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Intrinsic
July 16th, 2008, 01:44 PM
Well it looks like the British have finally gone too far. Although I think the writing has been on the wall for some time now, with their invasive surveillance, it seem that now they are willing to take the final step, by logging everything you do in your life. Yes all in the name of fighting terrorism, your every step, purchase, and electronic communication will be logged forever.
The Home Office is proposing to detail every phone call, e-mail, text message, internet search and online purchase in the fight against terrorism and other serious crime.

Obviously if this passes, it will eventually be abused. Even if this is shot down, who's to say it won't happen subversively? They are already abusing their plate recognizing traffic cameras:
Since last year, the Government has been developing a central database which also records the details every time a car passes an ANPR camera, anywhere in Britain.

You know very well we in the US are not too far behind. It may not come in the next year or two, but sooner or later it will come. 1984 was mis-dated, perhaps 2024 would be a better guess. See you at the Ministry of Peace.


Here is the article:

Big Brother database recording all our calls, texts and e-mails will 'ruin British way of life'


Plans for a massive database snooping on the entire population were condemned yesterday as a ‘step too far for the British way of life’.

In an Orwellian move, the Home Office is proposing to detail every phone call, e-mail, text message, internet search and online purchase in the fight against terrorism and other serious crime.

But the privacy watchdog, Information Commissioner Richard Thomas, warned that the public’s traditional freedoms were under grave threat from creeping state surveillance.

Apart from the Government’s inability to hold data securely, he said the proposals raised ‘grave questions’.

‘Do the risks we face provide justification for such a scheme in the first place? Do we want the state to have details of more and more aspects of our private lives?

‘Whatever the benefits, would such a scheme amount to excessive surveillance? Would this be a step too far for the British way of life?’

It is thought the scheme would allow the police or MI5 to access the exact time when a phone call was made, the number dialled, the length of the call and, in the case of mobile phones, the location of the handset to within an accuracy of a few hundred yards.

Similarly for e-mails, it would provide details of when they were sent and who the recipients were. Police recovering a suspect’s computer would then be able to trawl through hard-drive records and recover particular messages. The content of telephone calls could not be recovered unless they were being intercepted at the time.

Mr Thomas’s warnings were backed by privacy campaigners, who claimed such Big Brother powers would give Government agencies unprecedented abilities to trawl through intimate details of ordinary people’s private lives at will.

He used the launch of his annual report to speak out after ministers signalled their intentions in their programme of legislation earlier this year, describing the new Bill as ‘modifying procedures for acquiring communications data’.

There are fears that the data will be shared with foreign governments – such as the Americans demanding personal details of air passengers – accessed by internet hackers or lost by bungling civil servants.

Opponents pointed out that town halls are already using extraordinary surveillance powers under the controversial Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act to investigate minor issues such as littering, or checking whether parents are abusing school catchment area rules, and they could be given access to almost unthinkable levels of personal data under the new scheme.

Currently police and MI5 can access customer records stored by telephone companies, but only with a warrant to examine individual accounts.

Mr Thomas said: ‘I am absolutely clear that the targeted and duly-authorised interception of the communications of suspects can be invaluable in the fight against terrorism and other serious crime.

‘But there needs to be the fullest public debate about the justification for, and implications of, a specially created database – potentially accessible to a wide range of law enforcement authorities – holding details of everyone’s telephone and internet communications.

'Do we really want the police, security services and other organs of the state to have access to more and more aspects of our private lives?’

Opposition MPs said the Government’s dismal records on safeguarding private data – most notably the loss of the entire child benefit database holding millions of people’s financial details – showed it was incapable of safeguarding such a vast volume of information safely, and the scheme should be dropped immediately.

An estimated 3billion emails are sent in Britain every day and last year 57billion text messages were sent.

The Home Office yesterday defended the need to keep its surveillance powers up to date with changing internet technology, and said full details of the plans would be published this year as part of a new Communications Data Bill.

Officials said the internet was rapidly revolutionising communications and it was vital for surveillance powers to keep up with technology in order to fight serious crime and terrorism.

