100+ kg High Explosive

[NameWithheld]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6TQVZrysqw

I'd had way too much sitting around my house for too long- decided to get rid of pretty much everything I have all at once (well.. still got like 10kg of various stuff.. :P) Threw everything together in the truck, grabbed some gas and diesel to make it look pretty... went about 20 miles out of town, at least a few miles from the nearest building... kaboom.

Took quite a while to set up the charge... it was -72 degrees Fahrenheit somewhere in Alaska on Friday, wasn't that cold here but still a bitch. Swear I'll never do anything like this in winter again.

[iHME]

Thats one awesome blast. I would have loved to see it in person. Too baad it is near impossible to do something similar here.

[High Density]

Well that’s a huge blast.
Your the first of many who said that they planned such an huge one, and actually did it.

Keep safe;)

[Cordtex]

Can you tell us how you packed all the stuff? How did the blast location look like after the explosion?

[Rbick]

Dude, you are my idol. I would trade my left nut to live where you live... Did you synthesize all of that ETN by yourself? Those must have been some big batches!

[NameWithheld]

Did you synthesize all of that ETN by yourself? Those must have been some big batches!

I was making ETN in 600g batches (approx) in 4 gallon kitchen sink tubs.

Works out well enough if you just add the sulfuric really slowly. The only runaway rxn I had was when I was purposely seeing how fast I could do the whole process.

[Lewis]

Impressive to say the least. Much better camera work than the last installment.

What sort of hole did that gouge in the earth? Was the charge buried? I would assume the frozen tundra would be pretty resilient to even that sort of force. A sizable crater would be quite a testament to the power of the blast. :)

[fiknet]

Very nice! The synth of that amount of ETN is a feat in itself. Congrats on being one of the very few to deliver the big charge promise.

[NameWithheld]

Impressive to say the least. Much better camera work than the last installment.

What sort of hole did that gouge in the earth? Was the charge buried? I would assume the frozen tundra would be pretty resilient to even that sort of force. A sizable crater would be quite a testament to the power of the blast. :)

It actually didn't do too much damage, but as you say- frozen earth is very damage resistant. It did leave a crater a couple feet deep, but as you know... almost all the force will go up and to the sides in a surface blast (the charge was not buried). It did however completely vaporize some metal army surplus ammo cans with various metal objects inside.. not to mention the propane canisters that were a part of the blast (propane canisters are heavy-duty chunks of metal). I couldn't find anything left of them.

[Rbick]

I was making ETN in 600g batches (approx) in 4 gallon kitchen sink tubs.

Works out well enough if you just add the sulfuric really slowly. The only runaway rxn I had was when I was purposely seeing how fast I could do the whole process.


I'm curious as to the quantites you use and the process. Do you use Nitric and Sulfuric? Or a nitrate salt and sulfuric? I can't imagine aquiring that quantity of nitric acid would be cheap.

[ChippedHammer]

Epic win :)

I think this is the biggest home made explosion by a member of RS, well done :D

[NameWithheld]

I'm curious as to the quantites you use and the process. Do you use Nitric and Sulfuric? Or a nitrate salt and sulfuric? I can't imagine aquiring that quantity of nitric acid would be cheap.

While I feel a bit lazy just linking you...

http://www.dererumomnis.org/bbs/index.php?topic=325.0

I briefly explain my "Fight Club style" method over on DRO :D

[Charles Owlen Picket]

This is a great example of using the weather to further a situation wherein the need for cooling would be an almost insurmountable obstacle. The use of climatic conditions in the north or north east or whatever; even just plain fucking Winter could allow for nitrations on a near industrial scale if the set-up were to use those conditions efficiently.

[NameWithheld]

Had to remove my YouTube videos. Sorry for any inconvenience.

[festergrump]

...and you're pulling the videos from this thread and THIS (http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?t=7005) thread because...? (I'm waiting for a big shocker here)...

