zaibatsu
March 15th, 2003, 01:57 PM
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 194
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted January 06, 2001 01:35 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have any of you tried mannitolhexanitrate?
I am aware that it's in Megalomania's database, but I'm looking for firsthand experience.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 08, 2001 01:47 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, I have once to see if it worked.
I never made it again, because although it's very good for use as a primary explosive, or to sensitise mixtures, the acids used are more valuable to me for making high explosives like RDX because I can easily make HMTD for use as a primary.
Think of it as solid nitroglycerine.
What kind of stuff do you want to know? i haven't had much experience with it, but I'll try to help.
While we're on the subject, has anyone tried maltose octonitrate?
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 194
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted January 09, 2001 07:47 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well as you may or may not know, I am working with miniaturizing explosive devices so it would be valuable to have a really effective, small detonator or something that would make a good plastique that was easy to detonate.
I haven't tried to make MHN before so I would like to know just how sensitive it is. Do I need to take any special precautions during production or afterwards?
Are there any "loopholes" such as the use of H2SO4+KNO3 mix directly without distilling?
Thanks.
PS. Did anyone see my nitromethane/propane-foam notice ?
10fingers
Frequent Poster
Posts: 411
From: USA
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 09, 2001 12:07 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
deleting post.
[This message has been edited by 10fingers (edited March 19, 2001).]
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 10, 2001 05:20 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, I used the KIBC method, but I used half the quantities. Handling precautions etc. would be the same as with any primary explosive. You could probably use H2SO4/KNO3, but if it doesn't work don't try heating it to start the reaction, because as soon as a molecule of it is formed it will probably be decomposed by the heat. It can indeed be used as a good base charge, because it's powerful and easily detonated, but will detonate from direct exposure to flame or rapid overheating.
I didn't see your post, but I'll have a look...
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 194
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted January 11, 2001 10:29 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it got moved to misc.
Anyway here is the address:
<a href="http://www.demining.brtrc.com/catalog/contents/26_clear.htm" target="_blank">http://www.demining.brtrc.com/catalog/contents/26_clear.htm</a>
Maybe you could use lighter gas (butane )instead then you could modify a refillable lighter. Just make sure the NM doesn't dissolve the lighter.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 11, 2001 12:32 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sounds good.
Does foaming it act like adding microballons to NM plastics, or does it just stop it from flowing everywhere?
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 194
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted January 11, 2001 02:46 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm pretty sure reducing the density by foaming it would sensitize the NM, but I haven't tried it yet. In the pictures on the site, they used the foamed NM unconfined.
They also stated that the two liquids ( NM and propane ) were not classed as explosives before they were mixed, so by implication...
I do think you need some way to increase the viscosity of the NM, a bit like soap-bubble liquid. I think you can use glycerin...
BTW, do you know of something like a varnish, but which isn't dissolved by NM?
It is eating my lighters so I need to coat their insides.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 11, 2001 05:42 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What is liquid propane? The only liquid propane I know of is gaseous propane under pressure. Although I remeber seeing on Haggas's site, him firing "liquid butane" from a spudgun so it must have been a pourable liquid.
What's going on?
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 194
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted January 12, 2001 09:25 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Liquid butane is what you use in lighters it is liquid when under pressure, or when very cold. Think of it as you would any other liquid with a low boiling point. When exposed to the atmosphere, it begins to boil and is thus undergoing a phase-change to gaseous form. This process requires energy, so it doesn't happen instantaneously; heat has to flow in from the surroundings. This is why you can use stuff like liquid nitrogen for cooling; it will keep drawing energy for boiling until there is no more energy in the surroundings than in the liquid.
Anyway, you can pour liquid propane (which is used for propulsion in many kinds of canister, for instance shaving foam ), but it will boil while you do it.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 12, 2001 04:25 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How did you get the NM inside the lighter? Did you force it through the hole for refilling it? I want to try this, and using a lighter full of it seems like a good idea.
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 194
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted January 12, 2001 06:43 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well where I am, one-use, non-electric lighters can be disassembled by removing the top parts.First remove the shield, then you just need to bend the plastic flanges slightly, then you can remove the rough cylinder that you roll with your thumb when using the lighter. Now remove the valve by turning it counter clockwise for a number of revolutions. Having done this, turn the lighter upside down and knock the long plastic filter out (it looks like a straw).
Now you are ready to fill it up with NM.
The problem will be to then get the propane of butane inside; my lighters are pseudo-reusable, meaning that eventhough they are of inferior construction and can be disassembled as described, they also have a valve for refuelling. This makes it quite easy to pour in the NM, reassemble and then refilling with lightergas as usual.
