenade on top of the barell there will be quite some space for the gases to expand wich will lower the pressure that launches the grenade.

There might be some smaller ones that could be fired that way, but I guess these larger ones contain some kind of a booster, which is ignited by the blank cartidge.
The bullet catching thing might work better, but I think such a design would also require a more lightweight grenade.

Grenades are fun! During my time at the army I tossed some hand grenades, which is a very exciting thing to do...

[Anthony]

You'd be surprised how far you lob a reasonable weight with a small powder charge. Consider that some substantial mortar rounds are fired with the propellent charge in a 12ga shotgun cartridge!

[A-BOMB]

Bullet catching :rolleyes: Rifle grenades use crimped grenade launching blanks, on semi-auto rifles that launch a grenade you need to turn off the gas system (like on M66 yugo(sks))so that all of the gas from the round in used to launch the grenade. I've never heard of a bullet catching system.

[nbk2000]

Bullet-trap rifle grenades are the standard now. The old style depended on a soldier remembering to load a special blank cartridge prior to launch. If he forgot and fired a ball round....BOOM!

Go to <a href="http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/2116/riflehandgrenades.htm" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/2116/riflehandgrenades.htm</a> for further info.

[Zyklon_B]

So then the old grenades at the gunshows and army surpluses require only blanks. Very usefull!

There are a array of weapons that can fire rifle grenades, such as the yugo SKS, mauser rifles, M1 Garands, M1 carbine and the list goes on. With a bolt action rifle dedicated to shooting nothing but grenades there shouldn't be any problem. Mausers can be found for cheap and don't require any valve to make sure the gas only comes out the muzzle. But then again most everyday assault rifles can also be adapted to using rifle grenades. The advantage is the less sensitive environment(compared to inside a barrel) your explosive devices have to be exposed to, less weight, since in a instant you can leave the grenades behind, where with the 40mm you still have either the launcher attached to the gun, or you have to carry a completely different launcher.

[nbk2000]

Not just any ol' blank cartridge will work though.

If you use a regular blank, like the kind used to simulate gunfire, you'll end up with the grenade landing a few yards in front of you.

What's needed is special grenade launching blanks, which use a different type of powder, more of it, and tighter crimping, to achieve the pressure levels needed to throw the grenade the distance needed.

[Zyklon_B]

Here is a website with some load data for grenade launching blanks in 7.62 NATO: <a href="http://medlem.spray.se/coonan/762x51/762x51.html" target="_blank">http://medlem.spray.se/coonan/762x51/762x51.html</a>

I can't seem to find any other load data in any other calibers, can anyone help? :confused:

[Al Nobel]

Maybe a little bit out of toppic, but I found last autumn some WW2 grenades near Berlin , which looked like CO2 cartridges (4 times as large as normal ones).Dont know if those are rifle grenades or not.They are definetafelly to small for normall mörser-granaten (sorry but I dont know the correct english word).Any idea what those could be? Thanks

Mörsergranaten=mortar grenades

<small>[ January 25, 2003, 09:06 PM: Message edited by: Machiavelli ]</small>

[SawedOff8gaugeman]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">... on semi-auto rifles that launch a grenade you need to turn off the gas system (like on M66 yugo(sks))so that all of the gas from the round in used to launch the grenade.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">The point isn't actually "directing all the pressure" for the grenade but avoiding the gun having random parts fall off. :rolleyes: Firing rifle grenades puts "some" stress on the rifle's gas system.

[nbk2000]

Did any of the UXO you found look like this?

<img src="http://www.geocities.com/Augusta/8172/gpg30.gif" alt=" - " />

<a href="http://www.geocities.com/Augusta/8172/panzerfaust8.htm" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/Augusta/8172/panzerfaust8.htm</a>

[concrete feet]

i've always had reservations about using a dowel (wooden at any rate) in a rifled barrel.
i am afraid that, due to the nature of the wood's grain, the gas pressure would cause the grain to seperate, thus increasing the diameter of the dowel. i have even wondered if, once expanded, the dowel would be gripped by the rifling, causing yet more friction.
i worry also that using a smaller dia. dowel to compensate would result in loss of gass pressure and retard the range of the projectile.
BTW, if anyone can say for sure whether my reservations are warrented or not i'd like to know, as i prefer not to make statements that may be false.

it is my understanding that the bullet-trap designs lose acuracy with increased range, as the bullets exit through the side (in all models i've seen) and temorarily destablize the flight after clearing the rifle.
[edit: edited for spelling]

<small>[ February 13, 2003, 03:41 PM: Message edited by: concrete feet ]</small>

[shooter3]

Rod type rifle granades had a bad habit of expanding the barrels and ruining them.

