Silencer

[Kdogg]

I have recently made one by takin a small piece of pipe & drilled holes in it like a shroud. Then put it in a 20oz. pop bottle, Through holes in both ends. I then put a little tape around my barrel to get a tighter fit inside the pipe. It nearly cut the sound in half I was surprised. Have any of you ever made one if so please share how well it worked, & how you made it.

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Monkeyman

[EventHorizon]

Baffle type are simple to make. If you are fortunate to have some metal working equipment you can eaisly fabricate one. If I can ever get my spare PSU back I can scan the silencer book I have.

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"Chance favors a prepared mind" - Louis Pasteur
"Happiness is a large pile of links." - Me
PGP ID 0x147CEF54

[CyclonitePyro]

(In various dreams)
I experimented with the bottle types, I heated the end of them to make them soft and then shot a hole through it to make a perfectly placed hole, they work well but are not practical and are large.
I make the silencers for my Ruger 10/22, I also have a Bultler Creek folding stock in it and a scope, and some smaller accessories like an extended mag, release, auto bolt release and bolt buffer.
Use subsonic rounds for it, their velocity is just below the speed of sound so the make no sonic boom while flying, that is where most of your sound comes from, I buy 500rd bricks of them and they don't last long with a 50rd clip.
The silencer I use now is a piece of 1/2" PVC pipe, it slides right on the barrel and has and L shaped notch in it so it can slide on past the sight on the end of the barrel and then you twist in so it locks in place and won't slide off. In the middle of it is a metal washer held in place by small sloped nails and PVC glue, The inner hole of the washer is just right for a .22 bullet. On the end are two rubber grommets held in place by nails and PVC glue. It is painted flat black and looks just like a maufactured silencer and works great.
I built it so that neighbors wouldn't complain, and it works well for its purpose. If not for them then I really wouldn't have cared about the noise.
It works nice for shooting animals, Cananda Geese for example, one drops, and the one next to it has no freakin idea what happened, where if not for the silencer, the whole flock would have flew away.

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"Friends don't let friends play with
Nitrogen Triiodide"

[Kdogg]

"If you are fortunate to have some metal working equipment you can eaisly fabricate one." I have every thing I would need, Cutting/welding torch, plasma cutter, Wire & arc welders, & a metal lathe. Do you have any good ideas? Im thinking of making it with the same idea, just with a pipe so its smaller than a pop bottle, that way aiming is more accurate.

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Monkeyman

[CyclonitePyro]

What imaginary gun is this silencer for?

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"Friends don't let friends play with
Nitrogen Triiodide"

[Kdogg]

If your talking to me, This/these "Imaginary" guns are a Savage .22, & an AR-7 .22. I also have a 30-06, but am not going slide a metal silincer onto it, as I do not want to scratch it. It is one of my most prized possesions. Oh yeah, I also have an old bolt action mossberg 20 gauge w/ a 2 round clip. It is also one of my favorites.

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Monkeyman

[twinkle]

information on a high powered rifle silencer goto here :
http://guns.connect.fi/rs/btxgraaf.html
http://guns.connect.fi/rs/mxgraaf.html
http://guns.connect.fi/rs/Reflex.html

as for improvising (for a .22LR)you can use beerbottle caps which you reshape till they fit nicely in a tube or you could use aluminium screenwire winded up to a roll and then taped onto a barrel

[Kdogg]

Hey CyclonitePyro so how does your silencer work on your "IMAGINARY" Ruger 10/22. Oh yeah why dont you use your imagination & think up a shotgun to make a silencer for, so your dont have to use a .22 hunting geese?

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Monkeyman

[kingspaz]

you can't silence a shotgun can you? someone correct me if i'm wrong since i don't know much about guns. the shot doesn't make an airtight fit with the barrel so the gas behind the round can't be absorbed by the silencer as the bullet goes past. well thats how i allways thought a silencer worked.

[Cricket]

Someone once said that a loaf of bread over the muzzle will silence a .22 nicely.

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"You will not be taught the knowledge you seek, you must teach yourself." - Megalomania

[zaibatsu]

I don't know a lot about shotguns, but doesn't the wad (?) make an airtight seal? Anyway, I have seen silenced barrels for shotguns, advertised in Gun Mart for anyone from the UK

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Handguns don't kill people... Half as well as full-auto
Visit me at www.surf.to/eliteforum (http://www.surf.to/eliteforum)

[Predator]

What a good memory you have.. that was my stating a loaf of bread worked nicely in my dream.

Anyone tried that method out yet?

Someone was joking saying we should write out bread-loaf silencer specifications; kaiser rolls for this, buns for that lol

[This message has been edited by Predator (edited 11-30-2001).]

[Cricket]

I thought it was you, but wasn't sure. I live in the city now and can't test it or I would. Maybe on vacation for Chriatmas I will be able to.

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"You will not be taught the knowledge you seek, you must teach yourself." - Megalomania

[Kdogg]

"Someone once said that a loaf of bread over the muzzle will silence a .22 nicely."

What a waste of bread!

I have not tried silencing a shotgun before, one mm to the wrong direction & the shot blow it clean off.

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Monkeyman

[BoB-]

In that same thread it was mentioned that a potato over the muzzle of a .22 would silence it.

I've dreamed of silencing a 30-06 with a watermelon stuck on the barell, worked great.

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Teamwork is essential.
It lets you blame someone else.

[This message has been edited by BoB- (edited 12-01-2001).]

[HMTD Factory]

Muffling the muzzle changes point of impact a
lot ,so they are not likely practical. An old fashioned silencer is simply a multi-chambered attachment on the muzzle so
the powder gas have time to expand and depressurize before it's released outside(the lower the pressure is, the smaller the sound)

[Anthony]

I've seen silencers for shotguns for sale too.

"one mm to the wrong direction & the ... blow it clean off."

Surely that's going to be true of almost any projectile?

I can see a melon working as the internal cavity would act as an expansion chamber. But a potato is dense and water soaked so I doubt it would really absorb any sound. Bread would work well because of the porus nature of it, loads of connected air pockets that the gas can expand into.

[CyclonitePyro]

The silencer I was talking about works great, you 80% of the sound you do hear comes from the bolt clanking back and forth. That's why I bought the bolt buffer, instead of the bolt hitting a metal pin in the back of the reciever it hits a soft polyurethane pin, much more quiet.

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"Friends don't let friends play with
Nitrogen Triiodide"

[Fingerless]

Cyclonite, how long is your PVC silencer? I purchased some 1/2" PVC to make a silencer for my 10/22 but it was about the same size as the barrel, are you sure thats the size you have? I'll have to get some 3/4 and try it. Are the rubber grommets on the end of the silencer that slides over the gun muzzle or at the opposite end of the silencer? What purpose does the washer in the middle of the tube serve? I'm not sure what its for, to create multiple chambers? Thanks, it sounds like a good system if it works as good as you say, I'd like a quiet system for shooting squirrels in town. I purchased a couple hundred American Eagle subsonic rounds a month or so a go in plan to do that, but I still need a silencer. Where do I get this replacement pin at?

Eventhorizon, that would be great if you could put some designs/ideas from your book on.

[CyclonitePyro]

Hey, Fingerless, sorry I took so long, I had to sleep and dream to measure it, and remember what the PVC I used is called. I know what you mean I tried regular 1/2" and it was too small, then I used 3/4" and I had to make a complicated adapter, and it was less practical.

The PVC I found is called Rigid PVC, get the 1/2" It's grey instead of white, I think it's used for electrical stuff, like putting wires through. It makes an almost perfect fit. My dream silencer is 10" long and slides over the barrel so 8" protrudes off the barrel. And yes you're right I used the washer in the center to make two separate chambers. And the grommets go at the end of your silencer, you don't have to use grommets, you could use washers but I found perfectly fitting grommets. And then just make sure you find a way to make them stay in place.

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"Friends don't let friends play with
Nitrogen Triiodide"

[Fingerless]

Good ideas Cyclonite, but where did you get your bolt buffer at for your 10/22? I haven't seen them before, and would like one.

I've studied up on silencers a bit and am currently developing one for .22's and one for .45's and the .22 is coming along nicely. I've found a good adapter for the barrel is a large, dense high grade cork. One end of the cork is epoxied into your silencer tube and the other end is drilled slightly smaller than your barrel and the barrel is slid in. Then a 1/4 inch whole is drilled all the way through the cork for the bullet. FOr my silencer I'm utilizing a thin aluminum tube with copper cross tubes inside bedded in probablly epoxy, I don't know yet I'm not that far. Then fiberglass insulation will be put in the spaces and a washer will be brazed to the end. I'll let you know the complete plans and everything if it works out well.

[CyclonitePyro]

O yeah I forgot about that. Go to ebay and type ruger 10/22, you will find a bunch of bolt buffers and other cool accessories, like a ventilated handguard. Or you could go to www.gunaccessories.com (http://www.gunaccessories.com) they have em

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"Friends don't let friends play with
Nitrogen Triiodide"

[Kdogg]

Does anyone have any info on a .22 LR full auto converstion??

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Monkeyman

[EventHorizon]

I've got info on converting the 10/22 to select fire. As soon as I get my scanner up and going I'll scan it.

PS: NBK (or anyone else, I know NBK has mentioned it), do you have a good OCR program. I can't seem to find either of the top 2 in a full install package, only serials.

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"Chance favors a prepared mind" - Louis Pasteur
"Happiness is a large pile of links." - Me
PGP ID 0x147CEF54

[Kdogg]

"I've got info on converting the 10/22 to select fire. As soon as I get my scanner up and going I'll scan it."
That sounds great, I am very interested! Thanks

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Monkeyman

[twinkle]

I do have drawings of converting a Winchester model 64& model 490 cal .22 for semi and full auto if you like

[Kdogg]

Yes, twinkle. Please send them. It would be great for imformational purposes only.

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Monkeyman

[EventHorizon]

I have the Silencer PDF done, hope its acceptable quality for ya'll.

As soon as I verify that Adobe didn't stick some hidden info in the file somewhere, I'll post to my Yahoo breifcase and post a link here. Soon to follow, converting the 10/22 to FA.
EDIT:
Here is where to find the file.
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/eventhorizon308
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"Chance favors a prepared mind" - Louis Pasteur
"Happiness is a large pile of links." - Me
PGP ID 0x147CEF54

[This message has been edited by EventHorizon (edited 12-07-2001).]

[twinkle]

I will send them as you can tell me where to ? I did not see an email address

[SawedOff8gaugeman]

Twinkle, a suggestion: upload them somewhere and then post a link.

[Kdogg]

I thought you were going to post them here, Anyways Bigrussel7@hotmail

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Monkeyman

[twinkle]

I mailed the drawings to Kdogg while I have no idea how to post something on the www but
if you want them to SawedOff8gaugeman I can send them to .

[Kdogg]

Thanks Twinkle

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Monkeyman

[Fingerless]

I got some new ammunition for my .22 today that I have to tell you guys about. One type is called Aguila SSS (Sniper sub sonic)the other type are called Aguila super colibri's. The SSS's are built on a short case but have a 60(!) grain bullet. Overall they are the same size and profile as a .22 long rifle and cycle the same as a .22 LR. Due to the bullet being 50% heavier than a standard solid long rifle bullet, they have much more kinetic energy and "knock down power". They also retain there speed much better than a standard .22 LR-also, they are subsonic and very quiet, but still have the oomph of a long rifle 40 grainer. They are very consistent and accurate and might make decent target rounds. They drop tree rats and rabbits like a ton of bricks. I shot a rabbit in the body from 50 yards with my 10/22 today and it was dead by the time I got to it.
THe super colibri is a standard long rifle case, but theres no powder in it! It has a small 20 grain lead bullet that is propelled by merely the priming compound-don't laugh, its more powerful than it seems. I dented a plate of mild sheet steel from 30 yards or so. I also killed a rabbit today with one cleanly with a head shot from about 25 yards. They are subsonic, and very quiet, and don't travel too far. But they are extremely consistent and accurate. They are no louder than a air rifle, maybe quieter, even without a suppressor. I'm not sure of the velocity, its somewhere around 500 FPS I think I read. THe SSS are 950 or so, but I'll check on those numbers. You guys should check these rounds out.
Anyone else have experience with these rounds? What have you concluded? Like/no?

Cyclonite, what subsonic rounds are you shooting-I also got some remington subsonics but they occassionaly go supersonic.

[CyclonitePyro]

I use Remingtons subsonics, I've never had them go supersonic, regular .22 ammo's velocity is between 1055 fps and 1100 fps, the speed of sound is 1055 fps, Remingtons subsonics are 1049 fps, right under the sound barrier, so its like shooting reg, ammo without the noise.
I'll have to try some other brands, but I probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference since I like to just walk aroung and randomly unload on shit. I only shoot animals when there is is one unlucky enough to be near me, I don't sit and wait for animal with my .22

That's where my rifle comes in, when I go hunting I use a Savage .300, I shot a doe in the head this season, always wanted to do that. It dropped right away, when I walked to it, its legs were still moving and I didn't know at the time if I had a head shot, and I didn't want it getting up and biting me J/K, so I shot it point blank in the head, again. Messy!

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"Friends don't let friends play with
Nitrogen Triiodide"

[Anthony]

20gr at 500fps is just over 11ft/lb! No wonder they're about as loud as an air rifle:) Ok for rabits, but people no way.

[Kdogg]

All you can basically hear is the click. No boom, nothing, it doesnt even move the action.

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Monkeyman

[Fingerless]

Yes, surely not enough for people. But excellent for the "backyard" hunter! If you wanted to hunt a person, theoretically of course, the Aguila SSS pushing a 60 grain bullet at around 900 fps would be very well subsuited-in a closed action and with a silencer its very quiet I've concluded.

[Jhonbus]

Just a note about the use of a potato as a silencer. While doing some research (actually on a semi/full auto air gun "potato gun") I found this document:

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
Interior Ballistic Deformation, by Mike Haag (Albuquerque New Mexico P.D.)

Abstract:

None.

During the investigation of a murder in Albuquerque, eight bullet fragments were recovered from the victim and potato fragments were recovered from the scene. The victim was shot three times.

It appears that the potato was used as a silencer placed over the barrel of the firearm used in the murder. The potato found at the scene was tested and positive reactions for lead residues was noted.

Additional tests were conducted to see if a potato actually worked as a silencer. Mr. Haag's results found that the potato did not effectively silence a revolver. A potato used on a semi-auto firearm did reduce the volume of the gunshot.

The potato reduced bullet velocities from around 950 feet per second to near 600 feet per second.

