anyone made explosive rat/mouse traps? - Archive file

[megalomania]

kingspaz
Frequent Poster
Posts: 348
From: UK
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 03, 2001 05:33 PM
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i was thinking of making one for an annoying mouse in my shed. i thought of an ordinary mouse trap with a blasting cap placed in such a way that when the trap is triggered the arm strikes the blasting cap setting it off and destroying the mouse. the only thing is i want a trap which soley uses explosives so thats the only thing to kill the mouse.
if this sounds like crap i'm sorry but its late

any replies will be appreciated
thanx


Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2312
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 03, 2001 07:54 PM
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Landmine! Electrically ingnited charge with a microswitch to complete the circuit, put a plate on top of the microswitch and some cheese on the plate.
Or, smear some nitrogen triodide on the floor and put some cheese in the middle of it before it dries.


ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted February 03, 2001 10:54 PM
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nitrogen triiodide is very weak. You'll probally blow its leg off, then youll have a mouse with blodd pouring out if its let running all over the shed. oh yeah, the fact that mice like cheese is BS! they like salami and ham better.
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Explosives Archive

[This message has been edited by ALENGOSVIG1 (edited February 03, 2001).]


M-1000
A new voice
Posts: 9
From:
Registered: FEB 2001
posted February 03, 2001 11:02 PM
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Take a peice of steel plate.Then take an old electric cord split it down so that you can hook one end of it to one side of the plate and the other end to the other side of the plate.Then put a pile of peanut butter in the center of it.Anybody know if this will trip the circut breaker?Would it work if you grounded the plate?Anyway I think this would be cleaner than exploding them.


PYRO500
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Posts: 1474
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 03, 2001 11:31 PM
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DO NOT TRY THAT! that will absolutely blow the breaker, or even worse catch the wiring in the walls on fire! to electrocute something you need a conductive path through it and nothing else! also you probably would want a higher voltage to break through the insulation if the rats feet to ensure conductivity


J
Moderator
Posts: 605
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 04, 2001 07:07 AM
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What's wrong with a good old fashioned mousetrap? ;-)
The burnt mouse pieces from an explosion would more than likely attract other vermin, and stink out the shed.

A high voltage blast from a car ignition coil might do the trick, like a giant bug zapper. Mind you, I would not like to forget about the trap and then be reminded when I tread on it in a couple of months!

J

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"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman


Bandit
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Posts: 82
From: U.K.
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 04, 2001 07:19 AM
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There was a topic on this ages ago by Badseed i think. As said before a vapourised rat isnt the most safe thing to be decorating your shed. What about a estes rocket motor?

Bandit


SofaKing
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Posts: 392
From: YEAH RIGHT !!
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 04, 2001 01:28 PM
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First peanut butter is the best mouse bait.
Second in the PMJB Kurt has an idea to used blobs of NI3 to scare the mice away, I think it would work.


Donutty
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Posts: 223
From: UK
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 04, 2001 05:26 PM
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I've had a similar 'landmine' solution to my rat problem. There is a good LOS to where the rats eat, so I figured simply placing about 250g of electrically ignited AP under there would do the trick. Although, er, it may blow my windows out.


PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1474
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 04, 2001 06:12 PM
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the rats in my barn kept chewing through the drywall, so I took some old steak& fillet knives and put them in slots in a piece of plywood, epoxyed them in place and held it above the corner of the room with macromay string and put that in front of their hole and one actually chewed through the cord and got impailed by the knives! I had to use a stick to get it off the knives, but now they dont fall for this trap anymore!


blackadder
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Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 04, 2001 06:25 PM
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The bad thing about making landmines for mice, is that you will get mouse guts all over the place. The whole place will stink to high heaven, also it will attract cockaroaches, etc.
You could put some poison on the cheese, but then again, that's just like rat poison.


Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2312
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 04, 2001 06:40 PM
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Claymores!
Ok, so blowing them up - stinks, frying them with electricity - stinks, poison - don't work, falling knives - only works once

The best option would be to lay some bait and sit there with your air rifle waiting for it.


