California Approves Bill To Microstamp Cartidges When Fired

[imported_Mr_Science]

http://infowars.com/articles/2nd_amendment/bullet_microstamp_nra_backing_ca_law.htm

While I am clearly against this, it seems very easy to bypass.....
-Pick up the cartidges after firing.
-Slightly grind the firing pin to remove the laser etching.

[Unsunghero]

Truly, I don't really see a problem with this. I think that if they have reason to trace it back then you've done something you shouldn't and should be brought to justice.

Obviously this is easy to bypass but it will catch the dumb criminals..it could help so why not? This doesn't restrict your gun rights in any ways does it? I don't see any logical reason to oppose this, besides maybe a small price increase..

[Hirudinea]

http://infowars.com/articles/2nd_amendment/bullet_microstamp_nra_backing_ca_law.htm

While I am clearly against this, it seems very easy to bypass.....
-Pick up the cartidges after firing.
-Slightly grind the firing pin to remove the laser etching.

I believe this is a California law, not a national one, which means that makers of "unmarked" replacement firing pins outside of California will have a new market.
Then again mabye some bright bulb will start selling "misleading" firing pins, an S&W pin for a Tarus, a Colt pin for a Glock, etc, there goes help for the police.

[LibertyOrDeath]

Unsunghero: The reason such a measure should be opposed is simply because it increases government power even further (or at least that's its intent).

Remember what the Second Amendment is all about: resisting the oppression of a government that has become tyrannical. In order for that to be done, the resistance would have to be a guerrilla war. That would entail lots of ambushes and clandestine activity, with the resisters attempting to keep their identities secret to the extent possible.

Fortunately, like people said, this microstamping is very easily defeated. Fire a round, then inspect the casing with the naked eye, a magnifying glass, or even a stereo microscope, just to be safe. Locate all imprints, then modify or replace firearms parts accordingly. Having extra parts is a good idea anyway, so might as well stock up now (unless the design of the new guns is modified so that older parts without the stamping mechanism don't fit).

It's also good that the microstamping rule doesn't apply to rifles (or shotguns, presumably), since these are much more important resistance weapons than mere handguns.

[Unsunghero]

Liberty, while I respect your view, I fail to see how that's the act of a draconian government. Micro stamping has the upside of increasing the security of it's people without having the downside of degrading freedom. The second amendment implies to resist the government on the grounds of a tyrannical act..this isn't a tyrannical act, in any way.

That has absolutely nothing to do with a draconian government, only the security of our government's people.

Someone has to defend them every once in awhile..

[LibertyOrDeath]

I understand where you're coming from, but I didn't mean to say that the microstamping law was itself draconian. It's just that such technology, even when genuinely well-intentioned, is very much ripe for abuse by a government that does become draconian -- e.g., kicking in peoples' doors at three in the morning and dragging them off to torture chambers for being "unpatriotic."

We're already at the point where very aggressive, Gestapo-like enforcement is used against people who commit victimless or consensual crimes, but things can and will get a lot worse. Every bit of power the government has -- whether technological or legal -- will just make it easier for the population to be controlled in the future, and more difficult to resist.

I know it may seem like this particular technology has greater benefits than dangers. But we have to keep the big picture in mind. Who is really policing the police and the government in this country? Do we really want to give them more power and control than they already have, even if it's only in small increments like this law?

So I'm not saying your position on this is unreasonable; I just don't quite agree with it because I've become extremely distrustful of the government and its attempts to limit our freedom and privacy by the proverbial "death by 1000 cuts." If I trusted the US government or the police then I might not oppose a law like this, but that trust has been completely destroyed.

[festergrump]

That has absolutely nothing to do with a draconian government, only the security of our government's people.

Apostophy S [ 's ] implies ownership. I am ruled by nothing but the US Constitution, not the government in any way. The government is supposed to serve us, not rule us!

Does microstamping actually make you feel safer? It's clearly nothing more than a step towards MORE gun restrictions.

Someone has to defend them every once in awhile..

Umm, no the fuck we don't. There has been nothing the government has done which actually BETTERED the society living within the boundaries of the USA for the American people as a whole in at least as many years as I have been alive.

You always see gun control laws beng put into effect but never see any progress towards slackening the grip on our freedoms. Why do you think that is, Unsunghero?

[Kaydon]

This doesn't affect our freedoms? How did you come to this conclusion, Unsunghero? It's a way for the government to track something someone is doing, regardless of the good it could serve. Everything that could serve for the "greater good" is used for the greater evil, once something like this passes they can expand it. By affecting privacy it is affecting freedom.

Now, a firing pin isn't a very hard piece to make provided you know someone who has a machine shop :) You could stock up. I would.

But, those of us not in CommieFornia, such as myself don't have a whole lot to worry about yet - best be prepared.

As far as defending the government, I'll defend my Government when they do what I want. Until then, I am bound by the United States Constitution as adopted in 1787 and no more!

