Mentioning E&W in an Interview

[Lewis]

The short story is this: I'm applying for a job as a lab assistant, which really requires no lab experience, but I want to improve my chances by mentioning my pursuits in the field of chemistry. The problem is, the only reactions I'm ever interested in are the very fast, exothermic type. :p

Something tells me a potential employer would be turned off by my mentioning HE's and pyrotechnics as my hobby.

I guess my question for the forum is, how can I convey my knowledge of lab practice, without giving too much away, and if I'm asked for specifics, how far should I go?

[Charles Owlen Picket]

I have a suggestion: you would need to adapt it to YOUR style of presentation....

Chemistry has always fascinated you. In fact you are somewhat of a hobbyist chemist; in that you read a great deal of material (list non-energetic oriented material like Organic Synthesis archives) & have even taken the time to pursue some reactions at home (growing crystals, making dyes). You have taken the time to do it as professionally as possible in that you look toward safety first.

Here we have an example of all the safe points of the hobby without the baggage of the energetic issue. You mention things like dye synthesis and you come damn close to energetic synthesis due to the materials needed for same (do your homework on this of course)..... Mention "safe" politically correct reading, specifics are very important. Organic Synthesis is something most folks are familiar with.

Obviously you have to work this into your style of presentation. But a word of advise: most folks TALK too much in interviews. Let the other guy TELL YOU what he wants to hear & take it from there. Prepare well in advance to have smooth answers to questions like: "what do you consider most primary in lab safety?", "What's the first thing you do when a synthesis has been completed?", etc, etc. Don't over sell yourself OR your interest. Find out what type of person the guy wants first before making ANY statement of "appropriate-person for the position". - Good Luck!


Personally speaking: I don't mention E&W to ANYONE, EVER.... but that's just me.

[akinrog]

I don't mention E&W to ANYONE, EVER.... but that's just me.

Ooo wise one, you are really right about this. :)

Once upon a time in my dream I forgot to put away some chemistry notes, a colleague of mine (who happens to speak English) see "explosives" word on it.

Despite I did my best to create plausible deniability, the guy did not forget what he see. He bugs me in my dreams. F*cking retard. :mad:

[Alexires]

No joke, and once the word gets out, suddenly you have a bunch of people trying to impress their "1337 haX0r freinds" by the fact that they have a "friend" that knows about "kewl bombz".


I had a friend that learnt that lesson long ago. Don't tell anyone about what you do, what you think.

Bahhh like all the other sheeple, but conceal the mind of a wolf.

Charles' advice is certainly sound. If it goes into depth, you can even talk about chromophores (as opposed to explosophores) and be fairly correct. Of course, follow the RTPB and use the 7 P's (Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance). Perhaps even bring some of your lab write ups of your "experiments" (into dyes and other harmless things) and have them there in case they really start asking you questions about your synthesis. You don't want to seem to eager, but it is better to have some supporting evidence there in case you need it. You don't have to show them if they don't seem to interested (in fact, perhaps better not to show them in that case).

20 questions later...
"Sir, perhaps it would just be easier if you had a look at my lab reports from my experimentation. I draw your attention in particular to the safety evaluation that I carry out for every experiment as well as the MSDS's stapled to the back of every report."

On the other hand, we had a lab assistant at school who was incredibly awesome and was into "energetics" as well, often blowing up various things to impress visiting students to the school.

[megalomania]

This is one of those 6 of one, half a dozen of the other situations. Meaning, mentioning your proclivity for energetics could be very impressive and clinch the job, or it could be discouraging and lose you the job.

Technically speaking explosives are not politically correct, you are not supposed to know such things, so you should never mention you have such forbidden knowledge. However, just about any man in the chemistry field probably started out with a keen interest in energetics, which is likely what gave him his start in chemistry, so he would be very impressed.

It all depends on what kind of person your interviewer is. If he is a scientist himself he likely understands the allure of explosives, but if he is just a human resources clod, watch out!

You should not tip your hand too far by making yourself out to be the unibomber. There is a healthy interest, and a dangerous obsession.

I find in interviews you always tell them what they want to hear. Don't volunteer information about yourself. If you will make explosives as part of your job, well that's all you do... If it is a particular synthesis they are after, well you are experienced in nitrations... They don't need to know of what specific compounds.

The ignorant attitude that explosives are bad and no one should know about them is very pervasive in society. For this reason even people who are closet explosophiles may display explosist (like racist) traits to fit in...

[Barnacles]

For this reason even people who are closet explosophiles may display explosist (like racist) traits to fit in...

I may or may not be guilty of this offense...

Where I am the knowledge of chemistry = drugs,terrorism, bad intentions. questions arise "what do you need to know that for" "do you make drugs, or are you making bombs..." In this day and age you should basically tell no one about this. If someone tells anyone in any agency, not only will you be put on a watch list, maybe monitored to some degree and you will most likely end up being visited by some local law enforcement to have a chat.
About 2 weeks ago some guy was in the hospital and left a note for his wife on how to handle a jar of picric acid I think, she freaked out and called the cops. They cleared a few blocks of house away. Over a jar of explosives. And one time if I remember correctly I remember reading about a police chiefs remarks upon hearing that someone had a few gallons of some chemicals at his house. Declaring there is no reason he should have that and he was putting his entire neighbour in jeopardy. Not really related just some remarks I have seen that demonstrate the typical negative view portrayed by the public.

