Ammunition in Australia

[ChippedHammer]

I've had a decent look around yet I keep finding conflicting information.

What are the legal requirements to buy handgun and rifle ammunition in Australia?

Does it vary state to state (I'm in NSW) or is it federal?


Cheers

[Hightimes]

What do you mean legal requirements?, like can you buy ammo without a licence ? nope sadly. http://www.afp.gov.au/act/firearms/faq.html

[irish]

It varies from State to State but in general you will need to have a shooters licence to buy or possess any ammo. Cat.A only licence you will not be able to buy centerfire rifle ammo and to buy pistol ammo you will need an "H" licence, the exeption is stuff that is commonly used in leverguns, .38Special, 357Mag, .44Mag etc. and that can be bought on a "B" licence (the licence that EVERY Australian who can should have, the more of us there is the harder it it for "them" to take away the firearms we are still allowed).

[ChippedHammer]

Fucking stupid laws, I envy you Americans seeing as you can mail order a pallet of ammo with just a drivers liscense :(

From what I can tell you legally need a liscense but thats often overlooked, so I guess if you are confident and don't stand out like a sore thumb you have a chance.

Just like buying exotic lab chemicals, act like you know what the fuck you are doing and saying, if you get into trouble don't say anything stupid and gtfo :)

[lucas]

(I worked in a gun shop until recently)

Ammunition in Australia in every state is essentially the same thing.
Ammunition includes:

Loaded cartridges.
Air pellets. (YES FOR REAL IT DOES INCLUDE THESE. I CANT SELL THEM TO ANYONE WITHOUT A LICENCE)
Powders.
Primers.

Does not include:
Unprimed brass.
Projectiles.

If one asks for pellets or cartridges in any gun shop one will be asked for a licence which enables the person to own a gun that fires the relevant ammunition. As was already stated in a previous post, a licence for an A class gun allows one to buy only ammo that an A class gun fires etc.

Classes are as follows. (only A and B are easy to get, H is harder, C is rare and D VERY rare.)

A: Rim-fire .22 rifles (not self loading); Single and double barrel shotguns; Air-rifles

B: Centre-fire rifles (not self loading); muzzle loading rifles; combination guns; anything not included in other categories.

C: Pump action and self-loading shotguns with up to 5 round magazines; self-loading rim-fire .22 rifles with up to 10 round magazine.

D: Self-loading centre-fire rifles; pump action and self-loading shotgunt greater than 5 round magazine; rim-fire .22 rifles greater than 10 round magazine.

H: handguns.

Prescribed weapons: machine guns, select fire weapons, sawn off and home made guns, disguised firearms. More.
Nobody is allowed a prescribed gun :( many tears

For a stupid reason .177 rim-fire is class B. The stupid reason is that it isn't .22 rim-fire as the legislation says. :(

Legislation is similar but not identical state to state. It was publicised by the government that the new laws would be national in 1996, but that was not true. For instance, a Victorian can buy a gun in South Australia but a South Australian cannot buy a gun in Victoria.

The only loophole is that nearly no gun shop checks for a licence for powder and primers although strictly they should. If one can buy those without problem then it means one can then use them to assemble one's own cartridges with one's own brass and projectiles which are legal to buy without a licence. The press, dies and other accessories for loading are unregulated.

A cheap set of reloading gear costs $225 plus dies $50 plus shell-holder $15. You should be able to get the equipment for $300 if you only buy crap like Lee parts. RCBS, Lyman, etc will cost more because it's good.

If you are intending to buy powder, know what type you want, because then you will be served. If you don't know what powder you need you will seem suspicious then you may be asked for a licence. DON'T load ammo with the wrong powder, it IS dangerous if you don't read a reloading book first.

Don't ask for large rifle primers and AS-30N powder, you will get a very strange look from the staff.

[a3990918]

I'm asking this regarding another thread. Oz seems to have some of the stricter ammo laws :confused:so what I want to know is: Spent rounds and/or factory blanks (live or spent) that cant be easily converted to a usable round(aka the long nose .308 blanks for the M-60). Do they fall under the same strict guidelines or are they easy to get? Thanks...

[lucas]

Fired cartridges are not controlled. If you visit a shooting range you can take home the used cartridges, but not any live ones unfired. Blanks for starter guns are freely available, as are blanks for replica guns. (Actually they're in short supply in many areas, but that's a supply issue not a legal one.)

I think blanks are not counted as ammo, I read the local firearms act and it doesnt mention blanks in the description of ammunition, so I believe them fine. Certainly I'd expect them to be fine, but a shopkeeper may ask, what theyre being used for if you order in .308 or .223 blanks. Not many people ask for them. At the shopkeeper's discresion they may ask for a licence even is not required to.