The bullets recovered from having been fired with the potato on the barrel were very elongated and "wasp-waisted". Mr. Haag found that when the potato was placed on the barrel a plug of potato is pushed into the barrel. With the rest of the potato removed, bullets fired down the barrel had this deformation. He concluded the bullet deformation was occurring in the barrel and not externally.
</font>

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You must create.

PGP Key ID on MIT server: 0x0ADBA985

[atropine]

ive seen a silenced shotgun in my local gunshop, the thing is so huge and bulky i doubt it is practical enough to bother with. I asked how much it silences the crack. He said about 10% on a good day. Oh and in a dream i made a silenced zip gun running from primer driven pellets. The silencer appeared to be a piece of aluminium tubing with a series of spacers and baffles. If i could have heard anything in this dream i would have said that it silenced the bang very very nicely, to about that of a co2 pistol.

[zaibatsu]

Thats why you use subsonic ammo with the silenced shotguns, although there is a point to using a silencer with a supersonic load (be it bullet or shot) thats not really what people are talking about in this thread.

[shane]

i have in a folder of some improvised explosives and within that is a list of where you can get product and one of the is a silence "kit" as a kit it is not legal to purchase (as far as i know i live in australia so my knowledge of american law is a bit sketchy)but you can attach this silencer on a ruger mark 1 (i think i have the address and info stored away)but if anyone wants the address give me a buzz at shaneprice@start.com.au any other stuff you want to know about let me know

[xoo1246]

Mmm, I wish I had an imaginary Ruger Mk II. Gun laws around here forces you to join a shooting club and be in it for two month before buying one. I'll probably have to do that.

[McGuyver]

If someone had a metal lathe and all the goodies for making metal into nice things, they could fabricate a pipe that was the perfect diameter for their bullet. They could even rifle it. Many holes would then be put in this piece of pipe. The holes allow the gases to go into your air chamber(below) instead of out the muzzle. Then two washers could be welded onto the two ends of the pipe maybe a 1/2 an inch away from the end. The holes would only be between the two washers. Then, on the outside of the washers(or outer edge) there would be a piece of pipe to create a nice air chamber for the rapidly expanding gases. The pipe would of course be welded to the washers. The barrel could be threaded inside or out, and then your silencer could also be threaded to make a removable silencer in case some pigs catch you using it, and you have to chuck it somewhere. You will have to work on threading yourself because every gun is different. You can also vary length and volume of air chamber to your specs. Make sure everything is perfect, you wouldn't want it blowing up in your face. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> It may be a good idea to make the inner pipe a bit larger were the bullet first enters. Test it by puting a tight fitting dowel or something that fits tight inside the silencer, through the silencer, and into the barrel, if there is any (I mean any!) resistance between the the silencer and barrel do something about it. Also, make sure the bullet fits without any resistance. You should also test it from a distance a few times just to be on the safe side-like standing behind a tree or something that will stop metal shards. This should make the gun just as accurate as it was before the silencer but much quieter. I built a silencer like Cyclonite's but without 2 chambers and quite a bit longer. It is great for silencing but the accuracy is not to good. I would love to make a silencer like this but I do not have all the metal fabrication goodies needed, mind you this all came from a dream.

[Probe]

OOOOK, here it gos, I recently have aquired a .22 for myself, and want to make a silencer for it (that bitch is loud, bolt action, and the clip didnt work { falling apart }, so now its basicly breech loaded, anyways back to the quiestion), I have no metal working tools, and I would prefur to use PVC because I already have some laying around. My barrle is unthreaded( :( ) and such so it will be a bit harder. Does anyone have any plans they got layin around for this purpose? I dont have exact mesurements but I'll get 'em if you need them.

I need it to be pretty small, and I'll probobly have a tripple chamber, 1 pipe inside another and the one that the bullet pass's through will have holes and 2 chambers to expand better. Any input would be apriciated(sp?) ty :) , forgot to mention the annoying neghbores(sp) who dis-aprove of guns. :rolleyes:

[CyclonitePyro]

A .22 loud?, Do you mean in comparison to othere .22's?, .22's are quiet compared to other guns. Is shooting legal where you live? If so find a place to shoot so that it isn't dangerous to anyone and annoy those scum sucking neighbors of yours, unless your parents are on good terms with them.
Your goal of finding a silencer is no different from the other people here, I wish I had a threaded barrel. Try to see if you have "rigid PVC" that fits on the end of most .22's, it is grey 1/2" pipe that is meant for containing electrical lines. Also, read above what was written in the past.

[Fl4PP4W0k]

Hey guys, has anyone ever made an, ahem, "Zip" Gun using standard .22 primers and Air Rifle pellets?
I had an interesting idea that kinda expanded on my old .22primer\6mm graphite BB trick....

Basically, its using a .22 primer and a .22 air rifle pellet but with an air rifle barrel. Would anyone thats maybe tried this method compare power with a standard 850+fps air rifle?
As i do not have an air rifle, i can not compare power :\
(the only air guns i have are 12ga+ :D )

By using this with a silencer and standard break action, it would be pretty good fer taking down the odd backyard kritters that may roam into your domain :mad:

About the silencer.... I was thinking about a vented 6mm tubing that fits the air rifle pellet pretty well, and releases to a 15mm PVC pipe length - the gap filled with that non-static foam???
Any suggestions or info,
thx

rob

[Probe]

No, my .22 is VERY loud, you can hear it for about a mile, thanks for the help with the pipe, I'll grab one in the morning. And I'm underaged for a firearm, I'm not going to go out killing people, just shoot targets in my backyard (filled with flashpowder of course.)

I piss off the neighbors already, I told them that it was an air rifle when they came over wondering what the noise was. They responded "Thats one loud air rifle" I ended up saying "Yeah it uses a whole CO2 cartridge at once"

[xoo1246]

Fl4PP4W0k: I once tried to load some friction/heat/shock sensitive mixture I extracted from some caps (you use when you fish on the ice, like larger toy caps) behind a .177 air rifle bullet. This was some time ago, anyway, the speed was icreased and it was noticable better in pentrating targets. I helpt eroding the barrel too.
I doubt you can hear a .22 from a mile in urban/woody areas.

<small>[ June 03, 2002, 03:09 PM: Message edited by: xoo1246 ]</small>

[Anthony]

Fl4PP4W0k, I'd forget the primer and just use a .22LR blank if you can't get complete .22 rounds. An air rifle pellet is a bit light but it will give you more muzzle energy than most air rifles.

[Fl4PP4W0k]

Yer, thx Anthony - but you need a license for blank ammunition in backwards Australia methinks. I know that .22 primers are purchaseable in tins of 100 at the local army surplus store.. so that is me reason for the preoject :D

But ofcourse, if one can get .22 Blanks, then by all means they would be better. Im just proposing something that is totally license free, but more powerful than a good air rifle ( as you need a license for even THEM!!!)

l8r,
rob

[ShotgunsAreFun]

.22 primers from a surplus store in Australia?! We cant buy air rifle pellets! Where do you get primers from?

[Fl4PP4W0k]

*evil grin*

muhuhahahaha
>:]

What state are you in?

Bcoz in WA, they arent considered munitions. :D

$12.50 for a tin of 100
Not too bad...

[ShotgunsAreFun]

I hate NSW.
Can primers be sent through the mail? I mean, in a box or something. Or do they x-ray them? I know that primers can be used as the propellant for practice bullets, they send a plastic round out at 300-400 fps... a couple of those behind a blowdart should be interesting :D

<small>[ June 05, 2002, 08:16 PM: Message edited by: ShotgunsAreFun ]</small>

[electric emu]

Im pretty sure you can order through the mail with out hazardous shipping through a place like natchezs or lock stock barrel. I dont know about austrailia. and how do you get .22 primers thats a rimfire caliber and its built in unless you take it apart on your own.

<small>[ June 05, 2002, 09:55 PM: Message edited by: electric emu ]</small>

[Magas]

Primers can't be sent through the mail in oz as they are classed as explosives. You do need a license to buy blanks for a 22 however you don't need a license to by Ramset charges which are 22 blanks just be over 18 stupid laws :)

[Fl4PP4W0k]

They arent technically "primers", theyre actually crimped .22 brass that only contains a primer, about half the length of a .22 short casing.

l8r

[Whitey]

probe if you just want to quiet the gun down for target practice you could use quieter ammo. Try "cb caps" made by CCI. They are low powered rounds and are about 3/4 of the length of a regular .22lr. I have tried them myself and they are about as loud as a pellet gun. I would reccomend these because if you get caught with the gun you don't want to get busted for a silencer as well. Also if someone sees your rifle with a piece of pipe hanging off the muzzle they will know what it is.

The downside is that they usually don't have enough power to cycle a semi auto. But that doesn't matter since your rifle is a single shot bolt action anyway.

[PYRO500]

I have herd of those cb pellets, I herd they were just a primer driving a very light projectile. I think they are just for short range/indoor paper punch and I would suspect they would do a little less damage than a cheapo rusted out 20 buck pellet gun. a while back someone (NBK2000?) posted a link to silent cartredge ammo that would need no silencer and had something with the cartrage to absorb most of the gas so there wasn't that loud a blast. The downside was reduced lethality although, when do you need to use a silenced pistol long range?

[Sparky]

Maybe this is a stupid idea, but for people who can't get blank rounds maybe they could try the charges from nail guns. They are kind of like a blank round but I'm not sure if they would fit into a .22 bore. For people who can't get ammunition and want to make a zip gun this could be an idea.

[Whitey]

pyro, your basically correct they are actually designed so that you can practice shooting inside your basement or something and not damage your hearing or alert your neighbors. I know they are useful for eliminating pests but I wouldn't trust them for self defense. But since I think he is mainly interested in target practise the cb caps might fit his situation.

If he was looking something that was quiet but still fairly destructive, subsonic rounds (aguilla) might be worth a try.

[xoo1246]

I have read that the aguilla aren't as good as they claim to be, try different brands and compare them. No personal experience.

[Harry]

A body could try using the "end caps" from 35mm film rolls--walk in to you local photofinisher and ask for the contents of their film recycle bag. "Unroll" the empty 35mm rolls (you may get a sore finger or 2) and save the ends. You now have several corrugated steel circles with holes in the center, ALL the same size! Use some imagination for the body of your muffler.

[auzquad]

learn to spell

<small>[ July 22, 2002, 07:18 AM: Message edited by: Machiavelli ]</small>

[Anthony]

Yes, if you're making a silencer then you want to make the size of the chambers between the baffles different sizes (and not multiples of each other), to better absorb the different wavelengths of sound.

[McGuyver]

The key is to find a straight piece of pipe (preferably steel) that has the exact same inner diameter as your barrel. If you find that then your set.
If anyone has a good source for pipe that has an inner diameter of .22, let me know please. I have the same silencer as cyconite's but with the silencer it is inaccurate. With a pipe inside the silencer to guide the bullet it should be just as accurate without it.

[Anthony]

A silencer the diameter of your calibre isn't going to really make any difference to muzzle noise. Or do you mean drilling the calibre matched tube so that the propellant gas escapes and expands into the silencer casing outside of the pipe?

That could be effective, but I'm not sure that it would work as the transition of the bullet from the muzzle into the pipe coul shave the bullet or make it bounce along the pipe slightly. It'd be hard to get the pipe as tight as the barrel otherwise the bullet would probably rip the silencer off :)

[Anthony Privratsky]

A few years ago i remember watching a show that had an improvised silencer in it. This kid murdered this other kids family for him. :( And he had made a silencer using a carbon tube that had 3 tennis balls pushed into the tube. The tennis balls distributed the sound very well.
I might do an experiment using that same idea later this week.

[McGuyver]

Yes, I did mean drilling holes in the pipe and having that enclosed in a larger pipe. Just having a pipe there would do nothing to silence it.

I would definitely test any homemade silencer remotely a few times before used normally. I've seen a few fly apart already. You definitely would have to stick some kind of rod or dowel down your barrel to make sure they are aligned properly- even then it should be tested a few times.

[Tyler_Durden]

i was just thinking about a way to silence rifles...

what's wrong with drilling the barrel or the rifle, instead of adding to it?

then, add another pipe around it w/ holes in it, and maybe even another if you wanted to.

this method would mean that you dont have to worry about alignment, the loss of aim would be minimal, and overall it would be a lot easier to make.

what do you all think of this?

edit: of course you would want to do this with an inexpensive rifle (sks perhaps), and it would be permanent, so the rifle definitely couldnt be found by the authorities!

<small>[ July 23, 2002, 01:06 AM: Message edited by: Tyler_Durden ]</small>

[john_smith]

This drilling the barrel is already done in MP5SD, Sterling Patchett etc. It lowers the muzzle velocity quite a bit, allowing to shoot normal supersonic ammo. As for permanent, te MP5 has a sleeve on the barrel inside the silencer which can be slid over the holes if needed, giving the bullet nearly normal velocity and also protecting the silencer. I'd like to try this, yet I'm in Europe and thus there really isn't such a thing as a disposable rifle for me.
P.S. IMHO making a SKS subsonic doesn't make much sense. A pistol caliber carbine would be the best choice for this.

<small>[ July 23, 2002, 04:00 AM: Message edited by: john_smith ]</small>

[McGuyver]

Yeah, that would definitely work, I suppose the biggest problem is it is so permanent. The sleeve to put over the holes is a good idea though.

I think the hardest thing would be getting the barrel and holes free of the little metal pieces left over from drilling. If even one metal piece stays in there and the bullet can't pass properly... :( .

[john_smith]

It probably won't be THAT much of a problem. <a href="http://www.border-barrels.com/articles/bmart.htm" target="_blank">http://www.border-barrels.com/articles/bmart.htm</a>, look for barrel lapping.
A link for MP5SD:<a href="http://www.hkpro.com/mp5sd.htm" target="_blank">http://www.hkpro.com/mp5sd.htm</a>

<small>[ July 23, 2002, 12:55 PM: Message edited by: john_smith ]</small>

[Sparky]

I remember a book I read that had directions for a fiberglass silencer
<a href="http://www.overthrow.com/books/view.asp?showCat=Hitman&showText=text20010310174753.txt" target="_blank">http://www.overthrow.com/books/view.asp?showCat=Hitman&showText=text20010310174753.txt</a>

The book is called Hitman and has been forced out of print. Someone killed some people after reading the book and Paladin was forced to destroy the already printed copies and stop printing the book.

[Eliteforum]

That Hitman book is a farce! It has nowhere near enough information for it to be valuable, and just to point out, it was written by a female bored house wife. One of the admin's said something about this book a while back, don't remember who it was though.

