12ga Dart Gun

[ST]

http://server3004.freeyellow.com/stx/dartgun.gif

I did this to post within the "high velocity steel slug" or whatever thread before it was closed.

The dart is made out of a 12ga wad with a nail pushed through it and epoxied in. This is used to reduce the recoil so that it can be used in a handgun but still provide good penetration.

The guns pretty much the same as a design i posted before.

------------------
ST
posted pictures (http://server3004.freeyellow.com/stx/forumpics.html)

[ANTI-SYSTEM]

this can be made or bought? looks like a modified flare gun.

[ST]

Made, its just two bits of pipe and endcaps welded together + firing pin/plunger/trigger.

To fire, unscrew the barrel, insert cartridge, screw barrel back on, pull plunger back, pull trigger.

------------------
ST
posted pictures (http://server3004.freeyellow.com/stx/forumpics.html)

[Mexican Pizza]

You wouldn't happen to have any more detailed directions to make that would you?

[BaDSeeD]

You don't need any more directions to make it, its right there in front of you.

ST why would you make that into a dart pistol? First off.. Turning a wad upside down is going to make it sail all over the place, and second... its only going to penetrate the length of the nail. Therefore, nonlethal (unless you use a gutter spike...nah). Why not just leave the the shotshell alone and use it that way?

The only use i could see for a dart, would be a Cap-chur type dart, filled with a tranquilizer.



------------------
BaDSeeD
Knowledge is the true power, ignorance will bring your demise.

[Anthony]

The nail could be armour piercing, but a drill bit would be better.

I like the design of the pistol though, do you reckon it be ok with a regular shot load?

I suppose it could be simplified by not having the trigger and just pulling back and releasing the plunger to fire, but the trigger would obviously better for a little more work.

[PYRO500]

I say it'd be better to get a brass chambered flare gun, saw off the end that is narrower than the shell andget a flanged pipe that fits on the barrel, then slip a piece of pipe bigger than the new barrel over the first half of the barrel and stuff the space with fiberglass insulation so it dosent get hot and you can hold it, if I have time I will draw a pic. that would be less likely to take off your hand, so long as you securely solder it together. BTW, do shotgun blanks have a wad? i've never disasemmbled one before.

[ST]

Mexican Pizza,

There is no point giving more detailed plans for a gun that has to be improvised out of what you can get, use the picture as a basic idea as you can bet that if you tried to make it, it wouldnt end up looking anything like the picture.


Badseed,

The point was to lower recoil, obviously it isnt a long range weapon but i think it would fly strait enough for what it is meant, i was assuming the nail would come away from the plastic when it hit. You could also probably just use the primer as propellant, just to muck around with, and reusable.

You say to use full load shotshells ... ive never shot a handgun but shurely it would have a lot of kick, especially in a dodgied up handgun.

Could you use a wrist support, such as that found on some slingshots?

------------------
ST
posted pictures (http://server3004.freeyellow.com/stx/forumpics.html)

[This message has been edited by ST (edited June 27, 2001).]

[imported_Sgt_Starr]

Depending on the size of the load and the position of the arm brace Im sure it would be possible to brake your arm dislocate elbow, big bruises any number of things I meen if you dont hold the gun right you can break your shoulder with a good shot gun and 00 buck

[Anthony]

A 2" nail weighs practically nothing so recoil shouldn't be a problem. If you were to fire a hot load though, what I'd do is instead of the cocking plunger, have a bolt in side of the reciever. That would leave a nice flat surface at the rear of the gun (the end cap). Then I'd hold the pistol by the grip at arms length in my right hand, then lock my left arm out straight and put the heel of my hand firmly up against the end cap. That way, when you fired the gun, it would push straight back along your left arm (which is locked so doesn't bend) rather than bending back your wrist on your right hand.

I might give on of these 12ga pistols a go, .410 pistols were apparently popular self defense weapons years ago.

[PYRO500]

what if you fired a rubber bouncy ball from it? would it sting like hell? or if it hit something solid would it bounce to great hieghts?

[BaDSeeD]

When I was younger some friends and I got our hands on a double barreled twelve gauge (side by side). It was a cheap sears and roebuck (before it was just known as sears). Well we fired all kinds of shit outa this gun. We had no problem getting shotgun shells for it, as most of our fathers hunted. But we took shells apart and put nails in them, rock salt, even lengths of piano wire with split shot on the end. Anyhow, after all this abuse, our barrel was taking a beating. One of the barrels had started to swell near the choke, and the other split completely. Nearly looking like a peeled banana. Well seing as it wasnt really safe anymore, and looked like hell, out came the hack saw. We cut the barrels down to I'd have to guess here... never actually measured it, but they had to be around 6 - 8 inches. They were cut down to just a bit in front of the hand guard. And while we were at it, we also cut the stock into a crude pistol grip. We continued to shoot this thing for years, but only with factory ammo, none of the funky shit that had destroyed it in the first place. We fired slugs, buckshot, and birdshot, and many of them were even magnum loads. No broken wrists, no dislocated fingers or elbows, just ringing ears. The point is, that a short barrel is going to give you less recoil than a longer gun, simply because the powder dosn't all burn before the projectile exits the barrel. Shotguns use slow burning powder if you didn't know. Therefore less velocity, and less recoil. Regardless of whatever the projectile ways, it will always be lower with a smaller barrel. I can even remember firing a load of bird shot out of that gun at a snow man, at close range. I remember the big black mark that it left from the unburned powder. In conclusion, I'd say, that as long as your barrel and breech are strong enough to withstand the pressure, you shouldnt have any problems.



------------------
BaDSeeD
Knowledge is the true power, ignorance will bring your demise.

[Anthony]

Yeah but if I made one I'd be using black powder as the propellant. Obvious for me to do would just start with a small amount of shot and gradually add more and observing the forces on my wrist.

