Getting around x-ray machines

[paul88]

How would one get around these damned things?

[-=HeX=-]

How would you get around a x ray machine eh? Heres a answer for free... By using the search engine.

That means google and the internet in general, not just this site. I doubt you will last much longer here with one liner questions like that...

In order for this not to be a flame, I believe tinfoil wrapping then denim wrapping works great for bringing pellet guns in your hole luggage on planes.

[crazywhiteguy]

It would depend on what your trying to hide and who your trying to hide it from. There are a lot of materials that absorb and reflect the radiation from x-ray photography. If your hiding something like a shipment of pistol receivers worth about 150$ each and 20 of them you have a 3000$ investment to protect. Having a titanium box (eg. only) with a heavy lead liner would block all attempts to see inside. If you were trying to sneak something like a pistol into your luggage it would be much harder because the baggage checkers usually have the right to sift through any luggage they deem 'suspicious'. I was coming back from a trip to Poland six years ago when i got a notice saying that my luggage had been searched. I had a container full of salt purchased at a famous and beautiful salt mine. I don't know what they thought it was, but they found it suspicious enough to warrant a search

[paul88]

Hex, I did use search engines and nothing came up.
Hence why I asked a very informative bunch of people ( this forum )

So please, dont be a dick.

[Intrinsic]

I would say it depends where you are as to how vigilant the screeners are. It also depends what you are trying to smuggle onto the plane.

In the US I always seem to get caught with a bottle of water going through the x-ray machine (easily 12 or 15 times caught; they typically have told me they saw it, and open my bag to take it out and throw it away). I can only think of one instance that a bottle of water made it through in my bag. They once picked up on a small screwdriver (jeweler sized) I had in my bag and confiscated it.

I have found that in other countries it differs. Bottled water tends to make it through other countries airports, but many other countries are still quite vigilant on the x-ray machine. The Frankfurt, Germany airport I thought was the most security conscious: from what I saw all carry-on bags were cursorily hand checked, and all passengers were patted down as well (they did a through job at it too). In St. Petersburg, Russia my carry-on went through 3 (yes three!) x-ray machines (one at the entrance, one where you pick up your boarding pass, one at the gate as you board the plane). Coming back from my first trip I had some carved jade knickknacks in my bag, and it was hand searched after going through each x-ray machine. They saw what it was, said "souvenir?" and that was enough to satisfy.

So if you are trying to smuggle a gun I would say you're very probably going to have trouble. Paperwork and electronics I think you could get through easily. If you put something in a tinfoil wrapper, or a box that cannot be x-ray, they probably will get suspicious and do a hand search.

On a side note, my checked baggage has been searched almost every time I go through a Florida airport. (But never in other US airports). The TSA leaves a little note in the bag: "For security reasons....." :rolleyes:




I believe tinfoil wrapping then denim wrapping works great for bringing pellet guns in your hole luggage on planes.


Hex:
Did you mean carry-on, or checked bags?

I think that a pellet gun in your checked bag would be okay. You can have a real firearm in your checked bag as long as you tell the airline. (Although ammunition may be restricted).

[paul88]

It seems that method is out. How much trouble would one have trying to send something like a firearm through the mail as an example UPS, would the same security measures be applied?

[Intrinsic]

Sending stuff that I don't want the shipper to really know about, I tend to use the USPS's flat rate box. I have never sent a gun, or drugs or anything like that. I have sent a large sum of cash in a hollowed out book (to use as a general 'cover'), and put the cash inside the book. (Couple times with USPS, no problem).

The reason I use the USPS is that they tend to value their jobs a bit more. Federal job, plus they know well the penalties for mail tampering and mail theft. I once had a package 'disappear' from UPS. It also had cash in it. :(

I am assuming you are shipping within the US; remember that if you ship across a country's border that customs could (and they sometimes do) open up your package to make sure the contents are correctly declared.

Since the Anthrax attacks I suspect that some types of security has been set up by the shippers. I can't imaging that they x-ray every package though, that just seems unfeasible.

