Rogue Science DVD...

[Red Beret]

Since there will be no nbk2000 DVD, I think it would be a great idea to start work on a "Rogue science" DVD.

I don't know if anyone has any of the material that nbk was planning on putting on his DVD, but if any of it is available, we should put it on the DVD. We could make it in honour of the beast.

Just to throw some ideas around, things we could include;

Complete range of media (video, pdf, jpeg etc)
The FTP book content
All Books/manuals/videos divided into sections like the forum,
Prototype weapons section,
Things that may be in the works could be worked on and added,
Focus on OTC methods, like nbk's OTC mustard gas,
Tactics (inc. defensive driving),
Forced entry,
Survival,
Other things that nbk would have added such as body disposal etc,
Any and all "gems" of information,
A section on members synth methods, advice, tips, stories from members,
Hand to hand combat and hand to hand weapons,
Reviews on particular brands of bought weapons ie; stun guns, cattle prods, defensive sprays, guns, martial arts weapons/knives.

We could possibly do a two disc set, and make it the absolute best and biggest E&W publication in existence. By charging a decent (but fair and affordable) price, we could use funds to support roguesci and keep dick head kewls out.

I think as a precaution we should be prepared for the fact that the forum and FTP may be shut down by government agents, and distributing a DVD would help in the distribution of good information.

As an advanced warning, there should be NO SUPPLIERS LISTED. This is obvious to most, I know, but a couple of OZ suppliers have been listed in the past and ceased sales on certain things.

I would be happy to donate as many DVDs as I can, so lets shoot some ideas around, and hopefully get this project underway, the greatest E&W project in existence!

[parmegianno]

I do still have some files on my hard disk NBK sent me several years ago. I had a quick look at it, here's what it is:

Something about linear shaped charges, probably nothing unique.
A part of a book about gemology which he had scanned in order to include into his DVD. It's about gold an platinum.
One thing which should really be unique, also for his DVD: 30 pages which he wrote about bank and armored car robbery. He sent me this to look for weaknesses and little errors. I found a few things, but it'll give you some interesting notions about the subject.


Do we still have a forum FTP? If so, just give me an account and I'll upload it.

[iHME]

The FTP has about 130gb of information. And even my personal ebook collection is about 20gb and that would require a quite few dvd's.

[Hirudinea]

The FTP has about 130gb of information. And even my personal ebook collection is about 20gb...

Well Blu-Ray writers should be comming out soon, even 130gb would be only 3 of those discs.

[Enkidu]

Even so, there are lots of duplicate files on the FTP. Without the HUGE pdfs, software, or videos, I bet you could get reasonable close to an 'essentials' DVD or, for sure, an essentials BluRay.

[Rbick]

Perhaps if we organize what we want on the DVD and then split each section and assign it to an individual, we could make the process quick and easy. For instance, I would be more than happy to compile videos to be put on the DVD while someone else handles OTC materials. Let me know what you guys think and we can make a plan and make it happen. It is was nkb would want and expect of us :)

[Silentnite]

I'm quasi-certain that if we were to produce a dvd, it'd be best to turn it into several .iso's to burn. Charge for the access link. But we should go through the FTP to weed out doubles, even still it's going to be many, many, many dvd's. Blu-ray is out of the question as such a small portion of the populace would have it currently. When it becomes as pervasive as the common vcr/dvd player then fine. But most Blu-ray writer's are still in the 1k bracket.

[Tom Sawyer]

Even so, there are lots of duplicate files on the FTP.

Yes there are. I found a torrent for a bit of software I have been planning to use on my own file storage systems -

http://noclone.net/

I'll evaluate it and if it works as advertised, I'll upload it to thesoftware folder on TMP's FTP

[Red Beret]

Perhaps we should vote as to what FTP content should be on the DVD(s)?

Some essentials would be;

NBK2000 pdf,
The 9mm BSP by PA luty,
A couple of the better/easier Bill Holmes books,
The PMJB1-4
Any other original PDF by NBK,
Some good books on primaries and caps.

It dosent have to be everything, just the "best of the best". We'd also need chemistry books, emergency medicine, survival, chemical weapons.

Perhaps it would even be viable to make copies of the entire ftp onto DVDs to sell and help out the forum?

Ie; one DVD could be devoted to HE's, one to chemical weapons on so on. One would purchase them seperately.

Mega, perhaps you would have some valuable input into this.

