Odd fertilizer worked for AN?

[LtChicken]

I went to the hardware store and looker for AN fertilizer, and the closest thing they had in stock was 36-0-4. I bought some and read about it and found a method to purify normal AN, and I tried that method with my fertilizer.

First I poured a good amount of the fertilizer into hot but not boiling water. The white prills dissolved out of the fertilizer but the other objects did not. I let it sit for about 15 minutes and I filtered the solution to get the crap out of it. All of the objects that didn't dissolve were filtered out successfully and I was left with a clear solution. I boiled this solution for some time and then I let it cool in the room temp. air for 10 minutes then put it in the freezer. It began to crystallize and when it was cool I sorted it and strained it on paper towels, replacing the towels when they were soaked completely until the white crystals were dry.

What I have now are white crystals which I hope are relatively pure AN, but I'm not sure.

I did UTFSE and I even googled it, but to no avail. I couldnt find anything about trying to purify AN that was not 34-0-0 or 33-0-0.

If you want more details, I can give them, I.E. the specific look of the material in the fertilizer, or even what it says on the bag. I appreciate any help.

[Alexires]

Perhaps you should have a look for the MSDS of whatever fertiliser you used?

See, those numbers represent what % the fertiliser is in terms of Nitrogen - Potassium - Phosphorous/Phosphates (aka - NKP). Hence, I would assume that your fertiliser was 36% Nitrogen (in the form of AN or perhaps Urea), 0% Potassium and 4% phosphates (possibly in the form of Ammonium Phosphate).

Ammonium Phosphate is soluble in water - Bad for you (if that is what it was).

You have no idea how pure it is, or even what you have. A little common sense and research would have led you to the same conclusion that I have reached.

The next step would be to look at the properties of Ammonium Nitrate (melting point, solubility, enthalpy of solution) and perhaps doing some experiments to determine if what you have is a) Ammonium Nitrate and b) how pure your AN is (if that is what you have).

You say that you used the search engine, and perhaps you did. Next time, try and think about it as opposed to searching for spoon feeding instructions.

You thought train should go something like this ->

"Hmmm, 36-0-4. That sort of looks like 34-0-0. I wonder if it is the same. Perhaps those numbers mean something and I know that almost every chemical sold should have an MSDS telling me what is in it."

Investigate.

"Well, those numbers mean NKP. That means what I have has lots of nitrogen and a little bit of phosphates. I have no idea what that nitrogen is, it might not be Ammonium Nitrate. I could/couldn't find the MSDS but I wonder if there is a way I can find out what it is. It looks like 34-0-0 so perhaps it is?"

Investigates properties of Ammonium Nitrate.

"Look at that, it has almost the same properties that Ammonium Nitrate has, where as Urea doesn't really do (insert experimental results). I'm pretty sure I have AN. Now, can I purify it easily, and if not, do I need to purify it?"

Investigate what the other compound could be.

Conclusion.


As opposed to ->

ZOMG! I found some stuff that has numbers like AN! I wonder if someone has written instructions on extracting this! NO!!!!! They haven't! Better go ask for some help from The Forum, and start a new thread in the Watercooler (so they don't ban me!) about something that has been talked about Ad Nauseam.

Only reason you aren't toast yet is because you posted this in the Watercooler.

[Charles Owlen Picket]

Alexires beat me to the punch. Both the spoon and razor were floating in my head; one to feed & one to bleed. Honestly, all this info is here.....it's right here. You just have to use that damn "Search" button. Perhaps some of you reading this right now have some trouble doing that because you lack a certain aptitude in the actual USE of such a thing. This is NOT a put-down. I am being very positive and well meaning here....

You have a subject but it's generalized like the above example. So you actually try to do the right thing. You type in "Ammonium nitrate" and get a million hits. You get discouraged so you try a post in the Water Cooler.....WAIT! Your subject contained some specifics and that will get you to your valuable info.

Instead of Searching for "Ammonium Nitrate", try the specifics of what you want to understand..... You saw numeric information, you thought about extraction, You are dealing with fertilizer, you are attempting to isolate & identify.

