Caltrops and other Impediments to Movement

[nbk2000]

As part of the PDF, I've been doing some research on various impediments to restrict an enemies movements that don't use explosives, hence no mines.

Probably the oldest known example of such devices is the caltrop.

In most cases this is a 4 pointed star made from two pieces of strong wire that are welded together and has the points sharpened.

This is rather unweildy to make though since it requires a grinder and welding equipment.

So I've come up with a better design. (pictures will be posted later, I'm tired.)

Using a melon scooper as a mold, I molded a half-spherical plaster weight with a 1.5" nailed cast in it with the nail centered in the plaster.

After some experimentation, I discovered that the caltrop needs to have a small flat surface at the bottom to reliably point up.

The caltrop is 1" diameter at top, 5/8" thick, with a 1.5" nail, 7/8" of which protrudes out the top.

The flat spot on the bottom is the size of a dime.

Used a marker to camoflage it black so it'll blend in the dark.

The caltrop, on tile flooring, tends to roll around in a circle for a few seconds before stopping point up.

On carpet it bounces once or twice.

It usually has the point up, but since the mold isn't perfectly round, but rather has slightly straight sides towards the top, the caltrop will sometimes sit on its side.

Also, plaster, being of rather light weight, doesn't provide a lot of weight to counter the weight of the nail.

Improvements intended for my next experiment is to use a perfect half sphere mold, and to add small lead shot to the bottom of the mold before adding the plaster to ensure maximum bottom heaviness.

Also, short cut lengths of hair added to the plaster to add strength and prevent cracking.

All this will enable me to use a longer length of nail, increasing the wounding potential.

The next step after that is mass production because a handful of these isn't really much of anything. Only when you have enough to cover a road with thousands, or a hallway or stairwell with hundreds, do you then have a REAL barrier.

My idea of mass production involves using half-spheres of either plastic balls or rubber. These halves are laid flat on a board in staggered rows, then whole being within a frame, perhaps a cake pan or such.

This is filled with wax and allowed to cool.

This is then removed and the halves removed. This leaves an empty space in the shape of the halves in the wax block.

The voids have a small amount of lead shot added, the nail centered, and the plaster added till the void is filled.

After the plaster sets, the caltrops are pulled out. If they can't be pulled out, the wax can be melted and reused to make more molds.

Assuming a dozen an hour, you could make more than a 150 in a day. Most of that time is waiting for the plaster to set.

If one had the patience and equipment, the caltrops can be improved by soldering on very large fish hooks so that anyone stepping on them can't remove them easily.

Another easier improvement is to cut a small notch with a hacksaw a little behind the point and to dip the point in fresh horse shit.

Horse intestines is the natural home of the gas gangrene bacteria. Their shit, when it gets in a wound, causes a very rapid infection of gas gangrene, necessitating amputation if mega-doses of antibiotics can't bring it under control.

Caltops are best dispensed where a person will literally run into them. A person walking along, watching their step, is in no danger from them.

But anyone running, having to dodge your fire, taking cover, or unable to see them before it's too late, will become casualties.

Good places to put them is in dark places (obviously), stairwells, hallways, under shallow water (puddles, sewers), around doorways (out of the sweep of the door), in blind spots that the enemy may seek cover, around corners the enemy is likely to rush around, and in areas that you won't be using to prevent infiltration.

I'd especially recommend having them in the blind spots around your house, inside of your fence line. A half circle extending out for a yard from any trees that someone could hide behind, behind any dead cars, tree stumps, well pumps, etc.

Unlike mines, there's no risk of these going of spontaneously and drawing unwanted attention.

And if you presweep the areas you'll be emplacing the caltrops in with a metal detector to remove any metal scrap, you can then easily recover them with near 100% certainty later on.

Anti-traction agents are another means to impede movement. This can either be liquids that act as lubricants, or solids that are slippery.

The cheapest sort of slippery solid is the polyethylene shopping bag.

As anyone who's almost broken their back from slipping on one can tell you, they're....slippery.

This is because polyethylene, when rubbing against itself, has a friction co-efficent almost equal to wet ice.

So, collect those plastic bags and lay them flat on the ground. Stepping on them cautiously is safe, but doing it while running is an invitation to a wheelchair. And imagine the suffering if you covered caltrops with the bags. Oops. That's got to hurt!

Motor oil, used in large amounts, is very slippery too, and can be used on inclines, embankments, and turns to cause vehicles to wipe out prior to being ambushed.

Used motor oil is free for the taking at oil-change places and behind mechanics shops.

Polyvinyl alcohol, mixed with a 2% solution of borax in water, will form "slime". The same kind of slime that kids play with that is superslippery. This used to be made under the name "RIOTROL" by Dow.

Also called "Liquid Banana Peel", this stuff makes standing impossible. It'll dry out in a few hours into a white filmy material, but it can be re-activated simply by rewetting.

The addition of a small percentage of glycerine increases it's staying power before more water is needed.

Any of these is best used where gravity will help things along. Stairways are the best place since a slip here means a very painful, possibly fatal, fall. And I've never seen SWAT gooners holding the hand rails either. :)

None of the above will work very on rough surfaces like carpet, gravel or textured concrete. Tile, linoleum, or similar work best.

Nets are underappreciated. While a person usually thinks about the net being thrown on top on someone, in this context we're going to have the net laid down nearly to the ground.

By mounting a net at about shin height on stakes, you make any attempt to suddenly rush you impossible.

This doesn't really work in urban enviroments, but comes into its own in rural areas where the netting can be concealed in tall grass or shrub.

The net is made of a strong, but light material, like spectra fiber or kevlar.

The "cells" of the net are about a yard or two on a side. This allows a person to takes a step or two before falling down again, repeatedly.

The net is most effective when used in depth since it'll demoralize them and give you time to engage them. It also hampers their attempt to retreat.

Nighttime is most effective obviously. And both the oil and net can be enhanced by adding caltrops. Because it's bad enough to fall, but it's even worse when you fall on a dozen shit smeared nails. ;)

Now what I want from you are your ideas.

PLEASE, try to keep it original and detailed, OK?

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"I have begun evil, I shall end evil. That is the end that awaits me."

Go here (http://briefcase.yahoo.com/nbk2ooo) to download the NBK2000 files and videos.

[Machiavelli]

Concrete reinforcement wire mesh is very useful for making caltrops. When you cut it you have a whole bunch of cross shaped wire thingies which just need some bending and maybe sharpening to get you some original badass caltrops.

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Give someone a match and he'll feel warm for a few seconds, set him on fire and he'll feel warm for the rest of his life

[FragmentedSanity]

Lo all :)

just a question NBK - how would your coltrops stand up to a car? would a single spike with a plaster base be of any use? or would the traditional cut and bent mesh be better?
if your after something thats quick to mass produce buy a roll of barbed wire and snip the barbs off = thousands of nasty ass little stinging devices in very little time - the biggest /thickest barbs you could geet would be best - but the small size and ease of production means you can spread them over a ifar distance with a reasnobly high denisty. now these arent likley to kill anyone (unless you put ricin or some other poison on them i spose)but they would certainly slow someone down. and if you chopped the excess wire up small too and added it into the mini coltrops the person would be more likley to slip and its a more efficient use of your roll of wire.
later
FS

[EventHorizon]

Buy a 50# box of Simplex nails. They come in several lengths I beleive, with a (now) plastic disc around the head. They were/are used to fasten down tar paper and insulation board. They almost ALWAYS land point up, especially the older metal head ones. Beleive me, I know. :(

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"Chance favors a prepared mind" - Louis Pasteur
"Happiness is a large pile of links." - Me
PGP ID 0x147CEF54

[CyclonitePyro]

I've seen a type of foam that you buy in rolls, maybe carpet padding?, it's like a big foam blanket, well, one could stick as many shit smeared nails as he wishes through the foam and roll it out wherever you please, like a carpet of nails or spikes.
You could make strips out of this too.
You could use good old fashoned trip wire, with some of the above too, ouch.
For slipping you could use plastic beads strewn all over.
Too bad we don't have much younger forum members they could tell us what the good guys(us, of course) do to the bad guys(swat, FBI,CIA,DEA,INS-if yer a spic)in cartoons, and what that kid does on the those guys in the "Home Alone" movies.

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"Friends don't let friends play with
Nitrogen Triiodide"

[This message has been edited by CyclonitePyro (edited 11-28-2001).]

[kingspaz]

this may just be a method of slowing down me but trainers make a good obstacle if theres lots of them. their shape seems to allow you to twist your ankle easily. in a hallway maybe? i like the net idea. nets are bitches to get through. anybody remember those big obstacles for stopping tanks? like 3 big bars of metal welded together so whatever way they were turned they'd still stand. imagine those but smaller with sharpened ends. they would be quick and simple to make. i think they would be useful to scatter across a road to stop all wheeled vehicles. if they could be made or tubular metal then the puncture would be instantanious as the air could escape out of the tube. may also be useful to throw a box out of your car in a car chase...
neck height cheese wires around corners where a rush could occur around. swat team rushes round, first guy loses his head!...sorry i'm kinda grabbing at possibilities here.

[BoB-]

You can cut up chicken wire, then bend the crosses to the correct shape, and harden them by heating them red hot with a propane torch, then dropping them in motor oil.

Using an angle grinder to cut up the chicken wire, touching there heads to bench grinder, then harneding them, you can make 500-1000 daily.

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Teamwork is essential.
It lets you blame someone else.

[nbk2000]

http://server3001.freeyellow.com/nbk2000/Caltrop.jpg

Sorry for the crappy quality, I don't have my scanner installed at the moment.

Hmmm...chicken wire. I'd assume there's a much stronger guage fencing available that's similar? Like for horses or such. Good idea though if the wire is thick enough.

Concrete mesh should work. Good ideas.

Barbed wire would work too, but you'd have to find the military type that has 2" long barbs. The type available through ag stores is too small to penetrate Jack Boots, ya know? ;)

But that might work in the right place, like at beaches, public pools, and other places where people aren't wearing shoes, like third world coutries.

It'd also work against bicycles, so you could close down those annoying yuppie bike trails.

While the plaster on my design will get crushed, the nail would impale a car tire. But nails don't really work all that great against tires anyways.

For that you need hollow tubes.

If I had hollow tubing, I'd cast it in with a nail in the center. The nail fills up the tube, giving it strength to penetrate the tire, which crushes the plaster, freeing the nail to be pushed out/thrown clear of the tubing, allowing the air to escape rapidly.

Kingspaz, what are trainers?

The idea is to have a box or bag of caltrops, maybe mixed in with oil?, for tossing behind you to slow up persuing piggies.

The traditional four pointed star needs to be BIG to work against tires, which makes it too large to carry a significant amount on your person. These are also too large to be likely to be stepped on.

Smaller ones that you can carry with you are too small to penetrate car tires.

How thick is car tire rubber anyways? 1/2" or 1"?

Cheese wire? That sort of thing works great against bikers, but against people running or walking, it's just a cut. Beheading needs more speed than feet can create.


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"I have begun evil, I shall end evil. That is the end that awaits me."

Go here (http://briefcase.yahoo.com/nbk2ooo) to download the NBK2000 files and videos.