[megalomania]

There should be a distinction between the type of DVD nbk was working on and what would constitute a Forum DVD. Nbk was producing his own content, or so he informed me. His content was supplemented by various books, vids, etc., but it was substantially his own work. This was a tremendous undertaking, and that's why he never finished it...

What you guys are talking about is assembling a collection of other peoples copyrighted work and selling it. This is something I do not approve of, the selling that is.

Indeed there should be a way to get these materials to as many people as possible, as quickly as possible, and as cheaply as possible, without overstepping the boundaries of legality. This is a perplexing issue, one that I have ruminated on many an occasion.

What should be provided is the easy part, everything :) How to distribute the material is the hard part.

Not everyone wants everything, most people just want a particular book or file. Ideally the Internet should allow those that want a piece of the pie to have it, and those that want the whole pie to get that too. As things are now it is easy to get single files, but it is very difficult and inconvenient to get large numbers of files.

Online file sharing hosts, torrents, FTPs, direct downloads - these all have their limitations. Organizing and maintaining such a system is also a challenge.

We are also faced with time limits. Who can say when the crackdown will come and the fedgov decides that everything on the Internet is illegal. No books, no pron, no ebay sales, no search engines, nothing but disney and .gov.

This may never happen, but not expecting it to happen given the current Big Brother climate is very naive. Not planning for it to happen is stupid.

If someone would like to donate $1 million to me I can start sending DVD's for free to every member of The Forum containing the entire FTP. Short of that a group collaboration is our best hope.

First, we need to organize the files available to us, weed out redundancy, figure out what we have and what we still need. Plans for this are underway. Second, we need to figure out a means of distribution. P2P would be great for this, if it is set up right. Third, we need to establish a means of accepting new content on a continual basis. The collection needs to get increasingly more valuable if people are expected to maintain it.

[Rbick]

Well count me in. Just tell me what I need to do to help.

[tmp]

... nothing but disney and .gov.
What a depressing thought ! I too am opposed to charging for information
especially when I consider that the FTP was built by the hard work of the
members.

Biggest immediate problem is distribution. My upload speed is pathetic. Last
week I attempted an(encrypted) upload to RapidShit. It may have been the
time of the day but it was only accepting 73 KB/sec. I was pushing the file
on a 1 MB/sec system here at work. There's got to be another way to get
this accomplished. I haven't been able to pay much attention to my website
lately but even that'll have space limitations. I'll keep you posted.

[JekyllandHyde]

I have an idea for the distribution problems:

Why not simply make a torrent that compiles all the files to go onto the Dvd’s – then allow people to download and burn the files onto Dvd at their leisure? This would be especially useful for people who live in countries with strict import rules (such as Australia), and would greatly reduce the cost as well.

[Silentnite]

We're forgetting the simple fact that even taking into account 25% of the FTP being redundant, we're still looking at over 200gb's worth of material. Or, around 60or so DVD's.

Maybe one way to get around that would be to purchase the HDD from TMP mirrored over. But then that requires a substantial amount of work on TMP's end, but does negate part of the legality of selling the material. As your selling the HDD itself not the items on the HDD.

[-=HeX=-]

Guys, I have been working on my own DVD for a while now and its estimated time of release is 2012. However, I may just try out a forum collection type disc instead.

All I need is the ftp but I am on 56k and I am only allowed online for 2 hours a week and my mobile phone cannot download files. Could somebody send of the ftp on discs please if at all possible? PM me.

Also, the cost of the 30 disc set would be $60 with $50 going to the forum and the remainder to cover costs incurred. Postage to europe and america would be included.

It would also contain my own personal work and research on one of the discs.

What are your thoughts and comments and abuse?

[Zerstoren Sie]

Perhaps a collective effort to acquire blank dvd's is in order. I don't know how many of you have experience dumpster diving. As for myself, that's where I get my blanks when I need them. Some well-known office supply stores in the US tend to throw out a ton. I'm guessing this is due to returns because of hardware compatibility issues. Based on what I have seen, it is possible to get one or two spindles worth of blank dvd's every 1-3 weeks. If many on the forum were to try this, enough might be collected for free distribution.

[Red Beret]

Acquiring blank dvd's would be in order, even if we don't know exactly what we are doing with them right now, better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

We needn't put "everything" onto the dvd's, just essentials, as was said. The best from each area. It will still be large for sure, but it's better than not distributing information at all.