[concrete feet]

beyond merely ruining the barrel i worry about the danger of the barrel fragmenting and injuring (or killing) the shooter.

[SithLord]

Hello! This topic is why I joined your forum. Has anyone here actually successfully launched a 22mm grenade off of a fal or sks?? Obviosly if anyone replies.. than they did it successfully, because either they still have all their fingers or else they have voice recognition software. ;)
I would just try it myself from far away with a string tied around the trigger, but.... SKS=$150 grenade=$20 trip to Arizona to buy another SKS=$500.... so I'm not to hot about blowing up my gun.

I found you on google btw I saw a thread about google searching for you guys and how you rated. Thought you'd like to know that it actually works sometimes.
roguesci.org was #3 on the search for "40mm practice grenade"

among the other interesting things I saw while searching for the non-existant answer to my question:
A russian-english dictionary: rifle-grenade noun mil. винтовочная граната
A 22mm grenade for breaking down doors: http://www.isayeret.com/gear/simon/simon.htm
What an actual Yugoslavian SKS grenade looks like: http://www.inert-ord.net/yugos/yughr/m60/

[roux]

the solution to the use of a wooden dowel would be some kind of pipe cap fitted over the back end of the dowel.

[SithLord]

ATTENTION AL NOBEL: I believe that the grenade you are refering to is a german manufacture high explosive with the designation m 30. There is one that will be on ebay for the next six days you can look at to see if that's it. I don't know if it's that one or a similar one. Try to unscrew the front end cap. If you can than you might see a string that can be pulled. DO NOT PULL IT!! It is the activation that you can use before you throw it. It might arm the grenade. So, anyway, this grenade was meant to be for either a rifle or to throw. Kinda smart of them.

[Jacks Complete]

Anything like a short dowel would be a disaster!

If you want to bulged barrel or to blow your gun to bits, try sticking a heavy lump down the barrel, so the gas pressure wave hits it, and the barrel will not love you for it!

The only safe way to do this would be to have a stick long enough to reach the end of the blank, so that the pressure doesn't spike like it would with a gap.

Obviously, if you have millions in R&D to spend, and don't mind the loss of a few rifles, you can make one better than that, as seen in the military world, but otherwise, it is borrowed time!

Too many black powder shooters have destroyed modern repro firearms (and old ones too) by not fully seating either the wad or the bullet in the barrel, causeing the gun to explode, and a rifle grenade will weigh a lot more than any bullet!

Make sure you use a long stick, or a small charge!

[Mike76251]

So launching the grenades looks like it has been covered (the correct blank charge) but what about the detonator?
I took one (like the top pic) apart and saw a hollow area in the nose for what I guessed to be piezoelectric cystrals.
I assume the round hits something and the cystrals develop a charge to fire a cap.
If so...........what type of cap and how much current would it take to set it off?
The copper stand-off inside even the blank training rounds is a very handy thing BTW.

[roux]

so what kind of material(or length of material) would be better suited for shooting a grenade from a rifle? and wouldnt a homemade firearm be more economical for shooting off a grenade than useing a real one(especialy for testing)?

[daysleeper]

a little different than the rest of these post, a few years back the Shotgun News used to carry an ad by a company that made
a device that would go onto the muzzle end of a AK or sks barrel, like a twist on flash hider, this device then had a steel cup structure that held a can sized object, like a beer or pepsi can, it was actually stated in the ad that it was designed to shoot full cans of beer or soda loaded with SAND!, but i have not seen or been able to locate this company for 5 years now. These devices used blank rounds and boasted a 300 yard range i believe.

anyone got anything else on this device or company to help out this thread?

this is my first post...please be gentle, lol

---------------------

Your post does look especially different because your keyboard seems to lack the "shift "key. It's a prerequisite for being a member to our forum, so you better get one ;)!

Rhadon

[Mike76251]

Those things were alot of fun alright but liability insurance today means you can't sell them anymore.
Many weapons out there just aren't designed to take this kind of punishment.

[Cyclonite]

Back to the UXO question, if it fits over a rifle barrel and when you look in the back end there is just the chamber for the rifle to go in or a series of pierced bullet catches than its a rifle grenade. You dont need to rearm it, it either didnt arm due to a malfunction of its armed and didnt strike the target at the right angle or didnt have enough impact. In that case its armed right now and you may want to get rid of it, it could very well kill you. Iv seen grenades that have just a tiny grain of sand that was stuck in just right preventing the striker from hitting the primer and it just needed a tiny nudge to turn you into pink mist. For everyone, if you do decide to fuck with an UXO make sure it hasn’t been fired or the fuse is gone. Some of these items are very temperamental and are not worth your life. Some have anti withdrawal devices on the fuse that will result in detonation upon trying to remove it.