MacCleod
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Posts: 215
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 04, 2001 07:20 PM
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I used to shoot 'em with .22 birdshot in my parent's barn;if you sit still long enough, they'll walk right buy you.If you do opt to blast them,you could use two thin metal discs with AP/ground glass in between them,set where the arm will hit when it's released.As long as the mouse's head didn't get in the way it would work great.Although,it'd be dangerous as hell setting the trap!.
[This message has been edited by MacCleod (edited February 04, 2001).]


PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1474
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 04, 2001 08:40 PM
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hey how about makng a deadfall with like sulfurc acid at the bottom? just pour out the mess in the woods.


BaDSeeD
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Posts: 80
From: buffalo, ny
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 05, 2001 12:44 AM
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lol
I'm suprised anyone remembered that topic..lol

And your right.. mice don't like cheese.. cats actually do. Mice like peanut butter, rats like dog food, and dogs like cat food. Go figure.

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BaDSeeD
Knowledge is the true power, ignorrance will bring your demise.


ST
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Posts: 100
From: 000
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 05, 2001 01:31 AM
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A "deadfall" by definition is a trap that uses a heavy weight to fall on target, "pitfall" is what your after.
Someone i used to know used to have fun by chucking mice in sulphuric acid... they swim around and bubble and stuff, He also used to catch birds and cut their legs off with pliers then let them go.. sick in the head.


MacCleod
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Posts: 215
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 05, 2001 01:42 AM
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If I had a friend like that,I'd take him target shooting."Here,Mike,hold this target for me".


PYRO500
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Posts: 1474
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 05, 2001 04:45 PM
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dead fall is also a pit that has something in the bottom to kill whatever falls in it, a pitfall kills by the creature falling. in an example when I wnt to canada I had to watchout for deadfalls trappers used to kill bears, they were pits coverd in nets, and leaves that looked like the ground and they had bamboo (not sure, but I think it was) stalks that were cut at the tip to look sorta like injection needles and I almost fell in one.


kingspaz
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Posts: 348
From: UK
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 05, 2001 05:04 PM
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thanx guys.
does anyone have any ideas about a trap that doesn't use electronic ignition?


CragHack
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Posts: 606
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 05, 2001 05:32 PM
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you will not be able to use the weight of a mouse to set off a primer or anything, they don't weigh enough to do that. you could however make it so when the trap goes off, the thing that is going to decapatate the mouse crashed into a bb which is attached to a primer... that might work.
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...Æ


Anthony
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Posts: 2312
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 05, 2001 06:26 PM
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It's amazing what some people can do to innocent animals for fun, it's even more amazing to think that people can also do that kind of thing to humans for fun.
Pyro500 - surely traps like the one you nearly fell in are illegal???


PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1474
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 05, 2001 06:54 PM
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I assume so, but they are everywhere in the canadian wilderness, esp near peoples cabins, I guess to protect from bears but I dont really know if you have ever seen the crappy movie the beach the thing he makes is sorta like a dead fall except they are like 6 foot deep minimum and have BIG spikes at the bottom


hodehum
A new voice
Posts: 21
From: New Zealand
Registered: FEB 2001
posted February 06, 2001 04:52 AM
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Take a nail or tack and attach it to the corner of the lever that would usally hit the mouse, next take a 12g shotgun shell remove the shot, wad, and then very carfuly remove the nylon outer casing by sawing it off or by whatever means you think is safe, so all you have is the metal charge part, then place the 12g charge on the corner of the wooden board where the nail would strike and carfully align the nail wtih the 12g primer, so that when the trap is set off the nail will strike the primer.
this mave not have enough power to blow mouse entrails all over your shed by its self but you could always put another HE charge near/under the 12g primer


BoB-
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From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 10, 2001 06:24 PM
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oops, I dont want to post that, please delete.
[This message has been edited by BoB- (edited February 10, 2001).]