As for easy to get, I doubt it. I doubt that ADI, which I assume makes the blanks the army uses for training, sells them much to retailers. Raytrade is the distributer for other ADI products so one could call them and ask. (03) 9706 5936

ADI Makes the F3 blank in 5.56 but I dont know if they make a .308 blank.
http://www.adi-limited.com/site.asp?page=190

[a3990918]

Fired cartridges are not controlled. If you visit a shooting range you can take home the used cartridges, but not any live ones unfired. Blanks for starter guns are freely available, as are blanks for replica guns. (Actually they're in short supply in many areas, but that's a supply issue not a legal one.)


ADI Makes the F3 blank in 5.56 but I dont know if they make a .308 blank.
http://www.adi-limited.com/site.asp?page=190


Was just curious about the .308 and/or 30-06 for use as a low powered, low cost .44 Auto-Mag knock-off for improvised firearms in restricted areas.

[ChippedHammer]

Only problem is that you cant roll your own .22LR, I imagine they would be less stringent if your only buying a brick or two or .22LR.

[fiknet]

From what I can tell you legally need a liscense but thats often overlooked, so I guess if you are confident and don't stand out like a sore thumb you have a chance.

Backing up what lucas said I can attest that this doesn't work, my dad who is a middle age man and doesn't look like a dodgy teenager went into a local store and calmly asked for some .177 pellets, the lady got them out then asked him for his license, which was a bit of an awkward situation :p

[ChippedHammer]

Its a bit sad that its easier for Joe Average to fill his car boot with IED's and take a trip to the local shopping mall than it is to buy some airgun pellets.


And to think that the sheeple out there think they are safer with these shitty laws :(

[Charles Owlen Picket]

Of Commonwealth countries that had little Gun control, South Africa became a non-entity and we all KNOW what happened to Rhodesia. Australia followed Britannia's lead on that and pulled most all the rights the people had. I haven't kept up with New Zealand (other that Rugby) on what they been doing. I don't think they went as far as Aus.
Except the Parliamentary system of government, Australia is very similar to the USA and has been beside one another through all the conflicts in the last hundred years. The histories are somewhat similar but there appears to be more Leftists there [in positions of power as well].

I am astounded how the people gave up their firearms when the school shooting tragedy occurred some dozen years back or so. Many people spoke out but the laws were rammed through and now Australia is close to the UK in strict gun laws. Once a law is enacted it's very difficult to dismantle it. That's why the USA has limits ("Sunsets") on certain legislation.

In truth, has it made the country safer? I noticed that when that crazy with a sword was in the news, some Australians rallied for laws against swords and in Scotland, they actually have "knife laws" instituted in the last few years to cope with street crime. Scotland certainly has no less street violence.

[mike-hunt]

With shop bought brass and projectiles, and homemade black powder it may be possible to hand load ammo using primers from blank rounds. This is if removing the primers with the correct reloading tools doesn't destroy the primer. I am hoping someone with hand loading experience can correct me on this if I have it wrong. This method would work out expensive and time consuming but it would not require a shooters license.

Reloading supplies are available online at Horsley Park gun shop.
Http://hpgs.netmerchant.com.au/?main=

[Charles Owlen Picket]

Note that BP will drop your pressures to a bear minimum. HOWEVER...that may be a good thing with a home-made weapon. While some cartridges would do fine with BP (older designs like the .38 used in revolvers, etc)some would not (newer designs in auto pistols, such as the 10mm). Loading with BP would function just fine in terms of bullet propulsion. Building enough pressure to cycle a slide may be problematic.

[shady mutha]

In my town we have a gun club that lets anyone off the street 'rent' a gun, ammo and a lane( fully supervised). You watch a safety video and off you go.
You walk in tell the staff you want to shoot a 100 rounds from a glock or whatever, they give you the 100 rounds and 5 or 6 mags and lock you in the range area.
From here you pocket a few rounds and thats it. Expensive way to do it but it all depends how much you need the ammo.

[a3990918]

Loading with BP would function just fine in terms of bullet propulsion. Building enough pressure to cycle a slide may be problematic.

Even if you did get the slide to cycle properly, I would think that after just a few BP rounds that you would start to see problems with fouling of the moving parts from the BP residue?? :(:( Wouldn't want to use unless as a last ditch effort and then thoroughly clean afterwards.

[Code Red]

Ammunition casings (brass) can easily be purchased through eBay, as it is inert, non explosive, and shouldn't upset the "too much time on their hands" eBay police.

Most rifle/pistol ranges reload their own ammo for sale, so being caught taking shells would be frowned apon! Do it discreetly!

[mike-hunt]

This may be getting a little of the original topic it may be of some help to those needing ammo with out the inconvenience of obtaining a license or dealing with the scum bags at the local pub. Its a recipe for a sulfur less black powder that may be useful for reloading. I have searched for the burn rates of commercial reloading powders for comparison but could only find tables listing them from fastest to slowest not in meters per second .as this formula contains no sulfur it should be less corrosive to the gun although the amount of total residues may remain unknown until I can do a comparison or various powders from a safe distance.