NB: You should leave the filter out I think; otherwise it would likely filter the NM out, especially if there was some sort of foaming additive.
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 194
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted January 12, 2001 07:21 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Could anyone give a step by step example of MHN production by the H2SO4/AN method ?
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 12, 2001 07:38 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, just that thing about firing liquid butane from a spudgun confused me, maybe he had a liquified form of butane (like LPG).
How long do the lighters last before they dissolve? Is it a case of filling it with NM, shooting in the butane and letting it off straight away? Are you just tapping a detonator to the side of the lighter?
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 194
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted January 13, 2001 05:11 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The lighters became soft after about 30 minutes when I tested it. Remember that I haven't actually tested the explosive properties yet, as I first need to foam the NM. I don't think taping a detonator to the lighter would work; you need the reduction in density from foaming the NM. I am pretty sure this is all the propane does
( which is why I think butane is just as good ). I suppose you could fill the lighter with NM and butane and then use it immediately, but remember that there is a reasonably high pressuse in the lighter so it will burst as a soap-bubble when the NM dissolves the plastic.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 13, 2001 09:53 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I see, so how are you intending to detonate the lighter charge?
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 13, 2001 11:56 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know the kind of lighter you mean.
Have you tried a polyurethane varnish? I think this would stand up to the NM, but I'm not 100% sure because I haven't got any at the moment. I have to vacuum distil it from model aeroplane fuel, but my vacuum pumps (two freezer compressors in series) have burnt out. Oh well, they were free!
I've never seen an H2SO4/nitrate recipe for MHN, but if I do I'll let you know.
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 194
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted January 13, 2001 05:56 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anthony: See the link I placed in my post in the first half of this thread ?
Check it out, and feel free to comment.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 13, 2001 08:11 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Right. Anyway of getting NM into a can of shaving foam?
Cricket
Frequent Poster
Posts: 160
From: USA
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 14, 2001 01:38 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was buying some acetone or something 3 days ago at Wal-Mart and saw, in the place with the drills, a product called plasti-dip. It was a can of liquid rubber that turns solid/semi-solid when left in the air, like glue. I think its resistant to solvents. If not, it would be good to use in blasting caps when using something like HMTD
(corrodes aluminum, zinc, antimony, brass, copper, lead and iron).
Frequent Poster
Posts: 194
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted January 06, 2001 01:35 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have any of you tried mannitolhexanitrate?
I am aware that it's in Megalomania's database, but I'm looking for firsthand experience.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 08, 2001 01:47 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, I have once to see if it worked.
I never made it again, because although it's very good for use as a primary explosive, or to sensitise mixtures, the acids used are more valuable to me for making high explosives like RDX because I can easily make HMTD for use as a primary.
Think of it as solid nitroglycerine.
What kind of stuff do you want to know? i haven't had much experience with it, but I'll try to help.
While we're on the subject, has anyone tried maltose octonitrate?
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 194
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted January 09, 2001 07:47 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well as you may or may not know, I am working with miniaturizing explosive devices so it would be valuable to have a really effective, small detonator or something that would make a good plastique that was easy to detonate.
I haven't tried to make MHN before so I would like to know just how sensitive it is. Do I need to take any special precautions during production or afterwards?
Are there any "loopholes" such as the use of H2SO4+KNO3 mix directly without distilling?
Thanks.
PS. Did anyone see my nitromethane/propane-foam notice ?
10fingers
Frequent Poster
Posts: 411
From: USA
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 09, 2001 12:07 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
deleting post.
[This message has been edited by 10fingers (edited March 19, 2001).]
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 10, 2001 05:20 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, I used the KIBC method, but I used half the quantities. Handling precautions etc. would be the same as with any primary explosive. You could probably use H2SO4/KNO3, but if it doesn't work don't try heating it to start the reaction, because as soon as a molecule of it is formed it will probably be decomposed by the heat. It can indeed be used as a good base charge, because it's powerful and easily detonated, but will detonate from direct exposure to flame or rapid overheating.
I didn't see your post, but I'll have a look...
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 194
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted January 11, 2001 10:29 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it got moved to misc.
Anyway here is the address:
<a href="http://www.demining.brtrc.com/catalog/contents/26_clear.htm" target="_blank">http://www.demining.brtrc.com/catalog/contents/26_clear.htm</a>
Maybe you could use lighter gas (butane )instead then you could modify a refillable lighter. Just make sure the NM doesn't dissolve the lighter.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 11, 2001 12:32 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sounds good.
Does foaming it act like adding microballons to NM plastics, or does it just stop it from flowing everywhere?