[CragHack]

caltrips are good if you do not have time to set up the surrounding area. If you know someone is coming and have a few moments to prepare (that is all it takes) i suggest this. Take duct tape (god i love this stuffhttp://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/smile.gif) and push nails up through the sticky side so when you stick the tape to something the nale points upwards. To reinforce it, place a couple of strips of duct tape on top of each other so the nail penetrates like 3 or 4 layers of the tape. But one layer will suffice.

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"If you must, do it with intelligent people, at least they know how to talk to the cops."

[Zach]

Dont bash bike riders. its the only way I am able to get anywhere. some assholes that dont know how to obey laws meant to keep them safe deserve to be taken out, but the majority of the serious bikers respect you more than you think. laf. you silly bear, im not a yuppie!
but on topic, american tires (dont know of any differences world wide) are around a half an inch thick. sounds like cake, i know, just a half inch of rubber. however... most tires are steel-belted with lots of wire in the rubber when formed. (you knew this NBK!) so make sure your tire puncturing things are strong enough... the police road spike strips are aluminum(!) tubes remote controlled to flip up and down.
one could also weld "teeth" of steel onto a steel bar, lets say three teeth facing outwards from the middle, every inch or so. when dropped, they would sort of roll under tires and such... if you can get them to roll straight. i can ask my half bro to see some of the stuff they use, hes a Sherrif deputy. what also works well is putting those caltrops in an aluminum can or something that a cop wouldnt think twice about running over... chinese food container, ect. probably not effective during a chase, but to sabotage oinkers.(not that i'd know anyway)


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Z

[This message has been edited by Zach (edited 11-28-2001).]

[Anthony]

Something worth considering is how can you protect yourself against other people using similar vehicle tyre deflating devices?

I'm thinking of that puncture plugging compound that you squirt into your tyres through the fill valve (it's a goo full of fibers). No coubt it works against solid things that are left stuck in the tyre, but what about cop stingers where the puncturing impliment doesn't stay in the tyre? What about a hollow tube that does stay in the tyre?

[nbk2000]

The green stuff is called GOOP or SLIME, depending on the retailer. We used it all the time at the repair shop I was at. It works fine for sealing rims and minor punctures like thorns, but a nail hole (no nail) or hollow tube, it wouldn't do jack shit to stop the air leaking out.

As for defenses, I've thought of making "brooms" that are made of the steel bristles used by street sweeping machines. These would stow up inside of the wheel wells, and be dropped down when needed.

The idea is that the steel bristles will drag against the ground and sweep away any spikes or caltrops that may be in the way.

Another might be a rubber roller that would take the spikes instead of the tire.

I'd imagine a combination of roller/broom, in addition to run-flat tires and possibly split tires, would make you virtually immune to spikes.

The foam pad idea has the advantage of speed, but it'd be too easy to lift it up out of the way, unless you made it adhesive. And then you have the problem of carrying around a big roll of foam. And what if the hallway is too wide?

I like the strip 'o nails. I've seen steel lath that's about 1/2" wide with holes every 1/2" or less. If small nails were in every other hole, and the back had a peelable adhesive strip, then you'd have something there.

You could peel off a strip and wind it around a pole to keep people from climbing it, or around a window frame to keep people out. A strip on every step of a stairway would make for slow going. Ladder rungs, handrails, tops of walls, etc.

BTW, one of my room mates had a guest over, and so I used the opprotunity to test out one of my caltrops. NO nail, just to see what would happen to the base when driven over.

As expected, the plaster squashed to pieces. But this is a good thing since that means it will break, releasing any penetrator you may have embedded in it.

There are chemicals known as catalytic depolymerizers that, in minutes quantities (couple of mLs) cause the rubber in the tire to devulcanize and litterally disintegrate to pieces within a few minutes.

Idea is to have the hollow tube filled with a small amount of this depolymerizer and sealed. When the caltrop is driven over, the nail punches through the seal, then through the tire, injecting the chemical inside.

Within a couple of minutes, the tire falls apart, leaving the person driving on rims.

I could also imagine making the caltrops like mine, only using AP putty instead of plaster, and inverting the nail into a hollow tube with a shotgun primer at the base.

When driven upon, nail impales primer, exploding AP putty, thus blowing major sized hole in tire, instantly deflating it.

But that would deviate from the idea of a non-explosive obstacle weapon.

Remeber, anything used needs to be free or damn near so since you'll be needing it in large quantities, stored for long periods of time, deployable in a moment and slow to recover to delay penetration.

For a quick road barrier, ala "HEAT", you could take steel piping, drill holes every inch or so, alternating the holes 120 degree each, and then welding large spike nails in the holes.

These sections would be several feet long and attached by short (couple of inches) lengths of heavy chain, with longer sections of chain at each end to allow chaining to lamp posts or such.

There'd be enough sections to allow a person to cover the entire width of a street and both sidewalks.

The whole assembly could fit in a large tote box and be deployed in a a minute or two. Best used when you have an escape route already prepared and wish to delay piggie persuit, not when they're already on your ass.

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"I have begun evil, I shall end evil. That is the end that awaits me."

Go here (http://briefcase.yahoo.com/nbk2ooo) to download the NBK2000 files and videos.

[kingspaz]

nbk, about 'trainers' i forgot most people here are from the US. trainers = sneakers (you do use that word still?)

i think they could make quite an obstacle if scattered around a hallway. hhmmm...maybe tying all the laces together would also form a sort of net across the ground ready to trap unsuspecting feet.

aaahhh about defense against such things. if you have the money why not buy a car that can survive punctures and still be quite drivable?

http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/kingspaz/images/037.gif

that'll cost a bit but its strong as fuck and can run on flats for 30miles or something.



[This message has been edited by kingspaz (edited 11-29-2001).]

[BaDSeeD]

Whats up guys. I've been away for a long time here. But I stopped in for a quick look.

NBK I'm not sure if this fits your 'non-explosive' requirement, but a couple beer bottle molotov's would sure as hell do the trick to stop someone from chasing you. And could also be used offensively. A pull ignightor on it, just use some saftey matches around the fuse with the ignitor strip in between them would be an easy light, especially while running. If you were running through an alley or between houses, fences, etc... it'd sure as hell stop someone from pursuing you on foot. If the bottle were more fragile too, you wouldnt even have to slow down to break it, just toss it over your shoulder.

As for vehicles, they probably wouldnt do much against a speeding car, but consider that most people wouldnt have the balls to drive through it anyhow. They might try to swerve around it (crashing hopefully) or just stop totally instead of going through. Even if none of that happens, it'd be a hell of a distraction, might be enough to let you round that next corner without them seeing which way you went. But it'd sure buy you a little time.



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BaDSeeD
Knowledge is the true power, ignorance will bring your demise.

[phyrelord]

I find that if you hang sinkers from a fishing line about every two feet, then suspend that from a tree you cause a nice wreck and a cracked up window. The caltrops remind me of something i did when i was younger. We were building our garage and we had some left over concrete so i filled a few beercans halfway poked a nail through the bottom and left them on the road. The local drunks who get a kick out of hitting cans didn't like me much that day. To remove small metal objects from the path of your tires i would use small brushes like you said but i would magnetize them by hooking them up to your car battery. Would it be possible to lay a wire across the roadway and create an electric pulse that would fry car computers like those things the police use to disable fleeing cars

[PYRO500]

Yes, that is possible, but not practical one way I can think of doing that would be to have a large coil of wire and when it is under the car dump a big capacitor bank on it, that would induce currents in the electrical system of a car messing it up, it would not be able to be portable though.

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visit my web page at:
[URL=http://www.geocities.com/pyro2000us/]

[nbk2000]

Magnetics can't be relied on since some spikes are made of aluminum.

Electronic shock is complicated and requires pre-placement. That's why it's not in general police use.

Also, isn't a HUMVEE a tad might too conspicuous for criminal useage?

Fire is a barrier, but it can spread, which may not be a good thing. It eventually burns out, which is also bad if you want lasting protection. And the risk of setting yourself on fire is bad too.

I've read of bead curtains with fish hooks in them being strung in doorways to snag people. Replace the beads with super thin kevlar fishing line and you've got a nasty surprise.

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"I have begun evil, I shall end evil. That is the end that awaits me."

Go here (http://briefcase.yahoo.com/nbk2ooo) to download the NBK2000 files and videos.

[Fingerless]

You guys should consider having snares strung out for foot chases. When running, people will follow a predictable path-the easiest and shortest one possible, generally. This can be used to your advantage by having pre-strung snares out. Snares are used by trappers, and are thin steel cable from 1/16" at the thin end to thicker 1/8" snares used for wolves. The snare has a loop on it and closes very quickly and tightly when something goes through it. I was walking at a leisurely pace through the woods once and all of a sudden it felt like someone jerked my foot out from underneath of me and I fell flat on my face-my foot was in a snare. I got out quickly, but it would slow someone down immensely. A 1/16 snare with a cam type of lock on it (Very hard to get off) staked to a 3 foot piece of rebar driven into the ground and propped up by a piece of 9 gauge wire to the desired height would be very useful in stopping a pig in the correct conditions. Plus, they are only a buck or so a piece. I tested this out, and it worked beautifully. When people come home from work from a meat packing plant, they all follow the same path. They have the grass wore down to mud on the path that they all walk to the plant on every day. Well, I hung up one of my snares on the trail (The snare was dyed black and the stake was driven clear into the ground-not very easily seen unless you have a flashlight AND are looking for it) the first victim that came on the trail was snared, and fell flat on his face. He wasn't even walking that fast. He dropped his cooler and his lunch spilled out. It took him a few minutes to figure out what he was in and how to get the hell out. So, snares should be useful in some situations. If you want to look at snares search for "The Snare Shop."

[mrloud]

I like the idea of bead curtains with fish hooks in them. They could be rigged so that they are rolled up above the door. They would drop down when you tug on a string after running through. A weight on the bottom of the strings could make sure they cant just be brushed aside. Ideally they would be electronically released. Either by you with a remote control or by a burglar alarm system.

[phyrelord]

I was reading about things called "castrators" they consisted of a spike that was drove in the ground, and essentially a barrel with a pressure plate attached. When the enemy's personnel or vehicles would travel over them the pressure plate would push on a cartridge and cause it to go off. this would put holes in tires and cause quite a nasty wound as you can tell by it's nickname. This is the link http://pacificcoast.net/~dlynn/boobytraps/no8-2.JPG

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Winseln Sie für mich

[Agent Blak]

You could scatter marbles or other hard round balls behind you.
there is always pre-place net, tripwires, etc.
If you were to have a cammera flash circut hooked up to a flash bulb you can burn the rods(destroy night vision paritally) off in there eyes. just make sure you do get yourself.

[Cricket]

To be less suspicious (depending on location), you could have a snow scraper on the front of your vehicle to scrape away the stop sticks. And in a JC Whitney magazine I once saw a large magnet that you hung from the front of your vehicle and it would pick up the screws and nails and stuff. Expensive though, I think for the best it was $200 and the cheapest was about $70 USD. Oh yea, and if you could steal a city vehicle, then get the ones that can ride on the train tracks http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/smile.gif.

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"You will not be taught the knowledge you seek, you must teach yourself." - Megalomania

[PYRO500]

then they just stop all trains on that track!