[festergrump]

Now, a firing pin isn't a very hard piece to make provided you know someone who has a machine shop :) You could stock up. I would.

But it doesn't have to exactly BE the firing pin, either, does it? It could just as easily be the extractor, ejector, or the bolt face. Depending on the firearm, these could be very hard to manufacture or obtain if this were the case. It's just scary legislation all around, as you know. It's against privacy and freedom...

"...and we don't like that very much, do we, John?". :mad:

[Enkidu]

As far as defending the government, I'll defend my Government when they do what I want. Until then, I am bound by the United States Constitution as adopted in 1787 and no more!

Interestingly enough, the so-called 'Bill of Rights' (which contains your loved 'right to bear arms') was not a part of the Constitution in 1787.

Even when the amendment was passed, it only applied to the federal government's relationship with the states... not the federal government's relationship with the people.

And what's this about you defending anything? The government won't be doing exactly what you want until you're a dictator. Face it. This government and it's constitution (in all its politically and philosophically expedient interpretations) is FUCKED, as far as your goals are concerned (if they're anything like mine).

Who wants to go to the Mosquito Coast with me?

[Aristocles]

Apostophy S [ 's ] implies ownership. I am ruled by nothing but the US Constitution, not the government in any way. The government is supposed to serve us, not rule us!

Does microstamping actually make you feel safer? It's clearly nothing more than a step towards MORE gun restrictions.



Umm, no the fuck we don't. There has been nothing the government has done which actually BETTERED the society living within the boundaries of the USA for the American people as a whole in at least as many years as I have been alive.

You always see gun control laws beng put into effect but never see any progress towards slackening the grip on our freedoms. Why do you think that is, Unsunghero?

Well said.

If there has ever been an instance of the camel's nose argument being valid, it is ANYTHING that involves the US Government.

Just another example of superfluous, or more accurately, pointless legislation... it seems to me to be precisely what this government has done for many years, a slow and steady invasion of freedoms, until you end up like the frog in now boiling
water.

A government caught up in gridlock suits me just fine; otherwise they just, 'ad infinitum', legislate away freedoms.

[Charles Owlen Picket]

Tool marking identification -=IS=- micro stamping! This shit has already existed, it's just that it relies on a true forensic scientist to categorize the tool mark. The firing pin thing is butt-fuck simple.
Everyone has seen a Glock vertical firing pin print, right? Well if you magnify virtually all pin prints, you'll see unique qualities when compared to head space/breach impressions.

- This is a "feel-good" "we're doing something about evil guns" law....marvelously stupid. Only someone who knows nothing about firearms would think it viable. This is already in place, in that ID from a FP can be done today with present technology! There is NO NEED for some additional firing pin play-time.

[megalomania]

This law will be used to force gun store owners out of business, and law abiding gun owners to give up their guns. California seems to have an almost childlike naivety when it comes to gun laws because they only end up harming law abiding gun owners. They know full well the law can easily be defeated, and the gangs and thugs will not bother with such a thing. What they have done is hammer another nail into the coffin of legal gun ownership by creating yet another hoop for gun dealers to contend with. One violation, ONE MISTAKE and poof, your shop gets closed, you get fined into bankruptcy, and possibly imprisoned.

The more LEGAL gun stores and gun dealers the fedgov can crush, the fewer patriots will be left to oppose a future gun grab. The more legal gun store owners the fedgov can criminalize, the more people will be led to believe "guns are bad, m'kay."

The penalties for failing to comply with the law will be severe. Let one firearm slip into your inventory that does not comply, and your entire family will face the wrath of a corrupt fedgov! Believe you me, there will be undercover fedgov agents constantly trying to slip unlicensed weapons into the inventory, and otherwise confuse and bewilder gun store owners, and the owners of large arsenals of weapons (which according to the fedgov is 3+ firearms) into breaking the law.

Pass enough laws and you can't help but break at least one. They will pile on more, and more, and more draconian laws, as well as innocuous laws until they break the backs of the industry. Once they criminalize legal gun ownership enough it will become an impossible legal minefield to own weapons. Only very few people will be able to LEGALLY own weapons, and they will have have money, power, and expert legal consul to do so (fedgov stooges).

The goal of the fedgov is the complete extermination of all firearms. There will never be such a law on the books using that language. They will use legal trickery and manipulation to pass so many restrictive laws that there will be a de facto gun ban.

The fedgov once passed a law that said every parcel of marijuana sold had to have a tax stamp, like cigarettes. The fedgov never printed any of the stamps. Why a tax stamp for a substance that is already illegal? They wanted to add another charge to the list of offenses. What if they did this for firearms? What if they started selling guns like liquor licenses, meaning only a certain number per town? Gun ownership would be legal, but technically impossible under the law. What if they required an annual training session to own a firearm? January 3-15 in Alaska, fail to show up and all your guns get confiscated. What if they start requiring liability insurance to own a firearm? Can you afford a $150,000,000 policy that may cost in excess of $4000 a month? What about a bullet tax that tacks on $1.50 per BULLET?