[Anthony]

It was probably NBK.

IIRC, the book was originally written as a fiction work, but paladin said they would only print it if it was in the form of a "handbook". Change a few words around and there you go, fiction becomes how-to.

[McGuyver]

John_Smith - Lapping doesn't sound like something that too many people would want to have done. Seeing how homemade silencers are illegal and that sort of thing.

Besides that, lapping isn't possible after there are holes in the barrel :rolleyes: .

Maybe a really stiff wire brush or something along that line would do it. I would still test it remotely a few times.

[john_smith]

I admit having never lapped a rifled barrel, but it doesn't seem so complicated - after all, the point is just to push something that fits very tight through the barrel a couple of times to get the crap out, not building a $x.000 sniper rifle. The brush would probably work, too, and if the barrel survives the first (remotely fired) shot, it'll be additionally and completely cleaned by the bullet. Really not something to fret about.

[Anthony]

I'd imagine that Fire Lapping would do the job.

[McGuyver]

Hey man, nobody's frettin'! I just don't want someone trying this (barrel silencer) and messing up there AK or something. Some people care about their guns- no matter if it's a .22 or a .50 cal sniper.

Yeah I know what you mean by lapping, but I was talking about your article which defines lapping as using lead. Sure, you can stick something that fits nice and tight and lap the barrel. Which is what you need to do, to lap it, after holes are drilled.

Another good thing about the removable silencer is, of course, it being removable. If your walking around with a silencer fixed on your barrel and a annoying neighbor calls the pigs on you- your screwed. With a removable one you just gotta hide it somewhere or chuck it on the run.

[Charlie Workman]

There are a couple of ways to avoid, or at least reduce the burrs in your ported barrels. One is to use a new drill bit or the sharpest you can get. Another is to fill the barrel with lead, drill the holes, then melt out the lead. I can't vouch for that last one, but heard it from a fairly reliable source. If the ports aren't too small you can use a deburring tool to carefully scrape the inside of the hole. If you are going to port your barrel it should be on a gun that can't be traced to you. That way if you have to toss it, it's only a monetary loss. No gun is worth 10 years at Club Fed (US). That's why I tell people if they want to get me something I'll really like for Christmas or my birthday, they should get me a "cold piece". I've got a couple. Otherwise, a detachable/disposable is best. I made one from a liter oil bottle that fitted perfectly on my Ruger MKII bull barrel. I cut off the bottom and filled it with fiberglass pipe wrapping tape, folded into a stack. The bottom was resealed with duct tape. So quiet it was scary.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"To paraphrase Aristotle, life is a gas"
-Gidget

[PYRO500]

And how exactly do you plan on getting that lead out? you would have to use a torch witch would really heat up the barrel and cause the temper (the process that makes metals harder or brittler by slowing/speeding their cooling) to be totally wasted.

<small>[ July 24, 2002, 05:18 AM: Message edited by: PYRO500 ]</small>

[Anthony]

I can't imagine it'd do much for the blueing either.

I think even if the bullet does get shaved slightly by a burr, it might not have *that* effect on accuracy, I guess at wordt it would make the bullet keyhole.

Charlie Workman, what effect did the bullet passing through the fibreglass stuff have on accuracy?

[zaibatsu]

I thought lapping was using a lead plug covered in a cutting fluid? Anyway, I think most professional silencers mainly use a baffle system, and I think that would be the best option, as well as making it detatchable.

[Arkangel]

My old man used to have a BSA Sportsman 5 .22 rifle. It was a neat little bolt action jobbie, with a thread on the end of the barrel for it's silencer. I took the silencer apart quite a few times, and it was made very simply. It was an external metal tube 1" in diameter, with an internal thread at the barrel end, and external thread at the front end. (Naturally the barrel end had been reduced quite a bit)

The front end cap unscrewed, and out fell a number of cup washers that fitted inside. These were made from 1.5mm steel, and had a .25" hole in the centres (forgive my mixed imperial/metric units - I'm at that awkward age)

Altogether there were about ten of them, and a cross section looked like this: (hope it works)

I___ ___I

HEY, my first attempt at drawing something and I understood it. Let's hope you do. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

[Charlie Workman]

You don't have to screw up the temper when removing the lead. It melts at about 700 F (if memory serves). Just don't be too heavy handed with the torch. I object to it myself one other grounds, such as safety. Sharp drill bits or the scraper are safer and easier. Just thought I'd pass it along. I couldn't really test the accuracy effects on the oil bottle silencer. To fit it on the barrel I had to unscrew and remove the front sight. It' cheap and easy enough to test and come to your own conclusions. If you give the can a gentle squeeze after firing, it will blow tiny smoke rings out of the end. Unfortunately, it also blows pulverized fiberglass back into the action, something I didn't discover until I was cleaning it. ACK!
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"To paraphrase Aristotle, life is a gas"
-Gidget

[PYRO500]

lead may melt at 700 degrees but try getting it that temp without heating the barrel to atleast twice that.

[Energy84]

If you take your time and heat it slowly enough, the lead will get hot enough. You could also rig up an oil bath or something (the fluid must be stable to at least 700 degrees) and heat it to the required temperature then dip the end of the barrel into it.
On second thought, you'd probably be better off to just use lead as your fluid. This would give you the means to fill the end of the barrel in the first place (just heat up a large mass of lead in a steel pot and stick in the end of the barrel as you reduce the heat). To take it out of the barrel again, the pot of lead would just be heated up again and the barrel reinserted.

[PYRO500]

Give it up with the lead barrel idea! if you did submerge the barrel in liquid lead that was just about 700 degrees you'l get all this lead slag stuff in the barrel and not to meniton how hard it is to melt that buch lead let alone support it so it dosen't crush it's supports

[Energy84]

It's not very hard to melt lead. I've done it with a small propane torch. And it's not like I melted just a little bit, I had a whole pot full of it.
I forgot to mention in my last post however that I do agree with you, the whole lead thing in the barrel probably wouldn't be a good idea. There are better ways...

[Harry]

Somebody needs to take Remedial Electronics! A whole lot of sombodies!

Electrical solder (and sheetmetal solder, for that matter) is an alloy of tin (Sn) and lead (Pb). It is alloyed to lower the (drum roll please) melting temp. Use the solid-core stuff.

But, if you still get noivous about heating your barrel, there's bullets available that have an abrasive coating for cleaning rust pits in the bore, you could use ice to fill the bore before drilling (start with water, then freeze inside bore. Careful with the gas-operated's!), anything that you can melt in and melt out should work. Lapping the bore is still the best method, though.

Harry

[A-BOMB]

Anybody think of just some sandpaper on a cleaning jag?

[McGuyver]

I don't think sandpaper would be such a good idea. Even though it would probably get the metal shavings out, it would mess up the barrel like maybe take some of the rifling off or something like that.

I think a really stiff brush is the best option.

<small>[ July 25, 2002, 11:52 AM: Message edited by: McGuyver ]</small>

[pyromaniac_guy]

instead of useing normal solder or even lead to fill a barrel to drill it, look for 'potting metal' i know msc sells it here in the states... it comes in two versions, a 'high' metling point material that flows at about 150c and sells for like 20 or 30 bux a pound, and then there is the 'good stuff' an indium gallium alloy IIRC... it metls at something like 60 centrigrade, so then all you need is a big pot of boiling water...

[Energy84]

Bad idea. The temperatures generated from simply drilling the holes will be far in excess of 60 or even 150 degrees C. Especially on hard steel like a gun barrel, I wouldn't doubt if the temps could reach 250 or higher. You'd just need to use a sharp bit, lots of cutting fluid and patience...

[Ron McDonald]

First I just want to make sure that nobody ever tries to silence a shot gun. It is really fun once, then you pick the metal out of your skin. The desings these guys post will work fine, just make it as long as you feel comfortible with. Subsonic ammo is the key. The silencer will only take care of the expanding gas, not the micro sonic boom from the bullet. Sub sonic ammo has less stopping power, but the squirrels in my back yard have not complained about the difference yet. I like subsonic ammo better than silencers, because it is legal.

[rjche]

To silence a 22, cut the barrel off 2 inches from the bolt face.

then put on the barrel stub a 12 inch piece of 1.5 inch brass sink drain pipe.

Use metal washers to mount the pipe on the barrel stub as close to the breech as possible, with one washer at the end of the barrel. That washer has holes drilled in it so gas can pass back to the most rearward washer.

3 inches in front of the barrel end, another washer is soldered inside,

hole in that washer is 3/8 inch.

Every 3 inches do the same but for the end of the pipe use a rubber washer made by crazy gluing innertube rubber to the end. NO hole yet.

when glued, trim excess off the outside of the pipe. This is a flexible orfice to avoid the pop of a projectile passing through a rigid orfice.

To get the hole fire a shot through it, cut a 22 lead so all the round front is gone and its a flat cylinder faced lead slug.

put the end against a wood plank and shoot a hole in the rubber.

use a red hot nail to open that hole up to about 3/8 inches.

This can silence the blast to about the same peak sound level that the bolt of a ruger 10/22 makes as it actions.

22 LR ammo leaves the muzzle at about 950 FPS. so the sound is little.

Sound goes up exponentially as you get above about 800 FPS, and at 1050 it goes up explosively to a very loud noise indeed.

At about 950 its still not very loud, but you are getting more bullet energy, and a little less bullet drop with distance.

Good deadly to 50 yards on hard headed targets. At 100 yards it makes a several inch deep flesh wound, but not instantly serious.

All 22 LR ammo burns about the same in a 2 inch bbl. It does not reach mach 1 till about 2.5 to 3 inches. By using 2 inches allmost all commercial 22 ammo will not crack as it exits the silencer.

both std vel and Hi speed shoot about the same.

The short barrel cuts pressure on the powder before it has burned up, and it just stops burning, and piles up in the silencer.

Do shake it out now and then. Don't want to convert your soldered silencer into a meltdown.

Remember putting ANYTHING on the end of a rifle barrel makes it shoot more or less way off what it used to. Silencers on snipe rifles are usually never removed for its hard to get them back exactly the same, and accuracy suffers at distance.

For emergency use, tying a pillow over the end of the barrel is ok for close up use, like 20 yards. Bolt action rifle with std velocity ammo can be very quiet this way. The bullet shoots through the pillow for a distance of about 3 or 4 inches. Test it before trusting it.

shooting so the barrel end is inside the car, at least a foot from the exit window, with the windown down only enough to let the bullet out without danger of hitting the glass, greatly quietens boom, but not crack. Use std velocity ammo. Same goes for shooting out holes in buildings, etc.

The trouble with soda pop bottle silencers is the flexible sides do not attenuate the sound much. Much better to use a rigid bottle, or

put a sleeve of innertube rubber snug over the bottle to stop the sound exiting its sides.

bicycle innertube rubber slipped over the brass silencer tube also quietens it some.

[rjche]

For long barreled rifles like marlin 39a, drill with half inch drill into barrel end for distance of 6 inches. make a plug to fit the drilled hole for a new barrel end. Drill it with quarter inch drill.

The plug must be a tight fit so no play exists. solder it in, or use epoxy. If must be at least half inch long plug.

This will radically silence 22LR std vel. rounds, and the long bbl slows them down a tad so they very seldom crack even on cold days.

Also it takes a skilled eye to spot the end plug if you do it well, crown it and blue it. If range persons question what ammo you are using have some sub sonic low power stuff to show em, or say you are burning up some very old ammo that has lost lots of its power. Better yet, don't take it to a range. The end plug must be about half to 3/4 inch long so looking into the barrel from the front it looks normal.

Use 22LR std vel. Other subsonic stuff is very quiet with this end chamber. This silencer works best on long barrel guns. Not recommended for 16 18 or 20 inch bbls. short bbls exit pressure is too high, and velocity exceeds mach 1 even for std vel. BBl friction past the 16 inch distance exceeds push on the bullet, so bullets slow down in bbls past about 16 inches for 22. Also exit pressure drops a lot in long bbls due to heat transfer and plain old volume expansion.
That's why such a low volume end chamber does so well on long bbls.

BTW in Finland mufflers are required by law on both autos and firearms. They have lots of data on silencers on a website there.

Search silencers on Google, and search each google page of urls for one going to finland. I think they have \fi\ in their url. lots of charts on pressure, velocity, volume, noise, etc. They also show commercial designs.

[Zyklon_B]

Are there no free sources of firearm silencers? I would think so.

[xoo1246]

Specify "free source". Is that like a natural resource? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
Anyhow, anyone from Finland?, is it correct that anyone can purchase silencers since they are not part of a weapon? Can foreigner purchase them too without suspision.

[zaibatsu]

Forgot to add, suppressors can also be bought freely in the UK by anyone, whether it be fullbore or air weapons.

[McGuyver]

rjche, did you use a drill press to do that, or just wing it? It seems like it be pretty hard to keep the drill bit straight. I guess once you get it started you'd be okay but, if you don't- your fucked.

Not a bad idea though, very slick. :cool:

[Kdogg]

"Are there no free sources of firearm silencers?"
Free? No, ive never seen a place that gives away anything that could be used as a silencer. Unless you mean like a pillow or somthing, But I have always wondered about lawn mower mufflers, they look like they would work. (not the round ones, but the hollow tubular ones.) I think I will expiriment with this.

[Harry]

Even simply drilling out the end chamber will give some benefit, without the plug. Sort of a half-baked flash suppressor effect. Not like a .22LR has any muzzle flash, but some benefit may be reaped in terms of report heard by user. Anybody have a .223 bull barrel they'd like to try this on?

[McGuyver]

Kdogg, I'm quite sure those kind of mufflers have some kind of metal baffles in them. Like pieces of sheet metal to reflect the sound.

So if you want to use one of those you'll have to drill holes through the baffles for the bullet to pass through. It will probably silence quite well though- good idea.

[Energy84]

Uhhh, those straight lawn mower mufflers are straight through. They're like miniature dirtbike silencers. Anybody ever inspected a dirtbike silencer? They're about a foot long, 3 inches in diameter and have a one inch hole through the middle. Intended for *gasp* silencing! :D It'd be nice though if you could find one that has about a half inch hole instead. It'd probably be easier to silence a rifle then. Nice and convienient too because you can get custom silencers made of pretty much anything including steel, aluminum and titanium.

[Kdogg]

its not completly hollow, its got like metal disks in them that the exhaust pass around. (Mine does anyways)You would simply have to put a small hole in those for the bullet to pass through.

[McGuyver]

Yeah I thought most of them had baffles. Of course there are a lot of different kinds, so I guess some could be hollow.