Did we realize it probably wasn't a good idea to be posting videos of this nature online, or was there some other reason? Both are your threads, so I don't mind asking why one might give and then take away...

[NameWithheld]

A helper of mine mentioned something in passing to a family member... family member demanded I remove the videos. Rather pathetic, I'll admit.

[Rbick]

Well I'm assuming you have a federal blasting license to be blasting charges of that size. So why would it be a problem? Although I could be wrong and you don't have a license, which is fine because I don't either... :D I like how the federal gov't makes getting a license nearly impossible and if you do get it, they watch you like you're some criminal and have the right to "stop by" at any time to check up on you in the event you get your hand shoved too far up your ass.

[NameWithheld]

Anyone licensed in Alaska is even worse off than most places. The person doing all the regulatory stuff is a Nazi. She considers anyone with a bomb to be a terrorist just about..

[Enkidu]

Erm, maybe you should edit that post so that you leave us in the dark about having/not having a license.

[Lewis]

I suggest the video be re-uploaded to a less public location. It's too good of footage to remove all together. :(

[NameWithheld]

Sure, you have a site in mind?

[-=HeX=-]

How about the ftp? Or just make a geocities site. Or rapidshare? Streamload maybe?

By the way, congratulations on such a blast! Wish I had that amount of chemicals!

[Lewis]

Yes, if things aren't going to haywire with the roguesci servers, I'm sure mega would be happy to accommodate you somehow. If not, then rapidshit it!

[Vitalis]

Yes, please put this footage somewhere, I missed this thread until today...

[Silentnite]

While I'm sure it was a good blast, and everyone had a good laugh and went to the park afterward, I'm still bothered by the casualness of this thread. Don't get me wrong, blowing the crap out of a grapefruit is hilarious to me, and still my favorite method of seeing AP get used. But getting into 100kg+ and the rest is reckless, especially after the chastisement of the kiddo's in the other thread.

Regardless, this should be in the water cooler, not in HE.

[Enkidu]

This section is not strictly for synthesis discussion. While this thread would probably be better put in the Detonation and Demolition section, it is certainly beyond the scope of the Water Cooler. In addition, although some of the techniques may be considered reckless, why must recklessness be grounds for dismissal? When was the last success of this scale report and validated? :rolleyes:

[Lewis]

While I'm sure it was a good blast, and everyone
Regardless, this should be in the water cooler, not in HE.

How do you figure? This seems like the right place for it, perhaps it would fit better in detonation and demolition. However, the WC is a place for off topic and casual discussion. This seems very on topic to me.

If namewithheld wants to risk his life for our, and his own entertainment, well I say it's his business.

[Silentnite]

Name, for those of us that didn't see the movie. What kind of explosive was it? How did you ignite the charge?

[ChippedHammer]

I think it was:

96kg anfo
10kg etn
and some ng to taste

[High Density]

Maybey 4 kg ANNM also. ;)
And ETN detcord conected to +- 500 g ETN booster.

[Zait]

Well I'm assuming you have a federal blasting license to be blasting charges of that size.

There is no Fedgov blasting license. Each individual state licenses its blasters depending on the state regulations.

Google Search Link (http://www.google.com/search?q=blasters+license&sourceid)

[Bacon46]

You can post videos anonymously at hidebehind.com They ask no questions and the post doesn't expire.

Once a video or image is posted anonymously it cannot be undone.

[Rbick]

There is no Fedgov blasting license. Each individual state licenses its blasters depending on the state regulations.

Actually yes there is. I have a copy printed out and filed. Here is a site where you can download it (the ATF site). http://www.atf.gov/forms/pdfs/f540013.pdf

Yeah most states do have a separate license you need in conjunction with a federal license. There is even a block in there where you have to enter you state license number. This federal license isn't optional either, I don't think. It seems that you can have just a state license if you are employed by a company that has a federal license. So if you are on your own, you probably require both. Read the ATF orange book. Its really boring and retarded, and it wasted hours of my life that I want back!