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visit my web page at:
[URL=http://www.geocities.com/pyro2000us/]

[nbk2000]

Being able to ride the rails would be an advantage at times.

You'd be able to travel through largely uninhabited rural areas with no one around to see your face and call the cops if you've been on AMW.

If the pigs set up road blocks, it's not going to include the rails. They'll be watching the train stations, but not the rails themselves.

You can easily go more than a hundred miles on hour on rails with no worrys about other traffic. And rails provide a straight line path to some places that would take many more miles via road. The time savings could come in handy if you need an alibie.

There's no way I could have been at the the victims house 30 miles away, killed them, and been back here in time for my birthday party with 50 witnesses!

Why, that's 50 miles by road! Even going a hundred miles an hour, it'd take me an hour round trip, not including the time it would take to murder someone.

I was only gone (with no witnesses) for 40 minutes!

Now, by rail, going a hundred, it only took you 40 minutes since you got there in a straight line. At night, no lights on (who needs them on rails), no witnesses to the car, equals unknown killer.

Problem with rails is (obviously) trains use them too. And if you're going a hundred MPH while an oncoming train is going 50 MPH, that equals a big mess....for you.

You'd either need to have a schedule, or a straight line of sight for miles so you'd have time to see an approaching train, stop, and get off the rails before it hits you.

This could prove difficult if you're in a tunnel, mountain or forest area, or on a raised track with no shoulders.

Also, you're going to need split axle wheels. Otherwise you'll show up on the railroad controllers boards as a phantom train. That'd be investigated.

And don't forget the crossing guards will go down if you don't have a split axle. That means stopping traffic which means witnesses seeing a passing car.

If you do have a split axle, that means that traffic WON'T know you're coming, so you'll have to know where they are and cross when no traffic is around to see you.

I read in a National Geographic about some people who biked across India on bicycles modified to ride the rails.

Cheap means of covert travel.

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"I have begun evil, I shall end evil. That is the end that awaits me."

Go here (http://briefcase.yahoo.com/nbk2k) to download the NBK2000 files and videos.

[HalfDark]

Caltrops are good but they do take some time to make them strong enough to stand up to a car.............

The way i use to do it was get some nails and push them through tissue paper and then lie them on the road!!!!!

I used tissue paper cos it falls of the wheel and the driver just thinks that he has gone over a nail.
Things like carpet just get stuck to the wheel........

Well thats the way i used to do it.........bearing in mind that i was bout 10 when i did this..........5 years ago!!!!

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You may be able to "see" the light half of the world......but you have to "know" the dark of it!!!

[DarkAngel]

NBK:I don't know exactly how the rail system works but i do know that if a train is riding on the rails here it drives above a certain spot (Atleast before every level crossing)that's on 1 part of the rail.
You can easely find this spot because there is always a small electrical box with wires coming out next to it.
When it drives above it the train wheel is making a closed circuit that will turn on the bell's and closes the barriers.
So atleast here a split axle is useless.

A few years ago i dreamed to place a cupper coin on that certain spot and with doing this you will let the system think that there is a train coming which will close the barriers,let the bells ring and will turn all traffic lights on red.
This could also be handy only in other situations.
(i told this earlyer but if anyone want's to hear the whole story again say it and i will post it again)

I made 2 pictures of it,
As you see there are electrical wires coming out of the box that go to a diverent part of the rail. http://entersection1.virtualave.net/Pictures/Trainstop1.jpg


On the rail there is a small line that separates the rail parts.
A conductor(Cupper coin,cupper wire would probably be even better) needs to be placed on the line so it closes the circuit.
http://entersection1.virtualave.net/Pictures/Trainstop2.jpg


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ÐarkAngel

For explosives and stuff go to Section1 http://www.section1.f2s.com And http://run.to/section1 (http://www.run.to/section1)
sendtosection1@hotmail.com

[This message has been edited by DarkAngel (edited December 17, 2001).]

[Machiavelli]

What does your system do when it starts to rain?
In Germany it's designed that at regular intervalls on the tracks there are sensors that count how many axes are passing by, I don't know if they measure conductivity or if they do it magnetically, and then the counts for different intervalls are evaluted by the system and it therefore determines whether or not to switch on the stop signals at that track intervall.

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I'm a hero! I free innocent jewels and valuables who've been imprisoned in creepy dark vaults and safes.

[DarkAngel]

When it's raining nothing happends.
But there must be more than the thing i explained because if you put the coin on the line (You see sparks coming of) the barriers start to close and the bells are ringing but as soon as you remove the coin it all stops.
(in order to get it working right you need to move the coin with your feet on it till it get's welded on the rail)
Maybe because a train have lot's of wheels and moves very fast every wheel works as a conductor and when the last wheel passes it just stops.
But still some barriers at certain stations stay closed while people are going in and out of the train.

------------------
ÐarkAngel

For explosives and stuff go to Section1 http://www.section1.f2s.com And http://run.to/section1 (http://www.run.to/section1)
sendtosection1@hotmail.com

[Ctrl_C]

thats not the way a rail system works. my dad designed some of these things years ago. they work like nbk said basically. the gate supplies a positive current to one rail and a negative to the other, and the train completes the circut through its wheels/axels as it nears. The resistance in the track eventually becomes enough as the train moves away to trigger a sequence to open the gates.

NBK, what exactly do you mean by "split axel"? If the axels are in contact in any way (through the differential, frame, suspension) etc...it will set off the gates.

as for quick countermeasures, how about thin piano wire across a doorway? place it about 5'6" from the floor and if anyone runs into it, sliced neck. piano wire is SHARP!

[Noct]

For those of you that have PMJB2, there is a section on caltrops and some similar designs, though they are probably basic and you already know of them. It is in the first section of the book, I don't know the exact page.

All of the ideas in this thread are great, if I am ever in a situation that requires... impairing of movement... I will remember these!

As for the piano wire idea, at 5'6", what about those too short to get caught on it? It's a slight change, but how about wires like this...

-
.-
..-
...-

(dots are filler, dashes are the wire)

About eight inches apart, this is sure to get the face or neck.

Also, if you are running from someone while on foot, how about broken glass? It's quick, simple, and easy. Not nearly as effective as other methods, but it's about improvisation, isn't it? It's simple, but sometimes the simplest things are overlooked.

Here is something else from the PMJB2.... If you have a thin board, or something similar, strong enough to hold nails in place but thin enough to not be seen under certain circumstances, you can stick nails through it, but the kicker is that the nails have barbs in them so that they stick in the shoe/foot, and the person stuck in this trap has to either take the board with them, break it, take off the shoe, or rip out the nail. Whatever happens, they will be slowed.

As for the fish hooks in beads idea, it would be very easy to apply it as a security device. Attach them to your front/back door/windows/whatever where there might be a break-in. Whenever you dont want them there, just hang them on something to the side of the entrance... just an idea if you haven't thought of it already.

[atropine]

why bother making them when you can buy them "a dime a dozen"? <a href="http://fastknife.com/cal10in.html" target="_blank">caltrops from fastknife</a>.
This sites got loads of things pretty cheap

[nbk2000]

Uh....I've seen these things.....and they're only big enough to go through a ninja tabi sock.

Car tires and JBT boots wouldn't be affected in the least.

Also, at 25¢ each, they're not as cheap as cutting up a chain link fence or barbed wiring.

[ January 04, 2002: Message edited by: nbk2000 ]</p>

[atropine]

i've bought a few in the past and they do work. Against a car tyre they're pretty useless but certainly are going to be better than glass. If you are thinking of stopping a car then a stinger like device would be more apt. Just a lump of polystyrene with a few needle fashioned pipes jammed in left right and center. Or just get a gun :0)

[Azazel]

it would be funny to hook up a car with caltrops at the ready so that at the click of a button caltrops are dropped onto the road from a moving car, possibly puncturing tyres of any car following

food for thought.

I have made caltrops before.... i made only 3 of them just because i had time to kill. i used fairly thick nails (4) and cut the flat tops off them. i then welded 3 of the non sharp ends together in the one spot so that a 3 sided cone shape thingy was formed. you must work out the angles at which to do this i cant quite remember but it must be able to land on any 3 of the 4 spikes and have a nail facing directly up. the 4th nail i welded facing upwards... simple...

very nasty to horses and cattle. dont get any ideas the poor animals never did anything bad to you i would imagine.

:( :rolleyes:

[Jack Ruby]

"it would be funny to hook up a car with caltrops at the ready so that at the click of a button caltrops are dropped onto the road from a moving car, possibly puncturing tyres of any car following"

So how many Batman/007 shows did you watch as a child?

I was looking at a book on some survivalist website and it is on Arming your car with stuff like you mentioned(Caltrops) aswell as other neat devices.

Has anyone else heard of this book? I think it is called like "Wheels of Rage" or "Rolling Thunder". You know something wierd like that. Does anyone have it?

[nbk2000]

It's "Rolling Thunder". And as neat as it sounds, I also think it'd likely be something rather "k3wlish".

I think that, during a hot persuit, that a LOT of smoke would be better than spikes. It's instant, controlable, disappears in a few minutes, cheap, no forensics, immune to any reasobable countermeasures (unlike run-flat tires), and has other advantages as well.

[Jack Ruby]

NBK2000,

I think it is very possible that it could be a "K3wlIsH" Affair. On the other hand I don't want to dismiss it a rubish until I have read it.

For example the "Magicians' Arsenel" sound like another coock book to me but I haven't read it and am still looking for a copy so I can proove myself right or wrong.

In the write up on the book it speaks of Smoke Sceens, Caltrops, Oil Slicks, Exploding Mines, and other things that are less deffense oriented.

for the smoke if home made isn't you style(Why I don't know) Superior Signal makes a fine product(40,000 feet^3 in 3 min). Puts out thick rich Light Grey Smoke(Speaks of Zinc Chloride) and it also isn't very harsh to breath in(no coughing etc. like with sulfur formulas).

[nbk2000]

40,000 CFT isn't shit when you're talking about deploying it from a moving car.

If you're traveling at 60MPH, that's a mile a minute. 40,000 / (5,280 feet x 3 minutes) = 2.5 CFT of smoke for the 3 miles. That's not enough.

Now if you had 10 of them burning at once, then you'd have something. It's not just the volume, but how quickly it can generate it that is important. Acid smokes like FS (oleum/chlorosulfonic acid) or FM (Titanium tetrachloride) would be excellent for spraying in your wake. Especially in damp areas like britan or the valley (like I live in).

And, let's not forget, you're in a moving vehicle, leaving the smoke in your wake. So it doesn't matter if it's irritating or choking. As a matter of fact, you'd want it like that so the pursuer is even more deterred. It would be good to add in some tear gas to the smoke to further complicate their pursuit.

I actually saw "Magicians Arsenal" at a gun show. For a couple of minutes I was looking through it and it looked like an OK book. Though the things seemed more suited as distractions or diversions to allow you to draw out a more lethal weapon, than as weapons themselves.

[Machiavelli]

Anyone experimented with vaporising coloring agents for colored smoke?I'm wondering whether these would condense on and stick to glass surfaces. After all, if the windshield is covered with a sticky non-transparent layer, the pursuit car is out of the race.

