BlackFalcoN
May 11th, 2008, 08:10 PM
I was visiting a long time friend who recently moved far away to France, where he gave me a demonstration of a couple of .22LR sound moderators (suppressors, silencers, cans).
Here is a report of my findings:
Silencers are perfectly legal to own in France without any law trying to regulate their purchase, possession or design.
(Ich had never fired or used a silencer before and don't intend to, since they are illegal in my home country.)
According to my friend, the French government even encourages shooters to use them to reduce firearm noise pollution :cool:
No 200$ BATFE stamp, no fingerprints taken, no LEO involved, no Form 4 purchase through a Class3 dealer, no dodgy 'legal trust constructions' to own them -- it seems some governments actually still trust their civilians to own them. ;)
This is not unique in Europe since other countries such as Finland, Norway & Sweden and the UK (for firearms up to .25 ) also allow the purchase of suppressors.
(Firearm ownership is not so liberal in Europe as in the USA and generally requires a permit to purchase a firearm though)
Suppressors are generally available in gunshops, and range from 25 euros for a basic .22LR to about 400-ish euros for a high calibre, top of the line design.
( 40$ to 600$; but with the plummeting US economy and dollar exchange rate, don't quote me on that in a year :D )
Anyway, I personally experienced the firing of a couple of silencers. The host weapon was a Ruger MkII pistol, firing CCI 40 grain standard velocity rounds.
( because the barrel length of a pistol is generally too short for a .22LR to reach supersonic velocity, this does not create a supersonic crack, and so the more expensive subsonic ammo is not required.)
First to test was the Still No2 silencer.
This is a very light weight, short silencer, designed to be compact (12cm long) and cheap and reduce sound levels to a 'hearing safe' level.
First round pop was not too bad, since the internal volume and oxygen is limited.
Certainly not the best I witnessed that day, but for 25 euros it's certainly the most economical way to shoot without hearing protection.
Next was the SAK silencieux from Finland.
It was about 3cm longer than the Still, but a lot bulkier. It actually had such a big diameter that it blocked the sights of the MkII.
My friend showed me the internal design of this silencer. It is designed from a mono block of aluminum, with 6 round staggered baffle chambers.
It seems like a very simple design, depending on larger internal volume rather than complicated internals design, which makes it certainly replicatable for people who own a drill press and round stock aluminium. (and can't buy them legally)
It is very easily disassembled and cleaned.
My friend told me this particular design works even better if one puts mesh wire (course steel wool) in the baffle chambers, and smear some Ultrasonic gel in it to optimize thermal conductivity to cool down the gasses. (which he demonstrated to me)
The ultrasonic gel is used instead of water. This is referred to as a 'wet' silencer and the substance is used to cool down the gasses even more. You could easily replace this with lithium grease, wire gell or just plain water. Ultrasonic gel has the benefit that it's water based (doesn't create smoke when heated like grease), but still is a solid gel, so it remains in place longer than liquid tap water.
We fired it a couple of times, and I was very impressed with the results we got.
The shot did not sound like a firearm discharge at all, rather like a CO2pellet gun.
They are sold for about 50 euros and are available in various colours and 1/2x20 or 1/2x28 tpi threads at most French gunshops.
Very much liked the sound reduction, especially the home improved version, I can see a lot of rogue applications for it ;).
It was a bit bulky so you are not able to use sights anymore which a minus to me.
After that, my friend showed me a home made design, which he fabricated himself on his father's metal lathe.
The design consists of 4 main parts:
-a threaded steel tube, very slim but longer than 2 previous silencers with a removable screw-on lid (about 19 cm).
-6 aluminum K-Baffles (so called, because their design resembles a K from the side)
-an aluminum spacer tube, OD fitted nicely into the ID of the steel outer tube. This is to provide a gas expansion chamber, so the final pressure of the gasses through the baffles is reduced considerably.
-a coil spring to press the baffle elements and expansion chamber snugly into the tube.