Bacon: I don't care if they don't ask information. The IP from which the video was uploaded can give all of the information you need. You can see for yourself using cool programs like NeoTrace pro which give exact location based off of IP addresses alone. Unless they somehow keep the IP confidential anyway...

EDIT: You also need finger print cards. I had to call the ATF office in VA to get these. I also had a nice long talk with one of the agents there about getting a permit. They directed me to the local office for further information.

[Charles Owlen Picket]

Federal law always supersedes State law but both must be met. I know bit about this subject. Frankly the Orange book is so damn out-dated that if you really had an interest in licensing, I would get all my information direct from your local branch office. There are limited application levels of license, etc. You don't have to have what's known as the "20" (full) for limited use blasting. EVERYONE has to get a FP card: that's normal.

You know a lot of people have an issue with keeping their name out of any records; so they don't buy materials from a pryo chemical dealer, etc. IMO it might be better IF you think you may have visitors, to have made NO secret of your interests. Secretiveness in and of itself, invites further scrutiny. There is nothing wrong with license inquiry; no one should get bent over there. - well maybe in Kalifornia....

[Zait]

Actually yes there is. I have a copy printed out and filed. Here is a site where you can download it (the ATF site). http://www.atf.gov/forms/pdfs/f540013.pdf

Yeah most states do have a separate license you need in conjunction with a federal license. There is even a block in there where you have to enter you state license number. This federal license isn't optional either, I don't think.

That Federal form is a request for a license to manufacture, import or sell explosives or a permit to purchase explosives. It is NOT a license to blast. You can possess an ATF license/permit and not be licensed to blast in any state.

A blasting license is required to "blast" or detonate you charge legally in the state you are doing business in. If you have a blasting license in a state you still have to have an ATF license/permit to legally purchase, possess or store the explosives that you use in your blasting business. People sometimes confuse the ATF "User" permit with a blasters license but they are very different.

The exception to a blasters license is granted in some states under the farm clause that basically allows you to purchase and detonate explosives on your farm as a part of your farm business as long as you expend anything that you purchased on the same day that you purchased it. If you store it over night THEN you need a license from the ATF. If I recall correctly under the new rules you still have to have an ATF user permit, limited permit or a user-limited permit to buy the explosives for your farm.

Oh and the Orange book is out of date. If you are using it as a reference you need to update to the new book that was released in Nov. 07 and is available on the website.

[TORCHed]

I see the link has been taken down. I haven't had a chance to see the video before it was taken down, but wondering why you had to pull it from YouTube. Like others have already stated, post it up as a Rapidshare type download, or I'm more than willing to host it on one of my website providers.

[Rbick]

A blasting license is required to "blast" or detonate you charge legally in the state you are doing business in. If you have a blasting license in a state you still have to have an ATF license/permit to legally purchase, possess or store the explosives that you use in your blasting business. People sometimes confuse the ATF "User" permit with a blasters license but they are very different.

I know this, I think the confusion came in when I used license and permit interchangeably. Point being if you're on your own, like most of us here are, you need both to blow stuff up legally unless under the supervision of someone holding a ATF permit. I've been trying to find someone to apprentice under in my state for ever but people are damn hard to find! I hate how the gov't makes it impossible to actually achieve a license for something I just want to do as a harmless but fun and dangerous hobby.

Hell they should make getting a drivers license just as hard. It would take over a year to get it and a lot more money. More people die in car accidents than they ever will from explosives.

Thanks for directing me towards that new manual, I can't wait to dive into that exciting bit of new literature... :D

[Hinckleyforpresident]

Sometimes you even need to get sound permits and specialized town blasting permits to blast, never mind the fed and state permits required..... So much regulation :(.....

[Shadowmartyr]

I'm eager to see this det, and unfortunately like others above me I only saw this thread after you removed the youtube video, any chance you could put it up on rapidshare or the FTP for us to download?