[Jack Ruby]

It is all about distraction and averting their attention to something else.

If you lose sight of me for 3 seconds, it is very likely that a)you will be dead, or b) you will be unable to find my trail not find me.
In a very short time you can pull out somthing from your bag of tricks and allowing you to end the persuit(Victory through Superior firepower; RTPB).

NBK2000,
so did you buy the book?

Mach,
wouldn't that be called Paint?

[A-BOMB]

What about a smoke cloud with a mist of that tire discintegrater fluid mixed in? I if the smoke is coming out from your rear it can't get on your tires or what about a 50 foot cone of flame flying out the back? Or why not that these bankrobbers tryed they stole a car with trunck access by folding down the back seat and made frame in there that held a huge amount of large roman candels and foutains, when the cops started to chase them one of them got in back and opened the truck and lit the fuses on some of the fireworks, that caused two cars to be out when there winshields became chared black and the plastic grills on the cars caught on fire me like this idea.
But instead of fireworks a flamethroughter because if the first cop car is no fire of thoser might just stop to help pig car one or might just get smart and stay back a bit and let the chopper follow you instead this is where the stinger missile that you bought from the Taliban comes in <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

[nbk2000]

No, I didn't buy it. I had other things I had to get at the time.

I think an oil based paint would work, if you could either get a stream of it blasted onto the pursuers windshield, or if you sprayed a fine mist of it for a long period of time, which would eventually build up and obscure them.

Whatever is used would have to resist washing off with the windshield fluid and wipers.

Though if concentrated HF acid was added, it would rapidly frost the glass into obscurity.

And you don't neccesarily have to take out the pursuers directly. If you are on a narrow road and wreck a civilian you've passed by, then that'll block the pursuit.

Tactics comes into play as well. You would be wasting your time to use a smoke screen on a flat desert where the pursuer can simply drive to the side of it. Or in extremly windy/rainy weather.

But using it in a tunnel, highly curved roads, crowded streets, or anywhere else where the reduced visibility presents a high probability of a fatal wreck is where you'd want to use it.

Dropping a cloud of smoke at an intersection would prevent them (hopefully) from seeing which way you went. And it doesn't have to be pea-soup thick either. If you can reduce their visibilty to less than 50 feet, than anything faster than 20MPH is VERY dangerous.

I've been thinking (as I always do :) ) about installing a permanent spike strip that would look like a simple strip of steel across the road that we've all seen.

This is normally flat and driven over, but, when activated, a small explosive charge that runs the length of it causes the steel to break along the pre-etched stress fractures, and force the now jagged edges up into the air, where the passing vehicles tires will be shredded.

This would have the advantage of being totally inoccent looking to anyone when it's not deployed, fuck-proof, permanent, and (once activated) unable to be de-activated with anything less than power tools.

Don't forget too, that just because you took out the guys following you, that doesn't prevent them from radioing ahead. You also have to protect your flanks, and prevent their blocking your path.

What would really throw them for a loop would be if you go multi-dimensional on them.

Fly.

Ultralights cost less than a decent used car. You can go in any direction, without regard to roads, bridges, and all the other usual impediments to escape.

Your maximum altitude can be more than 14,000 feet (with special equipment), and over a hundred MPH if you illegally modify <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> it. Throw in NVD goggles, wood construction (non-radar), and proper timing of the crime, and you're GONE!

Though this is more of an "evade the manhunt" rather than "evade the hot pursuit" technique. This may have already been done on several high profile manhunts where some hardcore survivalists where being hunted in arizona, new mexico, and such. Vast distances, few roads, massive manpower looking for them, and they just...disappeared.

They were probably flying right over the piggies heads with the engine cut off in the darkness. :D

[johnn 99]

Hello, everyone.nice to meet you. Being a James Bond fan for many years. I have experamented with several similar ideas. As far as caltrops go, Did you know that you can also stamp them out of flat steel? you just stamp 2 identical pieces in the shape of a triangle with a notch cut running from one point into the center of the triangle. So that 2 of them will snap together notch to notch. THese can be mass produced easily to any size required in large batches and as they are a blade instead of a spike, they give a nice slashing effect. I also find that at moderately high speeds a nice bucket of ball bearings chucked out of the window will really inconveniance the car behind you. (especially at night). On the subject of smoke screens, a fire extinguisher activated by a bicycle brake cable works brilliantly. For making people bust their ass in the hallway, silicone spray lubricant is about the best thing ever! GOOD LUCK!

[Synthetically Hopeful]

Some ideas Ill throw to the sharks: a cutting charge around a power pole along with another charge high on the pole to ensure it falling quickly, or just the lines themselves may be enough. a rig using a remote controller from a toy car would work I think.
using a 4 wheel drive truck to just power up an embankment.
in the idea of using air, would water be too risky (helicopter) if so scuba gear, if not a fast boat. if at the coast, ride to another contry (it would take a large boat to haul the loot needed to make that worthwhile, smithsonian(SP?) perhapse :D

(edit) Drainage pipes. they are common under roads in rural areas, 1.5-2 ft wide, cement or metal.(only seen a few in plasic) a resonably large charge could cause collapse or more (Ive never tried). they usualy are not that sound (structualy) but you can hide in them in a pinch

<small>[ April 03, 2002, 03:26 AM: Message edited by: Synthetically Hopeful ]</small>

[SATANIC]

I have recently aquired

"Australian army
manual of land warfare

part two
engineer training
volume two pamphlet No. 2

Obstacles and field defences (all Corps)"

It details the use, manufacture, and improvisation of caltrops :D

"Caltrops.
605. A caltrop is a metal object having a number of spikes, one of which will always land uppermost when the caltrop is throuwn onto the ground. There is no set design for caltrops, but three types can be easily made in a unit workshop, and which will puncture the tyres of the heaviest trucks. If caltrops are linked together like a chain, a simple and effective roadblock can be quickly set up."

[edit= i can't scan anything until my computer stops fucking around, and i get my scanner wprking again.]

Later, i'll scan in the entire section, including pics, to .PDF

<small>[ April 03, 2002, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: SATANIC ]</small>

[Azazel]

cool that would be handy

an idea just sprang to mind...how about a series of extremely bright lights {like the highbeams of a car] set up to shine thru the back windows of your car... 6 or 8 of these babies would blind anyone behind you if turned on. If 2 of these things are enough to make your eyes hurt at a close distance imagine what 8 of them would do !.. better yet why not make a mirrored box and put about 50 of these babies [the globes] into it... hell knows where you would get the power from but hey...

lol i can just imagine it now... this may even cause the dumb arse following you to swirve to get out of the light and get clear sight either causing them to crash into an oncoming vehicle or stop their car...

:D :cool: :rolleyes:

[nbk2000]

No reason why you can't use one of those 1,000,000 CP spotlights that plug into the cars cigarette lighter jack.

Just bolt it to the rear window with the switch turned on, and just plug it into the lighter jack when you need to use it.

I'd think the best way to use it would be to flash them with it, rather than have it constantly on. This prevents them from tracking you by the light itself.

Naturally, this works best at night. Throw in the ability to turn off all your cars lights and drive using IR or NVD, and you'd be nearly impossible to follow at night.

[johnn 99]

RTC. Why do you say that my post is not relevant? And if you feel that way, why would you paraphrase my suggestion ? Also why would you use square plates, this would defeat the whole concept of caltrops. Which are meant to land with a point up. Yours would not really have a point, and would present the blade at a 45 deg. angle to the road, making them ineffective for stabbing or cutting?

[RTC]

its just that I think I am better than you because I like to take it up the ass.

<small>[ November 13, 2002, 03:04 AM: Message edited by: angelo ]</small>

[Bad Company]

I saw in an earlier post about using marbles or bearings to slow down or stop a foot persuit.What if one was to mix broken glass or some other sharp or pointy objects in the mix.Bad guy slips on round ojects and cuts the hell out of his hands trying to get back up.Not to mention his back when he first goes down.Just an idea for thought.

[nbk2000]

I had opprotunity to test out the ball bearing idea earlier.

I used 1/4" steel slingshot ammo on a vinyl tiled floor and wore sneakers.

I dumped out 200 bearings on a 10 square foot section of the floor. Most of them rolled, within a few seconds, to a low spot in the flooring.

I proceeded to step on the bearings, moving my foot around to gradually reduce the number of bearings under my foot till I no longer had a sufficiently "slippery" effect while supporting my full weight on that foot.

I then counted how many bearing there was and added a few more till I got the required slipping effect.

From my test, it would seem that a minimum of ten (10) 1/4" bearings, equally spaced, are required to make a size 12 (ladies... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> ) foot lose traction.

Given that it takes 3 of my feet (I only have two! :p ) to cover one square foot, that would mean at least 30 bearings per square foot.

I repeated it with 3/8" bearings. These only required 5 bearings to achive the same effect. However, giving the volume of the five bearings is as much as 30 of the smaller bearings, I'd go with the smaller bearings as having better dispersion effect.

My findings:

Bearings have to be used on a hard surface (concrete or stone) as vinyl or wood will dent to some degree, thus reducing effectiveness.

The floor must be as flat and level as possible. Any slope or low spots will cause the bearings to "puddle" or "drain away", thus eliminating their effectiveness.

The bearings must be used in great numbers to ensure a sufficient number under foot.

The smoother and harder the victims shoes are, and the smaller their feet, the fewer bearings are required.

Larger bearings provide for easier slippage, but are more expensive and provide less coverage for the same number.

In conclusion:

Bearings are unsuitable except for prepared defense in a home or similarly restricted setting. They do have the advantage of being reusable and quickly recovered with a magnet.

Oil, silicone grease, or slime would be better since even dispersion is automatic with liquids. An enhancement would be to use them on a very smooth and slightly sloping surface. This ensures both flow, and slippage since it's impossible to stand on a slippery slope.

The disadvantage is the greatly complicated cleanup required.

[nbk2000]

I tried out RTC's idea using cardboard. While it would present a hazard, the points are at a 45 degree angle to the ground, thus limiting their effectiveness.

So, I tried using an equilateral triangle (equal length on all three sides) instead of a square. This works perfectly! :)

<CENTER> <img src="http://server3001.freeyellow.com/nbk2000/Caltrop.gif" alt="" /></CENTER>

The grey triangle is the vertical impaling one. The white line is the second triangle that is perpendicular to the first one. The red arrow indicates how how deeply to cut the notch into the two triangles.

The neat thing about the triangles is that they're readily available at hardware stores as "Glaziers Points". TheSE are steel triangles that are used to keep glass panes in wood window frames. The points are VERY sharp out of the package, and are rather cheap.

All a person needs is a thin cut-off wheel to cut the slots into them, and a welder or epoxy to keep them together. No tedious or expensive stamping of sheet metal required.

I don't know the largest size that points are available in, but they're at least large enough to viciously cut a bare foot. That alone could be used at beaches and other places where people (foolishly <img src="http://assaultweb.net/ubb/icons/icon18.gif" alt="" />) walk bare foot.

I think a minimum height of an inch would be needed to present a sufficent hazard to car tires and JBTs (Jack Booted Thugs). Two inches would work against truck tires.