[-=HeX=-]

Well a friend is downloading that huge torrent of books for me that we saw on the pirate bay so thats a start.

Who owns the ftp because if they sent me it all on dvds and I could, with your help, pick out the bits that I should put on the dvds that I will release in 2012 and when I am able I will set up a backup ftp.

All help is greatly appreciated. Any thoughts because it seems that I must decide here.

[parmegianno]

NBK's material which I was talking about earlier in this topic (http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showpost.php?p=100540&postcount=2) has now been uploaded to the Forum FTP and is currently located in uploads/parmegianno.

[LuzRD]

Is there a size limit to files on P2P networks? The contents could be put into a password protected folder (or several folders for potentially easier sharing) and uploaded.

I'm not sure if this is viable, However it seems like it could work and sounds alot easier than making (and sending) dozens of DVD's for each person.

[Enkidu]

There is no limit to size of files shared over torrent or P2P networks, AFAIK. What you're talking about is coming up with 'the essentials' and skipping the DVD. That is an idea that has been discussed before. My personal opinion is that the suggestion to come up with a DVD is really just a suggestion to come up with an easily transferable essentials library that fits on a DVD for convenience sake.

Maybe we should consider the pros and cons of DVD vs. P2P. Is anybody here familiar with the Dangermouse project that existed at one time at The Crucible? It failed. The why's are debatable, I guess... but it still failed.

[Mr Science]

LuzRD, I have seen torrent files that exceeded 200GB; the maximum size of the torrent all really depends on your hard drive capacity. :)

As for comparing the two options, P2P wins hands down. The only real advantages I can think of, is that you can take it to places where there is no access to internet (which barely makes sense), and you have an immediate hard copy of the data (which you can do anyways when you are done downloading x content)

As for P2P, here are a few advantages:
-Neither the sender or receiver are paying for anything, unlike sending DVD's.
-The larger a demand for x content, the torrent will better support itself. Also might I add, whether you get ten downloads or ten thousand (many of my Demonoid torrent were at a minimum of 5k downloads, and some exceeded 20-30k :)), it will not cost you any more, unlike if we were sending DVD's...
-The risk of giving away/selling DVD's would be not worth it. If any authorities saw the content that was copyright, let alone the material, being distibuted, it would give you bad attention.
-You can stop a few people giving out x DVD's by going to the source, but you cannot do that to a torrent. As long as that small torrent file is circulating via TPB, Demonoid, rapidshare, megaupload, forum attachments, etc etc, anyone could begin downloading the files, which could potentially contain much more data than any CD/DVD-R could contain, as discussed earlier. And torrents now don't even need a tracker to operate.

In short, P2P is *by far* our most efficient means of spreading files, from the reasons above. I would only really start considering using DVD's to spread things, only if there was some major hypothetical lockdown of the internet by the ministry of homeland security, or some other group. The internet is already viewed by the Pentagon as an "enemy weapons system," so I could imagine this time coming soon: http://www.globalresearch.ca/PrintArticle.php?articleId=7980

So, other measures could be taken further down the road if we need to, but for now, it is wise to stick with our fastest, most efficient, secure means of transfer: peer to peer.

[parmegianno]

Mr Science, I agree with most of your points, but the most commonly used P2P programs cannot be called secure. Sure, they are secure in comparison to handing out your postal address and real name in order to receive a DVD you ordered, but there is hardly any P2P program which effectively hides your IP address. Exceptions do exist, but they are still rarely used which makes them a poor choice if you're looking for a big repertory of files and want to download with more than just a few single kB/s.

[Mr Science]

Yeah, i was saying it comparatively with mail. But hiding your IP really isn't a matter of using the right client (yet), but more a matter of getting other software, then utilizing that. For instance, Peerguardian autokicks IP's from recording industries, universities, governments, etc. And a program called SMAC changes your NIC MAC address, and you can get a new IP within 15 seconds (only works if you have cable internet).

[Hirudinea]

For a combination of P2P and security a darknet might be a good way to go, heres the wikipedia article...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darknet

[Silentnite]

A darknet is rather pointless. How do you confirm who on this forum is allowed access? Limiting the access kills speeds, and the spread of knowledge. First we're talking about sending someone literally 1000+'s of dvd's and funding a project for him to mail them out to people, and then we go to P2P isn't secure enough?

Please. Spread the knowledge, spread the power. Quit worrying about a postage stamp or a list. More then likely your already on 30+ lists and your just fooling yourself otherwise.