Thanks

[Dr. Hextromeister]

Does anyone know if this has been uploaded to the FTP yet? If it was, please specify which folder it\'s currently residing in.

Also, never post videos of this nature on You Tube. A member over at the APC Forum had a visit for posting a few ground salute tests not too long ago.

[NameWithheld]

It has been rapidshat.

http://rapidshare.com/files/109784470/Blast_Two.zip.html

For the record the harddrive I actually kept the vids on died.

I lost the footage of my first large blast entirely.

This one had to be put on my computer from the camera again (and I lost the movie I had made)

[Ethyl]

Very nice video!! Congratulations on that!! I am sure it required a lot of work and effort to make that much explosives.

What do you think how far could a large explosion like that be heard?

[NameWithheld]

Very nice video!! Congratulations on that!! I am sure it required a lot of work and effort to make that much explosives.

What do you think how far could a large explosion like that be heard?

Due to the extremely remote nature of the blast, I have no way of knowing if anyone besides myself heard the blast.

That said, any surface blast, even just a few pounds of explosives, will be tremendously loud. Combine that with ideal sound propagation settings due to the nature of mid-winter Alaska weather (extreme cold and extremely low humidity) and I find it likely that the sound would have traveled in a straight line as far as the valley extended. I would not be at all surprised if someone 30 or more miles away heard it- climate can have interesting effects on sound up here.

That said, to the best of my knowledge no one lives in that entire valley. The nearest occupied residences are over 2 large hills, I imagine the sound would be quite deadened by then.

If I somehow could calculate, or if I had measured the original decibel peak of the blast, and had a good topographical map and record of local weather conditions at the time, it would be possible to estimate the decibels of the blast at various ranges from ground zero. However, this would require being a physicist or acoustic expert, which I am not :(

Sound propagation is fascinating nonetheless, there's plenty of literature on the topic. http://www.sfu.ca/sonic-studio/handbook/Sound_Propagation.html

[Lewis]

Indeed it is an interesting topic. I'm curious as to what the best explosive would be for maximum decibel level. For some reason I could imagine some flash mixes as being more able to 'create loudness' than high explosives.

[Barnacles]

I may be totally incorrect here, but I have a vague memory of a member called REDSKY, not sure if it was on here. but he set off a 12 kg charge and it made the newspaper in england people from 40 miles away reported a loud sound and some thought it was a meteorite.

I tend to think like this about the sound its probably not so good but. A gun fires maybe 1/2 -2 grams of powder I am guessing. 100kg is 100,000 grams, thats the sound of 100,000 guns firing...

Keep this in mind,cloudy days are bad for blasts, the clouds actually concentrate the sound back downwards. this makes for a louder bang, and makes it more likely you will shatter windows.also factor in temperature and whether its raining, how humid it is outside. Denser air transmits the sound faster/farther I believe.

[AlaskanMBR]

In Alaska, the state will issue a certificate of fitness for blasting (another name for blasting license); good for transporting, using, possessing explosives ANYWHERE in the state except for on a coal mine property. The state issues that one through the DNR, and it's only good on a coal property.

The hardest part of getting the Cert. is having 1 year's experience under a licensed blaster (it's 2 years on-property experience for coal). The test is ridiculously easy if you're familiar with industrial explosives.

[Charles Owlen Picket]

....A gun fires maybe 1/2 -2 grams of powder I am guessing. 100kg is 100,000 grams, thats the sound of 100,000 guns firing...

Remember we also have a threshold of human hearing that once exceeded...all is a roar.

The model presented [above]...doesn't quite work like that.... A firearm has a focused tube which displaces gas (the barrel), this makes for a direction and a specific type of sound to the human ear. It "parts the Red Sea" so to speak ....in terms of the method of gases moving through air.
Now you have an explosion of an HE which is faster than the speed of sound and would most likely spread the diffused gases in many directions at once (let's use a simple pipe bomb model).
Depending upon WHERE the sensor was located the firearm could be louder or the HE could be louder if we factor in canyons and buildings.