[Alexires]

Hey Paul. How about YOU stop being a dick yeah?

I just UTFSE and found something. Try "x ray detector defeating" for a search string.

Any more stupid one liner spoonfeeding questions like the 3 previous and you are gone. Tell a Senior Member he is a dick because you fail life and you are gone. He is senior because he hasn't asked stupid one liner spoonfeeding questions and gotten his ass banned (like you are in risk of doing).

If you think something doesn't work, explain why. If you searched and didn't find something, at least tell us what you searched for.

[-=HeX=-]

Intrisic: I meant hold luggage, (stuff that goes in the hold) but it was late and I made a typo. Obviously not carry on luggage, but later on I have a photo to post of whats in the frame of a supposedly 'Carry on luggage' bag I bought... its a huge, strong, sharp edged piece of steel that any terrorist could use as a weapon. and that gets through the xray every time...

Alexires: thanks for helping, its you mods that keep this site the high quality place it is.

[Intrinsic]

If one wanted to bomb or hijack a plane or even just kill everyone on board (via a dispersed poison, etc), in my opinion most contributing members here would have no problem figuring out many ways to do such an action.

I understand that being a passenger on an airplane is a good target for a terrorist, as you can't get off, the plane could crash, etc, but I think that if they are in fact continuing to target airplane then terrorists are being foolish. The fedgov has put so much money and manpower into protecting airports & planes, if the terrorists were smart they would change tactics.

Can you imagine what a couple of big roadside bombs going off every day would do to the confidence of the average driver? Two bombs, in different towns/cities every day? After a week or two I think most people would be very afraid to just drive to work. The US is a big country, I don't have any idea how many miles of road there is in the US that would need to be patrolled, inspecting everything suspicious on the side of the road (never mind buried bombs).

[paul88]

Alex and Hex, I made a "one liner" question because i was in a hurry as the computer i use is not mine. Also i called Hex a dick because I dont take kindly to such rudeness and thus i responded in a rude manner. However I do get where your coming from and i will better my posts in the future.

Now back too the topic.
Hex, where did you buy that bag you spoke of?

[Intrinsic]

paul88:
Just a suggestion but you should try to work on your i/I.
Also-
Hex, where did you buy that bag you spoke of?
is really just a one liner....

To answer your question though, you should go to your local discount store, or even the goodwill store or consignment shops to try to find used luggage with a metal bar in it.

If you couldn't find luggage with a metal bar, you could always make one. Just by taking out the plastic frame supports (in a small ridged framed bag) and replacing them with metal ones. You could probable even sharpen the edges into a makeshift sword type of weapon. Think the x-ray guy would confiscate the bag, but let you keep you stuff? "Here's a trash bag..." :rolleyes:


Edit:
I just reread Hex's post, I guess it might very well get past the x-ray guy.

[paul88]

I know, its a bad habit of mine to not correct my I's sadly.
I will work on it.

Would large tubing say the width of 2-3 inches be suspicious in a metal framed bag?

[Hirudinea]

For getting small things through X-Ray, empty out 35mm film canisters and put them in a film bag (which is lead lined to protect film from X-ray) or for somthing a little bigger hollow out a 35mm camera and ask if the screener not to put it through the X-ray machine because it will ruin your film, but this only works for small things.

[Intrinsic]

paul88:

2-3 inch diameter metal tube?? That is very big for a carry-on bag frame. What are you considering to smuggle? Remember that many larger airports have drug dogs on patrol in the terminal.

I suggest if you are serious about smuggling something that might be stuffed into a tube, follow the example of current drug mules - swallow the contraband in tied-off condoms. That way even if the dog hits on you, you have some sort of deniability, as with even a through search through your person and baggage won't turn up anything.


Hirudinea:

Although it has been many many years since I have flown with a traditional camera and film, I do recall at least one instance (1998) that the screener opened my camera bag for inspection, and took out the film from it's container (only one or two out of maybe a dozen).