DNA database

Britain's crime-fighting DNA database was the world’s first, in 1995, and is now the world’s largest.

Originally samples were taken from those arrested but destroyed if they were not convicted. Today anyone who is arrested - even if innocent - has DNA taken without consent, even if it has nothing to do with the case. It is added to the database, and stays there forever. It is virtually impossible to have it removed.

Unsurprisingly, new entries are being added at the rate of more than a million a year.

Number plate checks

Police forces use hundreds of Automatic Number Plate Recognition cameras across the UK, some at fixed sites and some in cars.

Computers are able to compare numbers with a national database of cars which may be stolen, or whose owners are wanted for questioning.

Each check takes around four seconds.

Since last year, the Government has been developing a central database which also records the details every time a car passes an ANPR camera, anywhere in Britain.


the original link:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1035361/Big-Brother-database-recording-calls-texts-e-mails-ruin-British-way-life.html

Emil
July 16th, 2008, 02:27 PM
You have to laugh at this. I heard this on the radio today. I mean, come on are they actually being serious?? This is the most pathetic thing I have heard all year, maybe even longer. Our government has a hard enough time keeping a few cd's worth of records, as they usually lose them. They really think they could even create such a system to house the sheer volume of information a country like the UK puts out on a daily basis.??

That isn't even the funny part though, it digusts me that they even think they have a right to monitor personal information and communication. It makes me feel sick. How dare they, who are they to be monitoring people like robots. I've almost heard enough from these power hungry pigs.

The British people gave them an easy enough time 20 odd years ago, when the ban on guns came into effect. I know the USA is a very pro gun country, but if they tried it there, the Americans would have none of it, and there would be politicians being thrown out of their seats left right and centre(literally). If they tried to introduce such a big brother system into place here, I think even the British would stand up and say no. To me it is a crime, and a very serious one at that. I take great offence at this, and would actually feel very threatened. I'm pretty sure this is not the position they want to be putting the population into. I have never liked corners of two walls, and I'm sure there are many who feel the same.

I have very serious doubts for this so called country, if you can even call it that anymore. I have no problem with the car system currently in place. Checking number plates etc. There is a genuine need for such a system of this type, due to the excessive car related crime, insurance and tax dodging. If there are drivers out there with no Insurance, tax and even sometimes licences, (which we know there are thousands) I want't them to be caught an punished hard. Why?? Becuase when that idiot hits my car and causes damage or injures me, I want to know that for starters he/she should be on the road in the first place, and secondly there is a legal means to have the problem sorted. Speed cameras I think however are a low point, every time I see a speed camera, I really see the picture of a Pig with money bills in both of his eyes. I also do not agree with them speed gunning by the side of roads.

2008 has already been one hell of a year, especially in the UK. So much has happened and continues to do so. What with all the tax, wages, petrol prices, strikes and the housing market. I see it crumbling every second. Like we don't have enough problems with all the doll scroungers and good for nothing immigrants flooding through the boarders undetected, they make us feel a little bit better by announcing they plan to lock me in a cage and point 20 cctv cameras at me 24 hours a day. How could I forget the chip in the back of my head, and tag around my ankle fixed with a tracker?? :rolleyes:

*lays back in leather chair, closes eyes and takes a sip of beer*

Bugger
July 16th, 2008, 08:37 PM
That is disgusting! What makes it even worse as a betrayal is that it has happened under a Labor Government, which Party has traditionally has been against such warrantless spying and eavesdropping because of the proven danger of its being used for political purposes by a dictatorial (usually right-wing) government. I notice that the Tories seem to be very quiet about the matter, so presumably they would make it even more pernicious if they were ever in power.

And guess who is going to pay for all that electronic snooping - the poor old British taxpayers, already grossly overtaxed in order to run existing eavesdropping and a military which is bloated for the size of the country. This comes hard on the heels of that Pig raid on all 7,000 safe-deposit boxes let out by a British security firm in London, practically all of which would have been used by quite innocent persons. Although I am eligible through parentage to live and work in the U.K. without limit, after this I would never contemplate it.