For deflating tires, it'd be a good idea to cut vent slots into the points so the air can more rapidly escape.

When using caltrops for AV purposes, you'll also want to mix in AP caltrops as well to impede clearance. Just like any other barrier, it can be cleared rapidly if the enemy is free to move about.

And an obstacles effectiveness is much greater if it's covered by fire. They can't very well clear the caltrops away if their feet are being impaled and they're taking casualties from your fire, now can they? :)

In use as an PDM, I would mix up the caltrops with staggered delay flash-bang submunitions. Such a device is demonstrated on the FTP. Look for "Flash-Bang_Demo-NBK2000.rm" on the FTP.

This was just ONE unconverted firework. The converted ones are at least 4 times more dramatic, and then you'd have MULTIPLE explosions from the staggered time delays going off.

Between the distraction of the explosions and flying sparks, they not going to be watching where they're stepping. :D

An idea I have would be to connect the two triangles in a "bow-tie" configuration with a piece of <a href="http://www.sma-inc.com/information.html" target="_blank">Nitinol</a>.

The two triangles lay flat against each other inside a PDM (allowing greeater packing density) until the heat of the burster causes the nitinol to phase-shift to it's twisted state. This is with the triangles at a 90 degree angle to each other, meaning always point up.

The nitinol would rapidly cool down within a few seconds, reverting to the safe folded state.

During the few seconds when they're hazardous is when the submunitions are exploding. This would cause the enemy to move about, stepping and falling on the caltrops.

After a few seconds, they safe themselves, allowing you to move safely about while the enemy is now injured.

Ah, the wonders of science! :p

You could aslo use them to prevent a target from escaping from an ambush.

Allow the piggies to enter your home, dispense the caltrops in the entrace and hallways, then initate your attack. They'll be forced to either stand and die, or run. When they run, they're going to get fucked off! And while they're gimping about, they're easy pickings.

Use short pipe projectors to throw AV/AP caltrops among the piggies in the streets. Then start fragging them.

<small>[ April 08, 2002, 08:17 PM: Message edited by: nbk2000 ]</small>

[johnn 99]

I like the glazers point idea, NBK. I never thought of that. We always stamped our own. Also, Thank you for the graffics, I was having a hard time describing this in my post. For mass production, clamping a bunch together, and using a hacksaw might be quicker?

<small>[ April 08, 2002, 08:14 PM: Message edited by: johnn 99 ]</small>

[nbk2000]

Clamping a bunch together would help, but I'd think it much faster to use the cut-off wheel on the stack. The points would be difficult for the hacksaw blade to bite into unless you ground the point flat.

[nbk2000]

Pictures are worth a thousand words.

<img src="http://server3001.freeyellow.com/nbk2000/Caltrop_Cardboard_Disassembled.jpg" alt="" />

The triangular pieces with the slots cut.

<img src="http://server3001.freeyellow.com/nbk2000/Caltrop_Cardboard_Assembled.jpg" alt="" />

The assembled caltrop with the point sticking up.

[Azazel]

small note nbk about your design...
very very easy to make and if made properly and sharpened this will most deffinately be a good caltrop... for stopping vehicles...

Animals on the other hand maybe not... these caltrops may not actually pierce through an assailants shoe. that may be a problem. however if they are sharp enough to stick into the shoe while they run, they will most deffinately have to stop to take it out otherwise they will lose balance. if you want to damage the foot of the intended target it is neccesary to have fine needle shaped spikes rather than much larger s.a spikes

the caltrops u designed would be excellent fora automobiles... next topic should be underwater mines :D

[nbk2000]

Glaziers points are already razor sharp on the points. That's the beauty of them.

I'm confidant of their ability to penetrate a shoe. After all, they're hard steel, razor sharp, and quite pointy. While not as easily penetrating as a spike, it would be equal to stepping on the point of a knife. And that will quite readily penetrate a shoe or boot.

And, like you said, if it didn't, it'd still fuck off their ability to walk till they removed them, which would require stopping, and pulling on what's basically an embedded razor blade.

Now, if you threw this in with a liquid anti-traction agent like LBP, then you'd have some really nasty traps waiting for people to slip and impale themselves in.

And props go out to john99 for giving me the idea of the plates. <img src="http://www.roguesci.org/ubb/icons/icon14.gif" alt="" />

<small>[ April 09, 2002, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: nbk2000 ]</small>

[johnn 99]

I think you should reread the posts nbk, this was not his idea. It was mine. And I got the idea from a manual. Anyway, I have made and used these they work quite well against dismounted troops, They will even pierce the antispike plates on a pair of jungle boots if they are sharp enough. I had another Idea. For those pesky swat entry teams, how about a boobytrap/mine that sprays either. a nice explosive fuel air mixture in an enclased environment that also happens to be a general anisthetic should make them rethink a few of their entry tactics!

[nbk2000]

Found this design on a military site.

<img src="http://204.255.139.236/mcdweb/images/4nlc_catalog/200x200/30.gif" alt=" - " />

It's either a single piece that's stamped and folded, or two stamped pieces welded together

[darkdontay]

Here is some links to some sites about them that I found... Though I suspect it is in vain, that you have allready been to them all. Oh well but to try and help, then sit in a corner and wackoff.

<a href="http://www.flowerdew.org/object02.html" target="_blank">http://www.flowerdew.org/object02.html</a>
<img src="http://www.flowerdew.org/object02/turntable01.jpg" alt=" - " />

"WWII OSS Caltrop,"
for sale $50
<a href="http://www.adrax.com/watsons/g057.htm" target="_blank">http://www.adrax.com/watsons/g057.htm</a>
<img src="http://www.adrax.com/watsons/g057.jpg" alt=" - " />

"A VERY INTERESTING Caltrop found in a German bunker in Demyansk"
<a href="http://www.ostfront.com/publications_items.html" target="_blank">http://www.ostfront.com/publications_items.html</a>
<img src="http://www.ostfront.com/images_german/spike2.jpg" alt=" - " />
^Nice site I think you might enjoy it NBK^

Britsh/Can Version
<a href="http://www.britarch.ac.uk/projects/dob/crom3a.html" target="_blank">http://www.britarch.ac.uk/projects/dob/crom3a.html</a>
<img src="http://www.britarch.ac.uk/projects/dob/caltrop.jpg" alt=" - " />

The CIA's little thing about them
<a href="http://www.cia.gov/cia/information/artifacts/caltrop.htm" target="_blank">http://www.cia.gov/cia/information/artifacts/caltrop.htm</a>
<img src="http://www.cia.gov/cia/information/artifacts/caltrop.jpg" alt=" - " />
^*** Link to the CIA's WEBSITE, just a warning for thoughs paranoid*^

Here is a realy old one. Listed as a Buried Treasure
<a href="http://www.iglou.com/btreasure/ref.html" target="_blank">http://www.iglou.com/btreasure/ref.html</a>
<img src="http://www.iglou.com/btreasure/caltrop.jpg" alt=" - " />

[1337bomber]

Here is the method I have always used. It works good on feet, although I am not sure about tires.

<a href="http://www.ninj.itgo.com/ghettoscience/caltrop.html" target="_blank">VoD's Method of Caltrop Production</a>

[80r15]

I dont know if anyone has told you this before in this post and youre smart enough to figure it out, but dont use your own hair in the making of these things if youre still going with the plaster thing. What i would do(correct me if im wrong), is use steel wool in the plaster to make it even more strong. Well that was just my two cents. And since this post was about impediments to movement, you could use Chemical weapons. They could be deployed on the ground as a liquid and allowed to evaporate, or possibly as a solid(never tried this), or I read in a book somewhere that its an idea to put chem weapons in small glass(or any other fragile material), and when stepped on, would release the chemical weap. You could also but some nails in the small balls so when the moron steps on it, he injects what ever chem weapon you chose into his foot, gets a nail stuck into his foot, and, well you guess the rest. THIS IS ONLY AN IDEA AND HAS NOT BEEN TRIED...YET. Another pro to this small glass ball idea is if you had a bunch of piggies chasing you, or other annoying pests for that matter, after releasing a couple CC's of VX into a room, its gonna be hard for the rest of the pigs to get through there......... as for previous suggestions about putting nails through various crap(insulation, duct tape), i dont see the effectiveness, because from what i interpreted, these would be used while fleeing somewhere. and unless you plan to do what ever it is that you do illegaly while carrying a huge role of insulation(and duct tape can only handle as many nails as you can fit on the outer edge, 1 strip of duct tape will take all the nails off), so i like my idea of small(anywhere from 1/2 inch to 5 inches) balls filled with similar-caltrop devices and a nerve gas of your choice......
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

<small>[ March 12, 2003, 07:34 PM: Message edited by: 80r15 ]</small>

[Arkangel]

thats a pretty neet idea in fact you could develop it quite nicely

what you need to do is have a tripwire controlled cannister of gas in the room (you know where the tripwire is, and jump over it as you're running :D ), which when the piggies run through it, releases a cloud of concentrated THC gas (C21H30O2 - sorry cant work subscript yet) into their faces, while a net is dropped onto them from above

obviously they struggle free of the net but not before the thc has done its evil work they then wander off disorientated and with the raging munchies which is where the reeeeeellly wicked part comes in...........

ricin impregnated m&m's :mad:

they scoff the lot as they are so hungry and a couple of days later he or she would have internal bleeding of the stomach and intestines that would lead to vomiting and bloody diarrhea. Eventually, the person’s liver, spleen, and kidneys might stop working, and the person could die he he he :mad:

what do you reckon 80

THIS IDEA HAS NOT BEEN TESTED EITHER, AT LEAST NOT IN ONE GO I'VE TESTED THE THC AND THE M&M'S BUT NOT WITH RICIN YET IT SEEMS TO WORK PRETTY WELL THOUGH ALL MY TEST SUBJECTS ATE ALL THE M&M'S I LEFT ON THE FLOOR OF MY APARTMENT IN FACT THEY ATE EVERYTHING IN MY HOUSE TOO

<small>[ March 12, 2003, 09:31 PM: Message edited by: Arkangel ]</small>

[80r15]

I like it. And I am not a newbie- I know organic chem. I like your idea but I think we should use my glass balls with VX and nails just for safety. Maybe after the piggies eat the M&M's AND BACON!!! they continue the hunt for us and then step on my little glass balls. Seriously though NBK2000, you should strongly consider making these. The only concern I would have is melting the glass and not damaging the VX, which is why I said use another brittle material also... maybe play-do, it always comes in handy...

[I_am_the_Black_one]

What about a taser hooked to a wire net or string (Great for keeping piggies out!!) Im leaning to wards a wire strund out like a piano wire so if they dont get cut up to bad they get fried!!
lol i am a sick sick depraved person

[NightStalker]

VX isn't so much an inhalation hazard as a contact hazard. Even less so if simply stepped upon with a shoe, though a spike driving it into the foot would help speed things up. :)

Seriously though, I don't think NBK had the idea of extremely toxic, and exotic, CW agents in mind when he created this thread.

Look at his first post, where everything is low-tech, and readily doable. Nothing low-tech about VX or other OPA's, is there?