I'm sure the baffles will help though, since they reflect sound and pressure and also slow the escaping gas down.

Keep us posted on your progress. Also, how are you planning to attach it to your gun?

[Deja_W]

At this time most suppressers used in law enforcement are very similar to a barrel extension, with holes drilled in it then around this baffles are placed, then the outer casing. The reason is that suppressers made in this fashion are more reliable, while still retaining optimum sound reduction. Most long guns can be fitted with an internal suppressor, of this nature; this will lower velocity of the projectile, but in most cases it will not affect accuracy too much. Most rifle barrels are made of a type of aluminum, it has a name, but I can’t think of it, but it isn’t to hard to drill a hole in one, if you have a sharp drill bit, and high speed drill. This is a proven fact. I paid the $200 tax to have a silencer professionally attached to an AR-15 upper receiver converted to fire .22lr ammo.Yes suppressers are legal in America, but you have to pay. I was with the guy when he did it, all he did was remove the barrel, cut it down to 10”, slap it in a vise and used a dermal like tool to drill 12 holes in it. After that he welded six disks on, and filled the spaces with layers of screen mesh, and cotton fiber. The end cap was attached to the outer sleeve, and then could be screwed on, of off, to allow for changing or cleaning of the filler material. The sleeve also screwed onto the rear most disk to prevent any big gas leaks. In all it cost me $700, including the tax,and a back ground check, but it was worth it. After seeing it done I know that I could do it my self.

In the end my weapon is very silent, even with standard ammo, because of the short barrel, the bullet seldom flies over 900fps. It has accuracy problems, 12” groups at thirty yards. And I’ve had two feed ramp jams, though that’s not the suppressers fault.

Shotgun suppressors are big and clumsy, but they do work quite well. There is a company that makes an 18” extension barrel that screws in like a standard choke tube, it has holes all along it’s sides. It has no outer casing to cover these holes, but they claim when using sub sonic loads it reduces the noise level significantly. What significantly means is anyone’s guess. Besides, who wants to add another 18” to an all ready long gun?
:rolleyes:

[Anthony]

$700 for 12" groups @ 30yds??? OMFG!

A barrel may be aluminium on the outside, but it's at least going to have a steel liner. Does anyone have any experience at drilling this, which must be pretty hard steel? I'm wondering if normal HSS bits will do, or if you need something more pricey like carbide bits.

I'm guessing you could drill out the end of a barrel, like in rjche's idea with a handheld drill if you didn't have a drill press. The bore would act like a pilot hole to keep the bit straight. It'd probably help to take the bore out a bit at a time, so a drill bit set that goes up in 0.5mm or 1mm incretments would be handy.

[zaibatsu]

Like Anthony says, the barrel's going to be steel underneath, every(commercial) firearm I know of has at least a steel liner. The steel used in gun barrels is pretty tough, but I've drilled into an old fucked up one with HSS drill bits, it was tough though, but that was with a hand-held power drill, a drill press is recommended.

And, like Anthony says, 12" groups at 30yards are shite, how could it possibly be that bad? If it isn't a typo, you got fucked over.

[jelly]

@Zyklon_B
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">Are there no free sources of firearm silencers? I would think so.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">of course... take a look at the very effective "spud silencer", used by IRA terrorists for one-shot terror tactics :D

<a href="http://jelly146.tripod.com/spud" target="_blank">Spud Silencer</a>

<small>[ August 30, 2002, 04:09 PM: Message edited by: jelly ]</small>

[Deja_W]

I’m sorry that was a miss print, most barrels are made of stainless steel, not aluminum. Sorry about that.
After the initial shake down, I’ve gotten rid of the jamming problem, and I can now get 1.5 group at 50 yards, not 30. I’m told that this will still improve, it has to clear the grooves out before it’ll shoot any better. But I started with a blow back conversion unit, the wrong twist rate (1 in 9 instead of 1 in 12) and the wrong groove diameter. So what can you expect? On top of all that the ammo I was using I’m now told I shouldn’t use (aquilla superhornet) the bullet is two light (20-grain or something like that), and to fast, to be stabilized in the short barrel. So I switched to aquilla .22lr thumper rounds, the 60-grain bullet is effectively stabilized in the barrel, and it’s much quieter.
The real advantage to this gun is the fact that in less then sixty seconds I can change the bolt and upper receiver and have my old full power rifle back. Or I can just change the bolt, and I can fire sub sonic .223 out of the silenced barrel.
The guy who did the job knew what he was doing, he used hardened steel drill bits that were just sharpened, and after half the holes were done he re sharpened the bit.
Again sorry for the confusion, this will teach me to not try to explain anything after working 19 hours straight.

[Deja_W]

The 1.5 is in inches, I just needed to clarify that...

------------------------
next time use the edit post function - kingspaz

<small>[ August 31, 2002, 08:24 AM: Message edited by: kingspaz ]</small>

[zeocrash]

From what i have researched, you can fit a permenant silencer by drilling holes in the endo of your barrel, sticking a can full of flame retatdent wadding over it. the silencer must be able to be removed as the wadding will burn out eventually
for a non permenant one which doesnt scratch your rifle, take your pipe desigh nad put some plasic spacers on, this will mean that it does not scratch your gun
--------------------
Does the fact that you're dyslexic mean that you can't use a spell check? And you can't realise that you're typing KeWl ShIt? - Zaibatsu

<small>[ October 04, 2002, 05:04 PM: Message edited by: zaibatsu ]</small>

[subsonic]

Hi, this is my first post in this forum. Yes, this thread is old - but it was very useful, thanks a lot! In fact it was the reason why I visitied this Forum the first time. Please excuse my poor english.

I want to mention that I think the 22LR is underestimated. I just shot through a 2 inch thick Phonebook as if it was butter. If this was a humans head I think it would be pretty lethal.

The Walther "P22 target" is a very good choice for improvised supressors (for a .22). The barrel weight can be removed which gives some nice Space to mount a Supressor on it. Ok, some Parts of that Walther are not built for eternity (some screws) and it is also pretty expensive. But it is good when it comes to hit the target precisely. While my SIG P220 just acts like a shotgun the walther has a very good accuracy.

I have made a supressor for it and tested it. It works very well. First I used some very slow Z-Lang Ammo, it was very silent, but it gave me some reloading Problems due to the little gas amount (224 m/s). The ballistic Crack Table I found following a link you provided here was VERY useful, thanks again. Then I used some Fiocci MAXAC (315m/s). The crack sound was louder, but the suppressor was still very effective. For the future I think I will buy some Ammo that has around 290 meters per second . BTW: the sonic crack already starts at about 290 and rises up to about 400 meters! so using 329m/s will still produce about a 120 dezibel crack although it flies theoreticly at subsonic speed.

you really need this table:
http://guns.connect.fi/rs/bulnoise.html

I used an Alu-Tube (200*30mm) containing a big compression Chamber and 4 little chambers. The Chambers were seperated with some "Screw-underlayers" (30*1.7mm, hole 8mm). These Metal-slices are laying on some Keybunch-rings (31mm) which fit very thightly (have to use some brute force to reduce the spirals diameter) into the Tube. On the other side they are fixed with some steel-repair-epoxy that I pressed into the corners/gaps. So one Seperator is a Sandwich of: Keybunch-Ring/Screw-Underlayer/Epoxy. The sizes of the little Chambers are unregular, between 15 and 20mm. The construction is very stiff and stabile and weights about 180 Grams.

I also used some epoxy to fix a Metalring on the muzzleside that fits exactly on the barrel and has a Screw to fix it. While this epoxy-part was still soft, I used a Rod in the barrel, as someone suggested, to make sure the holes are on the right place(!). As you see, the hole is 8mm, but the .22LR is only about 5mm diameter. So there is 1.5mm Spare Space around the bullet (or the rod). Don't worry, this spare Space does not reduce the silencers efficiency significantly.

When I tested it with the 224 m/s Ammo I shot against the ground, a piece of earth, about 10 Meters far away (sorry, I am not familar with "feet"). The loudest Sound I heared was the impact of the bullet when it hit the ground.

All parts were bought in a supermarket but the Alu-Tube which was taken from an old vacuum cleaner / hoover.

Since Supressors are illegal where I live, i just buried it waterproof in the forest. That's ok, there won't be a kid using it to shoot himself or someting, it's only a strange tube.

I know, building a supressor is almost trivial - anyway, I hope this was useful.

[Bigfoot]

Just in case anyone need a transliteration:

screw underlayer = washer


Subsonic, for a "foot" think approximately 1/3 meter. Or, the length of your shoe. But don't worry, write your posts in metric units, we'll all know what you're talking about.

[aussie_boy]

i read of a story in soldiers of fortune a couple of years ago that they legally sold silencers in kit form that was perfectly legal(from what i can remember)and you didn't need a licience i might be wrong but i will try and find out

[stickfigure]

Most everything you buy in a kit can be considered legal. It becomes illegal once you assemble, manufacture, use, etc.

To clarify the legal silencer issue silencers are legal in 35 States, D.C. is considered a state in the prohibited list which is composed of the more highly populated and liberal States.

www.advanced-armament.com has a list of states and a map that puts it into perspective pretty well.

Deja_W did you have it permenantly mounted to your barrel? I would think that a factory made detachable would have been a better choice, cost about the same, been a lot more reliable, and accurate. The AAC M4-2000 would have cost you $625 plus the $200 stamp-tax, also you would have got a factory warranty with it. Anyway, thats probably the one I would invest in.

On the .22lr issue, this is the prefered round in use by CIA and other Black-Ops units since WWII. Well placed shots can kill or injure depending on what your purpose is. The .22lr is easy to suppress and commonly available. AWC makes a really nice model based on the Ruger MKII pistol called the Amphibian II and it's made for getting wet and salty, requiring little maintanence afterward.

Some of the ideas expressed in earlier replys are rather scary, silencers should be machined and made to exact tolerences. Imagine what would happen if somone tried to silence a .338 Laupa Mag. with a piece of pipe, washers spot welded to the inside and it secured with a couple of bolts drilled into the barrel? Something akin to a 360 degree washer shotgun! Try something small at first BB gun, .22lr and invest in a really nice milling machine w/horizontal and vertical feeds and lathe. In the long run it will be cheaper than medical bills. I know a few people who have tried stupid gun tricks. One of them involved alcohol, a .375 H&H Magnum, a foot, and a few years of physical theropy. Oh, ya and the removal of some floating ribs for bone replacement.:eek: We go big in Montana, Rrreeeaalll Big!!! I don't what to preach but, go if you don't know much about guns, go small. It's a lot less painful

[Charlie Workman]

Stick Figure- What you say about kits is generally true, but not for silencers. At least in the US. The ATF has come down hot and heavy on people caught with silencer kits. Any part that can be used in a silencer counts as illegal possession. Doesn't seem right, but it has stood up in court. Back in the late 70's- early 80's, Shotgun News had dozens of ads for the kits. You could find the tubes a couple of pages away, sold seperately. Hundred bucks or so sent to the two vendors and you had a complete silencer. Designs and effectiveness varied, but I always felt most were overpriced for what you got. Some of the ported barrel .22 kits were pretty sweet, though

"To paraphrase Aristotle, life is a gas!"
-Gidget

[matey]

any links to some plans for 22 apreciated :cool:

[zaibatsu]

You need to learn the very basic and simple principles of silencers first, and then you can design a reasonably effective silencer for most calibres. I'd check out some pages like this (http://guns.connect.fi/rs/Reflex.html) to give you some ideas.

[ozbourne]

Originally posted by CyclonitePyro
(In various dreams)
I experimented with the bottle types, I heated the end of them to make them soft and then shot a hole through it to make a perfectly placed hole, they work well but are not practical and are large.
I make the silencers for my Ruger 10/22, I also have a Bultler Creek folding stock in it and a scope, and some smaller accessories like an extended mag, release, auto bolt release and bolt buffer.
Use subsonic rounds for it, their velocity is just below the speed of sound so the make no sonic boom while flying, that is where most of your sound comes from, I buy 500rd bricks of them and they don't last long with a 50rd clip.
The silencer I use now is a piece of 1/2" PVC pipe, it slides right on the barrel and has and L shaped notch in it so it can slide on past the sight on the end of the barrel and then you twist in so it locks in place and won't slide off. In the middle of it is a metal washer held in place by small sloped nails and PVC glue, The inner hole of the washer is just right for a .22 bullet. On the end are two rubber grommets held in place by nails and PVC glue. It is painted flat black and looks just like a maufactured silencer and works great.
I built it so that neighbors wouldn't complain, and it works well for its purpose. If not for them then I really wouldn't have cared about the noise.
It works nice for shooting animals, Cananda Geese for example, one drops, and the one next to it has no freakin idea what happened, where if not for the silencer, the whole flock would have flew away.

------------------
"Friends don't let friends play with
Nitrogen Triiodide"

Can someone post some pics of this type of homemade silencer or send to my email? All the links for pics from the last two years are dead.
Anyone form the UK want to try to send me a silencer to Canada from http://www.soundmoderators.co.uk/sak22lr.htm
Anyhow worth a try.

[DBSP]

Now what was the point of quoting the hole post? There are basicly no info on the contruction of the silencer itself in that post and it is therefore worthless.

There are sufficient info in this thread to get the idea of how a silencer is improvised, I suggest you read it again. And ther is really now idea to post a pic of a silencer, it's just a pieace of pipe. no more no less.

The inside of the pipe is whats interesting. I could have posted some pics of my silencer but since my brother got pissed and smashed one of the ends in to tight I can't loosen it without damaging the silencer and revealing the inside of it. So no pics, sorry.

[ozbourne]

Sorry about post ing his whole post but I am new at posting and didnt know any other way. yes the inside is what I needed to see , the 2 nails holding the washer etc....Is there any steel wool or any insulator of any kind needed or is it just air that is trapped with this type of home jobby?
I would like to make one so my neighbors wont complain about me shooting rodents on my acreage.

[ozbourne]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by CyclonitePyro
The PVC I found is called Rigid PVC, get the 1/2" It's grey instead of white, I think it's used for electrical stuff, like putting wires through. It makes an almost perfect fit. My dream silencer is 10" long and slides over the barrel so 8" protrudes off the barrel. And yes you're right I used the washer in the center to make two separate chambers. And the grommets go at the end of your silencer, you don't have to use grommets, you could use washers but I found perfectly fitting grommets. And then just make sure you find a way to make them stay in place.