Each new law that attacks gun ownership is part of the grand scheme to make it impossible for you to own guns. Voltaire once said the worst thing man can do is write down a freedom, because as soon as they do 100 lawyers will tell you why you don't have that freedom. Tell me this is not happening to our second amendment?

[Kaydon]

Interestingly enough, the so-called 'Bill of Rights' (which contains your loved 'right to bear arms') was not a part of the Constitution in 1787.

Even when the amendment was passed, it only applied to the federal government's relationship with the states... not the federal government's relationship with the people.

And what's this about you defending anything? The government won't be doing exactly what you want until you're a dictator. Face it. This government and it's constitution (in all its politically and philosophically expedient interpretations) is FUCKED, as far as your goals are concerned (if they're anything like mine).

Who wants to go to the Mosquito Coast with me?

Look at it like a preamble :)

Unsung said "someone has to defend them" so I say, no.

Mega, don't give them any ideas! Ha, once again, you hit the nail on the head.

These "little" laws are precursors for them to impose bigger, harmful, laws.

[Toggle]

While it is obscene that such a thing would be passed, you can can relax. It is very unlikely to ever happen. An unnamed hero slipped in a poison pill. Well *TWO* poison pills actually! If there aren't at least two manufacturers offering micro stamping equipped pistols by 1/1/2010 the law dies, AND the stamping technology must not be encumbered by patents (all micro stamping is covered by patents today). :)

Also after you shot enough through the gun, I'd expect the the stamp would wear to the point that it would be unreadable. Or after you used a file on it. Still if this law ever went into effect I wonder if Police/Military/Government would get themselves exempted. Just think what could be done with the micro stamped brass from a cop's gun. :D

[tmp]

In Maryland, all handguns sold are required to have some internal
safety system. Of course, the pork is exempt. Gun owners make
manufacturers pay heavily for betraying their customers.
Remember when Smith & Wesson nearly foreclosed ? They pissed off
loyal customers by sucking Bill Clinton's dick. With any luck
there won't be any manufacturers willing to lose customers.

[Charles Owlen Picket]

And don't forget Bill Ruger dropping to his knees, ever so quickly without so much as a "by your leave" he eagerly would swallow whole anything Congress wanted in his testimony before same....

[RobSmith]

A revolver wouldn't leave brass to find and try to track down, alternatively, brass picked up at the range and sprinkled around would have the same results (which one is the right one ?). So this legislation in general isn't worth the paper it's written on, much like Canadian gun laws ... Not to mention that the marking surfaces would wear down over time.

[Alexires]

That everyone can see through it leads me to think that it is probably just another control to get people used to being screwed.

Like you would train a horse with a blanket before a saddle, you train sheeple with laws that seem all good (but do nothing) before you screw them.

If any law encroaches on the freedom of its citizenry, it should be abolished. The only laws even close to being considered should have a damn good reason (for instance, 5 year olds taking drugs) but even still, those laws shouldn't exist. If someone fucks up and dies, it is natural selection.

We have dangerous things around us all the time (electricity for example) but how many people stick knives in power sockets? How many of those have an IQ above 80? My point exactly.

[megalomania]

I hope nobody learns they can police their brass as that would make this law... worthless.

[Man Down Under]

Or use a revolver, or a brass catcher, or from inside a vehicle with the windows rolled most of the way up, or ???

[Charles Owlen Picket]

Who are these law made FOR and BY? IDIOTS..... The "gang banger" who thinks (I use that term loosely) that they will not get caught and the law maker who thinks they can track anyone. The average "gang member" who has not been caught is a serious simpleton. They usually have a below average intelligence, they are low-functioning morons. They act out of impulse and generally so grotesquely stupid that it would surprise most people who have never spoken to one.

The law makers who think this garbage up are people who have blind faith in the police-state mentality and who also think that people act from impulse in committing violent acts. Both of which are looking toward each other as examples of their various positions. Outside of these are the people who think and act independently. That's really why the laws don't function adequately and many don't get caught. These laws are not made for the citizen; they are made for the animals. We don't need the laws if we don't have the animals in our midst (we don't really need the laws anyway, of course).

The biggest impact to the figures on violent crime were made when Kalifornia enacted the "3 Strikes" law wherein the repeat violent offender went away for good. Get rid of the animal and the laws become much more well thought out. The simple existence of the animal makes the law makers want to placate the masses with "feel-good" laws of useless solutions to non-existent problems.

When I was in school I was part of a pilot program that tested inner city youth gang members. Many of those "people" couldn't function beyond a third grade level; and this was decades ago! I would report to officials who were so sheltered that they actually thought that everyone was a "good" person inside. All that was necessary was for "society to meet their needs"....

[DetaDude]

CA is always coming up with some stupid assed law or regulation, in an effort to protect us from ourselves. This may be well intended but just remember ............ ........The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I damned well do not need any help from the goverment, Fed, State, or Local , just get the hell out'a our lives and leave us alone.