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 194
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted January 11, 2001 02:46 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm pretty sure reducing the density by foaming it would sensitize the NM, but I haven't tried it yet. In the pictures on the site, they used the foamed NM unconfined.
They also stated that the two liquids ( NM and propane ) were not classed as explosives before they were mixed, so by implication...
I do think you need some way to increase the viscosity of the NM, a bit like soap-bubble liquid. I think you can use glycerin...
BTW, do you know of something like a varnish, but which isn't dissolved by NM?
It is eating my lighters so I need to coat their insides.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 11, 2001 05:42 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What is liquid propane? The only liquid propane I know of is gaseous propane under pressure. Although I remeber seeing on Haggas's site, him firing "liquid butane" from a spudgun so it must have been a pourable liquid.
What's going on?
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 194
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted January 12, 2001 09:25 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Liquid butane is what you use in lighters it is liquid when under pressure, or when very cold. Think of it as you would any other liquid with a low boiling point. When exposed to the atmosphere, it begins to boil and is thus undergoing a phase-change to gaseous form. This process requires energy, so it doesn't happen instantaneously; heat has to flow in from the surroundings. This is why you can use stuff like liquid nitrogen for cooling; it will keep drawing energy for boiling until there is no more energy in the surroundings than in the liquid.
Anyway, you can pour liquid propane (which is used for propulsion in many kinds of canister, for instance shaving foam ), but it will boil while you do it.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 12, 2001 04:25 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How did you get the NM inside the lighter? Did you force it through the hole for refilling it? I want to try this, and using a lighter full of it seems like a good idea.
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 194
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted January 12, 2001 06:43 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well where I am, one-use, non-electric lighters can be disassembled by removing the top parts.First remove the shield, then you just need to bend the plastic flanges slightly, then you can remove the rough cylinder that you roll with your thumb when using the lighter. Now remove the valve by turning it counter clockwise for a number of revolutions. Having done this, turn the lighter upside down and knock the long plastic filter out (it looks like a straw).
Now you are ready to fill it up with NM.
The problem will be to then get the propane of butane inside; my lighters are pseudo-reusable, meaning that eventhough they are of inferior construction and can be disassembled as described, they also have a valve for refuelling. This makes it quite easy to pour in the NM, reassemble and then refilling with lightergas as usual.
NB: You should leave the filter out I think; otherwise it would likely filter the NM out, especially if there was some sort of foaming additive.
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 194
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted January 12, 2001 07:21 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Could anyone give a step by step example of MHN production by the H2SO4/AN method ?
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 12, 2001 07:38 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, just that thing about firing liquid butane from a spudgun confused me, maybe he had a liquified form of butane (like LPG).
How long do the lighters last before they dissolve? Is it a case of filling it with NM, shooting in the butane and letting it off straight away? Are you just tapping a detonator to the side of the lighter?
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 194
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted January 13, 2001 05:11 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The lighters became soft after about 30 minutes when I tested it. Remember that I haven't actually tested the explosive properties yet, as I first need to foam the NM. I don't think taping a detonator to the lighter would work; you need the reduction in density from foaming the NM. I am pretty sure this is all the propane does
( which is why I think butane is just as good ). I suppose you could fill the lighter with NM and butane and then use it immediately, but remember that there is a reasonably high pressuse in the lighter so it will burst as a soap-bubble when the NM dissolves the plastic.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 13, 2001 09:53 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I see, so how are you intending to detonate the lighter charge?
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 13, 2001 11:56 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know the kind of lighter you mean.
Have you tried a polyurethane varnish? I think this would stand up to the NM, but I'm not 100% sure because I haven't got any at the moment. I have to vacuum distil it from model aeroplane fuel, but my vacuum pumps (two freezer compressors in series) have burnt out. Oh well, they were free!
I've never seen an H2SO4/nitrate recipe for MHN, but if I do I'll let you know.
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 194
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted January 13, 2001 05:56 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anthony: See the link I placed in my post in the first half of this thread ?
Check it out, and feel free to comment.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 13, 2001 08:11 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Right. Anyway of getting NM into a can of shaving foam?
Cricket
Frequent Poster
Posts: 160
From: USA
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 14, 2001 01:38 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was buying some acetone or something 3 days ago at Wal-Mart and saw, in the place with the drills, a product called plasti-dip. It was a can of liquid rubber that turns solid/semi-solid when left in the air, like glue. I think its resistant to solvents. If not, it would be good to use in blasting caps when using something like HMTD
(corrodes aluminum, zinc, antimony, brass, copper, lead and iron).