[-=HeX=-]

Paul: sorry if I came off as rude, I dont take kindly to newbish questions and one liners very well ;) anyways I bought the bag in a camping shop called 'Millets' its a chain in ireland and england I believe. The bags brand name is 'Air land sea' and the metal piece is plate metal about 2 feet long and a inch and a half wide (Ill measure it tomorrow) and with pointy corners.

My cheap generic rucksack also has a steel tube back support, it is in the middle, where your spine is, and about 2 feet long or so too. It makes a awesome smashing weapon :D pictures to come soon.

[paul88]

Hex, I do not intend to smuggle anything over sea's.
I do not deal with any sort of drugs or alcohol.
What I am wanting to send is metal, that may or may not be in the shape of a firearm to one state to another.

Also thank you for the information, I appreciate it.

[Secong Nature]

It's simple enough to dismantle small metal parts and hide them of your person.
A knifeblade can fit behind your fly (done this to avoid getting frisked before, but not with x-ray), a fake bulky watch could hold a mechanasm, etc.

[Intrinsic]

Not sure if you have seen it in the news is the past couple years, but a few airports are introducing a type of body imaging machine.

I don't believe it is actually a 'x-ray' (it uses millimeter size waves to completely image your body), but it has the capability to see any had object you are concealing on your body. So although that ceramic or plastic knife might make it through the metal detector, it won't get through this machine.

It has obvious privacy issues, as the screeners can actually see through your clothes. They claim to blur your face while going through the machine, and destroy the image after a period of time. It can pick up on thing inside you body too, implants etc.


The whole body imaging machines are already in use in Los Angeles, New York's JFK, Baltimore-Washington, Denver, Albuquerque, Ronald Reagan Washington, Detroit, Dallas-Fort Worth and Phoenix Sky-Harbor, Washington Dulles and Las Vegas airports.

Other airports that will get the new machines in the coming months include Chicago O'Hare, Atlanta, Newark, Boston, Indianapolis, New York LaGuardia, Tampa, San Juan and San Francisco, the TSA said.

[Alexires]

It seems the paul88 cannot even follow the simplest of instructions, so he isn't around anymore.... Probably cut his own balls off trying to hide a knife in his pants.

Intrinsic - Is that perhaps the same kind of technology the UK piggies are looking at using for the same purpose (to see knives/weapons on the general populace)?

Of course it wouldn't be used for the violation of privacy and the pictures would be deleted after a time.....after a hotter chick walks through the machine.

[Intrinsic]

Alexires:
I suspect it is the same technology. When a metal detector isn't invasive enough - or maybe the screeners just want some quick peeks. There are all sorts of 'upskirts' videos floating around; how long before an enterprising screener gets an idea....

Introducing new technology that has privacy issues is a very slippery slope. Sure this is wonderful in the airport. But how long before this is used to screen people entering a courthouse? The post office, library - any public building is fair game. There are metal detectors in many schools today; when will these machines become necessary 'for the public safety'?

Just like traffic cameras that started out at intersections the catch the people running red lights. They work great right? Soon there is a speed camera every couple miles, every time the speed limit changes. It has already happened in the UK, the US will be following along in short order. As soon as municipalities realize how much they could add to their coffers - a permanent unmanned speed trap! Here's a link to what some British people think of their traffic cameras: (it's a very, very big page; lotsa graphics!)

http://www.speedcam.co.uk/gatso2.htm

[iHME]

Alexires:
...There are all sorts of 'upskirts' videos floating around; how long before an enterprising screener gets an idea....

...There are metal detectors in many schools today; when will these machines become necessary 'for the public safety'?...


That would make a huge PR hell, just think what would happen when the screener looking the terahertz machine that looks trough clothes is found to be a pedo, at the school? Also, the face and erogenous areas blurring is just software that has been later introduced, how long would it take to work around the limitations?