Plus, it wouldn't immediately stop a persuer, simple poison them. They could still catch your ass, kill or arrest you, then die later...but that'd be too late to do you any good, right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

I think that, despite the new "huggy-feely" forum, you're probably on the short list of candidates for "retirement" (they've stopped calling it execution). :p

Oh, and I wouldn't tell anyone I was from sciencequeerness either. :D

PS: What's with all the :mad: icons at the bottom of your post? :confused:

[Arkangel]

:mad: :mad: Nightstalker, don't you know genius when you see it? :mad: :mad:

How can you possibly compare the brilliance, sophistication and ingenuity of filling glass spheres with VX and drawing pins to the childish simplicity of NBK's plaster caltrops.

Thousands of years of human evolution should push us toward imaginative, complex designs rather than functionality and effectiveness.

There's no way that NBK could have conceived containing VX withing play-doh, and personally I think he should step aside for our new figurehead - 80r15. I know he's not been around very long, but in his case it shouldn't matter. He has the imagination, he has the intelligence, he has..........well, he has.............never mind.

HAIL THE MESSIAH, 80r15 we salute you, and the black thing your boy wonder! :rolleyes:

<small>[ March 13, 2003, 05:39 AM: Message edited by: Arkangel ]</small>

[Mr Cool]

All hail 80r15, Supreme Leader of the Forumites!
You're right 80r15, for safety's sake we should melt glass spheres full of VX in order to seal them. All these things with spikes and plaster sound horribly dangerous, and really stupid too. They'll never work.
But drawing pins (which despite what people might tell you will easily penetrate 1" thick rubber soles BUT I HAVEN'T TESTED THIS... YET I DON'T KNOW FOR SURE I JUST HEARD THAT IT WILL WORK) and VX, which as you know is easy to make from Red Devil Lye, gasoline and biro ink, will be easy to make and could stop entire armies of police!
Hey and we could disguise the munchies as caltrops so the police will not eat them and starve to death! And the caltrops will be disguised as munchies I HAVEN'T TRIED THIS YET, I read it in a book somewhere.

You are teh genius!!!1
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: !!!1!

[Arkangel]

Thank fuck for that! I thought my sarcasm was going to go un-noticed! :)

[80r15]

First of all, I said any nerve gas of your choice. Second of all, I never said use PINS, I said use nails. Third of all, I never said use food. Fourth of all, it's better than most other peoples ideas of having a net with a taser on it. This is meant to be a... ahhh never mind...

[NightStalker]

If NBK wasn't busy with his DVD, I'm sure he'd have already bitten off your head, chewed it up a bit before realizing that the funky taste in his mouth was coming from all the accumulated dust between your ears, spitting out your slightly crunched skull, only to grind it into the dirt under the heel of his Jack Boot (made from real kike skin <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> ).

:p

Oh, and to really put the stamp of lame approval on your post, the TASER net is already manufactured by Foster-Miller (major DOD supplier), as well as being researched by USAMRID (United States Army Material something or other) for use as an NLW to replace traditional landmines. So double :p :p

ALso, the TASER net has a "black sheep" version that uses barbed hooks along with a lethal electricifier to kill whoever it's used on. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

For the love of God, would someone please "retire" this lamer?

[Mr Cool]

What - you were being sarcastic, Arkangel?!
Meaning you don't support our new Dark Overlord?
Well then, straight to BFL for you!!
:D

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">I said any nerve gas of your choice</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">That's great news, since I've just run out of mayoniase so I can't make VX or Tabun at the moment.

Seriously though, 80r15, the point of this thread was to get ideas for something cheap, easy and quick to make in vast numbers. No nerve agent containing device will fit under these criteria!
And if it wasn't for posts like this:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">ummm.... you just gave me the fucking link to the fucking rules page... how the fuck does that help me....</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">then you might be a little better liked... You don't need to swear to be heard you know - it doesn't make you look big and it's not clever :p .

[80r15]

ummmm for any fucking experienced organic chemist, tabun or sarin is not exceptionally challenging. My idea was a caltrop in a sphere with nerve gas in it. AND YOURE telling me im lame. So while youre running away from cops in your "kike skin" boots, you will take the time to set up a taser and net??? Are you fucking stupid. The only nerve gas you will see is the one that they fill your chamber wiht at the state pen. And you call yourself chemists??? Yes, sarin, soman, or tabun might not be cheap or *easy* to make, it can still be made by anyone who knows what theyre doing. If youre too fucking stupid to make those, use CL2(g) or mustard gas... Oh wait, those are to hard and expensive to synthesize too, right??? I mean, they were only used in WW1, so you need really fucking advanced technology to synthesize them. If youre too stupid to figure out the synthesis procedure for Cl2 or mustard gas, let me know, and I will help your dumb ass out. The only thing youre good for is to listen to what NBK2000 says, repeat it multiple times, and criticize anyones post who is new to the forum. Notice new to the forum, NOT ORGANIC CHEM. in your case its the other way around. So go out, find an 8th grade chem book, and start learning what the fuck an ionic bond is nad what valence electrons are.....

<small>[ March 14, 2003, 09:15 PM: Message edited by: 80r15 ]</small>

[blazter]

I would like to cast my vote for giving 80r15 HED. The worthless flaming does little to help, and is polluting this perfectly good thread. I wasn't sure if i was in favor of the fairly strict forum rules, but now im all in favor of strict enforcement.

oh "nad" by the way last I checked HCN was used in the gas chambers, which is NOT a nerve agent. It interfers with normal respiration, by inhibiting the cytochrome oxidase enzyme.

[megalomania]

I am afraid you may have slightly damaged your credibility, 80r15, by suggesting sealing nerve gas with playdoe... Making chemicals is one thing, and more is the power to you for knowing how, but using them is a different manner. Especially chemical weapons.

Come on guys, your looking for kewls to crush :) He hasn't broken any rules that I would bother banning for. Lets see how my experiment in member flaming enforcement works :)

[NightStalker]

Geeze, 80r15, how many times can you say the word "FUCK" in a post before you give me a hard-on from your constant invitation to do so? FIVE TIMES?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

You make stunningly brilliant use of a language developed over thousands of years. A language as fluid on the tongue as a fine wine, as graceful as a soaring eagle, as expressive as a Motzart concerto', and as versatile as a swiss knife...all of it...reduced to a shit smeared rock in the flailing appendage of the screaming simian that is you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">
The only thing youre good for is to listen to what NBK2000 says, repeat it multiple times, and criticize anyones post who is new to the forum.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">Very well then...since I'm simply a toady who cravenly parrots everything NBK says, I'll take my best shot at parroting what he'd say if he was here to be parroted by my craven toadying.

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

Confidential report of the SS Sturmhuhn
Security Classification: Low

ATTN: Reichsführer-SS Sturmhuhn NBK2000

We've just intercepted this internal communique (from our mole within ECHELON) to the Politburo of the untermensch-forum Science Madness by the top handler of their espionage apparat, as regards the capture and execution of their latest spy to attempt infiltration.

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= +=+=+=+=+=

U|_+RA t0P S3qR3T reP@r+

Mission Name: Wintermute

Assigned Agent: 80r15 (ENG TRANS: Bore Us)

Mission:

Infiltrate Roguesci, posing as an 3l!+3 weapons master, and gain their trust. Once accepted into the inner circle, report back all advanced weapons knowledge to mother russia, for domestic manufacture and use against chechean seperatist running dog capitalist FILTH!

Mission Status: Failure.

Agent 80r15 has failed to be accept. His 3l1+3 skillz were sub-par to those of the "Forumites" (as they refer to themselves), thus he was unable to gain acceptance by even the most recent of members, let alone the truely elite.

Agent Status: KIA.

Agent 80r15 was captured by roguesci's internal security apparat, the "SS Sturmhuhn" (lead by the infamous NBK, who's wanted by the UN for numerous human rights abuses involving torture, small farm animals, and other things too disturbing to mention), taken to their HEDquarters (prumably to be interrogated) before being summarily executed in the Hot Electron Death chamber.

Conclusion:

It's the opinion of this handler that further attempts at infiltration would be pointless.
Obviously, the supposed decrease in their internal security (the "huggey-feeley" period) was just a ploy to lure out any potential infiltrators into the open, by dangling the lure of an easing in membership standards where Roguesci's enemies would be sure to take the opportunity to attempt an infiltration, thus revealing their presence.

Gentlemen, I'm afraid that we have been outfoxed by a true master of the craft, NBK, having fallen for such a simple, yet devastatingly effective ploy, as the one that resulted in our agents discovery and execution.

END R3P0rT

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= +=+=+=+=+=

Analysis:

As per our previous periods of "lax" security, our enemies have taken this opportunity to attempt yet another futile attempt to infiltrate our ranks. And, once again, the simple minded untermensch have fallen for such a simple trick so many times that you'd think they'd have learned by now.

Even hanging the fly-blown and blackened corpses of previously captured spies on the BFL Avenue hasn't deterred them. Naturally, this can be attributed to their inferior intelligence, which is why they're untermensch in the first place, eh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Conclusion:

Continue with Operation "Lame Drain", until the current batch of enemy infiltrators have been removed, before restoring normal member security standards.

HEIL NBK!

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

Feel better now? I certainly do!

Now, as for YOUR lame idea that:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">
...for any fucking (another invitation? Nightstalker) experienced organic chemist, tabun or sarin is not exceptionally challenging.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">While the actual laboratory skills in running the reaction may not be beyond their skill, the actual material handling skills, and physical equipment to do so, is VERY lacking in the VAST MAJORITY of organic laboratories. CW agents like sarin, and VX even more so, are orders of magnitude more toxic than the reagents handled on a daily basis in the majority of organic labs in the world.

How many labs, even labs in an elite first-world university, have positive-overpressure full body suits/level 4 hazmat gloveboxs/flood decon showers/pharmacological antidotes/scrubber towers/etc needed to handle chemicals who's very purpose is to kill quickly and surely in milligram quantities within minutes of the slightest contact?

Even such "primitive" CW's like mustard gas can injure (or kill) a person if their equipment is even the slightest bit defective, leaving them crippled for life...what little life they have left, that is. Chemical warfare agents are like jealous women...easy to spite, quick to harm, slow to forgive.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">
If youre too stupid to figure out the synthesis procedure for Cl₂ or H, let me know, and I will help your dumb ass out.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">(Corrected his syntax. Nightstalker)

Gee, I hope that wouldn't be a copy and paste job of NBK's lengthy post in an earlier thread where he detailed a total synthesis of mustard gas from antifreeze, would it? If so, keep it...as a going away present...from me to you.

Given how you've not even the language skills to construct a coherent sentence, let alone flame, I give your credability in judging my skill (or anyone's) in the preparation and handling of super-toxic materials to be rather...tiny...yet oddly humorous. :p

Plus, asking people who don't know you from a homeland security informer to provide detailed narrations of our exploits in making internationally banned chemical warfare agents on an open forum during a time of hysterical witch hunting for "terrorists armed with weapons of mass destruction" shows a very glaring lack of discretion on your part.

But that's just my opinion, not that of NBK, or any of the other staffers who's job it is to decide who stays or goes here.

PS: Can anyone spot the "Nueromancer" reference?

