eBay and Chlorates...

[Pb_Canadian]

After about 2 years of searching for a better alternative for chlorate manufacture, rather than carbon rods, I’ve finally found a supplier. Unlucky for me this supplier runs out of the sketchy eBay and out of the US.

This person sells an assortment of items directly related to chlorate/perchlorate manufacture; MMO electrodes, Platinum electrodes, dichromates, titanium cathodes, as well as the direct chemicals to make flash compositions.

Sadly, being unlicensed and under age ordering any of these items can bring up potential problems. I’m looking for some opinions on whether I should try ordering these, or if anyone has had any luck trying to get this sort of thing across the border.

I’ve been able to order and receive high-quality aluminum without any trouble from eBay (although I’m probably on The List), and fuse from a UK supplier.

[Charles Owlen Picket]

You actually ARE on the List. If you bought any Al via Ebay, they GAVE those purchases up without being asked as good citizens and continue to do so.
But that really doesn't matter. The List is clumsy & really not accessed to any degree. It simply exists.
Are you looking for opinions as to whether to continue activities that place more items under your name as to someone who may have purchased materials related to activities (monitored purchases) deemed a source of threat.....If the purchases involve Ebay; I say don't.

Ebay doesn't simply cooperate. That's not a big deal. .....Ebay makes decisions as to what is "questionable or reportable" and takes proactive action.....that's really over the top. However electrodes would not do it (I don't think) but actual chemicals: no way!

I don't like Ebay. I don't want to support them. BUT what I would advise someone NOT to buy is chemicals. The actual electrodes and set-up stuff....if it's not obvious that it's directly made to make chlorates, I think there would not be any "note-taking".

From what I was told, they volunteer names of people who they believe are involved in activities that violate the law and are a threat to the community! That sounds pretty vicious for some kid making chlorate in a tub. But if you or I bought anything from them already that they thought was verbotten, we have had our names turned over long ago.

You may hear a lot of opinions about Ebay.....that's generally all they are. However they ARE proactive in their interaction with law enforcement and that's where innocent individuals get caught up in a snare for "terrorists", etc.

[ChippedHammer]

I know the person you are talking about, nice seller. He has a website outside of eBay. I'll PM you.

eBay here is a bit better, I am fairly sure a court order is required if someone (police) want details on purchases. But then again, those are easier to get than a blow job on a Saturday night in the red light district.

[TheSavageHyena]

I also found some Nitric on ebay (67.5%) and I never did order it. It was a 900ml bottle I believe, and a pretty decent price (before shipping). However nitric acid has many other uses than explosives so it probably won't raise too many eyebrows. However I doubt that statement more with every passing day. I am still debating the issue, and any opinions would be helpful on the matter.

[Pb_Canadian]

TheSavageHyena,

Personally I would never even think about ordering this stuff over the internet, especially eBay. Although it is a low concentration and they might let go through. You’d likly want to concentrate it, I’m not an expert but I think you’d have to vacuum distill the nitric acid in order to get it to a workable concentration, and a good setup costs $200+.

If you do decide to try ordering any, without it being snatched by the border, drop me a pm.

[Emil]

Personally I would never even think about ordering this stuff over the internet, especially eBay.

PB, as much as one can be paranoid in these horrible times we live in, there are only certain restrictions worth taking, otherwise it makes living life almost impossible, if not very uncomfortable. I agree with you about eBay, but to say the WHOLE internet is out of bounds is way over the top.

There is nothing wrong with using companies via the internet to purchase chemicals or goods. Simply removing it from the equation cuts off thousands of possibilities and routes. There's only so far you can go with the "being cautious" idea. Ok it would be fair to say that infomation over the internet is far more "available" than an order over the phone would be, but unless the company you are ordering from is making an effort and handing your infomation over to authorities with a red ring around it, you really have little to worry about.