I have actually been called stupid for displaying an interest to learn chemistry or other sciences. I am not a big chemist have hardly any real knowledge to be honest, but still like to learn reactions of all sorts from mundane to energetic. And just read about it when I can.

I find it quite interesting. and through time we have been able to tell one mundane white powder from the other 10,000 mundane white powders. While managing to even isolate and purify and label and characterize all of these things.

On subject, this is not something I would even consider bringing up with anyone unless the job involved nitrating said things, or you were blowing shit up as part of your job such as mining or EOD, or anything involving explosives.

[-=HeX=-]

I recall when I came out of my explosiphile closet... I have never regretted it, even in my country where just a few years bin terrorists ran riot in the north. In ireland energetics still have a lot of stigma thanks to the IRA. I ended up being questioned a while later in relation to am incident with thermite by the pork. That was in my kewl days.

These days I try to pretend to have pyro and energetics but still say that I like safe chemistry like litmus tests, crystal making, displacement and polymer chemistry. It has made life way easier.

In short, what they said :P GOOD LUCK!

[Charles Owlen Picket]

The depth of the question: "what do you need to know that for?" is a very insidious trap. To enter into it in any way what so ever, invites problems. Therefore I stay as far as I can from that invasive garbage.

There is no "acceptable" way to even answer the query! "I wanted to know about that because I'm curious about "X,"Y", & "Z"." is just a stall before the questioner demands that the knowledge is forbidden & YOU are displaying wrong thinking.

Both Left & Right use this technique & it shuts down all attempts to gain more material. What's more, it places the questioner in a position of subservience & submissive attempts to calm the storm of derision.

If one should respond with anger (perhaps the best technique) & state "because I'm curious! Is that allowed, mien fuhrer?" The response may be a continuance of "why are you curious about something so destructive"? In which case any explaining & moving from anger is seen as explaining away a transgression. If you think about it, it's a "no-win" scenario.


~-{Off Topic Editorializing}-~

That is exactly why some people have adopted a "code" to find like-minded people.

The "code" works something like this:
"Oh I was into pyro stuff when I was a kid" (This statement in response to some opening like a remark about a fire or explosion; never a beginning statement!) The other party will say something like "You too?", "Oh, you like that crap also?", "Yeah, when I was a kid, I goofed around with all sorts of experiments & hobbies"....."Oh Hell, I still enjoy stuff like that but I don't have time to play around like when I was younger". "Me too, I haven't kept up with it, but I still think it's fun". "Well just the other day I was thinking about some crap I did when I was into that stuff: I used to (insert something very light-weight here)"..... The response you get will tell you if you have a "brother" or a problem.

Never self-incriminate or speak of anything even remotely destructive or dangerous. Let the other person talk first.....& if he does be aware of entrapment. Safe subjects are legal activities. There are plenty of legal activities that are deeply "pyro" & will start a "show me yours & I'll show you mine" conversation. You can never be too careful in this day & age. And remember some people are nuts. I always steer clear of nuts like the plague! Be very careful of anyone who wants you to provide physical material' or to purchase (or even middleman) chemicals, etc. A "brother" will never want you to put your ass on Front Street & put yourself in a position of risk. He may be a stupid jackass (& that's not a brother) and know no better: steer clear of him because that's a K3wL. A fool such as that will bring you grief. Anyone who is worth knowing is someone who respects your needs for safety, etc.

In this hobby I have known (well) four people. I could trust them all to not do stupid shit, risking the community's safety, other's well being or their own. We all met by complete accident. One fellow passed away from cancer at 68yrs old (too fucking young), another moved away but we still mail each other and the others are still around......That's about 13-18 yrs back in history. None of them EVER asked me to do anything even remotely stupid.

The hobby should be fun. Harming people or property is nuts, not fun: use common sense.

[Lewis]

Geez, I feel waves of sobriety washing over me as I read these responses. I guess I somehow thought my hobbies would be no big deal, and, to some degree, perhaps even secure me a position. In reality, I could be at risk of informing someone who has knowledge in this area that I commit federal offenses.

Alas, that's the core duality of this area of interest. At some point, when you start "having fun", you are putting yourself at risk in more ways than one. At one end of the scale you have the kids that take the chances, they use the know-how to gain popularity or make a quick buck in high school.

Then there are those who are so covert as to tell not a living soul, to practice energetics like some persecuted religion. Those who, deep down feel guilty and unsure of themselves.

I suppose most of us float somewhere between the two poles. There is, however, always risk of not staying true to ourselves, or being carted off, or forced to give up the interest forever.

[megalomania]

The question of "what do you need to know that for?" is one of the big reasons I started The Forum to begin with. Here we are, the one exception to the rule that question is always bad news :)

If you caught the quote on the front page from one of my chemistry professors, he summed it up very succinctly: "Chemistry = bad" (in the minds of average people).

[Secong Nature]

"Chemistry=Bad" - So true, of course the irony is that most drug makers don't even know what the hell they are actually making apart from shit that gets you high. Most explosives are probably stolen from the military than actually made by home cooks.

I'm not sure about the US and explosives but I would think that mentioning making some legal though dangerous things could work. It's probably quite legal to make nitrocellulose in some countries without any need for permission, if you get a good response to that then you could go ahead with more to impress.

[Hirudinea]

"Chemistry = bad" (in the minds of average people).

Its all part of the dumbing down of society, if people had always had this attitude that curisoity and intelect were things to be feared we'ed still be living in cold, dark caves picking the fleas out of our pubes. (And some day, if these atitudes continue, we just might.)