zaibatsu
March 6th, 2003, 03:07 PM
The Real
Frequent Poster
Posts: 136
From: Columbus, OH
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 18, 2001 12:29 PM
I had a conversation with a US Army EOD personnel. He told me that many missiles and even projectiles are detonated electrically. Some warhead carry piezoelectric material. This material will produce a DC field with varying temperature changes as well as applied structural force. The warheads that use them operate like this: On impact the piezomaterial is crushed creating a DC field, like a charged capacitor. This in turn creates a flow of voltage through the detonators circuit and detonates the bomb. Pretty neat idea. I'm wondering how much piezomaterial costs (the military uses ceramics) and if anyone knows more about it. I'm defintely looking more into it.
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1466
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 18, 2001 01:24 PM
piezoelectrics are used everywhere, barbcue sparkers, those gold discs at radio shack that are like tiny speakers (piezoelectric materials are transducers, both ways)and sonar panels, humidifyiers, etc. they are everywhere
J
Moderator
Posts: 602
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 18, 2001 01:31 PM
You could try one of those electronic cig lighters. I've never taken the piezo mechanism apart, but I'm sure something could be made of it. You could try several crystals in one device.
J
------------------
"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman
vehemt
Frequent Poster
Posts: 580
From: Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 18, 2001 02:19 PM
Get an aim and flame (bbq lighter) from a dollar store or get the cheapest one you can from a hardware store. Open it up and you will be rewarded with a nice durable(unlike the cigarette lighter units) piezo electric unit.
These suckers use quartz I believe.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 18, 2001 07:37 PM
You won't be able to set off a regular electric ignitor with a pieze gas lighter because the current is tiny. Maybe if you passed the spark through soemthing very sensitive to static like AP it would work. I know AP is sensitive to a spark from a stun gun, I'll have to try with a pieze ignitor.
The Real
Frequent Poster
Posts: 136
From: Columbus, OH
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 19, 2001 12:54 AM
I don't think quartz is used in this application though I know it is a piezomaterial. It's a ceramic disk, not thin like a piezo buzzers, that is crushed on impact. The voltage is plenty with a lighter igniter but the current isn't there. The time of application probably isn't there either.
BTW the discs he said looked like donuts or cylinders, exact dimensions were never given though, but from pics on the net I'm gonna guess the discs are over 1" thick and 1-3" diameter. I also think the amnt of wattage produced is directly proportional to the force applies.
[This message has been edited by The Real (edited February 19, 2001).]
shooter2
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Posts: 56
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted February 19, 2001 08:31 AM
About 30 years ago,I read that one of the materials used to fire Bazooka warheads was Glaubers Salt (SP?). Which is Ammonium Nitrate. You have to grow large crystals of it, and after attaching the leads you must give it a water proof covering(varnish?). Ahh... the versitile A.N.!
(Glauber's Salt in NOT ammonium nitrate, it's Sodium Sulphate (Na2SO4). I did a web search to see if I could find any reference to sodium sulphate being a piezo material but found none. Probably means it isn't. NBK2000)
[This message has been edited by nbk2000 (edited February 19, 2001).]
vehemt
Frequent Poster
Posts: 580
From: Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 19, 2001 02:44 PM
I was reffering to the quartz content in the lighters ignitor.
Applying this technology to a "home made" missile/projectile doesnt seem too practical too me anyways. A mechanical or electronic sensor system would seem much more practical.
The Real
Frequent Poster
Posts: 136
From: Columbus, OH
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 19, 2001 09:19 PM
In terms of weight I think the idea would be very practical, depending on cost of course. It would also mean less components and in turn less chances for failures.
vehemt
Frequent Poster
Posts: 580
From: Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 20, 2001 12:22 AM
Problem is, the material needs to be machined rather precisely, you will spend a LOT of time developing a way to implement it, and will very likely not be cheap.
shooter2
Frequent Poster
Posts: 56
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted February 20, 2001 05:37 AM
nkb, Of course you are right. I'm suffering from info. over load. The correct material is called ROCHELLE SALT. I think the crystals are easy to grow from CREAM OF TARTAR. They must be moisture proofed after attaching electrodes.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 20, 2001 10:13 AM
What's wrong with a battery and a push switch? It'd be SO much simpler!