It would seem the only mistakes that have been made ordering over the internet spew from eBay, and in situations where some (complete) idiot has placed an obviously fishy order. Ordering 10 gallons of Nitric acid and Sulfuric acid, 50kgs of AN and 25kg of Pentaeyrhtirol all from the same company. This would get you into the same trouble over the phone as it would over the internet. I personally can't believe that you do not use the internet to purchase any goods, maybe your just from the USA and probably have 500 chemical supply companies willing to help you???

The savagehyena: I would say do NOT buy nitric acid over eBay. Forget it. It's just to risky. They are going to look at it and think, what use does this average joe have for Nitric acid. Besides, like PB said, it would only have certain uses being under 70%. There are other ways to obtain nitric at this concentration, without putting your ass on the line for LE to spank.

[TheSavageHyena]

I was just looking out of curiosity, and wondered if that supplier can get more. He also advertised fuming NA and I must admit I was tempted, however the notoriety that comes along with ebay placed me in discourse. Thanks for keeping an eye out though. I agree with COP when it comes to placing orders for eyebrow raising chemicals. Ebay is a no-no in my books and one should avoid it to fend away obvious suspicion.

[Emil]

For anyone interested in Nitric acid, I would really recommend making it. Ok you have to invest in a distillation rig, and possibly add a vacuum source into your rig, but if you plan on making a decent ammount, it's pretty much the only way to go. I don't want to fall off topic here, but if money was tight, you could definately build your own custom rig, using easily available stuff. Head over to the nitric acid synthesis section and read up for some more detail. Buying it is just too expensive, and in most cases not possible.

The ease of use on eBay is often a tempting charecteristic. I mean you can buy anything listed on there, usually with no questions asked, and pay within 2 minutes using paypal. This is what tempts people to want to use it, our lazy side tries to shine. And it just isn't worth it. Let me put it this way. Anything available on eBay, is most definitely going to be available elsewhere.

The UK and US eBay differs quite fairly. Type in "Pentaerythritol" or "Acetaldehyde" on ebay.co.uk.
Nothing right?
Then try it at ebay.com.
See what I mean?? Things you'll never see in a million years on the UK site, happen to be all over the USA one. Weird huh.

[Charles Owlen Picket]

There are actually two reasons why I'm personally, so adamant. The 1st is that I don't support (with my dollar) places that do things that are so grotesque to me politically that it's repulsive.... (Ebay & Mcdonnals w/ firearms, etc) and the 2nd is that I actually have been told by a trusted source that they OFFER material to LE agencies.

Law Enforcement eventually is a business like many, if you want to get promoted, you need to acquire "credit" to yourself. This is where it gets scary. The only arrests that "count" toward promotion generally are Felony arrests. If a good case can be made that the PROSECUTOR wants to go to trial with; you go to jail.

Do you know what has one of the highest conviction rates of all Federal arrests? Mail & wire related law breaking! Do you have ANY idea how complex the laws related to interstate transportation & fraud are? The "mail-cops" are some of the best educated guys around and they don't know the "book" by heart! Buy glassware & live in Texas & I'll bet that BOTH parties will suffer.

I would be willing to bet that there are some people on this board who remember "The Letter" from the CPSC. An outfit that USED the DEPT. of JUSTICE as a shill to scare the be-jesus out of those who made skyrockets. Most of their names came from one pyro company who got bullied...but some of it......came from Ebay...volunteering to help! The CPSC got Justice to loan them their stationary!!!!! The implications are incredible. "Hey, Bill; can I borrow your badge for a second? I just want to get a free lunch."

There are so many idiosyncratic laws that someone who "OFFERS UP" some poor slob will most likely get lucky & the poor fuck will be guilty of some shit (like buying preservative without a license to manufacture poultry items in the State of Nebraska). It shows you how little the need for binding evidence is that such a conviction rate (on a Federal level) is related to mail....and the lowest is murder! The prosecutor needs mountains of shit to want to hold over for pre-lim some jackass who kills, but watch out if you do the Nigerian Princess scam!!!