In the U$A, this sort of thing is, at least theoretically, prohibited as a warrantless search without any reasonable cause to believe that a crime has been committed, by the Fourth Amendment, which in conjunction with the First Amendment has been construed by the U$ $upreme Court as granting a broad right of privacy. The same applies here in New Zealand, and many other countries.

Rbick
July 17th, 2008, 09:47 AM
I have some simple answers for these stupid simple questions

Do the risks we face provide justification for such a scheme in the first place? Do we want the state to have details of more and more aspects of our private lives?
NO - No risks will ever justify the rape of peoples private lives. I would rather die in a car bombing that be monitored every day of my fricken life. Live free or die.

Whatever the benefits, would such a scheme amount to excessive surveillance?
YES - Obviously that is exactly what is being proposed!

Would this be a step too far for the British way of life?
YES

This is ridiculous. If I were in the UK, I would run around with a sling shot and a baseball bat destroying cameras left and right while wearing a ski mask. They have overstepped their bounds. Thankfully the US has the constitution to delay the implementation of such silly laws. For how long, I don't know, but it can't be for too long.

Probably the most damning is the DNA database. They are taking peoples DNA against their will and putting it on record. Are they insane!? I can understand if they are felons or do so voluntarily, but people who are innocent of any crime... Damn...

Intrinsic
July 17th, 2008, 12:54 PM
I have no problem with the car system currently in place. Checking number plates etc. There is a genuine need for such a system of this type, due to the excessive car related crime, insurance and tax dodging. If there are drivers out there with no Insurance, tax and even sometimes licences, (which we know there are thousands) I want't them to be caught an punished hard. Why?? Becuase when that idiot hits my car and causes damage or injures me, I want to know that for starters he/she should be on the road in the first place, and secondly there is a legal means to have the problem sorted.


Emil:
I think it is important to note, they are not just checking for tax/license/insurance invaders. If they do indeed log the plate details every time you drive by one of their cameras, they are essentially tracking your every movement. Every time you get in the car to go to the store, to work, to where ever you go, you are being tracked and logged for future reference.

Now I have no idea how ubiquitous these ANPR cameras are, but knowing that just London has over 500,000 cameras (surveillance, not just traffic), I am sure there are many, many of these ANPR cameras around all of Britain.

Rbick:
'Live free or die' just happens to my state's motto, it can be seen on every license plate. I enjoy traveling, and was in Florida this past winter (I drove), someone there commented about my plate to me: "live free or die? That's kinda dumb". All I could think to myself was "there are so many sheeple in the world".

Rbick
July 17th, 2008, 02:35 PM
Ah yes, New Hampshire. I have always wanted to drive there myself, but have never found the time :( The only part of the country I have never been is the North East. It is wonderful having such a large and beautiful country that people can experience every type of ecological system without ever having to get a passport. Not to mention the difference in cultures within our borders as well. Sorry, I was getting a little off topic.

Anyway, it doesn't surprise me that someone would think that "Live free or die" is stupid. I've noticed some people take the stance of "Ok good, now big brother can wipe my ass whenever I need it, so I don't need freedom because he knows whats best". Its a sickening mindset. I've heard the term sheeple used several times now, even on the show South Park. I always though Mega started that term? Did people start stealing it?

If they ever try to implement these types of security grids in the US, I will personally walk around and smash as many cameras as I can, before I get arrested.

Intrinsic
July 17th, 2008, 04:23 PM
According to wikipedia:

The Wall Street Journal first reported the label in print in 1984; the reporter heard the word used by the proprietor of an American Opinion bookstore affiliated with the John Birch Society.

1984! I had no idea the term 'sheeple' was that old! (The date is also a bit ironic too).

Jacks Complete
July 17th, 2008, 05:10 PM
The UK takes that step too far nearly every week.

Rights? No, you don't have any of those. Well, ok, you do, but only the ones we haven't gotten around to legislating against yet. We have a million civil servants working on it, though, so don't worry.