Frequent Poster
Posts: 136
From: Columbus, OH
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 18, 2001 12:29 PM
I had a conversation with a US Army EOD personnel. He told me that many missiles and even projectiles are detonated electrically. Some warhead carry piezoelectric material. This material will produce a DC field with varying temperature changes as well as applied structural force. The warheads that use them operate like this: On impact the piezomaterial is crushed creating a DC field, like a charged capacitor. This in turn creates a flow of voltage through the detonators circuit and detonates the bomb. Pretty neat idea. I'm wondering how much piezomaterial costs (the military uses ceramics) and if anyone knows more about it. I'm defintely looking more into it.
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1466
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 18, 2001 01:24 PM
piezoelectrics are used everywhere, barbcue sparkers, those gold discs at radio shack that are like tiny speakers (piezoelectric materials are transducers, both ways)and sonar panels, humidifyiers, etc. they are everywhere
J
Moderator
Posts: 602
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 18, 2001 01:31 PM
You could try one of those electronic cig lighters. I've never taken the piezo mechanism apart, but I'm sure something could be made of it. You could try several crystals in one device.
J
------------------
"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman
vehemt
Frequent Poster
Posts: 580
From: Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 18, 2001 02:19 PM
Get an aim and flame (bbq lighter) from a dollar store or get the cheapest one you can from a hardware store. Open it up and you will be rewarded with a nice durable(unlike the cigarette lighter units) piezo electric unit.
These suckers use quartz I believe.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 18, 2001 07:37 PM
You won't be able to set off a regular electric ignitor with a pieze gas lighter because the current is tiny. Maybe if you passed the spark through soemthing very sensitive to static like AP it would work. I know AP is sensitive to a spark from a stun gun, I'll have to try with a pieze ignitor.
The Real
Frequent Poster
Posts: 136
From: Columbus, OH
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 19, 2001 12:54 AM
I don't think quartz is used in this application though I know it is a piezomaterial. It's a ceramic disk, not thin like a piezo buzzers, that is crushed on impact. The voltage is plenty with a lighter igniter but the current isn't there. The time of application probably isn't there either.
BTW the discs he said looked like donuts or cylinders, exact dimensions were never given though, but from pics on the net I'm gonna guess the discs are over 1" thick and 1-3" diameter. I also think the amnt of wattage produced is directly proportional to the force applies.
[This message has been edited by The Real (edited February 19, 2001).]
shooter2
Frequent Poster
Posts: 56
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted February 19, 2001 08:31 AM
About 30 years ago,I read that one of the materials used to fire Bazooka warheads was Glaubers Salt (SP?). Which is Ammonium Nitrate. You have to grow large crystals of it, and after attaching the leads you must give it a water proof covering(varnish?). Ahh... the versitile A.N.!
(Glauber's Salt in NOT ammonium nitrate, it's Sodium Sulphate (Na2SO4). I did a web search to see if I could find any reference to sodium sulphate being a piezo material but found none. Probably means it isn't. NBK2000)
[This message has been edited by nbk2000 (edited February 19, 2001).]
vehemt
Frequent Poster
Posts: 580
From: Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 19, 2001 02:44 PM
I was reffering to the quartz content in the lighters ignitor.
Applying this technology to a "home made" missile/projectile doesnt seem too practical too me anyways. A mechanical or electronic sensor system would seem much more practical.
The Real
Frequent Poster
Posts: 136
From: Columbus, OH
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 19, 2001 09:19 PM
In terms of weight I think the idea would be very practical, depending on cost of course. It would also mean less components and in turn less chances for failures.
vehemt
Frequent Poster
Posts: 580
From: Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 20, 2001 12:22 AM
Problem is, the material needs to be machined rather precisely, you will spend a LOT of time developing a way to implement it, and will very likely not be cheap.
shooter2
Frequent Poster
Posts: 56
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted February 20, 2001 05:37 AM
nkb, Of course you are right. I'm suffering from info. over load. The correct material is called ROCHELLE SALT. I think the crystals are easy to grow from CREAM OF TARTAR. They must be moisture proofed after attaching electrodes.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 20, 2001 10:13 AM
What's wrong with a battery and a push switch? It'd be SO much simpler!