MacCleod
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Posts: 215
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 11, 2001 12:32 AM
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I've been wondering if rats/mice would shy away from the scent of AP(?).If not,you could mold some AP putty around the entire outer edge of the trap,then rig the arm(?-whatever you call the part that squashes the mouse!)with a striker or B-B/primer assembly that would ignite the putty when tripped.


cdg3851
A new voice
Posts: 3
From: cuntzvill
Registered: FEB 2001
posted February 11, 2001 02:21 AM
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just wondering, why blow up the mouse when you can slowly toture it to a painful death. make a trap that will catch it alive, and then have fun....i know i know...i do need to see a phychologist...i need help
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---I am bored! If i am being lame, please tell me to shut up---James---


PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1474
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 11, 2001 02:50 AM
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if you think that is fun you are fucked in the head and what is with your name? this isnt irc


Crux
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Posts: 71
From: australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 11, 2001 03:18 AM
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what we use to trap mice in our grain shead is get a large garbage bin attach a piece off wood across the top and tyr a bit of roap so it dangels into the bin about 1/2 way tie the food/bait to the end of the roap then coat about half the roap with grease/oil and fill the bin up with water.
what happends is the mice smell the food, climb down the rope to get it, slip on the oil, fall into water and drown.
if you want the mice dont add water we did this with a steal bin with no water to catch the mice we had 1/2 the bin full of mice/ rats and took them to school on muck up day and let them go in the hall after blocking all the doors so thay cant get out so when some one went in there were mice eveywhere.

[smokey]

if your going to use ap put some crushed peanuts in it and they wont give a shit

[xyz]

I once considered a mouse trap that had a large capacitor bank with one terminal connected to a sheet of aluminium foil and the other terminal connected to a nail (smeared with peanut butter) that was suspended about 5cm above the foil.

The mouse has to stand on the foil to reach the peanut butter and when it touches the nail...ZzZAP!

[zeocrash]

how about a pitfall of pirahna fluid (conc H₂SO₄ and Conc H₂O₂, iirc)
or a more humane way, how about a mouse sized gas chamber, using something like HCN. this could be done by using one of the cage traps, and setting up the door so that closing the door will knock some NaCN into some acid and produce HCN.
(if you really loved mice you could replace this with something like chloroform or N₂O, to anesthetise the mouse to be released far away or kept in a jar for fun)

finaly there is the biological option of introducing a predator to the enviroment, the predator eats the mouse, the mouse is gone, the predator has no food, it dies and all animals are gone from your shed. (its hard to create an equilibrium between predators and prey, when you have only one of each)

[blazter]

This thread reminds me of a story I heard about where someone built a "mouse trap" using a furnace transformer and some wiring. They told me that they they had two plates set up which were just further apart than the arc length was. Apparently, it was very effective because when checked the next day all that was left of the mouse was a tail and a really bad smell!

[simply RED]

I've made cat "traps" with explosives for fun. 200 grams amonal is placed near a piece of meat. The cat comes to eat the meat and you push the switch setting off the explosive from 50 meters. The bad thing is that pieces from the cat can fly up to 30-40 meters. I even found one piece about 50 meters from the "site". It was splashed on the window of my vila...

<small>[ March 06, 2003, 05:19 AM: Message edited by: simply RED ]</small>

[john_smith]

The best switch for explosive mouse traps I've found so far is two pieces of tinfoil (for contacts) separated by tiny rocks or whatever small non-conductive objects you happen to have handy. Bait is placed on the upper sheet directly over an insulator, or somewhere the rat can only reach it by going over the switch. Has always worked fine, yet, as I generally used crap like big firecrackers, the little fuckers often survived the blast or made it to their holes before going belly up. Talk about stink...

<small>[ March 06, 2003, 09:21 AM: Message edited by: john_smith ]</small>

[VX]

I was thinking of doing something like this this coming summer but with pigeons (disgusting, useless, flying rats.) I was thinking of making several moderately sized charges of something cheap like ANAP. Wiring them up for electrical ignition, pouring on some crisps/ old bread/ sandwiches etc, and sitting back detonating them as and when the birds start eating. I’m thinking of having about 5-10 active charges at anyone time, about 5 meters apart.