<small>[ March 15, 2003, 01:39 AM: Message edited by: NightStalker ]</small>

[Mr Cool]

Hehe, let's not ban him. I've always speculated that if you flame an idiot enough he'll explode due to a build up of shit between his ears, this looks like a perfect opportunity to test this hypothesis. Although his venting system seems to be working quite well, look at what he's spewed all over our Forum for proof of that!

Come on then 80r15, I will give you a chance to prove your worth. Post a photograph of your lab setup (decon showers and all :p ). While you're at it, post pictures of your Sarin and Tabun, including precursors. Then and only then will I believe that you are in fact not an idiot. Lol, I can guess what is coming next - "Fucking I don't fucking need to fucking prove myself to you fucking idiots fuck shit fucking gays."
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">My idea was a caltrop in a sphere with nerve gas in it. AND YOURE telling me im lame.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">Hey 80r15, I have another l33+ idea - what about an A-bomb in a pretzel? What do you think, huh? Then we could put that in play-dough and surround it with sarin-smeared caltrops!
HAHAHA! :D :D

Why don't you quit with this idea, and start posting some of your advanced knowledge of organic chemistry? Because you're not gaining any respect this way...

[80r15]

ALL HAIL MEGALOMANIA!!!!!
Thank you greatly Megalomania... The thing is, I had an idea of mixing caltrops with the little green balls in THE ROCK(btw VX or EA2912? i think is amber, not green, and its not "gooey" like they portay it in the movie) and decided to make a little joke with it on this forum(the playdough thing). At sciencemadness, this would have been laughed at and people would have moved on, but apparantly there is a different mood here, and now I recognize that. I will be more "careful" about what or where I post..... btw 1 4m n0t 4 "k3wl", 1 4m 4 h4x0r.....PS thank you for not banning me Megalomania. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

edit: I don't think that you could get enough U-235 into a pretzel to make it go super-critical... As for the pictures...Fucking I don't fucking need to fucking prove myself to you fucking idiots fuck shit fucking gays. lol :)

<small>[ March 15, 2003, 07:46 AM: Message edited by: 80r15 ]</small>

[Al Nobel]

Palestinians use potatoes with lots of nails in it to stop Israeli vehicles (biodegradable caltrops :D ).
I searched for some pictures but I´ve found only a german site with general information.
<a href="http://www.nadir.org/nadir/initiativ/sanis/archiv/intifada/kap_02.htm" target="_blank">http://www.nadir.org/nadir/initiativ/sanis/archiv/intifada/kap_02.htm</a>

And 80r15 the potatoes are of course compatible with Anthrax,VX...

<small>[ March 15, 2003, 09:11 AM: Message edited by: Al Nobel ]</small>

[Anthony]

The most obvious thing is that "Boris" started with a completely off-topic post. VX filled glass spheres are not caltrops by any stretch of the imagination!

"make a little joke with it on this forum(the playdough thing). At sciencemadness, this would have been laughed at and people would have moved on"

You're a newbie, and judging by the way you present yourself, how were people supposed to realise you were only joking. You'd be amazed at some of the ideas some people come up with and actually think are good.

Secondly, we work with serious materials; sensitive explosives that endanger life and limb, and even more dangerous CW agents (hypothetically...). Joking around isn't always wise, what is said in jest may be taken seriously by someone, who goes on to serious injure or kill themselves.

[80r15]

and your SS whatever cannot stop the
Komitet Gosudarstvennoye Bezopastnosti!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[firebreether]

Have your tires ever been punctured by a nail? They stay in there and leak very slowly which probably wouldn't help you too much with a cop on yer butt. Because the caltrops aren't stuck to the ground it seems like they should puncture, then get stuck in the tire and just "roll with it". I dont know if the extra prongs of a caltrop would affect it much. It seems to me that you need something that'll really rip the heck out of a tire so that it violently flats. The hollow caltrops from the CIA look just the ticket, or the stamped steel ones, with all the barbs on them.

<small>[ March 16, 2003, 12:00 AM: Message edited by: firebreether ]</small>

[chemwarrior]

80r15, Just stop now while your ahead. You dont really want to get banned, do you?

'Tis funny though. Would have been better had NBK been here. Its allways funny to watch him 'stalk and kill' a kewl.

Oh, and 80r15, your damn lucky that Polverone and Madscientist are kind about fools on sciencemadness.org, else you would have been banned long ago. I would also advise you to cease the use of those :mad: faces all the time. You DID see, Im assuming, where Polverone removed them from a post and, quite polietly, asked you to cease using them right?

And btw, had NBK been here, I doubt we would have heard anything except the sizzling of HED. :D

[Energy84]

I really like the idea of stamping caltrops from single sheets of steel. Although it might be a bitch to get a set of dies custom made for the job, it'd be really easy to make them once you got the die.
So, has anybody seen a die for these or know any other ways of making those nice barbed caltrops?

[chemwarrior]

I havent seen a mold for them before, but I imagine that by taking a ready-made one from a barb-wire fence and makeing a plaster cast of it, one could then take and make a steel mold, if they had access to the equipment. Then they could make a multiple caltrop cast from which a person could make hunderds in less than an hour. This would be much easier, and, I think, much cheaper, than buying the wire and cutting all the bards from it. Also, it would make for an easy way of getting rid of scrap metal you have laying around.

Then again, I might just be grasping at air, but...

[80r15]

chemwarrior shut the fuck up. you dont contribute shit to scienecmadness and I do. Ok b1t(h? n0w 5hut th3 fu(k u[]D!!
and i dont want to get banned but if thats what NBK is gonna do, then so be it... I still have sciencemadness and quite frankly, 1 h4v3nt l34rnt 5h1t 4t th15 51t3 yet...

<small>[ March 16, 2003, 07:55 AM: Message edited by: 80r15 ]</small>

[Mr Cool]

Damn, you know it's really hard to type while laughing your ass off...
Anyway, I've been searching sciencemadness, and have to say that you have contributed NOTHING to it! Well, unless these count as contributions:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">WELL,,,
define suicide(if you mean killing themselves...duh) than YES its true. Hell I have almost killed myself on NUMEROUS occasions. Once i almost got septic(where your body dies of dehydration) thnks to rust, and once I spilt some acidic rust solution on myself and my leg had weird bumbs for a week or two..., and once i had a broken piece of erlyn meyer flask circulating around in me until the doctor got it out and prevented me from slicing up myself. AND NOW i will try a HF synthesis very shortly(which eats away at bones and heart if absorbed through skin) but i dont mind almost dying for the sake of science and i will continue doing my "experiments" forever. But I would never like, shoot myself in the head, or Stand in a nice cloud of VX... *BANG*(HEADLINES:::::::::::::::R1ngm45t3r is found dead with large bullethole in head and massive amounts of VX in bloodstream.....................)HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHa ha ha</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">
TEACH THEM A LESSON WITH HF. one athat they will never forget for as long, or short as they live

DONT GET MAD, Anhillate them........</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">Lol, I had to edit out thirty-four :mad: 's!!
Hahahaha, I'm still waiting for something useful from you, and still laughing my ass off at you!

Edit:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">1 h4v3nt l34rnt 5h1t 4t th15 51t3 yet</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">Clearly, the poor kid hasn't even learned how to type yet!
HAHAHA!!!!

<small>[ March 16, 2003, 09:48 AM: Message edited by: Mr Cool ]</small>

[darkdontay]

Maybe if we just ignore him he will wither away.

I have a PDF scan of a book called [please I know the name alone sounds KEWL] "Secret Guide to Making Ninja Weapons".
Now their is a section on making Caltrops. I will upload the book once UPLOAD Premission are resumed.

I'm also looking for some good photos's of polic spike stripes. I would like to find a practical way of making them. Well I'm off to do more research.

[chemwarrior]

80r15, show me just ONE post of yours, on either site, that has actually been useful. Im pretty damn sure you cann't show me one.

Oh, and btw, you ought know you can not compare sciencemadness.org with roguescience.org. THEY ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. I mean, come on, one is about explosives and weapons, and the other is about chemistry. They are both, in their own rights, good sites, but when fools like you begin to cluter them, they begin to go downhill.

So, do EVERYONE a favor and go start your own little 'E&W Forum HED victims website' and save us the trouble of typing out replies to you.

[nbk2000]

Been a while since I last saw Nightstalkers little parody, god's what a hoot! :D

Anyways, back on topic...

there's a site ran by one of the LANL boys that has an interesting barrier design for vehicles that uses pipe and cable.

Go to http://www.pushback.com/terror/PipeBarrier/ for details.

Here's a picture of a truck hitting the barrier at 40mph and flipping upside-down! :o :)

http://www.pushback.com/terror/PipeBarrier/PipeBarrier.jpeg

The neat thing about this is that it might be possible to use large diameter plastic piping, like that used in agriculture, to build such a barrier, rather than the steel pipe, since it only needs to make the piggies stop for a minute, while they figure out how to get around it (which they shouldn't be able to if you position it properly), given you at least a miles headway on them, making it nearly impossible for them to catch up to you. :p

Another idea I had recently was to use a small explosive charge inside of concrete lightposts to drop them onto the road, forming an instant road block. They're easy to get into, have a built in power supply, and would easily fracture and fall from a small charge inside of them. When the pole hit the road, it'd break into many tire-shredding chunks. If luck is with you, then a few hundreds pounds of concrete will fall on Mr. Pig's head. :D

[Dark Meat]

nbk,

this is hardly a contribution, but way way WAY back up in this thread... well, the first post (yeah, i just read everything, it's late, and i can't think of anything better) you said putting something extremely slippery on a stairway would have good effects, since no one would be holding the rails as obviously they are, on invading your turf, far too mighty and powerful for... rails? anyways, first thing i thought was that when falling, the reaction for me would be to grab out at the rail (i've done this countless times, minus the lubricant... i am uncoordinated as hell) ... so, wrapping nichrome wire around the rail, assuming that they won't burn and you know that someone is coming, would enhance the effect by a lot since anyone trying to come up would a) slip, and either fall to their doom, or slip, and grab at the rail to support their weight... which would result in b) letting go of the rail quick sharp and falling down to their doom harder.

my theory is, when they grab the rail, they will put all of their weight onto it, and with the shock will practically launch themselves down the stairs, where if they are simply climbing up, and fall, chances are their body weight would be positioned forwards.

this post seems a bit k3wl, but i'll post it anything since it conjures interesting images in my head. i had some ideas and some things my friends and i use on my mind before... so i may post these tomorrow... but now it's late.

[Kid Orgo]

Why not just cover the rail in the slippery shit?

On a similar vein, what about simply loosening the railing until it comes off at a touch?





Anyone ever seen Terrible Secret of Space?

"Do you have stairs in your lair? Piggies must go down the stairs."

[nbk2000]

Two strips of metal on opposing sides of the rail, connected to an outlet, would do the trick quite handily.

But, RTPB "Plan for Failure" says that it will only be hot when YOU are holding it, not when the pork is, so that rules it out as being too likely to kill you, and not the pork.

Remember, invading piggies are either in your house and on your ass within a couple minutes, or they pull out and surround you once they lose the surprise factor.

Thus, under 5 minutes of your life would the cops be inside your house, compared to many years for you to be in there. Who's the most likely to be killed by a faulty boobytrap in your own home?