Complete recipe and original post by OEZO here.
Http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?t=534&highlight=sulfer+black+powder

Sulferless Black Powder

Explosive Type: Low
Burn Rate: 1200m/s max
Consistency: Dry gray or black powder
Deflag Temp: Approx. 300 degrees Celcius

Chemicals Required:

Potassium Nitrate/Sodium Nitrate (powdered)7.5 units by weight
Wood charcoal (powdered) 2 units by weight

[iHME]

I have a book about black powder manufacture for use in firearms. It makes note on burn rates in m/s. I'll upload it whem I get home.

[a3990918]

This may be getting a little of the original topic it may be of some help to those needing ammo.

After reading the linked post it seems that this mixture does not produce enough gas to be an effective propellant for re-loading(Not that under certain circumstances it couldn't be used, just not as effective as normal sulfer based BP)
Of course it's ease of ignition and low pressure would make it suitable for improvied zip/pipe guns that are constructed of questionable materials.

[Charles Owlen Picket]

If an interested Australian went on a trip to the USA and spent some time in MONTANA; spent some time in the gun shops there.....could he mail his goods home? Of the "less restrictive" states, Wyoming & Montana are a great deal of fun...

[mike-hunt]

Mailing gun parts into Australia is extremely risky 100% of mail is x-rayed. packages sent by courier about 1/3 rd are x-rayed . The Australian customs spends a lot of time and money on trying to keep gun parts out they still however get in. when traveling to S.E Asia I have smuggled small metal parts out in my luggage simply by placing them in my checked luggage then transferring them from the luggage to my pocket inside a plastic ticket wallet after picking it up at arrival in Australia. baggage is x-rayed on exit but there is no metal detector to walk threw . I wouldn't try it with any thing illegal to export Life in a S.E Asian prison wouldn't be fun. The chances of getting ammo through is not worth the risk. I have also considered mail ordering short lengths of gun barrel from the US mainland to Hawaii and posting them home from there with a bolt through them barrings on ether end and labeled motorcycle parts . If you are inventive it would be possible to get most parts through remember though you cant hide parts from x-ray simply by placing them into a metal container.

[ChippedHammer]

Metal gun parts can be imported - it just costs a lot of money. Fill a large box with car or bike parts and slip a single firearms part in. It will get x-rayed and will pass, although getting a whole frame through wont be as easy. A bolt or slide wont stand out in a box of thousands of diffrent parts but a handgun frame will. This is where the CNC mill comes in, make what you cannot import :)

http://cncguns.com/

[fiknet]

Also to improve your chances on importing illegal things someone mentioned to do it around Christmas time as they will have the mammoth task of keeping up with the sudden influx of mail and will not be as thorougher in checking packages to get them through quickly as possible.

edit:
Ammunition casings (brass) can easily be purchased through eBay, as it is inert, non explosive, and shouldn't upset the "too much time on their hands" eBay police.

Most rifle/pistol ranges reload their own ammo for sale, so being caught taking shells would be frowned apon! Do it discreetly!
Also I vaguely remember the range master telling me it is illegal to possess centerfire cartridges without a license, they don't however, mind you taking the .22 rimfire.

[ChippedHammer]

Possession of ammunition without a liscense is an offense, there are no laws restricting brass.

http://www.oztion.com.au/buy/auction.aspx?itemid=3872656&d=&sort=0&pg=1&cat=1637&view=List&f1=&f2=&type2=&type3=&type4=&type5=&s=

[Code Red]

Also I vaguely remember the range master telling me it is illegal to possess centerfire cartridges without a license, they don't however, mind you taking the .22 rimfire.



Owning or having in possesion "brass" or expired ammunition is not illegal, and carries no offence. It is plain old brass afterall!

Same goes with owning a rifle/pistol barrel... nothing illegal there, less dangerous than a baseball bat!

Sure, if the pigs were to find a barrel or spent shells in your possession they'd suspect some kind of wrong doings... but legally, they couldn't do jackshit!

[lucas]

Pre-'96 the laws covering registration of firearms was quite varied. In NSW it was required that one possess a licence to buy a gun, but it wasn't necessary to register that gun. Victoria and SA required licensing and registration. In most states a receiver constituted a gun and the serial number had to be stamped on the receiver. In Tasmania the barrel constituted a gun, but the receiver did not. That meant that one could buy a barrel in NSW and a receiver in Tasmania and the whole firearm didn't need a licence to be acquired. These days the receiver is the part that must be stamped with a serial number and constitutes a gun in all stated and territories. Barrels aren't strictly controlled under most states' laws.

It was because they didn't have to register their rifles in NSW that they could bury them and get away with it during the buy-back.