And just thinking about how much porn would that create?
If it kicks of I'm rather sure that we will see interesting videos in the future, just think what would happen if some one smuggled one of those in to a court room ;)

The technology is here, it is only a matter of time when it will be implemented.

[Code Red]

With the "see through" imaging which is being used in airports, you can refuse to walk through it if you are one of unfortunate randoms to be picked.

Instead, you will get a "up close and personal" search by a member of the same sex, in a private room.

This applies in the U.S.A, not sure about other countries where this technology is implemented.

Most countries have never really cared about what is sent out by plane or ship, but care a hell of alot as to what's being brought in.

[-=HeX=-]

I remember reading about a sony handycam that used an infra red light for night vision. Apparently this was able to see through clothes and was rapidly pulled from the market due to privacy reasons. However I bet there are a few on ebay.. I cant remember the site I read it on though, it was back last august.

that was a major shitstorm apparently, but its night vision was supposedly amazing. I wonder if it could be replicated by the hobbyist.

[Hirudinea]

Hirudinea:

Although it has been many many years since I have flown with a traditional camera and film, I do recall at least one instance (1998) that the screener opened my camera bag for inspection, and took out the film from it's container (only one or two out of maybe a dozen).

And thats the point with all airport security, if the people manning the security are vigilant its hard to get anything by them, if they don't give a shit you can get an elephant carrying 1/2 a ton of heroin past them. If your serious about smuggling you have to go through the airport secutiry and see how vigilant they staff are, study the security.

[megalomania]

paul88, it's not what you ask, it's how you ask it. You never demonstrated the research you did to answer your question, never mentioned you did a web search, you just blurted out a open ended question. What kind of x-ray machine are you talking about? Do you have a broken arm? Checking for cracks in steel? Smuggling human sex slaves in freight cars? That you have limited time on the computer is no excuse. NBK used to walk miles every day to get to the library to make Forum posts, and he still posted quality material. I might add, you posted this question in the wrong section for a thread of this type to boot. Off you go then...

[monkeyboy]

I remember reading about a sony handycam that used an infra red light for night vision. Apparently this was able to see through clothes and was rapidly pulled from the market due to privacy reasons. However I bet there are a few on ebay.. I cant remember the site I read it on though, it was back last august.

that was a major shitstorm apparently, but its night vision was supposedly amazing. I wonder if it could be replicated by the hobbyist.

I have one. It seems that all ccds are extremely sensitive to near infrared light. So, they come with a permanently affixed filter. The sony handycam had a mechaical slide that let you move the filter out of the way. Allows better sensitivity in low light conditions. If you use it in the daylight, with the addition of a filter that drops the visible light, you get the "x-ray" effect.
Later models, like mine, have a micro-switch that prevents them from using nightshot mode in daylight. I located a work around that suggested removing the switch, which would leave it permanently in nighshot mode. So I added another microswitch, so I can toggle the sony switch in or out of the circuit, as needed. Even later models used digital sensors & software to disable it, but there are still work arounds for it.

The pics really aren't that impressive, more of a "yeah, I hacked my camera" thing. Making it do thermal imaging would've been way cooler.

http://www.x-raycameras.com/

[joffe]

If you wrap something in in a container that the scanner can't see through, a half a decent scanner operator will physically inspect the item. And these days, you can be pretty sure he/she will. Hiding an item behind a metal bar won't do much good when the suitcase/whatever is scanned from several angles.

A knife blade behind your fly is probably not a very good idea as scanners are usually finely tuned at the groin area, and if the machine still beeps after you've removed your belt, you will be subject to closer scrutiny.

So Paul88, even though you can't reply (which is a good thing), listen to uncle joffe: Don't attempt to bypass these machines, you're simply not up to it. (If you were, you wouldn't have to ask on this forum). And don't attempt to "test" the system. You'll discover that the authorities have no sense of humor whatsoever if you're caught.

[Jacks Complete]

joffe, no, no, Paul88 *should* test it out. Then he can tell us in ten years time how it went. ;-)

Backscatter X-ray can see through a steel safe or shipping container.