The noise report was the same as the improved version of the SAK I'd say, quiet, very thin design, but the DIY design requires a workshop with a metal lathe...
Finally we tested the Ase Utra 22. (Utra not Ultra)
This is a Finnish silencer which is regarded by many as 'the ultimate in noise reduction for a .22LR' that is commercially available to civilians.
It is relatively heavy, due to it's all steel design and about 17 cm long. The metal's finish is very nice.
The sights of the MkII were perfectly usable with this silencer.
Price in France is reasonably high, around 130 euros, but my friend said it would be much cheaper to buy them in the UK (70£) or straight from Finland (80euro).
After firing the MkII with it, all I can say is 'Waaw...'
This nifty device literally converts a .22LR into a weapon that does not sound like anything I've heard before. It's more silent than a CO2pellet gun, more silent than a paintball gun.
I'm pretty certain you could fire this all day long in an apartment building, without people even suspecting you of discharging a gun. This thing was quiet !
( not Hollywood silencer quiet, but still, much better than all previous silencers we tested that day). There was no other sound than the action working the gun and the bullet impacting the wooden target.
What I was able to find from research on the internet, the Ase Utra is indeed one of the quietest silencer currently available, beating most of the hyper-expensive US designs in performance (Gemtech, AAC, SRT, ...) so 80 to 130 euros could be easily justified for the extra performance.
Anyway, those were my findings that day from firing a limited amount of silencers.
Since I didn't have any scientific measuring equipment available other than my own ears, I understand that all noise reports are subjective. However, they are accurately reported in relation to eachother. (loudest - Still - SAK - SAK Improved & DIY KBaffle - Ase - quietest)
I was wondering if other members have friends themselves who have experience with commercially available European silencers, and what their findings are.
What is available, how does it perform, how is the design, what does it cost...
PS; Note that I would never want to encourage anyone to illegally import silencers into their home country when possession of silencers is prohibited.
( even though we are one happy continent, and people and goods are free to travel much of the Euro zone, without being subjected to border controls :rolleyes:)
Here is a report of my findings:
Silencers are perfectly legal to own in France without any law trying to regulate their purchase, possession or design.
(Ich had never fired or used a silencer before and don't intend to, since they are illegal in my home country.)
According to my friend, the French government even encourages shooters to use them to reduce firearm noise pollution :cool:
No 200$ BATFE stamp, no fingerprints taken, no LEO involved, no Form 4 purchase through a Class3 dealer, no dodgy 'legal trust constructions' to own them -- it seems some governments actually still trust their civilians to own them. ;)
This is not unique in Europe since other countries such as Finland, Norway & Sweden and the UK (for firearms up to .25 ) also allow the purchase of suppressors.
(Firearm ownership is not so liberal in Europe as in the USA and generally requires a permit to purchase a firearm though)
Suppressors are generally available in gunshops, and range from 25 euros for a basic .22LR to about 400-ish euros for a high calibre, top of the line design.
( 40$ to 600$; but with the plummeting US economy and dollar exchange rate, don't quote me on that in a year :D )
Anyway, I personally experienced the firing of a couple of silencers. The host weapon was a Ruger MkII pistol, firing CCI 40 grain standard velocity rounds.
( because the barrel length of a pistol is generally too short for a .22LR to reach supersonic velocity, this does not create a supersonic crack, and so the more expensive subsonic ammo is not required.)
First to test was the Still No2 silencer.
This is a very light weight, short silencer, designed to be compact (12cm long) and cheap and reduce sound levels to a 'hearing safe' level.
First round pop was not too bad, since the internal volume and oxygen is limited.
Certainly not the best I witnessed that day, but for 25 euros it's certainly the most economical way to shoot without hearing protection.
Next was the SAK silencieux from Finland.
It was about 3cm longer than the Still, but a lot bulkier. It actually had such a big diameter that it blocked the sights of the MkII.