The variables are quite vast and need to be defined before any reasonable result could be extrapolated.

[Barnacles]

Charles, while what you are saying probably has some bearing as I will not debate what your claims are as I have no reference that says otherwise, I am simply going by my observations, that every blast seen has been comparatively larger in terms of sound.

I have shot guns and compared to open blasts I have heard, (My friends dad is actually a Mine blaster and occasionally when I go to the boonies shows me a nice open blast.) ANd for the most part the sounds created by the blasts have been louder by a great degree. Of course factors such as charge placement underground or tamped and other things.Simply stated in my experience a openly placed charge is exponentially louder than an openly fired shotgun or rifle. I have never heard a gun shot that sounded louder than even a open shot blasting cap...

While there is more dispersion with HE , I find more of a whoomph. Also I have checked some charts on decibles and it shows guns produce a maximum 160 decibles but average 133 at ear level, peaks at 150-160 it claims, While a quarter stick of dynamite is 175 decilbles, very close peaks at 210 , Or 1 pound of tnt is 194.1 decibles at 6 feet. I just looked up these numbers while posting. I do not know to much about sound as you can tell but if you can tell me are decibles when increased not an exponential increase? Sort of like the richter scale how 2 on the scale is not double 1 in terms of power unleashed?

For the sake of this argument I think it would be best to assume the variables of both the blast and gun shot are in open fields. And the sound no more contained than the car or the barrel of the gun.

[Emil]

Yes you are right about REDSKY. The guy set off a 12kg charge of ANNM in a field, which was damn close to a very busy motorway (highway for the yanks).

Heres the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rsg76QjDTiE

After he blew off his garage door with some TCAP, the neighbours called the cops and he was arrested. To top it off, he kept TCAP in the family fridge, where the rest of his family had access to it. He was unmistakebly a k3wl idiot, and ended up with a little visit to jail.

You can tell by the video that this blast was extremely loud, even the cops heard it down at the local station.

Noise is always an issue with energetics, and it's about the only factor that prevents many of us from carrying out experiments. Your location needs to be sized up greatly before even thinking of carrying out any little "blasts".
Domestic areas are a big no no, and unless you have an area which you know is clear from the watchful eyes of others, it shloud be kept well away from.

At the end of the day, A few grammes of material is still pretty damn loud, and in the wrong area, could damn well raise alarm bells. Of course we all alike, wait for those special few days of the year where one can innocently mask his disturbances amongst the pretty looking fireworks :D

[AlaskanMBR]

When I was first learning to make homemade tannerite I brought it to a rifle range to test it out. I forgot how close the range was to the nearest fire station.

The fire department showed up... OOPS! Luckily it was a bunch of my buddies, and after I explained what it was they thought it was pretty cool. Small town life can be pretty cool sometimes.

[NameWithheld]

Sorry to change topic rather abruptly...

But I've recently come into possession of several hundred pounds of ammonium nitrate based fertilizer- unfortunately it also contains a significant amount (20-40%) of ammonium sulfate.

While there are various methods available for isolating the nitrate, many of these are not practical for a home experimenter with quantities of... oh say, 300kg.

I'm sure there are many others out there on this forum who have done this- does anyone have suggestions for what method to use, and practical advise for the process?

The sooner I process this stuff the sooner you guys will get the car demo I talked about :P

[Microtek]

You may want to research the maximum amount of the sulfate that can be present in ANFO or similar compositions. As far as I know, adding ammonium sulfate to AN decreases initiation senistivity, but doesn't reduce blast since it partakes in the detonation. However, I don't know how much is acceptable.

[NameWithheld]

You may want to research the maximum amount of the sulfate that can be present in ANFO or similar compositions. As far as I know, adding ammonium sulfate to AN decreases initiation senistivity, but doesn't reduce blast since it partakes in the detonation. However, I don't know how much is acceptable.