[nbk2000]

This would be the perfect time to practice using water-charges to knock off the fuse, or rupture the cases open so you can extract the explosive within, since I'd think it's only the explosive within the UXO that the pyro is after, not the shell itself.

Rhadon, not only is there a bunch of people buying imitation keyboards that lack shift keys, but there's also a lot of bogus keyboards lacking space bars, capital I letters, and even paragraph return keys! I won't even get into the incomprehensible non-standard english keyboards.

My god, what's this world coming to?! ;)

[AsylumSeaker]

Reading an AK 47 users manual I notice that the AK can use the thing described by daysleeper to lob regular hand grenades. I have also been told of RPGs, like an RPG 7 style one which have a rod on the end and you can launch it from the barrel of a rifle. Interesting.

[daysleeper]

Hey Asylumseaker does it give a picture or perhaps detailed specs of this device? I would love to get my grips on one.

[Karstjager]

I think simply way to do design rifle grenades copy type russian VPGS ramrod-rifle grenade.
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/4716/vpgsxj7.th.jpg
big pic.-
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/4716/vpgsxj7.jpg

WBR,
Poroch

[w22shadow]

I stumbled across a company selling "dummy" rifle grenades today. I doubt it would be too difficult to make a "live" example with similar specifications. :)

Links:
"Israeli Training Grenade with Green Aluminum Tube - Fully Inert"
http://www.keepshooting.com/militarysurplus/collectibles/israeli_training_grenade.htm
"USGI WWII Rifle Grenade Adapter with Inert Grenade"
http://www.keepshooting.com/militarysurplus/collectibles/riflegrenadecombo.htm

I have been interested in the potential uses of the "grenade launcher" on the Yugoslavian M59/M66; it is a very inexpensive weapon (http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Yugoslavian_Model_59_66_7_62x39_SKS_Rifle.html).

[nbk2000]

An even better deal:

http://www.keepshooting.com/militarysurplus/collectibles/rifle-grenade-kit-israeli.htm

6 grenades, plus all the spare parts so you can practice to proficency with them, for $200.

Once you're good with 'em, replace the inert head with a cast HE head containing an impact fuze. Bombs away. :)

[w22shadow]

An even better deal... Sweet. :cool: Once you're good with 'em, replace the inert head with a cast HE head containing an impact fuze. Bombs away. :) Inert-Ord.net (http://www.inert-ord.net/), along with a wealth of information on other subjects, has several great articles on the device:

Links:
"Yugoslavian M60P1 HE Rifle Grenade"
http://www.inert-ord.net/yugos/yughr/m60/index.html
"Walt's Page" (User: open/Password: 1945 (http://www.inert-ord.net/opndr.html))
http://www.inert-ord.net/yugos/yughr/m60/Walt/index.html
"Yugoslavian M93 HEAT Rifle Grenade"
http://www.inert-ord.net/yugos/yughr/m93/index.html

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/4505/yugoslaviangrenadefusedm1.jpg

More Links:
"Launching Rifle Grenades with the M70"
http://home.comcast.net/~m70AK3/RGlaunch.htm
"Yugoslavian M59/66 SKS Battle Rifle"
http://home.comcast.net/~pslromak3/SKSpage.htm
"Rifle Grenade Launching with M59/66"
http://home.comcast.net/~pslromak3/RGLAUNCH.htm

[Diabolique]

Concerning piezo-fuses, be very carful of them, particularly after they have been fired. When going into the impact areas in Arizona, it was important to watch out for them due to even your shadow on a warm day to stress the tourmaline crystal enough for it to generate a electric impulse sufficient to set off the round. Not often, but once is enough to ruin your day, if not the rest of your life.

The design of the RPG-7 warhead was such that chain link fence can crush it and short out the firing impulse. That has saved a few lives, but the military seems to have forgotten that trick.

[neo-crossbow]

I'm pretty sure that some rifle grenades were fired with blank rounds, maybe before they came up with the bullet-catching design?


I know this to be true with the M1 Carbine, I also know that the grenade launching round was different to its blank round. Had more go go from memory.

They still can be purchased in the right circles, its a bit of a relic though

[Roaster72]

Google is your friend.

http://www.bloomautomatic.com/

Food for thought.