My friend showed me the internal design of this silencer. It is designed from a mono block of aluminum, with 6 round staggered baffle chambers.
It seems like a very simple design, depending on larger internal volume rather than complicated internals design, which makes it certainly replicatable for people who own a drill press and round stock aluminium. (and can't buy them legally)
It is very easily disassembled and cleaned.
My friend told me this particular design works even better if one puts mesh wire (course steel wool) in the baffle chambers, and smear some Ultrasonic gel in it to optimize thermal conductivity to cool down the gasses. (which he demonstrated to me)
The ultrasonic gel is used instead of water. This is referred to as a 'wet' silencer and the substance is used to cool down the gasses even more. You could easily replace this with lithium grease, wire gell or just plain water. Ultrasonic gel has the benefit that it's water based (doesn't create smoke when heated like grease), but still is a solid gel, so it remains in place longer than liquid tap water.
We fired it a couple of times, and I was very impressed with the results we got.
The shot did not sound like a firearm discharge at all, rather like a CO2pellet gun.
They are sold for about 50 euros and are available in various colours and 1/2x20 or 1/2x28 tpi threads at most French gunshops.
Very much liked the sound reduction, especially the home improved version, I can see a lot of rogue applications for it ;).
It was a bit bulky so you are not able to use sights anymore which a minus to me.
After that, my friend showed me a home made design, which he fabricated himself on his father's metal lathe.
The design consists of 4 main parts:
-a threaded steel tube, very slim but longer than 2 previous silencers with a removable screw-on lid (about 19 cm).
-6 aluminum K-Baffles (so called, because their design resembles a K from the side)
-an aluminum spacer tube, OD fitted nicely into the ID of the steel outer tube. This is to provide a gas expansion chamber, so the final pressure of the gasses through the baffles is reduced considerably.
-a coil spring to press the baffle elements and expansion chamber snugly into the tube.
The noise report was the same as the improved version of the SAK I'd say, quiet, very thin design, but the DIY design requires a workshop with a metal lathe...
Finally we tested the Ase Utra 22. (Utra not Ultra)
This is a Finnish silencer which is regarded by many as 'the ultimate in noise reduction for a .22LR' that is commercially available to civilians.
It is relatively heavy, due to it's all steel design and about 17 cm long. The metal's finish is very nice.
The sights of the MkII were perfectly usable with this silencer.
Price in France is reasonably high, around 130 euros, but my friend said it would be much cheaper to buy them in the UK (70£) or straight from Finland (80euro).
After firing the MkII with it, all I can say is 'Waaw...'
This nifty device literally converts a .22LR into a weapon that does not sound like anything I've heard before. It's more silent than a CO2pellet gun, more silent than a paintball gun.
I'm pretty certain you could fire this all day long in an apartment building, without people even suspecting you of discharging a gun. This thing was quiet !
( not Hollywood silencer quiet, but still, much better than all previous silencers we tested that day). There was no other sound than the action working the gun and the bullet impacting the wooden target.
What I was able to find from research on the internet, the Ase Utra is indeed one of the quietest silencer currently available, beating most of the hyper-expensive US designs in performance (Gemtech, AAC, SRT, ...) so 80 to 130 euros could be easily justified for the extra performance.
Anyway, those were my findings that day from firing a limited amount of silencers.
Since I didn't have any scientific measuring equipment available other than my own ears, I understand that all noise reports are subjective. However, they are accurately reported in relation to eachother. (loudest - Still - SAK - SAK Improved & DIY KBaffle - Ase - quietest)
I was wondering if other members have friends themselves who have experience with commercially available European silencers, and what their findings are.
What is available, how does it perform, how is the design, what does it cost...
PS; Note that I would never want to encourage anyone to illegally import silencers into their home country when possession of silencers is prohibited.
( even though we are one happy continent, and people and goods are free to travel much of the Euro zone, without being subjected to border controls :rolleyes:)