Remington 7600 pump rifle and lever action shotgun.

[Red Beret]

As some may have noticed, I am from australia. Here, we can't have auto loading rifles, or shotties, or anything with a mag capacity of more than 10 rounds.

Which is why I need opinions on the remington 7600 pump action rifle, and the lever action 12ga. They are the closest thing we can have to a semi-or fully automatic gun.

In respect to the Pump rifle;
Is it a solid reliable arm? I'm looking at .223 because it's cheap here and low recoil should allow more accurate follow up shots. On the other hand I'm a big fan of the .308win (7.62 NATO) for its accuracy and greater stopping power.
I will be buying a few mags with this too.

As for the lever action 12ga;
Has anyone tried one? Are they durable enough to run buckshot and heavy loads in? Is the action as strong as the advertisments say?

Thanks in advance.

[SafetyLast]

Australian gun laws are a horrible affair.
I used to own a remington 7400, in 30-06. They're along the same lines as the 7600 except semiauto. Unreliable and minute-of-watermelon accuracy. Not too sure if the 7600 would be any more accurate, but it's a pump gun so reliability shouldn't be a problem.
I've always wanted a cut down Winchester lever action shotty like Ah-nold in T2. Norinco makes a copy that's reasonably priced check that one out.

[Vitalis]

I have a Remington 7600 in 30-06, received as a gift. I must admit I haven't done all that much with it; I've fired maybe 50 rounds through it. It's reliable and for me, as accurate as one could expect from the iron sights it came with. I just bought a scope for it so when I have some extra time I'll see how accurate it can really be.

I didn't get a manual with it and for me it is time consuming to strip it down and clean/maintain it, but so far it seems pretty solid. That's all the info I can share right now, I've no experience with the .223.

[SafetyLast]

A few more things about the 7400 and 7600 rifles is that they have thin barrels and overheat quickly. My 7400 would get extremely hot after about 20 rounds and I would need to let it cool down for about 1/2 hour because the groups would open up a ridiculous amount. This may be different for the .223 however. And the mag release is absolutely crap, it's just a tiny nub that you have to push just right to get the mag out.
They are almost impossible to fully strip down because of the design of the receiver and the trigger has a needlessly heavy pull. The guns are what I would call 180 degrees from being "tactical".

Can you get the 7615 in Aus? It looks really dumb, but the AR mags cost about half of what the factory mags go for. (If it seems dumb but works it's not dumb) Not sure if they changed the mag release on that one or not.

[Red Beret]

Yeah we can get the 7615, was looking at that as I can get cheap .223 ammo, $8 for 20rnds. I guess I'm looking for a rifle that "could" be used as a home defence gun, or a gun to carry in your car to protect against rioting mobs. In a type of civil disaster type situation.

Would you go .223, and sacrifice the 7.62's stopping power for low recoil and quicker follow ups?

[Alexires]

Red Beret - In the case of civil emergency to such a scale that the army gets called out? Yes.

5.56 ammo will be lying around if the army gets called out and the rioters take some of them down (the situation where you probably need a weapon).

Assuming you are in a city, you probably wouldn't be engaging targets past 400m so you probably wouldn't need a 7.62's range. Don't know about stopping power though, can't really say one way or the other.

I'd go .223/5.56 personally, for the sake of ease of carry, amount of ammo, quicker shots (possibly important in a mob situation).

Then again, if army is called and they are getting taken down, then there would be stuff a lot better than 7615 lying around.....

[Code Red]

5.56 ammo will be lying around if the army gets called out and the rioters take some of them down (the situation where you probably need a weapon).


I'd go .223/5.56 personally, for the sake of ease of carry, amount of ammo, quicker shots (possibly important in a mob situation).



I think using 5.56 NATO ball ammunition in place of commercial .223 Remington isn't a good idea, as mentioned here:
http://www.thegunzone.com/556v223.html


Personally, if a bad situation was to ever break out, I'd be most comfortable with 2 pistols and a shotgun, if that was all I get could legally.

One semi-automatic for rapid fire needs, and one high calibre revolver for when the semi-auto jams or plays up.

The 12 gauge shotgun is the best crowd dispersing firearm ever made, when in an urban situation.

Close quarters combat, you can't beat the shotgun and pistol combination.
You won't need the centrefire rifle as you don't care for sniping people, you just need to move quickly and live.

Of course, ideal weapons would be the H&K MP-5, AK-47, M-16, etc etc, but I'm only talking about what Red Beret could obtain legally in Australia.

[SafetyLast]

You really can't beat a shotgun for personal protection/home defense.

the ammo is going to be a bit more expensive, but you probably won't shoot it as much as a rifle. I usually shoot about 25
rounds or so of 12ga per range session opposed to 70-100rds for .223.

I had a mishap about a year ago with my bushmaster AR and some bad lake city surplus ammo, ss109 green tips, probably more
than a decade old. The primer pushed the bullet about halfway down the tube where it was securely lodged and had to be
knocked out with a rod. The powder failed to ignite probably due to moisture from improper storage.
It was a bit of a scary situation and luckily I didn't fire off another round after manually ejecting the case.

Another thing I dislike about the remy's is that the bolt hold open is on the magazine which makes it a bit awkward to carry around. (Range officers becoming confused and the like)

[Cobalt.45]

While no one will dispute that there are differences between the chambers for the 5.56 NATO and the .223 Rem, I feel there's a certain amount of "conflict of interest" in that SAMMI is in the biz of promoting "sporting arms and ammo manufacturers".

I also believe the idea that the difference between 50K and 60K CUP will cause an imminent failure to be a bit over stated-

Quote from the Gun Zone site: "Additionally, SAAMI's Unsafe Arms and Ammunition Combinations Technical Data Sheet page states:
The .223 Remington is rated for a maximum of 50,000 CUP while the 5.56mm is rated for 60,000 CUP. That extra 10,000 CUP is likely sufficient to cause a failure in a chamber that's only rated for the "sporting" .223 Remington." (bold italics mine)

If this were in fact a problem of the magnitude that SAMMI states, I think there would be a whole lot of failures from hot reloads as well as from using 5.56 ammo. I know of no such rash of failures.

Demand for 5.56 ammo remains high and one can only assume that not all of it is being shot from "NATO" chambers.

I would suggest that the rifle be "listened to". Any sign of primers showing excessive pressure for instance, should be fair warning. Use your own best judgement and if unsure, err on the side of safety.

[m700m]

you can easely open the chamber to 5.56, and use both .223, and 5.56x45,/5.56 nato. all you would need is an carbide chamber cutter, as the Rem has no chrome in the chamber, or bore.

[Cobalt.45]

open the chamber to 5.56, and use both .223, and 5.56x45,/5.56 nato.So, you're saying it's "OK" to shoot NATO from a 5.56 chamber (but presumably not vice versa)?