They are so stupid and there is so many of them that we could have weeks of fun doing this! I’m still thinking of actually making an automated system (using a very basic motion detector, not sure yet) if I have the time I will. I’m sure that I have the bits needed lying around anyway, so money isn't an issue. However the problem would be that you can't choose which animals you blow up with an automatic system. And people would moan if I blew their pet/ child/ grandfather up :D

[ossassin]

I've never made exploding mousetraps, but I've made mousetraps that act as triggers for a detonator. Just wrap the wood part in aluminum foil, and attach wires to this and the metal bar. This only worked, because the mouse kept setting it off, but never actually got caught in it. :mad: I'm sure that you could rig something very similar that would work if the mouse actually got caught, though.

(Is my signature too long? If it is, I'll change it. Different people are using different resolutions, which makes it hard to tell.)

<small>[ March 06, 2003, 05:52 PM: Message edited by: ossassin ]</small>

[xyz]

VX, I would use a small claymore type device (or several) to kill the pigeons. Just put some bread on the ground and set some little claymores up so that they are all facing the bread. Then detonate them electrically when there are pigeons there.

You can make a nice little claymore device from a matchbox filled with AP, taped onto a second matchbox filled with lead shot or other shrapnel. That should ventilate a few pigeons :) .

Ossassin, Your sig looks fine to me and I use 1024x768 resolution, the same as most people.

[HMnO4]

Along the lines of .22 birdshot - I uploaded a diagram to my server I made of an effective 'trap'. You just might get a kick out of it... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

<a href="http://www.radi0activ.com/rbg.html" target="_blank">Rodent B Gone</a> :D

Another possible and even more interesting variation would be to have the bullet underneath the rodent upon firing...
Think about it!

[xyz]

An even more "interesting" one would be to replace that .22 with a 12ga shotshell...

Hmmm... What about one that fires the rodent?
The mouse/rat goes down a carboard/pvc tube because it can smell peanut butter at the other end. It then it triggers either a solenoid valve to release pressurized air, or a small charge of BP, Flash, or NC.

The tube is aimed toward an open window that faces the neighbors house :D .

<small>[ March 08, 2003, 08:41 AM: Message edited by: xyz ]</small>

[VX]

Ah... now that I have been thinking about (when we were going to do it with rats instead of pigeons). Obviously the small charge would have to be a large one, as going overkill is always more funny as long as it is 'safe' to do so. We were going to use a length of scaffolding bar (about 50cm long) buried under the ground at an angle, the charge was then going to launce the rat at a wall.

I may still try this, but the pigeon idea definitely gets priority... mainly because I’ve never seen a rat around the area that we are going to do it so we could be waiting for a long time to blow a rat up. Shame we can't just do it in the town center :D . Plenty of both rats and pigeons there.

[HMnO4]

I think a 12 guage shell will destroy the apparatus because of the amount of recoil. I originally planned this to work for mice, but now that I think more, you could use this as a tripwire boobytrap.

Staying on topic now, you could drill simular holes "side by each" and add more solder balls to the "snapper", just to make sure the rodent B gone...
:cool:

[xyz]

VX, You could set up a target on the wall that they were to be fired at, or you could use a board that had lots of spikes on it.

[smokey]

well , why not build a micro-nuke then get a rc minature car then you could equip it with a minature tv camera and get into the rats warren and do a hiroshima on them!!! gentlemen \! i think that this thread is going to shit.
it is a non scientific fact that the best thing to catch a rat is in fact a rat trap there is a world of diference between a bit of fun and warped sadism :confused:

And who the hell asked you for your opinion of the value of this thread? Especially when it is clear that you are immature, ill-informed and full of shit.

<small>[ March 10, 2003, 05:00 PM: Message edited by: Anthony ]</small>

[HMnO4]

Haha... I like that idea of shooting a mouse at a board of (rusty) nails.

Does everything always have to be completely serious? I think this topic is great, and it could open up minds to bigger ideas.

[xyz]

I agree with HMnO4, this topic does make people come up with some "interesting" ideas. Not that anyone would do any of the things that we've discussed, would they :confused: ...