So NARROW that Search by EXPANDING the criteria! Try "Nitrogen, Potassium, Phosphorous (NKP), Extraction, Fertilizer, MSDS, Ammonium Nitrate". No hits? Narrow by the least specific to topic. No hits? Try again. Two hits. Look at the thread. Expand another Search by what THAT thread deals with that coincides with what you want to know. Start wide THEN narrow.

This board is gigabytes of information. Even in the unlikely event that IT doesn't have the info that you need it will bring you to the internet link that does (within reason). There have been some subjects that have yet to be discussed in depth. But if YOU believe that your subject has someone here who could answer that question; in all likelihood, it's been discussed.

The REASON why there is such a reaction to this Search issue is that it is a sign of intellectual laziness. Intellectual laziness will get you or someone hurt. Explosives, weapons, energetic materials, Chemistry, Physics, theoretical mathematics, etc are all serious, potentially dangerous subjects. There is really no place for intellectual laziness (at ALL; in my opinion). This breeds the childish experimentation*..... - that is best left to the awakening wonder of adolescent sexuality, rather than something that might harm or bring legal repercussions.


* This is what is known as a "Kewl" or "K3wL" (kool) n. slang. A (generally) younger person who believe what he does has merit, especially to his peers, is intellectually lazy, practices high ascii elite-speak (or text-speak) to emphasize his unique status. He displays hedonism, adolescent tyranny toward his family, malignant narcissism, & often has a very short attention span.
"The KewL stored his (carelessly made) TATP in an improper environment, resulting in an injury." "D00d, that AP wuz fukd. B1Ack D3aTH made ultrak3wlshit."

Definition - Kewl

[LtChicken]

Alexires - Like I said, I do have more details if I didn't supply enough information in my post, which is now evident.

The bag says:

1.18% Ammoniacal Nitrogen
34.82% Urea Nitrogen

4% Soluble Potash

Right there it says only 1.18% Ammoniacal Nitrogen, which I'm guessing means only 1.18% AN? I'm not exactly sure.

Potash has a reddish color and the only red colored objects in the fertilizer are few and far between. Do you think I could take them out by hand and extract the AN from that instead? When I put the fertilizer straight into the hot water and filtered it, I noticed none of the rock objects actually dissolved.

A property of ammonium nitrate is to make water really cold when it touches it, correct? I took a spoonful of the white crystals I came up with earlier and poured some water into it. The water dramatically decreased in temperature. I know for a fact this is a property of ammonium nitrate but I'm still not confident in that test alone. I've looked through the internet for various tests to check the purify of ammonium nitrate but they all involved chemicals that I don't have access to. Remember I couldn't even get 34-0-0 fertilizer.

When I used the search engine I did actually scan through 5 pages of material, looking at several different post archives, one of which someone asked the exact same question as mine but the archive ended without the persons question being answered.

It was this thread :

http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?t=2194&highlight=fertilizer

Maybe the answer to my question is in a thread like that, but maybe I don't know what I'm looking for anyways? At the very least a little direction would be helpful.

[Alexires]

Well, I was going to waste some time typing out a post to help you, but in light of your recent stupidity, I don't think I am going to bother.

Your answer is right there. On the bag. Used in conjunction with the posts that both Charles and myself made, you have a wealth of knowledge that would allow you to solve your problem.

Instead, you decide to come back here and ask for another serving of spoonfeeding. Like giving a bum 20c to get an (alleged) bus ticket in the hopes that he will go away and because it is painful to see someone so lacking, you find him at the same spot the next day, asking again.

Charles and I have given you all the answers you require, yet here you are again, asking for another spoonfeeding. Only this time, you shall find razors as opposed to the spoon.

[Barnacles]

(MAN)What I cannot grasp is how someone sees these numbers:
34.82% Urea Nitrogen
1.18% Ammonical Nitrogen
4% Soluble Potash

They proceed to search on the basis of the material at hand being ammonium nitrate.

At this point it would almost be impossible to talk further without spoon feeding because this is beyond obviousness and derision.

Sorry to join in on the poking.