------------------
I bought the 1/2 rigid pvc and it seems to fit very tight but does fit with a bit of pressure. What I need to know is what size of washer fits in there? What hole size is a good fit for the bullet? What are grommets? Im going to get one of these to work and this one seems the easiest.

[xmarinevet]

Clog busters sold at hard ware stores for about $8 make ecxellent silencers and work for about 50 shots with 22 shorts. It knocks the muzzle blast off and the sonic crack.

[ozbourne]

I got one of the PVC silencers to work. The loudest sound now comes from the clank fron the bolt buffer pin. I guess the next thing to do is change that. I got the washers to stay in place by using 2 pvc joiners with a short piece of pvc between them. It actually works great. I also used rubber washers and a plastic bottle cap on the end.

[Garbage]

I have studied silencers for a long time, after hard work I made a good one (picture below). The most difficult thing is to get the correct alignment of the gun’s barrel and the silencer, this is VERY important (incorrect alignment could blow up the silencer). After some experiments I have projected an effective silencer with PVC pipes and steel wool:

http://www.angelfire.com/oz/garbagelive/su/pictures/20.jpg


The military silencers are often many sequential chambers that permit the expansion of the sound blast as the picture shows:

http://www.angelfire.com/oz/garbagelive/su/Su1.1.jpg

These silencers have an excellent efficiency. The problem about make it at home, is that you will never achieve the perfect alignment of the suppressor’s barrel with the gun without any loose, the hole of this silencers have the exactly diameter of the projectile stamping the sound and the gas at the chambers.
I have tired to make silencers with iron and cupper pipes and I have achieved the same efficiency with PVC pipes, but the iron suppressor was too heavy. So I begun to use just light materials like PVC and wood.
The truth about the suppressors is that almost anything can silence the noise of a shot. You could use, for example, a plastic bottle tied in the muzzle of the gun with tape. This silencer will work just in the first shot after that it will have a very low efficiency and if you use this sealed silencer in a gun with strong caliber like M4 it will blow up in the first shot. You could also put a pillow in the end of the gun’s barrel this will provide a good efficiency, but as the first it’s disposable.
Revolvers can’t be silenced because the most of the noise escape between the cylinder and barrel. I’m not sure if a shotgun can be silenced because when the projectiles leave the barrel they open an angle of trajectory (that’s why it’s so destructive in small distance).
Projectiles that travel faster than the sound can’t be silenced too. The travel of projectile creates a loud sonic blast.

The silencer here is very simple and has a good efficiency:

http://www.angelfire.com/oz/garbagelive/su/sup.htm

[NickSG]

Suppressor, not silencer.

Shotguns can have suppressors, but becuase of the powerful muzzle blast, coming up with materials that can withstand the pressure but not weigh the gun down is pretty hard. The same goes with high powered rifles.

Most shotgun pellets are contained in a small plastic cup. After the cup accelerates 18-24 inches from the muzzle, the cup breaks apart and the pellets are let loose. This makes it possible for a suppressor to be attached to the weapon.

[ossassin]

Well, if the individual projectiles are contained in this cup during the entire flight through the barrel, why does the choke make such a huge difference? The projectiles must try to spread out inside of the barrel. This would mean that they would spread out as soon as they left the barrel, which would make trying to build a supressor for a shotgun very difficult (unless you were using slugs.) This is probably the reason reason why the military NEVER uses silencers on shotguns.

NOTE: The term "supressor" means something that lessens the overall report of the firearm. This includes flash and/or audio supressors. The term "silencer," although inaccurate, does prevent confusion.

________________________________________________

My idea is to make one that uses the more modern design with individual chambers. http://www.geocities.com/ossassin2000/supressor1.gif(Copy and paste.) The tubes would be either metal or PVC pipe. The outter pipe would be fairly wide, and the inside pipe would be just wide enough to accomidate the barrel. The inside pipe would have wide grooves in it, running from the end of the barrel to the front of the supressor. It would have the appearance of 3 or 4 thin bars. This is to allow air to flow out of the pipe and into the chambers. The walls forming the chambers would be curved, and they would be glued on for PVC pipe or welded for metal. The front wall of the supressor would simply be a wall like the others. The internal pipe would NOT continue to the end; it would stop at the second to last wall. The front wall would only touch the external pipe. This is different than the drawing.

A threaded end cap would be mounted to the barrel. The external pipe on the silencer would simply screw into it, with the end of the barrel fitting inside of the inner pipe. This design would provide rigidity and keep the supressor from flying off when firing.

Garbage, I suggest that you grind a little slot for your iron sights, so that once the supressor is pushed onto the rifle, it can be twisted and locked into place.

My samply drawing is NOT to scale. I apologize for the poor quality; I didn't have any CAD programs readily available, so I used paint. :)

[NickSG]

No, the pellets cannot spread until they are out of the cup. The cup prevents them from spreading until about 2 feet in flight, in which the cup opens up freeing the pellets.

Shoot at some targets at close range. Inside of one foot you will not see any individual pellet holes becuase the cup has not opened yet. After 2 feet is when you start to see the pellet holes. Otherwise you get one solid hole as if you fired a slug from the gun.

[ossassin]

This is because the "bullets" haven't had time to spread out yet! :rolleyes: They spread out about 1 inch every 10 feet in an 18-inch barrel with an open choke. That's the standard formula for 00 buckshot; it's not exact. You never answered my question. If they stay in the cup for so long without spreading out at all, why does the choke make such a HUGE difference??? I'm sorry, but I think your theory is flawed. (It's an interesting idea, though. You should try making a shotgun round like that.)

I added alot to my previoius post. Go back and take a look.

[NickSG]

I do not have an answer about the choke, but ive seen frame by frame what a 12 guage does after its shot (with a high speed camera). If I can find it I will post it.

"This is because the "bullets" haven't had time to spread out yet!" Even if there wasnt a cup, you would still find little half circles around the edge of the hole. It wouldnt be a perfectly clean hole.

[Garbage]

That was an excellent idea ossassin, the slot works like a lock for the suppressor, it so good that the band clamp is now unnecessary:

http://www.angelfire.com/oz/garbagelive/su/sub1.jpg

Some times is a good idea make the barrel go into the external pipe, you can make a long silencer without increase the guns length.

[ossassin]

How could you make a long silencer without increasing the gun's length? It seems like you'd have to port the barrel. I've always wondered how those integral supressors work. I haven't been able to find any sketches. Maybe they have a huge expansion chamber that begins right after the barrel ends and extends to the breach. After that, they would have several smaller, more standard chambers. It's just an idea.

Nick:
Maybe the reason why chokes make such a huge difference is that they control when the BB's leave the cup. A full choke would help the cup hold its shape as it leaves the barrel, whereas an open choke would allow the cup to widen inside the barrel. Once again, that's just a theory.

What did you guys think of my supressor design? Could it work? Should I try it?

[PHAID]

Ossassin a integral supressor normaly uses barrel porting of some kind and is extreamly hard to do unless you have the proper tools to remove all burrs in the barrel.

With a little metal working you can make a small slim supressor for a .22 thats quite effective.

The overall length was 10 inches with a 1 inch tube and can keep the sound down to the point that you only hear the bolt and bullet impact.

As for the shotgun supressors, all the designs ive viewed show them as barrel supressors so the choke and the type of ammo used isnt a major issue.

[ossassin]

I'm working on a full-sized PVC prototype, and I'm not sure what I should use for the baffles and spacers. I don't have access to machining tools, and I'm afraid that PVC material will burn and melt if I try to shape it with a power-sander. Any suggestions on what material I should use?

[NickSG]

http://www.rit.edu/~andpph/photofile-c/shotgun-shot-seq-1g.jpg

Theres some high speed photographs of a shell going off. Unfortunatly I dont know what size the shot is.

[Garbage]

I think that is possible make a suppressor for a shotgun, but the last end cap must have a bigger hole, because even with the cup occur some spreading, that could destroy the suppressor. It will reduce the efficiency but could work.

[ossassin]

Also, keep in mind that different size shots and different length shells make a huge difference in how quickly the shot spreads. Since the standard tactical load is usually 2 3/4" 00 shot, that's what you should design it for. Of all the possible loads, this is probably the slowest to spread (except for slugs, of course.)

[PHAID]

Why the concern of the shot spread?

Just end your supressor even with the barrel, with good porting and a decent wrap to difuse the heat you will get an effective supressor.

[Garbage]

Spreading of the bullets isn’t the only problem the cup could be locked in the chambers or in the holes of the internal pipe of the suppressor.

[MP5Guy]

Possession of a Threaded Tube, Baffle or distorted washer is by BATFE ruling and "Note The New E Addition" Explosives, constitutes the possession of a Suppressor. Not MY words folks the New BATFE's and can be a pain in the buttocks.

Suppression of a firearm is nothing more than Slowing And Cooling the escaping gasses, remember this... A Can or Muzzle Can will NEVER stop the Balistic Crack of any projectile traveling much over 1100 FPS. You first have to initially Slow the Gasses and now cool them repeatedly to have the makings of an effective Firearms Suppressor, No Questions Asked. How do I know this 40 plus years of trying to find the right conbination. Hey I don't know an Atom from a Bond but I do know Suppressors and there is alot of BS contained above... PVC is an accident waiting to happen. Baffle Strikes are the BIGGEST Factor in the manufacture of a Suppressor. They will HURT you if they happen in a Hi Velocity situation, Trust Me.

Slow,Cool this is the principle and that will never change. Keep safe my new friends, Please stay away from PVC. I know that it is strong but pressure is stronger.

MP

[Jacks Complete]

That photo sequence is very cool.

However, it does show quite clearly that the wad starts to expand quite rapidly. It is only about four wad lengths from the muzzle, yet it is clearly already rippling back, and has definately expanded. At that stage, it isn't going to be happy hitting a hole the same size as the barrel!

Just make the emd into a nice ramp shape, to squeeze the shot again, or make the hole at the end a bit bigger. Yes, you lose more gas and make it louder, but hell, even commercial silenced shotguns are still audible at 300 meters, despite the vast reduction in noise.

[NickSG]

MP5Guy-Supressors a made even for HV bullets, even for the AR15. Supressors are made to make shooting the gun fun, so you can shoot without ear protection and not blow your ear drums out.

Some modern day snipers use supressors on the .308s and .223s. It doesnt get rid of the sonic crack, but it does get rid of most of the muzzle noise. The bullet will make noise its entire journey, so it will be near impossible to tell where the shot came from. This is especially good if your not in your own territory.

Now, for the ones that want to commit crimes with their suppressors, make sure to use PVC pipe (no thicker than 1/8 inch) and only use it in high powered rifles. It will completely silence it and noone will know you did it. :D

[MP5Guy]

The sentence that contains the word NEVER in my post..... Either you have failed to read such or you are unaware of how a suppressor functions in detail. One must Firstly have a decent Expansion Chamber and the best have Transfer Ports leading to a Secondary Expansion Chamber. The gas blast in an efficent suppressor has to be upset on contact with the first baffle. This upsetting is effected via the eliptic bevel cut into each secceeding baffle at an angle aprox. 27 degrees off the prior baffle. This effect should run concurrent through the a series of at least 8 baffles. A final Expansion Chamber after the last baffle further cools the remaining blast gas to it's effective temp determined by it's overall length. Here are a couple primers on the subject have you the time to evaulate them. Thank You... PVC is again JUNK with regard to it's use in firearms suppressors as is anything else intended to carry water or waste from your home. Let alone it's propensity to weaken accordingly with each over pressurization.

http://www.hunt101.com/img/076968.JPG
http://www.hunt101.com/img/076971.jpg

[ossassin]

MP5 Guy, wouldn't PVC work for pistol calibers? I was going to supress a .22, and it seems like PVC would be OK. Not everyone has access to machining tools, you know. I wonder if it's possible to shape PVC material...

[Garbage]

MP5Guy is right, PVC is potentially dangerous when you use it in a gun with a strong caliber. After some time the pipes are fatigued with to many explosions, (the PVC is not made to use in a gun), this also happens with many homemade guns. I thinking about a suppressor made of copper or aluminum pipes…

[NickSG]

Sorry to sound dumb, but what was the point of that post? I read your post, and I clearly stated that "It doesnt get rid of the sonic crack, but it does get rid of most of the muzzle noise".

I am aware of how suppressors work and ive built a few of them for an old H&R .22 I had a few years ago. To answer the above question, yes, you can use PVC for a .22, but you should never use any high pressure cartridges with it (in other words, use subsonics). With iron or steel you can use any bullet you wish.

[MP5Guy]

Nick's Quote: "Now, for the ones that want to commit crimes with their suppressors, make sure to use PVC pipe (no thicker than 1/8 inch) and only use it in high powered rifles. It will completely silence it and noone will know you did it".


Nick my post was not to berate you sir just to save some of your extremities from my former misconceptions throughout the years.... Please continue with your PVC suppressors, it will save me the time in posts like this down the road. And Nick NO Suppressor is completely silent, regardless of what you see in movies:rolleyes:


Even though I love the realm of explosives I do not play in their backyard for I would surely hurt myself... Now I'm going to look up the major manufactures of PVC Pipe and buy some stocks...

MP:p

[xyz]

Didn't you get the feeling that he might have been being sarcastic?

I don't think he really reccomends the use of thin PVC silencers with high powered rifles :) .

[Jacks Complete]

I too picked up a strong whiff of sarcasm in Nick's post.

I suspect that, without mod powers, it is the only way he can thin down the newbies who post stupid shit like "Use a water pipe and a potato on your .50, its well l33t"

I have come up with a novel suppressor design for very low pressure loads, using a new type of plastic that melts at below 100 degrees. The idea is, if it is set onto a gun and used, it can then be "destroyed" before leaving, so that no-one can ask questions.

Obviously, using it with a rifle or even decent pistol cartridge would screw it right up.

[NickSG]

Thank you guys, I was in fact being sarcastic with the PVC pipe thing. :)

However, I was being serious when I said some modern day snipers use suppressors on their rifles. Although you will still hear the shot being fired, the bullet will be traveling great distances while staying supersonic, so without hearing the muzzle blast it would be very hard locating where the shot came from.

[xyz]

Suppressors are also used because they greatly reduce muzzle flash and blast. They make it just about impossible to see the muzzle flash at night as well as reducing the muzzle blast, meaning that the rifle won't kick up as much dust/leaves/whatever when fired from the prone position.