Interesting story BaDSeeDhttp://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/smile.gif

[SawedOff8gaugeman]

Shooting a sawed-off is an art http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/smile.gif As it could be shooting some kind of cannon-class pistol(I've never tried, but could mention .45-70s and 50BMGs http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/smile.gif).

Usually handcannons have longer barrel than your 6-8 inches. What I didn't know was that so short-barreled handcannon could be easily fired by kids (did I figure it out right ??) http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/biggrin.gif Were the ammo maybe blackpowder ones, I've thought many shotshells have fast-burning powder?

[This message has been edited by SawedOff8gaugeman (edited June 29, 2001).]

[AR-15 Man]

If you have the knob straight back you arm not your wrist takes up a lot of the recoil. Your arm will slowly take up the recoil. That is the art of sawed of shotguns. As for Handcannons you just have to take it like a bitch and hope your first shot hits. I am talking like the 45-70 and Mountain Eagle pistol's in 30-06.

[The_Coyote]

I just am planning to make this gun. I am making it with galvanized steel tubing.. I was just wondering if anyone has made one of these (or something similer... ex:a slam bang)and if they can tell me approximatly how many times i could fire it before it "shoots out" the barrel. And instead of welding might I be able to use zinc solder?

[BaDSeeD]

I wouldn't solder, or braze anything on a gun. Its not safe. I would also prefer finding an alternative to welding (simply because i'm not that good at it). My advice for anything gun related... buy yourself a set of taps and dies. Threads are a hell of a lot stronger than welds in my oppinion. And you can always dismantle a treaded weapon. Not a welded one.

About the shotgun I had mentioned previously. An interesting bit about how we nearly got busted. Nearby where i lived growing up was a very large public park (Deleware Park), anyhow, we used to sneak out there very early in the morning, or late at night and do some shooting. Most of the time we'd just pop off a few shots, and either no one knew what the noise was, or simply didn't care. Well our normal targets were beer cans, barbage cans, trees, the odd sea gull that flew by, etc. Well eventually in our travels we found a spot along the water that used to house a lot of rats. Not your garden variety squeakers, i'm talking BIG fuckin 20+ pound rats! We used to make it a weekly trip to go there and shoot as many of the bastards as we could. It got to the point that we would go through a whole box of birdshot (25 shells) and still have more "targets" than ammo. Anyhow we scrounged as much ammo as we could, and made almost a whole night of shooting. I think we had upwards of 200 shells that night. Anyhow, our normal 25 or so shells would usually go unnoticed by anyone (or so we thought). But that night, we had to make a run for it when two police cruisers showed up. They were covering the park pretty good, and sooner or later were going to find us if we didn't find a really good place to hide. We thought (geniuses that we were) to go up the huge sewage pipe at the one end of the park. I'm not even going to describe the smells. Well it never dawned on us that we were going to find MORE and BIGGER rats there. We were moving through the pipe kinda haunched over with only my friends pen light to see by, when a rat that was the size of a fucking beagle came down the tube towards us. Well my friend didn't think, or care about the consequences, and shot the thing at about 5 feet away. After a few minutes we could just about hear each other if we screamed in each others faces. And we ran the rest of the length of the pipe to the other side. By this time the cops, fire department, water authority, sewer authority, and gas company had several vehicles pulling up manhole covers, and blocking off the street because of a "methane gas explosion". Well with all the people around, that was the last time we saw the gun. One of the guys stuck the barrel in the mud, and then stood on it to make sure it was well burried. We didn't want to take a chance in getting caught with it. And that was the end of our fun.

Ya know its a damned shame that I didnt know how to make anything stronger than a BP bomb back then. Could have made for some very interesting ways of exterminating ratshttp://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/smile.gif

Heh... that was a long and useless post. Hope it was entertaining at least.



------------------
BaDSeeD
Knowledge is the true power, ignorance will bring your demise.

[Sako]

Welding is supposed to be just as strong, if not stronger than the base metal. if you use a tap and die set, use fine threads instead of coarse, because fine thread is stronger, at lest that's what I heard

[Anthony]

I would have thought fine threads would have stripped easier? Welds are very strong, but under flexing loads they can crack and break.

[Sako]

I scanned this out of Machine Tool Operation EM-965....

REASONS FOR FINER PITCHES (NATIONAL FINE) Threads in automobile work are cut in hard tough materials and do not require to be so coarse as threads cut in cast iron. A screw or bolt a given size and of finer pitch has greater mirror diameter and consequently greater strength than a coarse-pitch screw of same size. A fine-pitch screw or nut may be set up tighter. And does not shake loose so readily as One Of Coarse Pitch

[Ericm115]

I guess yall didnt realize what his gun is... It a paintball gun. Pull back the hammer and release it with the trigger... with a little modification, and cheap stingray could be made to fire shells

[Energy84]

If anybody uses bolts, be sure to get high quality "Grade 8" bolts. They have a sort of golden color to them instead of the chrome color that regular bolts have. The "Grade 8" ones are waay stronger. I can't remember the figures off hand, but I've seen comparison sheets between regular and grade 8 bolts. I work at a hardware/agriculture store so I might be able to find those sheets and bring 'em home to scan if anybody's interested.

------------------
why oh why didn't I take the blue pill?

[Fingerless]

A good weld should be stronger, and as flexible, as the base metal. Threads will NOT be as strong as a weld.

Also, to the guy that said a shotgun will break your shoulder if you dont shoot it right-well, either you dont know much about guns, or your a 60 pound weakling. Shotguns kick is not that bad, even a 10 gauge, especially compared to other guns-toughen up! I have yet to see someone with a broken shoulder from a 12 gauge, even shooting heavy 2 ounce magnum turkey loads.