Ricin Arrest

[phrankinsteyn]

I read an interesting "news" article today concerning a person arrested for ricin production.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080416/ap_on_re_us/ricin_mystery


Uploaded article to phrankinsteyn folder for future reference.

[Hinckleyforpresident]

Here's the same story from CNN

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/16/ricin.arrest/index.html?iref=newssearch

I find it very surprising they aren't [mis]labeling his arrest as "One of the greatest bioterrorism arrests in history" or something. Although I am a little curious what he was really planning to do with that ricin....

[Hirudinea]

Well the article said the ricin he made was 2.9% pure, mabye he way just trying to find a way to make purer ricin, just to see if he could make it.

[megalomania]

Some people just don't know when to shut up. It sounds like this guy was babbling on and on about all his crimes to the police, he probably fell for that buddy cop routing where they pretend to be interested in everything you do, cop probably told him he did the same stuff and maybe he could get a job in the crime lab... Then the floodgates open and the incriminations spew fourth.

His lawyer was the only one with any sense, keeping the guy quiet.

The media may not be making a big deal out of this because the canary is likely still singing. He is probably talking about where he buried Hoffa by now. If the media makes him out to be a monster (at the orders of their fedgov masters) he might wise up and shut his trap.

More likely he is just some over the hill bum living in a fleabag motel with a vial of bean curd and schizophrenic delusions. This would not be newsworthy.

[phrankinsteyn]

What I found interesting is how they stated his purchase of the caster bean seeds were traced, the amount of time and fine he is facing, and charging his cousin. This could be misinformation on their part (local law enforcement and FBI) to scare the rest of the "sheeple" or brilliant police work. :rolleyes:

Either way the laws/fines and keeping your hobbies to yourself are something to remember. Especially if you care about someone (so they are not taken down with you or threatened with jail) or in the case of that special someone who no longer cares about you..........

[megalomania]

I think only the gun charge may stick. In these cases they always throw the book at you, but I can't imagine they will have an easy time at trial trying to convince a jury he had plans to go on a murder spree with a vial of bean curd. He will likely serve just as long in jail for the gun charge as with everything else, and that's a more solid case, so he will likely plead out to the weapons charges and everyone goes away happy (well, maybe not so happy for Mr. Bergendorff).

Now what I would like to know is what prompted the motel manager to get the police involved when he received a few vials of powder, and why did the cousin give the vials over to the manager to begin with? Beyond the obvious thought that vials contained drugs, why didn't they just throw the things away?

The purchase of the castor beans were not traced, the fedgov agents got lucky... "a June 2002 receipt for castor bean seed, purchased from a Michigan company, was found in an Utah storage locker rented by Bergendorff.."

They were obviously looking for where he may have manufactured the ricin ("Police and homeland security officials have said they found no ricin contamination in any place Bergendorff stayed."), and while searching they found the receipt. Serendipitous for them that the owner of a fake business kept business records :rolleyes:

It's rather funny when you think about it that nicotine from tobacco could be extracted with greater ease and purity, it is profoundly more available, and it is not that much less toxic than ricin. Ricin is a natural substance, castor beans are easy to get, everyone knows about its toxicity, if this stuff is such a terrible weapon of mass destruction, how come there have not been any massive attacks with it?

Because it is not something easily made into a weapon! Ricin is neither a weapon, capable of destruction, nor able to do anything in mass. Ricin is something that looks deadly on paper, but in practice is just a can of beans.

[EOD]

Ricin has been used as a weapon before. Mostly for assinations such as Georgi Markov in London. But there are plenty of people who can easily make a refined product. Even unskilled personnel could make large quantities of less refined Ricin and achieve similiar goals on large concentrations of people. Never undersetimate people who want to do harm.



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[megalomania]

Exactly my point EOD, there has only been one notable assassination using ricin, and it made a mess of things, even though the target died in the end. The ricin had to be physically injected to do the job. Any number of other poisons could have done exactly the same thing with the same effect.

The fear is ricin is somehow so much more toxic than all other poisons that is has the potential to kill thousands or millions with a bag full of beans. That is just not happening. Ricin is not a nerve gas that can be aerosolized or vaporized, nor is it something that can be absorbed by touch.

The only practical value of ricin is that it can be easily obtained, cultivated, and prepared by ordinary people. They teach grade schoolers how to grow bean plants in dixie cups. Growing castor beans is not that complicated.

Forensic toxological testing of ricin is now a reality, so it is not the undetectable poison it used to be. Having an undetectable poison is attractive to poisoners, and this may have made ricin more attractive to them in the past.

My point is, ricin is not as extraordinary as the media makes it out to be. Ricin has been sensationalized by the fedgov and talking heads. People fear chemistry, and now they have a poster child boogyman to hang those fears on. We have sold our common sense for a bag of magic beans :)

[EOD]

I agree that Ricin is not the perfect agent. But then again Anthrax is one of the worse choices around yet (because of media hype) gets used. The amount of Ricin needed to kill is also attractive to those intent on doing harm. The amount of material used to kill the London victim was contained in something the size of the head of a pin. The materials to make the poison are also so much easier to get than say the precursors to Sarin. So while there are plenty of agents that could be used more effectively, the ease of acquiring the raw materials, easy production of the poison, and media hype does make it a viable threat. Of course we don't have to worry about the same things we would with other biological agents if you happen to be the person the poison is used on this is a moot point.


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Moderator note: Don't presume to tell someone like Megalomania that he is correct. To do so is mere foolishness. You are better of saying that you agree, as opposed to just saying "You are correct". Also, as Charles said, watch that spelling before you press the post button. Some of these mistakes are sheer laziness, and I don't think you will be warned again.

[mike-hunt]

What makes weapons such as anthrax and Rican so effective is not their killing power but the disruption to our every day lives. The whole post 9/11 anthrax mail scare only resulted in 3 deaths and 17 hospitalized. A well placed Molotov could do better yet the way the masses respond to it is , Anthrax = Bio weapon = Weapon of mass destruction = Terrorist = PANIC .The government reaction is to show the public the new measures that are being taken in an effort to ease this panic and millions are spent on mail screening .All this was properly caused by some unknown nut bag with a grudge. That is why all nuts are now potential threats to world security.

[megalomania]

The threat is no greater, only the perception of a threat. Your life is not disrupted by something that does not personally affect you. Only the lives of the dead, and those close to them, are disrupted. The more death and destruction, the more security is threatened.

I didn't panic when I heard the news of Anthrax in the mail. I didn't panic on 9/11. Very few people were directly involved compared to the rest of the country. We all know about from these events from the news, just like we all know Anna Nichole Smith is dead, and neither issue really changes how we live.

The sky is falling, the sky is falling. Wolf, wolf. Anthrax, ricin. The media is whipping the sheeple into a frenzy of fear and paranoia for nothing. We face a greater threat from our own government creating totalitarian laws and militarizing the police than we do from some loner with a vial of bean curd or an envelope of white powder.

[EOD]

megalomania you have hit the nail on the head. Most people would be better off remembering the 1930s and the use the Nazi Party put to a "terrorist" attack. Ricin can be used as a weapon. So can many other things. It would be relatively easy to cause mass amounts of chaos in this country by attacking the power grid and othet key infrastructures. But relatively small attacks have expanded the powers of The Fed Government drastically. Most would benefit from reading Franklin's words and the lessons of history.

[Hirudinea]

The job of a terrorist is to terrorize, if making ricin, or anthrax or giant inflatible monkyes attached to the Empire State buliding will terrorize the people than thats what you do, weather its an effective attack on the infrastructure of the nation isn't really inportant.