[Anthony]

It does amaze me the extent people will go to deal with a simple mouse problem :D

The mouse-canon is an excellent idea! If automatically reloading (CO2 bottle/small compressor) it woul be a credible rodent control device. If used outdoors, or fired through and open window then it'd be less than lethal. I.e. technically less violent/objectionable than a conventional trap.

Obviously it'd be far more expensive and impractical than a regular trap, but I'm sure many people with an odd sense of humour would pay out for a commercial version :)

[kingspaz]

xyz, i did actually consider making the trap and would have made it if i'd been capable of a decent design. i wasn;t too good with engineering things our of nothing back then...a whole 2 years ago!

[static_firefly]

I though of something simmler but i had the idea of a catapult and maybe even a bulls eye in the wall. A razor blade on the arm maybe?

Mice are so smart, i had a mouse problem for a while and after about 4 mice they dont cath anymore the mice get right past em. I used pumpkin seeds because you can really stick them on and they wont come off.

[kingspaz]

bread seems to work quite well. a nice crusty piece that'll fit on the trap well.

[xyz]

A blob of peanut butter is the best bait in my opinion. Bacon, apple, bread, seeds, and nuts all work well. Mice do like cheese to some extent but it is generally better to use one of the above baits.

[Flake2m]

The best mouse catcher is a predetor such as a cat.
But I ain't giving you my cat to fix a mouse problem.

I had an idea on electrocuting a mouse.
get a panel of wood about 15cm x 15 cm. Then hammer in a nail for every square cm of the board, but only allow the nails to just poke through the surface of the wood. Also leave a small area in the middle of the board for the bait.
You then have to wire up the board. Just have the wires arranged so one row is positive and the other is negetive. You could then wire this to a transformer or some capacitors.

The theroy is, the mouse walks over the board wanting food and is electrocuted. You could also use the board for absolutly shocking pranks too.

[xyz]

I have alrady posted a design for a shocker trap which would probably work better. However, my idea might be more "suspicious" to the mouse and the nails one seem to be a good idea if you are facing a particularly clever and persistent mouse.

[WogBoy]

I am doing Systems and Technology at school (the Aus version of ?college? shop)

i have built a mouse "buzzer", basically it is an electronics 'breadboard', with wires going across the thing
- Negative wire
+ Positive wire



+ve battery terminal (or wall adapter to ~12 volts)
+
+ ------------------------------
++++++++++++++++++ -
+ ------------------------------
++++++++++++++++++ -
+ ------------------------------
-
| fuse/light bulb (something to take the current when the mouse trigger the thing
-ve battery terminal/wall adapter



the mouse steps on two opposite currents, and bzzzzz
bye bye mouse, or the cat gets a hot meal

[WogBoy]

ok, so the diagram looks crap, but it looked different before

[xyz]

Use the edit button instead of double posting please. Only double post if it is something very important that might be missed by others if you just edited your post.

[Anthony]

Err, 12v...?

[McGuyver]

Yes, the mouse will get a free dinner using only 12 volts. Car batteries are not dangerous!!!! You can go out to your car right now, put one finger on one terminal and another finger on the other terminal and you won't even feel a tingle. Your skin has too much resistance. Now, if you could get your tongue across the terminals that would be a different story. If I wanted to get rid of mice electrically, I would use a 10,000 volt oil burner transformer. They make a spark about 1 inch long and will easily kill a mouse. Also, be careful because they can also be lethal to humans if you are grounded properly. Now, it is much more dangerous but if you want to fry the shit out of the mice get a microwave transformer. The output for them is 1,000 volts at 1 amp. They produce a very hot spark and the mouse will most likely catch on fire. This transformer also makes a spark about an inch long. The oil burner transformers can be found at air conditioner repair shops usually for free and even they will probably light the poor mouse. The microwave transformer could easily kill 10 humans at the same time properly grounded or not, so use caution.

[xyz]

You could also just use a capacitor bank (a Large bank of pulse caps if you're really nasty :) ) as this can provide massive voltages/currents but It only lasts for a short time so there is no risk of fires, electrical shorts, etc.