[ossassin]

I'm glad that everyone is finally starting to get it. :) A silencer was not meant to allow a shooter to pick off enemies one by one, leaving the rest entirely unaware of what is going on. They are meant for all-out combat, and they were designed to make it hard to pinpoint the shooter's location. This is why it eliminates the muzzle blast, the muzzle flash, the dust signature, etc. The sonic crack actually gives the shooter an advantage in most cases. Think about it: if a bullet flies right past a target's head, and his line of sight is perpendicular to the bullet's path, he hears the sound on both sides of him. Obviously, he will not be able to tell where the shot came from.

On a side note, a supressor is a very effective muzzle break.

[7.62mikemike]

There is a formula for measuring the speed of sound.The speed of sound varies greatly due to change in temperature.Break out the 99 cent calculator. Temperature in F plus 459 = ? The Sq.root of ? X 49.06= the speed of sound

For example:Lets say it is 70 degrees F

70F + 459 = 529. The Sq. root of 529 =23 X 49.06 = 1128.38 FPS{Feet Per Second}--The Speed of Sound. The speed gets lower as the temperature drops and higher as it rises.This formula works with any temperature.Give it a try.

[xyz]

There's an even easier way, if it's below 1050fps in normal conditions then it's going to be subsonic in most conditions.

The temperature of the chamber and the barrel length have much bigger effects on bullet velocity than the temperature of the day.

Altitude also changes the speed of sound.

[MP5Guy]

A small degree. Change anything in these 3 factors and the SOS changes. Most calculations are based on "A Standard Day". That being 59 Degrees F, At Sea Level,Barometric Pressure of 29.92" of Mercury. Temp is although the biggist variable with regard to The SOS.

MP

[ossassin]

Why so much concern about the speed of sound? If you're going to make a supressor, It's going to be for one of two reasons:

1. You want to be hard to locate after a shot. For this, you don't need subsonic ammo. The bullet breaking the sound barrier will make things very confusing for everyone around you. Refer to some earlier posts if you're not sure why.

2. You want it to be as quiet as possible. For this, you'll want something like a .22 with subsonic ammunition. This type of setup would be used in situations where you probably won't be engaged in all-out combat. If anyone returns fire, your cover is blown.

The military uses silencers for the reason #1. The combination of no muzzle blast, muzzle flash, dust signature, etc. and the sonic crack from the bullet make it VERY hard to pinpoint the shooter or even approximate the direction that the shot came from. Besides, it's nearly impossible to supress most military calibers, anyway.

[xyz]

I only posted the subsonic thing to show that it was not as simple as 7.62mike thought.

There are some "suppressors" (not really but I can't think of another word) that are being made that don't reduce the sound at all, they just diffuse and redirect it so that the noise appears to have come from all directions instead of just one. This would only be good for making the shooter hard to locate though, not for stealth.

[ossassin]

That's basically what I was talking about before with reason #1. I'm sorry if this isn't what you mean. I'm not trying to waste your time. :)

http://www.geocities.com/mr_tack_driver/example.gif

Instead of hearing the sound coming from the muzzle blast, where the blue line is, he would hear it coming from the bullet path, where the green lines point. This is why supressors are still very effective on super-sonic calibers.

NOTE: You may have to right click the picture and hit "Show Picture" to get it to display.

[xyz]

Yeah, it wasn't what I meant, they don't silence or suppress any part of the noise and the weapon is still every bit as loud as it was before. The difference is that the noise from the weapon is directed off in all directions instead of mostly to the front of the shooter. This causes a kind of "rapid artificial echo" for want of a better word and makes it just about impossible to determine where the shot came from.

[Thunden]

Garbage,
I built (in my drems) the silencer you posted,which is great BTW, but I used ceramic wool instead of steel wool and it worked fine...just thought you'd like to know.

Thunden

[Garbage]

I think that any material fluffy and porous could work. I have tired to make suppressors with soaker, tissue paper, wool, and fiberglass mat. Some materials have a better efficiency than others, for me steel wool was efficient enough and was cheap.

[PHAID]

Steel wool is ok for the short term but it will begin to rust and break down after you fire a couple of shots.
Fiberglass insulation works well as does aluminum or brass screen.
If your looking for a quick disposable supressor then all you need is some 1" ID PVC along with a 1" OD piece and get some cardboard washers.
Cut the 1" OD pvc into 1/2" lengths and make enough cardboard washers to get 3 stacked between each spacer.
To get a little better performance you can make the spacers 3/4" and have rolled hardware cloth in each or use aluminum window screen.

[ossassin]

Any ideas on how to attach it to the barrel? My barrel is tapered, so I'm having trouble finding some PVC pipe that will slide onto the barrel snugly.

By the way, I'm having some computer problems, so I won't be posting as often as usual until I get it fixed.

[PHAID]

For the mounting you can glue in smaller diameter PVC sections on the mounting end of the supressor to get it close to size then use electrical tape to build up the barrel to the needed diameter to hold the supressor in place.
It is a crude method and along with the baffles touching the bullet as it goes through them, Your acuracy will suffer but for close in work its fine.

[stickfigure]

It sound like with all that crap stuff in your PVC pipe and it crammed on the end of you barrel you would be better off using a potato:)

Why not take the time to learn how to use a Tap and Ream set and get some quality pipe short and make a good metal suppressor? Geez, people have making them for years in their garages out of metal scraps and they work great. Instead of wasting your time with cardboard and plastic, pick up a good book and read.

[PHAID]

The supressor that was mentioned was an effective gas trapping design that can be quite effective.
What is the point of giving descriptions for designs that you need the metal working skills/equipment that most dont have?
If you like i can give you the plans for a simple design that takes only a few parts that have to be done on a lathe.

[Garbage]

ossassin
If you don’t have any pipe with the correct diameter of your barrel you can put some silver tape on it. The tape will increase the barrel ‘s diameter sufficient for the pipe. Don’t use too much tape or the suppressor will stay loose in the barrel.

[jonesy]

Here, in australia one of the most common methods is the oilfilter supressor mention earlier. befor books such as workbench silencers etc, this was the most commom method and depending on which parts of town u were in u might stumble across a filter or to with a hole in the end.
Anyways most people just help the filter over the muzzle of the firearm and thus many limbs were lost over the years.
Anyways enough on the histroy, a fried of mine a few years back used a large deisel truch oil filter as a basis for his silencer, and through trial and error tried various differant sounddending material in it (after pullingout the origional). He believed that a combination of foam and insulatin with verysmall dash or gun oil was brilliant on his 303 lever action.
I think this sounds kinda suss, iv never herd of a liquid working in a supressor???
has any??

Try to make an effort with the spelling/grammar/punctuation, please

[PHAID]

There are alot of "wet cans" made by most manufactures in the last several years.
A short list off the top of my head for the liquids used are.
lithium greese
urin
water
penut butter
bearing greese

Lithium greese is the most popular

[ossassin]

What is tapping and reaming? Are you saying that I can make a metal supressor without heavy equipment?

[PHAID]

You could probably farm out most of what you need to a machine shop.
The only 2 parts that could be a problem would be the endcaps.
The thread on rockets gave me an idea for the baffles that would give you a good story for having them made at a shop.
The baffles basicly look like a short rocket nozzel so you can use the excuse that you are a rocket hobbiest who makes their own engines and want some nozzels for your new designs.
Its hard to come up with a good story for threaded endcaps though so you will have to find another way to get those made.
My material of choice is Al because it machines well and has great thermal properties alon with the light weight.
Just remember its 10 years and 100,000 fine for having one even if it doesnt work.
When i was a dealer the cost was $3,000 for 3 years on the lisence but that was several years ago.

[stickfigure]

It's more correct to say a Tap and Die set, sorry. You can easily make a suppressor without heavy equipment. I have a book called Zips, Pipes and Pens it has a picture of a submachine gun that a man made in prison that had a suppressor built into it. One if the most effective suppressors ever made only has a Barrel tube that connects to an end cap and that of course is part of the outer jacket. The barrel tube is drilled and has discs made of a non-flammable material that fills the space between the barrel and jacket. The pistol is the OSS Highstandard which is still used today by US CIA and Black Ops. Suppressors don't have to be fancy. Even if you were to buy a threaded fake supressor 80% of the work is already done just cut it open and drill the barrel, burr it out and fill it with brass mesh filter screen. Ream the end caps and reseal it. It may take you a couple years to learn some basic metal working skills but it will pay off in the long run.

[lamar pye]

The pictures posted by MP5 guy are the only effective, longlasting and up to date design discussed here so far. What he showed was a version of K baffels originally designed by mickey finn and they are still in use on american MP5's today. The idea is to have a bevel on the baffel surface to redirect the gases into the space created by the cone.....this robs the gasses of energy and reduces the sound of the shot. As far as deburring holes in a ported barrel goes.....use a 1/8 metal ball tip grinder on a dremel tool to take down the sharp edges......And unless you want a throwaway can don't use plastic pipe, leave the plumbing to the plumbers

[ShadowAlchemist]

My question is for CyclonitePyro..One thing with your method that doesnt seem right, is your silencer has no form of packing in it. I do realize that .22 rifles dont have an abundance of muzzle energy, but i would have thought that more would be required to muffle the 'crack'.
Most designs i have seen for silencers have some form of insulated packing to keep noise to a minimum, but on the other hand I also have no reason to doubt what you say is true.
Therefore:
How does the suppressor cope while firing successive shots?
Can you estimate the number of shots fired through a single unit before it bit the dust; They are temporary right?
Have you had any problems with the washer shifting after continuous useage? Therefore obstructing bullet path :(
Have you observed a noticable decrease in accuracy and/or range.
Have you tried testing different types of ammo? HV, subsonic etc.
If so have you noted obvious Db level variations, accuracy comparisons and/or stopping power?
I hope you dont mind the questions, but thou who has tried and tested a device, will surely know if the device can last the test of time :)
I also believe that mass production follows research and development. Not vice versa ;)
The PVC pipe you are referring to is called conduit and is typically used for sheilding electrical cable. Unfortunately I only have ORANGE conduit in my possession....DOH!

[xyz]

Errr... the crack that you are referring to is the noise of the bullet breaking the sound barrier and no matter how good your silencer is you won't get rid of this.

The only way to get rid of it is to slow the bullet below the speed of sound or (the easier way) use subsonic ammunition.

This is also the reason why it is unwise to use HV ammo with a silencer if you are silencing a calibre that is almost subsonic (ie you won't lose much energy by making it subsonic).

The purpose of a silencer is simply to slow down the speed at which the gases escape from the firearm, sure, packing helps to do this, but packing isn't a neccessity in a silencer (think coke bottle silencer).

A lot of people here don't like it when a newbie turns up asking questions left right and centre without searching for the answers themselves. The other thing that people don't like is being asked to perform tests on things. If you wan't those questions answered, why not make one and do the tests yourself? Obviously, the durability etc. of the silencer is going to depend on the materials and how well it was made.

[NickSG]

If any of you were to actually make a suppressor, the best load IMHO is Aguilas 60 grain LRN. It uses the same amount of powder (but with a shortened case) as regular HV loads, but because of the heavy 60 grain bullet, the velocity out of a rifle is about 950 FPS. Despite low velocities, this bullet has nearly 40 FPE more muzzle energy than standard subsonic loads and at 100 yards keeps 30 percent more energy than standard subsonic loads. Its high sectional density gives this load more penitration than most of the other rounds out there. The drawback to this load is a 1:9 barrel must be used to get the bullet to fully stablize. Its still decently accurate in my M60 however (1.5 inch five shot groups at 25 yards).

Edit: Tests show it will penitrate 23-25 inches in ballistic gel at 200 meters, close to what a .45 FMJ will get at three feet

[ShadowAlchemist]

This reply didnt get off to a good start. For one i somehow didnt realize that this thread had 4 pages(only read 1) and 2, I didnt mean to offend anyone.
Xyz, Believe me i would love nothing more than to test out a suppressor on my own firearm and to record the results...the only problem is that i dont own a firearm!
To be perfectly honest, guns are not my forte. But as you have probably noted by now, I am extremely interested in the concept, hence the numerous questions :)

[DimmuJesus]

It is very true that without using subsonic ammo you cannot completely silence a firearm. But it has also been pointed out that depending on what you are using a suppressor for, it may not be completely necessary. One use that hasn't really been mentioned yet is that suppressors can save your hearing! They are often referred to as "a gentlemen's accessory." They can be used to spare the ears of everyone around the fired shots. For this purpose it is not necessary to completely silence a shot.

For a shot as quiet as possible with the use of a suppressor, go subsonic. Many types of .22 subsonic ammunition have been made mention in this thread. I myself have ordered some 22LR 60gr Aguila SSS rounds. The .22 is the most popular because it is the easiest to silence. However there has not been as much mention about the .45 cal bullet. For more power, although more difficult to construct a suppressor for, the .45 is the way to go. Most .45 ammunition is already subsonic to begin with. I would like to someday own a silencer for a 1911 pistol. There are many places to get threaded barrels for them.

Most of you already know all of this I'm sure, but this is directed to those who have mentioned they are fairly new to firearms reading this thread. I hope this will help out those of you new to firearms as some basic working guidelines.

[NickSG]

DimmuJesus- Unless you have a long pistol barrel (5+ inches) 95 percent of .22LR loads wont get over subsonic speeds. The .45 is actually pretty hard to supress, despite its slow velocities (about 830 FPS with standard pressure FMJ loads). Theres many more times as much powder in the .45, so unless you make your supressor pretty large, it wont be near as quiet as a .22.

[xyz]

Shadowalchemist, How come you now say you don't own a firearm yet in the armoured car thread you posted this?

I myself have setup a business which 'says' i professionally exterminate wild pigs and pests etc, Which means i have now obtained my class D&H firearm licence....mwuhahaha
It also means i now own several semi-auto centrefire rfles, selfloading shotguns and many many semi pistols.Every democracy has its loopholes

One of those two statements is obviously bullshit so you are either trying to be cool by saying you have lots of guns, or you are being lazy and saying you don't have any so that someone else will test the silencer.

[DimmuJesus]

Nick-I had never actually heard that about .22 amuntion and 5+ inch barrels. I had always thought that standard .22 amunition was always supersonic. But hey, you learn something new everyday. However, quite a few .22 pistols do have 5 inch or greater barrels. Especially since so many are made as target pistols. In my experience I've seen more long than short (probably why I didn't notice the subsonic rule you pointed out). The .22 pistol I own (Walther P22) is only 3.5 inches, but even it can be bought as or converted to a 5 inch barrel.