[megalomania]

Tell me more about SMAC. I found the webpage of what i think is the maker of this program. Since this is a crappy webpage, and something a hacker would be interested in, I can't trust this site with an executable until I learn more about it.

The page is http://www.klcconsulting.net/smac/

They offer several versions; the Evaluation Edition is free, but lacking in some potentially nifty features; the Standard Edition looks like it is just fine and this is what I would like to download if its out there; the Professional Edition only adds the ability to make a list of addresses (I don't need network reports or a year of updates since I don't plan on buying the software); and the Site and Enterprise Editions just add unlimited company installs.

I didn't find the standard or pro edition anywhere... I would like to know a little more about what I can do with the prog because it seems potentially useful.

-------------------------------------------------------

There is an upper limit to the practicality of a torrent. If it is too large no one will bother downloading it because they will never hope to see it end. That means less seeders and leechers, and less people on a large torrent is even more discouraging because you know something big is going to disappear before you can hope to finish. If the torrent is made correctly with regards to letting people download individual files so they can pick and choose, that might work. A 100GB rar files with no description tells me you are a cocksucker trying to get me to download a 100GB virus!

In the last 5 years I bought 4 hard drives for my computer, more RAM, a faster processor and graphics card, and still my equipment is antiquated compared to the new stuff out just this month. In this 5 year time my Internet provider has not only remained the same, but my average speeds have gone down. They oversell the service, they restrict bandwidth even though they already paid for the infrastructure...

My point is everything computer related advances so fast, but not download speeds. 5 years from now I will probably have a BlueRay RW drive (HDDVD is dead!) to watch some high def movies, a couple TB drives, 8GB of RAM, but I will still have the same old crappy Internet access.

There are practical limits to what can be downloaded, and those limits seem to be frozen. When change does come, it will happen fast. Maybe some billionaire with a conscience will give away a new fangled Wi-Fi system to every school and library in the country with a 50 mile range able handle 10TB/sec downloads creating a nationwide free Internet service with onion routing hardwired into the system... I can dream.

[Silentnite]

As we speak the local networks around here are laying doorstep fiber. I chatted with several technicians and while it's going to be a bit before its enabled its meant to be a big selling feature. With all the dormant Fiber cable in the US alone sooner or later its going to be a pretty rapid change.

Do the torrent in several files. Roguesci DVD 1. Roguesci DVD 2. And make it an .iso but include the files included in the description of the torrent. 4gig chunks isn't horrible anymore.

[LuzRD]

Mega, I downloaded the trial of smac from your link, but I couldn't find a serial that would work. I found a serial claiming to be for smac 2.0 but it would not work with the trial vs. 2.0.0.2 (according to the smac.exe properties).

Limewire says it allows files of up to 1TB so file size is not a problem for P2P, of course having the entire FTP as one file would likely fail (I am assuming that those who kept the file shared would be the minority).
Without having FTP access I am going to assume that not including personal directories the contents of the FTP either are or can be organized into specific categories.
If this is the case would it be feasible to compress and password the individual categories and share them P2P? Maybe have a .txt file in each directory listing all current categories available.

If the motive is to keep the content for only those who currently have FTP access, the passwords could be listed on the FTP so to be kept accessible by those with FTP accounts.
If the motive is to let it be shared then obviously neglect the password when compressing the directories. I would expect MUCH faster downloads after not too long this way.

For an example....
Say for example there are 100 scientific .pdf's, 50 videos, and 30 military manuals in the "explosives" directory. These 3 subdirectories could be named something like...
"explosives-pdf-2/08"
"explosives-videos1-2/08"
"explosives-videos2-2/08"
"explosives-military manuals-2/08"

There are two directories for video just to show an understanding that multiple directories will be needed for some categories. Similar file names to be established for all categories. Note that the date is included in the file name to assist in updating the newer content at a later time.
I suggest this format with the topic (explosives) first, then the media (pdf/video/manual) as I think it would be the easiest way to find exactly what your looking for. Now where i see a conflict in this would be not all military manuals/videos/programs/pdf's etc.. will fit into another category, and at this time I'm not sure how that would be resolved (maybe naming the directories with the media first THEN the content???).

If this is feasible there could possibly be a schedule for volunteers to download some of the different categories at certain times until an acceptable number of people have made the content available P2P. I suggest a schedule to help with bandwidth, and so there aren't 15 people all downloading and sharing the same category.