I would wire your caps in series to get at least 1000v (they already have an OK current output)/

[bubbling_beaker]

Hey,
a small tesla coil could be built near whatever you dont want the rodents to be near ....
but this wouldnt be a very efficient method but it will be fun to watch..try putting a cam
or somthing

[McGuyver]

Sorry to lay it on you man, but tesla coil operation, even a small one, makes quite a bit of noise. You know the large discharge in the air. Mice probably wouldn't be too fond of minature lightning.:rolleyes:

[Nevermore]

My granpa gave me an idea about pigeon contro..
He used to soak some dry corn seeds, wheat seeds and rice in vodka or alcohol..
then mix with a small amount of other seeds and put on the street..
the pigeon goes to eat, then since his metabolism is far faster than human gets drunk fast and can't fly..
then you crush him with a baseball bat..
easy, cheap, fast...

[Bryan]

I put NI3 in bird seed, but this is getting a little off topic...

bryan

[Thomas[NL]]

A baseballbat huh?

Eeeeeww blood and guts and feather all over your bat. And on the ground of course, yuk!

How about capturing them with a net on a stick and then dumping them in a barrel with a lid on top. Once you've got enough you can just stick a waterhose under the lid and drown m all. Works fine here.

You've got the added advantage of being able to torture them or test stuff on them (in case you're one of those weirdos)

[yt2095]

Imagine a swing top trash can with food as bait on the lid and a plank of wood leading up to the lid, the rat steps on to get the food and falls in.
Rats by nature won`t need the bait after one of them is trapped, they`ll all try and go to the "rescue" and fall in as well.
it`s up to you what you do with your can of rats after YUCK!

EDIT: maybe you could sell them to Snake owners?

[kingspaz]

'it`s up to you what you do with your can of rats after YUCK'

its like shooting fish in a barrel :D ;)

[warren]

Anyways back to the topic, my mouse trap wan't exploding but it went bang to tell us when we got a mouse I tied one of those pull string fireworks to it I had to cut the string to just the right length, so when the arm that smacked the mouse went down it would go bang as well (no point in it really but I was bored so I decided to put some pull stirng on mouse traps).

[Kid Orgo]

As long as warren went through the trouble of digging up this old topic,

I'd like to say that ferrets make better ratters than cats do in some situations. They can fit into all kinds of nooks and crannies a cat can't, plus ferrets are much more fun as pets.

No explosives neccesary, and you save on ferret food.

[Blackhawk]

Hah, I'd much preffer the non-violent options myself, I dont see anything particularly bad about mice (as long as they stay well away from anything I want), Now people, they're another matter entirely. It would be funny launching the mice into someone elses window :D

[Cyclonite]

Hmm you could buy a cheap stungun and modify the trigger for contact. Take a couple nails and nail them a little over the width of the rodents head place bait in the slightly in front of it so the rodents head will be between the nails when the bait is grabbed. Place by the bait a small nail with a loose spring around it and attach the switch. Place the bait so if it moves the sligtest bit the spring will knock against the small nail providing a complete circuit. The rodents head will have a nice zap of voltage. It may kill it, iv killed small lizards and very large bugs with a 600,000 volt stun gun, if not it will knock it out

[neo-crossbow]

Closest I have come to this is using a mouse trap as a switch. Reminds me of that movie with the 2 brothers, the string factory and the mouse in the house.

Mouse hunt?

[Cyclonite]

I have another idea as well. Take an ABS pipe about 1ft+ long and the diameter of the offending rodent. Close of one end and bait it after installing a hanging switch that will activate when the rodent crawls down the tube. Put a small powder charge in the bottom and have it aimed at a board with some nails pounded through it. This can be enclosed for sanitary reasons. There are many variations possible.

[drfish]

For bait, what we used when keeping an area mouse free was part of my job description was chunks of apple dipped in peanut butter. They love the peanut butter, but if you just put it on the trap the little guys will just lick it off without triggering it. Give them a chunk of something to get their teeth into an yank at.

[Jacks Complete]

^-- Another use for a mousetrap. From an old Popular Mechanics.