Granted the .45 is harder to suppress than the .22, but it still can be done pretty effectively. I believe it is a granted that the suppressor will be pretty large, for it is a larger caliber gun with a larger frame. I'm going to post a link to a video clip of a Walther P22 with a suppressor and an HK USP Tactical .45 with a suppressor. Both are being fired, and the .45 isn't a whole lot louder than the .22. Also the suppressor on the .45 isn't really all that big, at least in my opinion.

http://www.subguns.com/ATAS/movies/ATAS45small.mpg

[ShadowAlchemist]

Hehehe it seems someone has caught on to my deceitful behaviour.
Xyz, what leads you to believe that only one of those statements is bullshit?
I realize they contradict eachother, but if you were looking at it from my point of view, would that be a good thing...or a bad thing? To answer that question you will need to understand what i have to gain from running my mouth about the guns, or what i stand to lose?
Tis an interesting scenario which was created from un-orthadox behaviour & therefore the subject had to be put to sleep upon re-entry. ;) Dont be mislead, I am merely thinking of the bigger picture :)

[DimmuJesus]

What exactly is that supposed to mean? What could you possibly have to gain by not being truthful to a group of people you've never met, nor will you possibly ever meet? I think more importantly, what does this forum have to gain from all of this? Or is this just your humorous way of saying "I'm busted, you got me, I'm blushing with embarassment?"

[NickSG]

From a 3 inch barrel, my .22LR loads gets about 950 FPS, 100 FPS less with a 2 inch barrel. From a 4 inch barrel, it gets just over 1000 FPS, and from a 6 1/2 inch barrel it gets just over 1100. BTW the ammo used was Federals Lighting RNL ammunition.

[Chemical_burn]

Anthony- I have given it a lot of thought and I am thinking of moding my .22cal air rifle to fire .22cal blanks which I will use to push 15gr airrifle pellets or possibly even fireing .22 shorts or even .22LR's but not sure if the chamber will take the pressure repeadily.

Does anyone have any information on the amount of pressure a .22cal breach is rated at or the adverage pressure created buy a .22cal short,LR,and Mag.

Also does anyone have any information on converting a .22cal air rifle to a .22cal rifle.

Mines a breach load single shot non repeating rifle that is spring powered.

Im going to add a fireing pin slightly off center of the breach so it comes in contact with the rim of a .22cal round. So if anyone has any information it would greatly be appriciated.

[charger]

I wouldn't try firing 22 rimfire ammo out of an airgun barrel. The barrel's diameter is 0.217- to 0.218-inch whereas a rimfire barrel is 0.222- to 0.223-inch, not much difference, but i wouldnt want to try. I got the numbers from http://www.airgun1.com/articles/the_22_cal.html just in case you wanted to read more on this

[Ansgar]

Chemical_burn

What you can do is carefully take off a projectile from a .22 round without deforming it too much. Then you insert the projectile into the air-rifle barrel and push it trough with a cleanning rod.
I did just that with a Diana (German) air-rifle barrel. It was tight in the beginning but when the lead had forged into the rifling the rest of the passage was very smooth. I examined the projectile closelty afterwards and found that the rifling had made very well defined sharp markings and that the maximum diameter outside the projectile was slightly smaller than an unfired projectile. Thus the entire projectile has been deformed a bit.

After that I made a chamber with a 1:50 honing tool just deep enough that it would accept the entire cartridge and testfired it a few times. - Again examining both the barrel and the projectiles.
It worked just fine and since then I have fired litterally hundreds of shots of subsonics as well as high velocities. No problems at all.

By the way - I think the max pressure in .22 weapons is rated to about 1800 bars but I'm not sure.

Take care

[MP5Guy]

Remember these 2 words SLOW And COOL... That is it and ALL you are trying to do. Each time you redirect the expanding gases through one more cycle of this the more efficient your suppressor will be.

PVC,Duct Tape,Glue,Cardboard,Fluffy Insulation,Toilet Paper?? Maybe for Barbie's Playhouse...

Lamar And Stick obviously know what a Suppressor has to be constructed of to be both efficient and durable. A pillow is more effective than any of the Junk Drawer Devices I've heard discussed here to date.

Read, get a book on suppressor design,learn how to use basic hand tools before you shoot off your mouth in a Public Forum and inform even the most casual observer that you know nothing about the construction of an effective suppressor or even the mere principals involved...

And by the way the 60 Gr Aguila SSS .22 RF Round will NOT stabilize using Std .22LR barrel twist rate thus making it even more prone to baffel strikes. Don't Put Your Eye out.

[NickSG]

The 60 grainers dont stabilize well, but they do not tumble. At 25 yards, the groups are less than 1 inch larger.

They work well on the local yotes, and probably as well on humans. They give deep penitration as well as tumbling (in flesh). The only drawback to this ammo is its price and availabilty.

[ossassin]

Mp5 Guy, many of us have very limited resources. I don't exactly have a machine shop, you know. Is there a feasible way to make a durable supressor without one? I haven't heard one mentioned...

[Chemical_burn]

Thanks for the link charger. What would you recomend on trying the blanks to achieve high FPS. Its not that I cant get a secent .22cal rifle its just that I have some wierd fasination with converting this .22cal airrifle to one :)

Ohh well if all else fails I will just rebuild the seals in it and possibly replace the main spring with a stronger.

[charger]

The only pellet gun I have ever owned had a very strong barrel that would probably withstand pressure from a 22 blank from a starter pistol, but I wouldn't recomend trying to use ramset blanks. But this would depend heavily on the quality of the gun in general. if the gun feals cheap overall (in handling, loose pieces, etc) I would not even try a blank. But then again I am a strong believer on the better safe than sorry rule.

[MP5Guy]

Surely a Quality Hacksaw is in the relm of every man as are Files and Squares. Flea Market if your really on a tight budget. And while there one might want to look for a very modest Hand Tap Set.... Time and a will to learn are free and cost less than a roll of Wet Toilet Paper.

The Industry Standard for .22 RF Rifling is 1:16 for a 35-40 Gr. Projectile. To stabilize a 60 Gr. Projectile you are going to need a Twist Rate of 1:8 to 1:9.5. With the Std 1:16 Twist Rate accuracy is going to run past 2-4" Grouping at 50 Yds IF the rifling was cut with a Sharp Broach or Button. If it was done with a Dull Broach or Button expect this grouping to open up another 1-1.5".

In a 1:16 Twist Rate the projectile has almost completed 1 revolution before leaving the barrel. Notice I said Almost because the chamber has stolen almost 1" in chamber length of the overall 16" in length.

Now cut the same 1:16 Twist Rate Barrel down to 2" which means that it is lucky to see 1/16 revolution with rifling cut with a sharp tool.

It does not take a Phd to see that Stabilization will unlikely be imparted to the fired projectile and it Definately will KEYHOLE at 25Yds. With this said what do you think the chances are of a Baffle Strike in an Intergal Suppressed Ruger MKll with 2" of effective barrel and the series of pressure differentials it goes through before leaving the end of the suppressor???

You Be The Judge I Be The One That Has Seen It.

http://www.hunt101.com/img/092822.jpg
http://www.hunt101.com/img/092821.jpg

[NickSG]

Ok, but I never fired them out of a 2 inch barrel. They were from the 19 inch barrel of my Marlin 60. Sorry if I didnt point that out.

Anyway, out of a 2 inch barrel, you can use any load you want, since they will all be subsonic. Ill stick with the 19 inch barrel in any situation however.

[ossassin]

I'm not sure if MP5 Guy's mention of a hacksaw was in reply to what I said or not. Is it possible to make a durable silencer without heavy equipment? (i.e. a machine shop) We've talked about lots of ideas using PVC, cardboard, etc. etc. It sounds like all of the metal ones require speciality tools, though.

[PHAID]

Yes it is possible to make a durable silencer without a machine shop.

What you have to consider is the caliber you want to silence.
The weapon you plan to mount it to.
Also the amount you need it to silence the weapon.
And lastly how long do you need it to last.

The larger the caliber the harder it is to make and it also gets much bigger.

For your standard .22 weapons they are easy and cheap to make with simple hand tools.

[MP5Guy]

Here is a given example of some NO Machine Inards that my Cat could cobble out along with some sites you might want to research. None of which sell Duct Tape,Toilet Paper and the likes...

http://www.onlinemetals.com/

http://www.doall.com/

http://www.engineersedge.com/

http://www.hillmans.nu/



:eek: Easy Project For Any Cat With Access To A C Cell MagLite...

http://www.hunt101.com/img/072069.jpg

[Beethoven_1983]

Excuse my ignorance...But could the noise from a 50.cal precharged pneumatic airrifle be silenced? I mean, afterall, 12 bar become a lot of air (In volume) outside the barrel,creating a loud "WHIZZ" kind of sound. One of the rifles at pyramydair.com got a hybrid-barrel\crossed silencer and barrel...What are this doing to the velocity at the muzzle? I could imagine that the velocity are being greatly reduced? And would the velocity in any airrifle exceed the speed of sound? (If you're not charging your chamber with helium,or hydrogen,hehe...or another gas with lower density than air)

[Omogen]

It seems like there are a big interest in silencers here so i was thinking about uploading the "homemade and improvised silencers" video from aquilifer publications which was recommended by some forummeber here a while ago in a post.

It´s aproximately 45 minutes and covers 3 different silencers and shows the results in various tests with dB levels etc.

So if there are some interests in this one i could up it. Gotta check since it´s around 250 megs and was mildely expressed: "a pain in the ass" to download from the Overnet p2p software.

I also leeched some other aquilifer publications like the homemade firearms video for example which is almost as big as the silencer video but is lesser of interests, atleast for me since they use pretty exotic equipment in that manual which i think most of us haven´t got stacked up at home.

Anyways, Show your interests and I´ll start uploading.

[ossassin]

Beethoven, yes, you should be able to supress it, and, no, I've never heard of an air rifle breaking the sound barrier.

That video sounds great, Omogen! Too bad some of us were refused FTP access...

[DimmuJesus]

You can get ahold of both of these files and others here:
http://www.varkoume.com/shared/index.php?usr=Aquilifer88
You will need eMule, eDonkey, or Overnet to download these through P2P. As Omogen said, it can sometimes be a pain to download. I downloaded the silencer video, however, in less than a day.

[zaibatsu]

Air rifles (mostly PCPs) can break the sound barrier, although they can be innaccurate at long range, I think this is due to the supersonic wave hitting the pellets as the decelerate.

[Ansgar]

zaibatsu -
Did you actually measure muzzlevelocities from an airrifle to exceed the speed of sound ?

Because I can't understand how a gas (in this case atmospheric air) should be able to move anything, including a pellet, faster than it can move it's own shockwave. I can understand it when you have a continous supply of energy and thus heat like in a jet engine or in a normal firearm. But when a gas is just expanding and moving itself, either by precompression or by a spring piston - I can't imagine that it, nor anything it touches, can move faster than the speed of the shockwave (sound).

I myself have never measured any airrifle to exceed the speed of sound. But then again, I have not had access to any of the modern larger airrifles.

[Beethoven_1983]

But would the 50.cal projectile be bounced off-course of the supersonic wave? I heard that the microscopic mass of the 4,5 mm pellet would be accurate until the velocity lowers to sub-sonic. (A few meters) And thats because its no use with the standard BB-caliber\4.5 mm in supersonic muzzle-velocities...But...would the same aerodynamics interfere with the 50.cal accuracy?? (The 50.cal pellets comes upto 275 grains in weight-4.5.mm comes in 0.9-12.0-13.0 grain, I'm not sure what this is in grams)

[ossassin]

Thanks, Dimmu! There is some great stuff on that site! It looks familiar. Has it always been P2P?

[DimmuJesus]

Yes, most of it has always been P2P. This is the same person who authored the White Resistance Manual. Alot of his stuff keeps popping up on P2P and FTP servers. It's been awhile since I've seen anything new from him, and slowly one by one sites hosting his content keep disappearing. Wonder what's going on...

[zaibatsu]

I read it in a report in an airgun magazine. I don't see how they could have got a high ft/lb with avergage weight pellets other than a high muzzle velocity, breaking the sound barrier.

[NickSG]

Its true that some air rifles can break the sound barrier, although im not familar with any in PCP. The PCP ones ive seen are usually big bore, and are meant to push heavy bullets a lot slower than the lightweights. The spring piston ones are usually the ones that break the sound barrier.

I used to own a Gamo that got 1250 FPS with 7 grain and under pellets. I cant remember what model it was, but I clearly remember hearing the "crack" as I shot it off. The thing isnt fun to cock though.

Despite what some people say, the thing was actually pretty damn accurate. At 25 yards I could easily get groups less than 1 inch in diameter (5 shot), but out to around 50 yards the pellets were keyholing. It could still hold 3 inch groups at 50 yards however.

As far as I know, none of the .50 caliber airguns can get supersonic, but I could be wrong. When they do, they are less effected but changing to subsonic becuase of their heavy weight. .177 pellets, which usually weigh 7-12 grains (about 1/2 gram) arent as heavy and arent as stable when hit by the wave. This usually cuases them to tumble and keyhole.

[Jacks Complete]

All bullets are affected by the change in shockwave when transitioning through the sound barrier. Either start subsonic, or keep it supersonic. There is no other way to be accurate!

As for how can an air rifle break the speed of sound? Simple.

The speed of sound is related to the temperature and presure of the air. The temperature and pressure of the air pushing the pellet is higher than that surrounding the gun (gas temps rise as pressure goes up) so you can do it!

[charger]

I was looking around and came across adapters for shotguns at http://www.e-gunparts.com/DisplayAd.asp?chrProductSKU=881160&chrSuperSKU=&MC= and i was wondering if the centre fire adapters could be used to make a silenced firearms, using the shotgun barrel as a silencer tube and a specially made choke tube (reduced in size to a mm or so wider than the bullet) as the endcap. With these in place, you now have a silencer tube about 20" long. You can then add internals if they are needed, but the mere size of the tube should significantly reduce the sound.

[zaibatsu]

Interesting idea, but I have to question whether such a short "barrel" could stabilize the bullet sufficiently. Problems would occur if it couldn't as it would hit the endplug, ripping it out.

[charger]

One could possibly make their own adapter like this, it shouldnt be too hard to do on a metal lathe, but make it a bit longer maybe a 5 inch barrel and rifle it by inserting a barrel liner. I think that might stabilize it enough so theres no problems with hitting the endcap

[zaibatsu]

Oh, of course, you could take a commercial prechambered barrel, cut say 6" off from the chamber side and turn to fit the dimensions of a 12g cartridge. But I figured that might change the idea of a simple silencer. However, it would make criminal investigations a little harder, as you could use the shotgun with "silencer" and pistol calibre insert, and throw them both away after any activity, and there would be no permenant mods to the shotgun.