I'll get some tests done this fall with straight fertilizer grade AN/sulfate in blasts, but actually I was planning to use a lot of it for creating ETN and other more powerful HE that use mixed acid baths- that said, I don't suppose the sulfate would matter much.

Since for most applications I won't need extremely pure AN, I'm currently thinking of just taking advantage of the fact that AN is more water soluble than sulfate to separate them...

Unless someone has a better idea? :)

[Happy Hindu]

Ammonium sulphate is non soluble in alcohol, and ammonium nitrate is fairly soluble in methanol. This would give you quite pure ammonium nitrate, if you could get your alcohol cheap enough, or just wanted a small amount of pure reagent.

[fluoroantimonic]

Here's an idea, use anhydrous ammonia, ammonium nitrate is extremely soluble in it (389.6g/100g) while ammonium sulfate and most other impurities are not soluble at all. It is very volatile, so drying the AN would be extremely fast although smelly. It should also suck out alot of the trace water in the AN. 1000 kg of 70% AN fertilizer would only require 180 kg of NH3 if you didn't recycle it and even less if you did. A saturated solution of AN in NH3 has a vapor pressure of less that 1 atmosphere even though pure NH3 boils at -33*C. The processing could be done in 5 gallon bucket sized batches as follows:

In a 5 gallon bucket add fertilizer, add appropriate amount of NH3, allow to dissolve and warm up (dissolving AN in NH3 absorbs heat like it does in water), then heat the bucket (maybe boiling water bath?) until the NH3 is mostly stopped coming off. If you wanted to recycle it, you would attach a tube from the heated bucket to another bucket full of AN and a little NH3 to aid absorption and replace losses, as it boiled off of the one bucket it could simply be absorbed into the other.

The process could be repeated over and over again. Very little NH3 would be wasted, I would bet 1000 kg of fertilizer could be made very pure with less than 20 kg of NH3 if you were careful.

Pure ammonia is used as a fertilizer in compressed tanks where it is injected directly into the soil or mixed with water first. It should be dirt cheap in farming areas, I don't know about availability in places with less farming. You could always make it yourself too. Cheapest ammonium fertilizer (sulfate, nitrate, etc.) mixed with NaOH or Ca(OH)2 would work well. You could even use your waste ammonium sulfate to make more NH3 if needed!

It would be a bit hazardous because NH3 is somewhat toxic, but if it was done outside with a bit of wind you would be fine, it is quite a bit lighter than air too.

[Happy Hindu]

Im fairly sure that anhydrous ammonia isn't freely avalible OTC anymore due to its use in methamphetamine production. That might just be in Australia but i'm pretty sure its the same everywhere.

[fluoroantimonic]

Another possibility for this is methanol (works much better than ethanol). It is not nearly as effective a solvent as NH3, but it is much easier to get, at least for those of us in the US. 1g of AN dissolves in 8 ml of methanol at room temp. At near boiling it will be better, maybe 3 or 4 ml per gram. It would be more work, but one could do a similar process to the one described above with methanol instead.

100 kg would require roughly 280 liters if not recycled and maybe 30 if recycled efficiently. It would work, but I think the anhydrous NH3 would be a better choice.

[NameWithheld]

Glad to see people throwing fun ideas out there :P

An idea that popped up during correspondence with another pyro not on this forum was reacting calcium nitrate with the fertilizer- turning the ammonium sulphate into ammonium nitrate and largely insoluble calcium sulphate.

While this sounds simple... even just drying out 500 lbs. of AN after the reaction would be a massive undertaking >_<

[Emil]

well I have been waiting for the car demo you speak of with great excitement.

Purifying that ammount of anything is one hell of a task, given you're an experimenter with no industrial size tools or facilities. Maybe doing a few small scale tests will help you out with this small problem. How about trying to see if the AN can just be used in it's current state. I would assume you would be going the ANNM route opposed to ANFO?? If so, see how the contaminated AN performs. If it still shoots ok, and performs reasonably well, I would recommend cutting out the huge purifying task.