There are about 6 million people working directly or (mostly) indirectly for the government. Out of the 30 million or so who comprise the "workers" that's a hell of a lot of people to pay. The system needs some serious slimming down. And the lie about the 1 million unemployed? Well, it's a neat scam. After 6 months you stop being unemployed for the purposes of the list, so you vanish from the figures. Many go on the sick, some simply take up crime or get a cash-in-hand job and vanish from the system - at least for the terms of the unemployment figures.

I heard today that the government are going to stop the paperwork the cops have to do. I predict the shit is going to hit the fan now, if they truly are going to have an extra SEVEN MILLION manhours of police time a DAY extra! All the stupid, petty, crap laws that are never enforced because not one person cares, except the tossers who pushed for it to be law, will be enforced to a greater degree. Remove the limits on Stop & Search, legalise police harassment of people they deem to be "of interest", allow holding people without charge for 42 days (but they will push for more next year!), continue grabbing DNA off everyone, willing or not, suspect or not, etc., etc. and what will you have?

There are cameras all over the road network. The ANPR ones are strung all up the roadworks on the motorways, the M42, the M25, in different guises. But there is also the ANPR system that simply watches who goes past, all day and all night, simply filming who goes where and when - by for what? It's not for anything useful, imo. It is because they can. Every time I drive past a set of those cameras, I hate my country a little more. And what will you get?

There are two ways: Revolt and insurrection, or a police state lasting a thousand years.

Hirudinea
July 17th, 2008, 07:01 PM
I'm moving up north and living in a hole, not posh but at least its private.

Setharier
July 18th, 2008, 06:43 AM
Holy shit. Britain gov has really freaked out. But, what do you expect from country which has biggest surveillance camera system concerning about everything public, DNA register, limited civil rights, etc.. This is JUST like the time before Magna Carta, Britain hasn't learned a shit in nearly 800 years. That's a huge retrogation, I mean it is nearly as long time as the whole middle ages, the craphole of human history. "4children 4terrorism 4safety" etc blah blah. All they want is to do citizens more better workers for the system. I see there are many people who would just ruin the whole world culture, nations and history basis just for some money. Globalization, allowing sandmen come move to our lands and everything like this is just it and nothing else. Even the EU.

Ygarl
July 20th, 2008, 11:46 AM
I moved to the UK in 1988, and stayed here because I believed it to be more "free" than America:
More open-minded about individualism, more open about alternate lifestyles (punks, etc.), more casual about lifestyle in general (money-grubbing, nosy people, etc.).
How all THAT has changed the last 15 years!
The Public Order Act of 1994 has started all this, and it has been downhill continuously ever since!

I just have to convince my wife to move back to the US with my son...

It's just depressing.

AUK2k7
July 20th, 2008, 03:54 PM
I have lived in the UK all my life and I can assure you that it has got progressively worse over time, especially in the last 5 to 10 years. Originally, it was the Tories who tried to push ID cards and surveillance systems on us, mainly due to john major and his gimps, but at the time the labour government were completely against it. However, now the tables have turned and it is the Tories who are “against” ID cards and surveillance, or so David Cameroon says, although I never trust what politicians say, as all they do is change their opinion to conflict with whatever the opposition party thinks.

In response to peoples worries about the police taking DNA and fingerprints, you are only at the tip of the iceberg. In my school alone, they take your fingerprints, photograph and a completely unnecessary amount of personal information from every pupil as a means of “monitoring” the pupils in case of an emergency. They allowed the police to search the fingerprint database at my school when an unknown child had vandalized a nearby house. They arrested a mate of mine; however, it was not him who had vandalized the house, he just delivers papers there and the funniest thing is that they used the “2000 terrorism act” in order to obtain the information. They took his fingerprints, DNA and other stuff, even though he proved it wasn’t him as the incident occurred at 7 at night, when he was in a school award ceremony.

England is on the verge of totalitarianism, all we need is some power hungry leader to come in to control the sheeple as I don’t see Brown having enough balls to do it.