Thought so.

Want something safe to store that'd wipe your house clean of all life?

Get a 5 gallon bucket with a lid. Attach a hose from the lid to the air intake of your central air, with a switch so you can turn it on anytime you need to. Have several gallons of battery acid in the bucket at all times and a paper bag (sealed in a plastic baggie) with several pounds of sodium cyanide next to the bucket.

Pigs come knocking, you drop the paper bag of cyanide (after removing it from the plastic, duh!) into the acid and slam the lid on. It'll take a few seconds for the acid to soak through the paper, giving you time to get the lid on before it generates a pound or so of hydrogen cyanide gas. This is dispersed through your house via the central air and eradicates the highly annoying indoor pest known as the "kevlar roach". :D

Naturally, the room you are in is NOT vented through the central air system, and you've got a gas mask with an air hose leading to the outdoors.

Give it five minutes then switch the C/A to vent with external air intake while you go about collecting the goodies off the bodies of the kevlar roaches. :D

[vulture]

How about boobytrapping or filling the doorhinges with something nasty? The "kevlar roaches" like to kick down doors, thereby destroying the hinges. When you wander around your house, you're just using the doors as any other normal person would.

Locking the boobytrapped doors might be a good way to make sure they kick it down.

I wonder if a reasonably well painted door on a wall would fool them when they come rushing in. I've seen paintings of doors on walls which were very realistic, so realistic that I slammed my head into one when trying to walk through. :mad:

Anyways, imagine them trying to kick down a door that's been painted onto the wall. :D

[nbk2000]

A person could nail a half inch sheet of plywood to a wall studs, cover it with wood veneer (to make it look like a door and not a sheet of plywood nailed to a wall), attach a doorknob, and surround it with a wood trim.

Voila, decoy door! :D

This is ony feasible on doors that swing towards the person, otherwise you'll have to build a recessed frame for the fake door and install it into the wall.

Either way, it'd be amusing to see the looks on the kevlar roaches faces when they see a hallway with a dozen "doors', only one of which is real. :p

The hinges is a good idea, but I've had two doors fall off their hinges in my life, meaning two times I'd have been killed if it was booby-trapped. :(

[Monkeychunks]

For barbbed caltrops, 3-hooked fishing hooks can be heated, bent into shape, and then heat treated again. Chicken wire, matris springs, or those things they put under cement when building a new road or foundation are good ideas, but not of them are made of high carbon steel, so they can't be heat treated. You can also make the kinds they sell over the internet by cutting a piece of sheet metal into a rectangle and then cutting the ends in half about 1/3 of the way and twisting them outward at a angle.
If nails had large enough heads, you could cut/grind the heads into a triangle shaped blade. That would stick every time.

[Ropik]

Very nasty surprise for "rushers" can be made by stretch a thin steel stranded wire in half ankle/knee height and follow it with carpet/thin rubber sheet/thin plywood board with nails pushed to it. The "Duct nail nasty tape" would work perfectly. When rusher runs for you, he is stopped by the wire and falls... what is forward? In the best he will need serious finger/palm treatment.

[nbk2000]

There's a new thing called "Tire Balls", which are inflated balls that are inserted into a tire, and which make it impervious to flattening, as only the ball that is punctured will deflate, while the others maintain the tires integrity.

Google search using "tire balls" for more info.

[xperk]

now why do I get the idea that the company hired a feminist ad agency to name their product? ouch...

Well maybe an explosive low-cost caltrop could do the trick: instead of a nail inserted in the plaster place a short tube with a .22 in it.
In one end the tube is cut at an angle hence sharp enough to penetrate the tire.
For reasurrance of ignition a pebble or a piece of welding rod may be glued onto a part of the rim of the cartridge - if the tube has some sort of edge or cut preventing it from falling out of the tire the repeated rotary impacts would at some point set of the charge and possibly deflate several tire balls due to the ricochette effect..
Secondly on discharge the casing would dislodge itself from the tube allowing for free airflow..

[nbk2000]

I was at an ag. supply store recently and saw thresher blades.

Ooooooooh! :D

Plates of steel shaped like triangles, with razor sharp serrated edges, and big as the palm of my hand. :) And only $1/each. :D

I'm thinking if they were welded to hinges, and attached to a segmented strip that could be rolled out across a road, that'd be more than adequate for deflating even truck tire.

The blades would lie flat till a cable pull that ran through them lifted them up into cutting position, whereupon the end of the blade would fit into a slot cut into the strip that would support it in the vertical position.

These could be easily welded into a permanent upright position and fixed to the road with a power-driver to form an impassable barrier to [MIL-SPEAK]shape your battlespace[/MIL-SPEAK] and aid your E&E from carnivorous pork. :p

[Anders]

On the subject of creating a smokescreen, one sure way is using diesel-oil.
The consept is nothing more than a variation of the trusted russian method of creating a smokescreen on their MBTs.
Just mount a spare windscreen washer pump +reservoir on a vacant space in the engine compartmeet, connect it to the electrical system, then make a contact for it in the cab.
Next, drill a hole in the exhaust pipe as close to the engine as possible. Connect the hose from the pump with a piece of copper tubing(to protect the original plastic tubing from the heat) and fix it on to the exhaust pipe.
Then just add diesel-oil to the reservoir and when needing a big, dense, white/grey smoke screen , just hit the button for your alternative windscreen washer. (note: a)the exhaust system must have operational temp. to work and b) this is both toxic and must likely to violate most trafic laws in the world, but boy does it work !!!!

[nbk2000]

For protecting yourself against nails, spikes, and glass shards, there's now a shoe insert available from www.kpindustries.com called the "Pro Safety Sole", that'll help protect you from these impediments.

RTPB "Plan for Failure" says you must be prepared to defend against your own weapons.

[Bigfoot]

To restrict movement:
ATF. No, not the feds, ;) the red gunk you put in your automatic transmission to keep it working. Slippery to walk on. Have a car with a bad tranny seal, leaked about 3 quarts onto garage floor last winter. I've done cleanup with kaolin, but I won't walk on it when wet, 'cause it's still quite slippery when wet. Floor is concrete, drive is asphalt.
Both are slippery. The asphalt is worse, though. Stayed slipperier longer, dry.
As for a vehicular smokescreen, my favorite expedient is a dry-chemical fire extinguisher. I'm a total nut for the 5 lb. models, keep a few on hand and charged. When I pick up a "salvage" unit, I empty it on the street, where the community college kids drag race. Very nice "smoke screen." Lasts a minute or 2 in still air. Discharged from a moving car...do it once and be hooked. Can't be arrested for having a couple big extinguishers in your car, ready to go! Your mechanic won't think anything of it. And they'll double as fire control devices!

[teshilo]

For urban actions possible combinations as smoke+oil+spikes may be used againsts both personell and cars, and as about booby-trapped caltrops.?Any who want cleaned road with caltrops, get the very big surprise :D

[THAT Dude]

Have you ever seen those tent poles that have an elastic band running down the center ,some of them are designed to unfold and snap in place on their own(if you hold just one end,throw it in air, etc).
If you made some thing simular but had spikes or blades sticking out it would hopefully act as a spike strip that you could throw out the window of a moving vehicle. ;)
Contaning them maybe a problem from a concelment stand point
,as they are odd looking and dangerous it would be hard to have ready to use and not have to worry about sitting one,
but you could mount one or more under your vehicle pretty esely as long as you take steps to make shore that it/they did not spring out and slash your tires when you deploy them.
Some sort of delay mechanism should be used to keep that from happening,but I'm not shore how you would rig that :( :confused: .

You might want to rig it to explode by remote for more kick to punch thrue steel belted tires or to damage the under side of the car(transmission,etc).

[nbk2000]

Found the proximity fuze circuit for the PDM in US Patent 3939770. :)

And a related one in US Patent 3754508.

[billybobjoe]

I just had an idea, you can rent one of those abrasive chop saws for about 23 bucks a day. So rent it and buy a few hundred feet of 1/4 inch round by 1/16 wall mild steel tubing, about a hudred bucks. Then set the mitre to 45 deg and just keep cutting them off at 2". Put these into your plaster caltrops and they would do a nice job to feet, cars, or trucks.

[teshilo]

Modern caltrops patents:
http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=US5921703&F=0
http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=FR2780077&F=0

[Meawoppl]

I was bored once and put a number of wood screws through the sides of a coke bottle. In the year that it occupied my desk it occured to me that if such a construction were run over by a car would likely cause at least one or more of the screws to puncture the tire, attaching the bottle to the wheel and making an awful noise as the car bumped over it each time.
The leak would likely be slow, unless the bottle was forcibly pulled out b/c the screw threads would ream the hole they left.
I imagine it would be rather effective if planted in front of a parked car. Not to mention the fact that it would just look like trash to the casual observer.

[edit]

Another good note about railways, you can feel a train for miles ahead on the rails . . . admittledy that may be harder if going 100 mph+.

[edit #2]

Do I get any credit for catching the "Wintermute" joke? It was a good one Nightstalker.

[Hirudinea]

Modern caltrops patents:

http://v3.espacenet.com/jpeg?PN=US5921703

That picture reminds me of metal corner shelf brackets I've seen at Home Depot, with a Dremel you might be able to make some of the above.

[the_twitchy1]

One idea that I didn't see was tripointed fishhooks tied together in a net. A single trihook fishhook is not that useful as a caltrop as it will bend under shoes instead of impaling them.

However, tying them together in a 4' x 4' net of fine wire (or even fishing line) will cause them to 'wrap around' a target leg, catching on clothing and skin. And a barbed hook is a HUGE pain to remove from a body part, I can tell you from experience.

It would only work with targets that are moving relatively fast, as someone taking their time wouldn't have a 'wraparound' effect. It still would slow them down, though, as removing a barbed fishhook from a shoe is hard, too.

[Jacks Complete]

See http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/improvised-weapons/5776-stop-sticks.html for discussion of a related item, the "Stop stick".

[Alexires]

I was just thinking.

How about using small springs? You should be able to buy a heap of inch long springs and spread them over the floor.

Also, I'm assuming due to its name (Hi speed chase) excessive speed will be involved. On a trip up north a month or so back, we were following a 4 wheel drive when the tires must have picked up a stone and thrown it with such force at the bottom of the car that it bounced back down, hit the road and then bounced high enough to smash into the middle of our windscreen.

Have a light metal plate that covers the bottom of your car (similar to a bash plate, but bigger and thinner). When the piggies are in chase, have some way of dumping a few hundred (or thousand) bb's, marbles or ceramic balls on the road.

Hopefully they would bounce off the bottom of the car and go high enough to do some damage to windscreen or somethings else.

Even if they don't, if your in an urban area a thousand bb's doing 80 km/h (50 miles an hour) are going to break a whole lot of shit.

[Hirudinea]

On a trip up north a month or so back, we were following a 4 wheel drive when the tires must have picked up a stone and thrown it with such force at the bottom of the car that it bounced back down, hit the road and then bounced high enough to smash into the middle of or windscreen.


in an urban area a thousand bb's doing 80 km/h (50 miles an hour) are going to break a whole lot of shit.

Mabye you could modify a hubcap on the rear wheel to throw BBs at someone chasing you by its rotational speed?