Opposed to that option, you have the other route you stated. Using your AN as a nitrate to synthesise another explosive (ETN). Of course this would be pretty costly, assuming you would have to purchase alot of ETN and H2SO4.

It's either that or you might want to get a friend or two to help you start purifying it via the classic water method. The only thing I have against this method is sometimes there is quite a substantial loss of product, and the collected nitrate/water solution, needs to be reboiled several times in order to collect all the dissolved product. Very time consuming, but It can be done on a big scale, beings as all you are using is water, and Nitrate.

Unlike Sodium nitrate, with AN you also have the problem of it's love of water. Drying isn't quite as simple as you need a powerful decissant to draw the water away, otherwise it will just be an evil cycle.

Good luck and keep us posted!

[fluoroantimonic]

I think the problem of drying the AN after using the water purification method would outweigh the problems of dealing with ammonia.

And if ammonia isn't available its pretty simple to make. All you'd need to do is use a bit of the fertilizer mixed with water and some cheap portland cement which is largely CaO. The resulting ammonia could be piped directly in to a bucket full of fertilizer where it would be absorbed. The leftover waste ammonium sulfate from each batch could be used to make more ammonia to replace losses. It would be a lot of work, but wouldn't it be worth it to have a few hundred kilos of nice dry pure AN?? A five gallon HDPE bucket will hold about 10 kilos of fertilizer, and it might take 10 to 30 minutes to do a bucket (dissolve - filter - distill - repeat), so maybe three days worth of work to do 1000 kilos of fertilizer (I'm just using 1000 as a nice round number)? That doesn't sound like a big deal to me, just do a couple hundred kilos every weekend and it'd be done before you know it.

Once you had the ammonia mostly boiled out of the AN you could just wait till a hot sunny day and lay it out on a tarp to dry. I'm sure a few percent absorbed NH3 wouldn't hurt its explosive properties much either.

Hell and while you're at making a big ass detonation, I thought it might be fun to try one of nbk2000's ideas of making a strong surfactant solution and bubbling an explosive mix into it forming a huge mass of explosive gas that is still fairly safe. Oxy-acetylene comes to mind as well as oxy-propane and nitrous oxide-acetylene. You could produce the pile of bubbles right on top of the charge of your choice to increase the effect. Anyone up for a few hundred kilos of ANFO plus 10 or 20 cubic meters of nitrous-propane? Someday... NameWithheld will have a much better chance of going through with it than I.

[Barnacles]

I doubt we will get to see this demo, seeing as he was so paranoid to have deleted the other videos, no offense but this is like a teaser , and shouldn't even be allowed unless you are strictly talking about detonating, without video. I don't like to be told there is a video of something to only have it deleted 30 seconds later and never get to see it, and then have to go through a thread that consists of people asking for the video.

[-=HeX=-]

Barnacles: dont worry about it. He already has done two monster size blasts, and I doubt that doing a third will be a problem. As for the videos, if I did such a blast I would be paranoid as hell too. Anyways even if he (Or she, cant discriminate now can we?) does not do it, the ideas brought up are good anyway. I was finally able to download the videos but I have not yet watched them.

I personally think that you should do some tests to see if it will shoot contaminated, and if it will, use a huge booster of ETN.

[Emil]

I doubt we will get to see this demo, seeing as he was so paranoid to have deleted the other videos, no offense but this is like a teaser , and shouldn't even be allowed unless you are strictly talking about detonating, without video. I don't like to be told there is a video of something to only have it deleted 30 seconds later and never get to see it, and then have to go through a thread that consists of people asking for the video.

Barnacles. I think it is fair to say in these times that being paranoid is actually quite a smart thing. You aren't going to slap it on youtube, and start posting flyers around the town to advertise it now are you?

Normally you would have reason to doubt a member who posts up something about a huge explosion which he is going to film, as it usually ends up with the hype being created, the member dissapearing and never hearing from him/her again.

