Copying Banknotes

[dinkydexy]

i think most of us have tried it at some point and discovered it's not possible...digital watermarks etc etc.

This thread is not to be a discussion about how the powers that be manage to pull off this neat little trick, it's intended to be place where people who've managed to defeat the embedded security systems in most modern banknotes share their 'how to' knowledege with the rest of us plebs.

So...

[Bugger]

It is most unlikely that even the most recent scanners and laser and inkjet printers could have caught up with, and thereby prevent the copying of, ALL current banknotes of ALL major countries whose currencies are easily negotiable.

[dinkydexy]

Thanks Bugger, I'll try that method. Can't see it working, though.

[Mr Science]

And note, most US bills have red thread inside of them as an anti-counterfeit measure ($100's at least), and obviously the images in between the paper would be difficult to procure. If you were to duplicate bills, you would need a pretty sophisticated setup in my opinion to get everything right.

[Charles Owlen Picket]

Years ago there was a Canon copier that some folks made some ones & fives on that passed through change machines at various DIY car washes in the SW USA.
But the point of the exercise was NOT copying currency ...but checks! AlJazeera got hit for small fortune with this scam some time back. The story was interesting & very funny but sounds like it could not be done anymore.

[Enkidu]

Has anyone actually handled counterfeit currency before? I have some friends who have... but I, myself, have not.

How common do you think counterfeit currency is in the 'underground' networks, like organized crime rings, drug rings, smuggling operations, etc? Obviously, it's in greater concentration there, and, I imagine, that's where the proliferation of counterfeit currency to legit business and to other individuals who are outside of the organized crime rings begins. I always see the 'No bills larger than $20 after 3:00 PM' signs in legit businesses, and I wonder just how common counterfeit currency is...

[Silentnite]

Call me stupid, but I've never understood counterfeiting currency larger then $20. Although you get lazy cashiers from time to time, its almost always checked. And they're almost all new and the old ones have been phased out pretty quickly. Now, as to $5 & $10 bills. How often do you pay attention to those? I've gotten $5 bills that felt like tissue paper just due to the fact it was 15+ years old.

I can tell you though, Kinko's frowns on you copying money in their stores. I got some pretty dirty looks. Even though it was on a research paper on counterfeiting.

[Bugger]

Sometime in the 1970s or 1980s, the East German Secret Police (STASI) made a series of printing-plates, along with reproduction banknote paper, for counterfeiting U$ banknotes, mostly high denominations. The counterfeits, called "super-bills", were so good that they were undetectable by any of the regular means for detecting counterfeit U$ banknotes. They sold either finished counterfeit banknotes, or the printing-plates and paper, to the revolutionary Iranian Government in the 1980s, which released billions of dollar$ worth of them into circulation. They are believed to be still almost all in circulation.
I have heard of counterfeit U$ banknotes being used in drug deals, to buy the drugs, safe in the knowledge that the ripped-off drug sellers could not possibly complain to the Pigs when they eventually found out that the notes were fakes. I heard of one case of a drug deal in Florida some years ago, in which counterfeit banknotes were exchanged for fake drugs! - both parties were nabbed by the Pigs, who had been spying on them.

[Enkidu]

*Bump*

This thread is again open.

[FUTI]

I have read some news recently about some kids in east Europe that make banknotes (I hope local currency not $ or euro) using good color printer and I guess scanner. My guess is that they work a lot experiments on that one with photo processing software and naturally lot of trial and error routine to get the right printout from the printer cartridge they used. Fun part they used the money to buy themselves the candies, ice-creams and kids stuff until someone get suspicious. I'm curious would they spank their asses since they most likely can't put them to jail due to the fact they are minors , or would they give them the job in some three letter agency? Advanced are the youth of today...;-)

[Mr Science]

Asides from giving people money physically, I know vending machines and other related devices are relatively easy to fool.

I remember back when I was in middle school, there were a few students who used a normal copy machine to duplicate $1 bills, and used this to buy whatever from the vending machines. Of course, they didn't keep this a secret, and word quickly got to teachers, who confirmed this when someone opened up the machines to indeed discover some 'bills' were just copied pieces of paper. I remember hearing afterwards that the local police got involved, and even the FBI visited their house at some point to talk with them, but they never did get in trouble legally, most likely because they were ~14 year olds.

So from that, I can imagine it still being relatively easy to duplicate money (only for vending machines, obviously physically handing someone the fake money would be a different story). I do wonder what change machines scan on larger $5/10 bills, which validates them as legitimate money...

[Silentnite]

There's an old thread on this, talking about how far in a machine reads a bill before it just accepts it. About an inch or so down.

[JohnG]

Well finally a post I can make a significant contribution to!

Years ago (1994-5) SWIM was into counterfeiting. SWIM managed to pass 20's (US) with only one major scare. SWIM used a PC and color laser printer (unbelievably expensive at the time). Paper was 20lb weight 25% cotton by Crane Co., no water mark.(Coincidently they make the paper for US money). I the put it in a dryer with some media to give it a used/beat up appearance. Pre-1993 series bills didn't have many of the security features there are now.