Does any of this sound good? It's getting late here, and i hope I've made sense.



*******
Moderator note: Check your spelling next time. 7 corrections is a bit much.

~~~~
I have SMAC 2.0 in my FTP folder, with patch included.
-Mr Science

[Hirudinea]

If your going to break up the files into several different torrents I think you should put a simple text file in each torrent with a full listing of all the files in all the torrents, and the torrent names, etc. Then when people download one torrent they would get the info for all torrents which would whet their appetites for the rest of them.

[LuzRD]

Mr. Science I apologize for my spelling. I typically google words that I'm not sure about and rely on a google link "did you mean ____" to correct myself. I will now use an actual spell check. Thank you.

Hirudinea, that is what I meant when I said "Maybe have a .txt file in each directory listing all current categories available..

I think file name, size, type, and date would be enough information to include for each file within the text file. Would anybody add/delete any of these details?

Is there a list of the content of the FTP available?

[Mr Science]

Yes LuzRD, on the front page of the FTP....

And as for the DVD, I think first and foremost we need to have each of the individual files up, before amassing such a compilation.

I think of it this way: what is easier to hide, and move around: a pocketbook, a box of books, or a boxcar full of books? Sure, while you will move a lot more around considerably more, honestly, there will be far less people who would want to commit themselves to not only spend days if not weeks downloading everything, but spending just as long if not longer to seed it all to >1.000. One torrent will make it easy for X authority group to monitor IP's, but what if there was several hundred (or thousand) simultaneous torrents active? I think for security reasons, smaller torrents are better as well. As for the smaller torrents of individual files or groups, people will only be downloading what they truly need, so you can expect them to be more dedicated with the torrent. I don't know about other people, but for smaller books, I'll leave it on seeding while I'm doing other torrents, and some of my own torrents have ratios of 200 and higher.

My point being, lets get ALL of our content out, before worrying about any semi-official RS DVD.

[-=HeX=-]

A 1 terabyte download :Eek: and what about the people with slow internet and limited access....

I mean its all well and good for people with broadband but on 56k it takes a hour just to download 1 megabyte.

Imagine the length of time that would take... 119.7 years! And by the end the end I would be dead.

I believe that DVD or Blue ray is the way. But I am a bit biased. If anybody wishes to donate dvds with data email me and we shall arrange a post drop.

OT but who is dynamitemike and why is he editing my water cooler posts, or is he a moderator? I dont think he is.

[Hinckleyforpresident]

A 1 terabyte download :Eek: and what about the people with slow internet and limited access....

I mean its all well and good for people with broadband but on 56k it takes a hour just to download 1 megabyte.


Perhaps it would be wise to combine the P2P and the DVD ideas. People with high speed internet could download the torrents, and then they could do a more local distribution by DVD or similar media. Personally, I know a few members of RS in person, and I would be happy to give them the files if they were unable to download. If everyone did something like this, the library could branch out in a lovely decentralized manner.

This certainly wouldn't take care of everyone, but I bet it would knock a good chunk off the list of people who can't download.

What do you all think?

[Mr Science]

I agree with you. After thinking about it, it isn't quite fair for us all to agree on one 'official' medium to send the files......it all really depends on your area, and your situation. As you said, decentralization is the key. :)

[Silentnite]

That's worrying about the spread at tier 2. Tier one is us getting the main host out. If alot of individual dvd's is a bad idea, what about like themed packs. Release packs in the same theme as our forum is structured.

[Mr Science]

Perhaps to continue the spread of these files (legally, for once), we can have some wikipedia-like page, where all subjects will have their own pages, in which anyone can add more information. After it has enough information, we can then edit it, and Megalomania can possibly sell the PDF's/printed guides to support Roguesci.

That is probably the best choice we have to continue spreading material around, without breaking any copyrights. We have to be a little safe distributing our current material, but imagine how much more freely our own material can circulate since it is then our property. I see at least a dozen new sources for our information, since it then belongs to us, or is non-copyright material. Gun shows, eBay, Paladin Press-esque sites just to name a few, each location depending on what material/subjects you plan to release.

[phrankinsteyn]

Mr Science, I like that idea. There is a lot of knowledge here on this forum. And it could teach some valuable lessons.

[Mr Science]

As a matter of fact........I actually set up a wikipedia page for it, so we can implement this idea.

The new thread for it:
http://roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?p=102027