This is not the case here, as we have already seen that this member is a genuine member who has actually provided us with some excellent footage. The videos were not deleted that quick after being posted up, they were actually up for a few weeks if I am not mistaken.

[NameWithheld]

I doubt we will get to see this demo, seeing as he was so paranoid to have deleted the other videos, no offense but this is like a teaser , and shouldn't even be allowed unless you are strictly talking about detonating, without video. I don't like to be told there is a video of something to only have it deleted 30 seconds later and never get to see it, and then have to go through a thread that consists of people asking for the video.

All would be valid attacks, except I believe you fail to notice I re-added the footage via Rapidshape after removing them from YouTube. As Emil has said.. posting on YouTube is a rather poor idea.

The blast will happen unless something major comes up. It will probably be somewhere around October- November. These things take time, and in the case of purifying hundreds of pounds of chemicals with no industrial setup... lots of time :P

[mil&co]

I don't think purification is needed.

I know for a fact that ANFO using fertilizer with 75% AN can be set off (not even buried) with a booster (ANNM) 10% the weight of the total charge.

So basically all you need is a blender, oven, diesel and a couple liters of NM.

[fluoroantimonic]

Sure it might detonate, but I would bet it will be an inferior detonation. Maybe that doesn't matter though, just buy fertilizer more I guess. I've looked at some patents on sensitivity reduction on AN fertilizer, there's many ways of doing it in addition to/other than adding lots of ammonium sulfate. I guess you have to hope their desensitizing method isn't very good! :(

Maybe if I had a couple liters of NM, I might do that. But you see I don't, and neither do most people as far as I know. It is not an easy thing to get here, so send me a couple liters of NM and I'll try it... better yet, send a couple kilos of PETN and I'll tell you if that works too! :P

I think a more easily attainable booster would be a few kilos of DBSP (maybe a $100 worth?) with acetone. Of better yet, mixed with molten ETN 2:1. Speaking of which, anyone know the OB of DBSP? I would think it would be near 0 to reduce corrosion/toxic gases but I've never actually seen. And are there any hard numbers on NG/NC content other than MSDSs? They always show huge ranges like 10-60%...

[Ethyl]

Interesting. I didn't know ammonium nitrate can be so contaminated and still work for ANFO. Does it matter what is the contaminant or can it be anything and it still works?

[Bert]

Speaking of which, anyone know the OB of DBSP? I would think it would be near 0 to reduce corrosion/toxic gases but I've never actually seen. And are there any hard numbers on NG/NC content other than MSDSs? They always show huge ranges like 10-60%...

Modern double based powders top off at around 40% NG. Smokeless powder is optimized for production of hot gas at a rate specific to the application it is designed for, not for a perfect Oxygen balance. Blasting gelatine IS optimized for Oxygen balance, and may be in the range of 90% NG.

[fluoroantimonic]

Yes it does mater what the contaminant is. While extremely insensitive and not very powerful ammonium sulfate still does detonate along with the AN. If it was contaminated with something like SiO2 or CaCO3 it would be even harder to detonate and even less powerful. If you have a big enough booster you can detonate AN with just about any amount of contamination.

And bert, the powders I've seen all had a bit of NG, 10 to 40% i think and a bunch of NC, like 50 to 80% with a 10-15% of other non explosive things, burn rate adjusters, binders, etc. Both NC and NG have and OB not far off 0 IIRC, so why would the DBSP not be? After all, an OB of 0 should mean the most energy released, you would think that would be ideal.

[Rbick]

Better oxygen balance also means less crappy solid by products that gum up the weapon. You can tell a difference with quality of ammunition. For instance, if you fired 100 rounds of the cheap ass Wolf 5.56 ammo, it would be much more dirty (more unburned Carbon) than if you shot 100 rounds of Hornady match ammo. I assume this is due to more impurities and a poor oxygen balance.