The main problem is the feel. US bill use intaglio printing, (which is high impact) that give it it's distinctive feel. Today you must also consider there is a watermark, and the security thread. The little red & blue threads are cotton threads within the paper, they were put there to detect counterfeits decades ago.

SWIM quit after my one scare, and went on to counterfeiting fake id's for a couple of years.

Several thing to consider (for US money):

1. Bills are magnetic. This is one check for most vending machines. There are experiments you can do to show this trait.

2. UV light. Try putting a bill under a UV light, you'll see that it fluoresces. Then try a bill that went through the wash, and it doesn't.

3. The pen test. I believe it is an iodine pen, that reacts with a chemical in the paper. (it also washes out).

4. Do not use a inkjet printer! The ink will bleed when wet. (A bit of a concern if you or the person you are passing it to has sweaty hands).

5. The security thread. When bills were first introduced with the thread people would bleach off a $5 and then print a $20 (or $50,$100) onto the legit paper. When this came to light they moved the thread around for each different bill.

Nowadays people are a bit more knowledgeable about money. Many stores use the pen. You see in the news teens trying to pass fake bills at school, etc. Also many printers will print a hidden "code" on every document (there is a thread about that).

Enkidu,
The sign "no bills larger than..." isn't typically to foil counterfeiting, but to prevent major loss due to a burglary. Not needing to have change in the register to break a fifty or a hundred cuts down on money in the register. Many small stores have a drop safe near the register, so the cashier can safely put away excess money.

[Hirudinea]

Years ago (1994-5) I was into counterfeiting.

The main problem is the feel. US bill use intaglio printing, (which is high impact) that give it it's distinctive feel. Today you must also consider there is a watermark, and the security thread. The little red & blue threads are cotton threads within the paper, they were put there to detect counterfeits decades ago.

Several thing to consider (for US money):

1. Bills are magnetic. This is one check for most vending machines. There are experiments you can do to show this trait.

Could this be simulated by putting some iron powder into the black toner in the colour laser printer?

2. UV light. Try putting a bill under a UV light, you'll see that it fluoresces. Then try a bill that went through the wash, and it doesn't.

3. The pen test. I believe it is an iodine pen, that reacts with a chemical in the paper. (it also washes out).

Would a chemical treatment before printing be able to simulate these two effects?

5. The security thread. When bills were first introduced with the thread people would bleach off a $5 and then print a $20 (or $50,$100) onto the legit paper. When this came to light they moved the thread around for each different bill.

Could you simulate this gluing a strip between two thin pieces of paper, to form one piece, before printing, or do you it would be possible to make your own paper?

Nowadays people are a bit more knowledgeable about money. Many stores use the pen.

The UV lights are very popular here, but I suspect if a bill looks good, and passes the pen or ultraviolet test (faked) that most cashiers would take it, especially if they're busy.

[Demolition Man]

SWIM got arrested by the Secret Service around 2000, for counterfeiting $ 10s. What JohnG says is mostly true for SWIM as well, but SWIM took the easier route: Use them to get back change, not to buy things. SWIM had a little cadre spend the $10s on some candy, and get back real cash in return.

The downfall was when one of the bills melted (heavy bond paper too!) after being dropped in a wet spot on the counter of a convenience store. The charges were eventually dropped and SWIM was given community service, but since then, SWIM has been able to hold a professional license, buy firearms, and vote, for what good that does.

++++++++++++++++++

I've edited your post with SWIM (someone who isn't me) see that you use it in the future.

-totenkov

[Jefferson Davis]

Im new here but figured I would toss a few of my ideas towards this discussion. Ive never tried any of these ideas mentioned except when I comment on making paper as a teen..
Anyways when I was a teen in art class we made our own paper for a few projects. It was 50% cotton blend that once dried held up nice if you used the correct binders. So since the currency paper is a cotton base would it not be easier for a person to make the paper themselves? ( The cotton pulps can be purchased over the internet from many sources.)
And considering water marking is just a old printer trick. I would think using embossed copper screens with the design to make the paper thicker in some spots than others causing the design to show when held to light. This has to be done while the paper is still wet. Usually during the pressing.
I would also think that the color threads in the paper could be added as well during the first pulp mixing.
UV dyes can be added as well to give that nice bluish glow and are sold all over the internet.
The hard part is fooling the pen since its the most widely used. But I do know from my days as a store clerk the detection pens do not change color when writing on new papers. So I assume it is some chemical treatment the new print is given to help hold the ink.

Anyways these are just a few ideas I figured I would toss into the mix.

****************

Use [better] punctuation next time.

-Hinckleyforpresident

[monkeyboy]

Recently had the pleasure of taking apart a bill acceptor.

VERY interesting.

It has three sensors in it. two of them are just cassette tape heads to read the pattern of the magnetic ink. The third is a small ccd (pretty sure it's monochrome, not enough circuitry there for color), less than a 1/4" in diameter. It is dead center in the bill & does not move, just taking a picture of a thin line up the middle of the bill. The mag heads also do not move, just taking a magnetic image stripe (I would think also less than a 1/4" wide) about an inch either side of center.