[Bigfoot]

Charger, Zaibatsu:

Do it right, that trick will work better than you might think. In fact, I've seen such a setup using a flare pistol as the platform. All components were off-the-shelf: flare pistol, flare adapter, 12 ga. to .22LR or 9mm adapter. Film can on the muzzle completes the setup. Duct tape. Copper wool for the 9mm.
Those 12 ga adapters can be had in steel. The Numrich ones are aluminum.

One adapter was modified with a hacksaw.

SWIM made it according to PMJB vol 2., added to design.

[Ropik]

I am just uploading Hayduke silencer book now. I have only parts 2 and 3, but all planes are in these parts and I can figure out that none of us should be too sad without the chapter "Some neat thing that you can do with silencer" which was basically wrote to explain you that you can turn off the pesky street lights with silenced .22 and without chapter "You last chance to be legal" which explains how you can legalize your silencer.

Go on and happy (quiet) shooting!

I hope that you enjoy this book. ;)

[coolbig2]

Before anyone yells, I don't want to completely anilate it, it's not possible, I just want to reduce it.If anybody can help me with this, email me at jrcooke117@hotmail.com THANKS!!

[Spotter]

I have build a Zip Gun that works with cal. 6 mm long blank and 4,4 mm Airgun Pellets. I also build a Silencer. I was very suprised when i fired the First Time. a Lot of Power and very low Noise.
But i used good Tools and a Lathe.
If anyone will see some Pictures of this thing, will will make some and show them here.

Ahm, sorry for my Bad Englisch. i came from Germany.

MFG Spotter: Signing your posts is not permitted! NBK

[john_smith]

A theoretical question. Would a non-concentric (in fact, more like box-shaped) suppressor work? I'm thinking a small 22 auto, with silencer body being flush with the top of the slide (so that sights can be used) but extending back and down all the way to trigger guard, and maybe 2-3 inches forward of the guns muzzle. Basically the goal would be a concealable silenced pistol no more bulky than a normal 9mm service auto.
One problem I can think of would be the different rate of gas bleedoff and pressure above/below the bullets path so it may become destabilized or knocked off course, however, a longer ported barrel reaching almost to the end cap should solve it...I think. Are there any other reasons why it wouldn't work?

[Narkar]

no need for it to be box-shaped. The mother of all silenced firearms - De Lisle carbine had an off-centre silencer. It looked like ordinary but the barrel ran near the top end so the iron sights could have used.
It might be a problem when you just make baffles, but De Lisle had ported barrel instead, baffles outside, so the ported barrel still held the bullet on its path. Baffles were outside of it.

[Bigfoot]

At least one of the old commercial Maxam designs was non-concentric. Probably for the same reason.

[teshilo]

Book Silencers: patterns and principles vol 2(Iupload it to forum ftp) contain nice info how silence you own full auto smg; UZI,MAC etc... As disposable silencers and for reduce noise they used baffled bags, may be this simple canvas or plastic bags inserted one in one.This bag may used as shell trap.

[john_smith]

One reason for it to be box-shaped was concealability. A round can, even if it sits lower, is still kinda bulky. I thought about making it not (much) wider than the gun itself, with most of the silencers volume and bulk being under the barrel. Or more exactly, a short, small diameter baffle assembly forward of the muzzle like it normally would be, and an initial expansion chamber situated below the barrel.

OTOH, the Chinese Type 67 (www.smallarmsreview.com/pdf/Chinese67.PDF) pistol uses a cylindrical can and is pretty small enough, so probably it could be done the normal way as well...

[zaibatsu]

Mounting a supressor on a pistol in the same way that the Chinese have done in this pistol (if I'm thinking of the same one) is going to be tricky. I guess it depends on the type of .22 you were considering, but if I was making a pistol designed to be concealable I would start with something like a .22 version of a PPK with the recoil spring being wrapped around the barrel or underneath, this being in contrast to something like the Ruger .22 pistol which uses a bolt I think. The reason for this is that I think although during the firing cycle a slide will extend outwards, increasing the length, but however when concealed will have a smaller OAL. But, with a suppressor, you would encounter sealing problems IMO trying this method, also increased heat transferred to the barrel, as I assume the supressor would be along the majority of the length of the barrel.

Therefore I think to keep the pistol small enough to be concealed, you would have to try to work on some sort of dual-recoil spring method, like an AK. Otherwise you'd basically have a large .22 machine pistol.

[mark151]

Hey guys. Haven't posted in a while since I missplaced my last account(regular mark.) Anyway, I've been looking online for a while and found this hillarious little .22 deringer kit. Now, I have held off on buying the thing because
a) the thing is single shot
b) it has no saftey
c) I had no logical use for it(I own a 10/22)

But now, I've got to sceaming about slapping a silencer onto the little devil, and I was wondering what yall think. Is the pistol just to ridiculous? Would it be possible to sillence such a dimunitive firearm? Would it even be effective? Is the thing just an accident waiting to happen? And finally, could the barrel be lengthened?

http://www.gunsnstuff.net/FAC/002.asp

Thanks, Mark

[tiac03]

I have fired .22 subsonic shorts (CB's??). All I have to say is that although you can easily hear the delay between the gun being fired and the lead hitting the target (really slow), the upside is that the actual firing makes almost no noise. (You actually hear the pin hitting the cartrige). Makes less noise than my air rifle does. Would be perfect for city use....

Also I had a dream once where I went to Home depot and bought a few of the standard water pipe fittings. Then connected the puetogether (since threads on them all connect nicely).

Tools used were pretty simple: a grinder, steel wool, and a thread making set)
luckily the .22 in the dream alrady had its barrel threaded on the end... so it was just a matter of finding the right threading tool to connect the silencer on. (used many things in it to reduce the noise, like cardboard baffles, steel wool, "great stuff" foam, smaller tube with holes in it etc.)

Now it did reduce the noise some what, and 1 shot was almost soundless. But there were also complete failures (big loss in accuracy, absolutely no sound reduction). So all in all it was only slightly effective. And since I don't need to be quiet when shooting, I sort of gave up on the project.

I'd post pics of the dream but should suffice to say that it looked like a pipe bomb but with a tube running down the middle, a hole on either end, and one end threaded to fit threads on rifle. (overall size about 6 inches. diameter slightly larger than the diameter of a 12 gauge shell).

Findings:
.22 not worth trying to silence especially since you have all the different types of ammo for them.

[#93]

I own 3 silencers two .22 integral, these bleed off gas to keep regular ammo subsonic, and one 9mm screw on can. Some general rules of thumb on silencers are

· The more volume the more noise reduction.

· For 2 cans with the same amount of volume a longer can with more baffles will be quieter.
· Use of an ablative quiets most. Putting some oil. Shaving cream, KY jelly near the barrel end of the can absorbs some sound. The silencer works by taking the heat, volume, & speed away from the gasses leaving the muzzle. When an ablative is used the gasses evaporate it using a lot of energy depleting the amount of noise. (not on centerfire rifle caliber silencers)
· Baffles that are cone shaped are more effective than flat ones. The point of the cone should point at the muzzle.

My .22 cans are about an inch in diameter and 8 inches long with baffles about an inch to 1.5 inches apart but these are professionally made, efficient silencers larger for a home build would be recommended.

As already stated use subsonic bullets. The sonic crack is nearly as loud as a .22 rifle being fired.

This is my first post, I hope it is helpful.

#93

[guerrero]

I think a very good gun to combinine with a selfmade silencer is the old russian (or belgian) 7 rd 7.62 Nagant revolver. During WW II the german secret service used such models with very good results. It is a quiet cheap gun now. The cartridge is a low pressure one and the bullet energy is comparable to the 32 auto. The advantage in comparison to a pistol is, that there does not exist any noise of repeating and the cases aren´t ejected.

[john_smith]

The Nagants bullet energy is actually more comparable to 32 H&R Magnum (slightly below 300J). There's also a more modern revolver using the same principle, TOZ - something (TOZ 34 I think, but not quite sure), in both 7.62 Nagant and 32 S&W, but its probably not much better than the original Nagant.

[raptor1956]

I heard a rumour once of a shotgun using a silencer made out of a "Franz" truck oil filter. They use 2 rolls of oil soaked toilet paper as an element, so it would have been quite big & bulky, but it apparently cut the noise level by more than half. Anyway, it's an idea worth experimenting with.

[achmeinaugen]

I just found this site from a recommendation from a friend. I have been very involved with firearms for more than ten years, and can probably lend some insight to some of you.
First I must thank MP5guy for setting the twist rates for 22s correctly.
If you want a 22 can, that is going to be quiet, there are few things that you will need.
1. You will need your barrel threaded if you ever plan on taking it apart. Most of the attachemtn systems I have seem for improvised cans are ineffective or else loosen up and blow off the gun. Superglueing and tube connectors (the adjustable metal rings) leave large gaps for gas to escape.
2. You will need to make the endcaps and the sleeve of the suppressor. As stated endcaps are hard to make yourself, nad you need to be very sly to get them made from a machine shop. In most home builds these are the weakness, take your time in making them, and make sure that fit exactly into your sleeve. The sleeve is not a problem, as most peope can order a tube of some inner and outer diameter to their preferance. For a 22, I would suggest a tube of at least 6", and if you want to use aluminum, get 40xx with T6 heat treatment or better.
3. Your entire assembly needs to be able to withstand at the very least 5000psi over the exiting gas pressure of the cartridge you intend to use
4. Baffles. A sleeve of the same diameter of your host barrel is going to degrade accuracy and only give you marginal suppression. A person can make good baffles from the washers that are intended to be put in hole in engine block (freeze washers?) They are available in 1/2" 3/4" etc. They arleady cone with a hole that is exactly centered, you only need to ream to the correct size. In all suppressors, the baffles are marginally bigger than the projectile, but since this is a home build, I would recommend a hole at least .30" clearance between your suppressor and the center of the bore of the barrel. For centering this, one can buy a metal rod that is just undersize for you barrel and stick it in your barrels while aligning, and if so desired, get another shorter rod about 12" and the outer diameter of the interior of you baffles, and use those as a guide. All that needs to be done is to dremel or, if you have it, use a lathe to make them conical (about a 30 degrees or better pitch). depending on the worksmanship, you will want between 7 and 10 of these in your suppressor. 22s do not require very elaborate baffles to suppress effectively, like 9mm, 45, or rifle suppressors.
5. Attachemtn of the baffles to the suppressor tube. You will need at the bare minimum of a very good soldering iron, I recommend a welder of some sort (just make sure your welder will work with the material of both metals you are welding ei. do not use a MIG with aluminum). Yuo will want an expansion chamber of about 1" on a 22, you can decrease that if you want, I really don't know what works best here. Then place the baffles in increasing intervals (the first one close the the secons, the third a bit farther from the second, etc.)
There you go, you now have a very decent suppressor that has been tested. I am in IN, and paid the tax stamp to make one, and it is good for about 25-29dB reduction. Different brands of ammo act differently with different suppressors, try different loads to get the best of whatever you are looking for.

When i have the tiem again, I will type another post about rifle suppressors, and try to find a host for some pictures to make what I have said more clear.

[Jacks Complete]

Raptor1956,
cutting the sound level by half is only a 3dB reduction, and you can do better than that with a condom over the muzzle!

achmeinaugen, you can weld aluminium, just clamp a thin bit of steel to either side, and take it easy, doing small spot-type welds.

[Man Down Under]

Old thread, but the most relevant one to what I found. (I UTFSE. :))

The things I found most interesting was the use of lithium grease and .380 in a 9MM.

Formatting is original source: http://guns.connect.fi/rs/mxgraaf.html

vvvvvvvvvvvvv

Minireflex Sound Moderator is primarily a muffler of excessive noise; also known as "semi-silencer". Silencing effect is, however, available in full extent just by use of subsonic cartridges. "Ballistic crack" or "whiplash noise" of bypassing bullet is unavoidable evil, if flight velocity of bullet is as high as velocity of sound in air at ambient temperature (Actually must bullet velocity be less than Mach 0.85, because development of flight noise will start along with transsonic velocity). See an image about bullet flight noise for more information.

For extra silencing effect, Minireflex Moderators are strong enough to be used also as a "wet" suppressor, by applying about a spoonfull of grease inside the moderator from its back and spreading it with a stick among the baffles and away from the bullet path. Grease or liguid inside a sound moderator absorbs muzzle blast energy by its immediate vaporization. The effect stays for 3 ... 20 shots after each refilling, depending on the properties of the absorbing substance. Ordinary lithium based lubricating grease is one of the most easily available absorbers. See Alan C. Paulson's book Silencer History and Performance for more details about wet suppressing techniques and noise absorbers. Caution! Do not over-fill the moderator, as it will raise the inside pressure beyond a risk of suppressor damage!

Functioning of recoil action pistols is inherently sluggish or deficient, because of extra weight attached to recoiling barrel. A great many pistols will eject and/or feed reliably no other loads, but those with extra heavy bullets (weight 9 g or more). A makeshift trick is to obtain an extra recoil spring, and cut it short enough to reduce spring tension 20 to 25 per cent. This method may, however, result in feed jams - especially when the magazine of the pistol is crammed till it's nominal capacity. Shooting with reduced tension recoil spring and without Sound Moderator may curtail life of pistol, if powder charge of cartridges (behind standard weight bullet) is not reduced along with spring tension (20 to 25 %). Use of heavy bullet and reduced charge is the most advisable way to get reliable autoloading of the pistol, along with reduction of shooting noise. Some brands of 9 x 19 mm Subsonic cartridges with heavy bullets are available factory loaded (f. ex. Lapua with 9.7 g CEPP bullet), but any experienced handloader is able to develop and reload "subsonics". Cast bullets of lead alloy are excellent for these loads. Recommended bullet weight is circa 9.5 g /146 grains. Bullets with round point are best, if reliable functioning of pistol is of vital importance.

If automatic function is unnecessary, it is possible to get very good silencing effect by rather heretical use of 9 mm Browning Short (.380 Auto; 9 x 17 mm) cartridges with 90 to 95 grains bullet, velocity ca. 265 m/s. Theoretically it is impossible to shoot cartridges having 17 mm case length in 19 mm chamber, but in practice most 9 x 19 mm pistols are able to fire 9 mm shorts. However, when cycling the slide manually the extractor hook of pistol will keep the cartridge in reach of firing pin. Feed from magazine is also usually reliable, in spite of less length and diameter of cartridge. For target practising without disturbing the neighbourhood, using 9 mm shorts is usually an economic way. Because the pistol does not "sow" spent cases all over, also unnecessary littering of the surrounding is avoided.