Counterfeit detector pens are just looking for starch:
James Randi explains what they are
http://www.randi.org/jr/120304youve.html#1


A reader tests it out by getting caught with a starched bill
http://www.randi.org/jr/070105quality.html#7

[ChippedHammer]

Our money (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_20_dollar_note) is much harder to counterfeit, the combination of being made of polypropylene and being printed in high resolution color makes it next to impossible to make a decent fake. Every fake not I have seen was easily identified by taking more than a quick glance at it.

It wouldn't surprise me if the USA heads down this path in a few years, maybe they can tie it in with going metric and getting rid of their other bastardized standards :)

[Hirudinea]

Recently had the pleasure of taking apart a bill acceptor.

VERY interesting.

Sounds like it could be spoofed easily enough.

Counterfeit detector pens are just looking for starch:
James Randi explains what they are


Then just find a paper that dosn't react with iodine (yes, thats what they said is in the pens) and you can print bills to your heart content.

Our money (Australian) is much harder to counterfeit, the combination of being made of polypropylene and being printed in high resolution color...

Yea I think it would be a good idea to go with "plastic" money here too, but haven't some people had alergic reactions to the money?

It wouldn't surprise me if the USA heads down this path in a few years, maybe they can tie it in with going metric and getting rid of their other bastardized standards

Piss on metric! To quote Grandpa Simpson "The metric system is a tool of the devil, my car gets 40 rods to the hogshead and thats the way I like it!"

[monkeyboy]

Piss on metric! To quote Grandpa Simpson "The metric system is a tool of the devil, my car gets 40 rods to the hogshead and thats the way I like it!"

It, along with stinky cheese & the fine art of surrender, was invented by the French. 'Nuff said...

[ChippedHammer]

To bad you are already using it, when was the last time you measured something for a synth in ounces, grains or fluid ounce's?

[mike-hunt]

This thread has got me thinking about the poker machines we have here in Australia in almost every pub and club they except all our notes and the ones in smaller pubs without security cameras might be ideal for passing counterfeit currency unless the machines have there own cameras like in an A.T.M. . It would be interesting to find out what type of sensors the bill readers have and any other type of security features of the machines .I love the idea of stealing from poker machines but as a good law abiding citizen wouldn't try it myself.

[Rasputin]

I am not at all an expert in this field, but, it seems to me that forged banknotes would have the most success when used on some type of automatic bill reader.
As far as trying to pass them to a physical person goes, that's a different story. Yes its possible, although i'd think that the experience of the clerk who is accepting the (pseudo)currency is a big factor. If you were talking about a potential operation to make a good profit on, one would have to make HIGH quality replicas.

Also as far as the risk factor goes, at least in the United States, counterfeit currency can get the secret service really upset.

I, personally, would prefer to try some other type of financial instrument, i.e. money orders, cashier's checks, traveler's checks, or even some type of privately issued voucher of some sort... now that i think about it, that could have some possibilities.

[ChippedHammer]

Vouchers are good, I remember a book store around here used photocopied vouchers with a quick squiggle on them to act as a signature to say that they were valid.

A little blue squiggle is not to hard to forge :)

Most stores now have card based systems, the cards act like credit cards. Those are not hard to forge, all you need is a basic card printer, suitable media (not hard to find) and a card reader writer (even easier to find)

[mike-hunt]

Counterfeiting gift cards would be a great scam if simply copying the card is all that is needed .I have heard of this being done with credit cards but the fact that there are so many different gift cards and I don't remember one news story of this being done leads me to believe they have some inbuilt security. My local grocery has gift cards sitting on the counter like a deck of cards so I am guessing they are activated by a card writer at the check out. If I was designing the security for these cards I would have a 50 digit random number written onto the card when activated with the cards value and the number kept on the stores secure server. that said numbers from a computerized random number generator are not truly random but the result of complex mathematical algorithms so by purchasing several cards at the same time it may be possible to work out the algorithm with some complex software and calculate the next numbers in the sequence . I may be well of track with this other than to say it sounds like a job for a mathematics and computer genius that properly already earns so much he has no use for such a scam.

[Emil]

Somewhere, lurking amongst the depths of the forum there was another similar thread to this one I saw a few months back, but I don't think I thoroughly read it.

Like Rasputin said, an automatic bill reader is really what you are looking to fool in this scenario. The risk is much less, and to be dealing in any significant ammount of money in person, is going to mean a more bonafide check of the bill. In other words, the clerk at the bank is much more likely to be doing a thorough check, than the 15 year old kid working down at your local shop.

One of the things mentioned before in the other thread was the change machine located at the arcades. These take your bills and change them for smaller coin currency. My question is, does anyone know how sophisticated these things are, and what they look for when "reading" your note??

I mean some of these machines around look pretty damn old which could provide a better result to maybe a newer type. The good thing is they are always stashed in all places around the arcade, some even out of the eyes of the the ticket booth workers.