Millimetre wave scanning shows through anything less than ~5mm thick that is non-metallic without any issue at all, and metals give off this radiation all the time, so guns, knives, etc. seem to glow.

Airport X-ray machines for baggage and hand luggage use a 3D imaging system these days, and so unless you wrap it in something, it will get seen. You cannot put things "under" something else.

I've carried "weapons" all my life, but always have a reasonable excuse, and I hide it to reduce the risk of being asked to explain. Keeps life simpler. I've not tried running through an airport recently, though. Seems like it would be a hiding to nothing, and even if I got stuff through, so what? I'm no plane hijacker.

[James]

From what I infer the answer to Pauls question is probably to simply bypass the thing by shipiing the 'device' by another route. I don't really see why they couldn't scan 'every' package. (Assuming they don't mind investing in the necessary hardware training etc. probably scanning at entry and exit from the system) One way of bypassing it it to suborn the human element (is his situation he's probably facing TSA employees who are no doubt highly paid yet horribly underpaid)

[Merck]

I have heard, though cannot personally confirm, that a weapon such as a pistol will sail through an x-ray when embedded in a block of crystal. This was pre-911 when things weren't so tight, and I don't know any handy reason to have a crystal brick in your carry on that they shouldn't look at closer. I believe it could not have ammo. Maybe the lead, but this possible method is only being mentioned as I have heard of it in use & it was not mentioned here.
As for having 2" or 3" pipe or some such, that would count as altered luggage. Probably attract attention. These people stare at luggage all day, few people build their own.

[Positron]

Here is something that might be of interest to all of you.

I carry a small backpack with me at all times. The main items in it are a digital camera, a Garmin handheld GPS, and a calculator. The items that are of interest to airport security, are...are you ready?

1. One set of small J-B Qwik epoxy tubes (epoxy and hardener)
2. A CRKT 3" pocket knife
3. A very small, basic, Victorinox Swiss Army knife
4. A small pair of vice grips
5. Two electrical clipcords
6. A cordless, butane-powered Weller soldering iron, solder, and tips
7. Extra batteries

Before I tell all...Does anyone want to take a guess at the luck I've had with airport security???

[Alexires]

Merck - I suppose that is possible, as a crystal lattice can diffract x-rays, giving an indefinite picture of what is inside the crystal. See here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-ray_crystallography).

It would be possible to work out what kind of crystal lattice you would need using some basic physics equations, but I don't know if it would get past air port security. One way to find out I suppose.....slip it into someone else's luggage.

[Positron]

If you wrap something in in a container that the scanner can't see through, a half a decent scanner operator will physically inspect the item. And these days, you can be pretty sure he/she will.

Negative. I got through security lines with the above-listed items at LAX, DFW, IAH, RDU, LAS, and ATL airports. I actually went through LAX 8 or 10 times with this bag. At first I was worried I'd lose them, but now I NEVER worry about having a big ass knife on me when going through airport security.

The only airport that I ever had a problem with was Las Vegas. To my utter surprise, they found my CRKT knife in the bag with the x-ray machine. So...I gave the knife to someone who looked like he could use it, then promptly got back in the same security line with the same security goon. I went straight through, no problems, with the same bag with all those items (including the other knife) in it.

Side note: The only important change that I've seen in airport security, is that they've disallowed carrying liquids through the security lines. Pretty smart really, considering certain organic peroxides that can be made with clear liquids, and the use of these by extreme religious bastards.

[Rbick]

Interesting story: On one of my previous flights about 2 years ago I had packed for my trip home but had mixed a few checked bag items with my carry on items. After arriving home and unpacking, I discovered that I had flown with a 6 inch Ka-bar fighting knife in my carry on bag. I had flown from Seattle, WA to a destination in the Mid-West and never got caught. Needless to say, I was surprised. Guess I had a lazy guy behind the x-ray machine...

I remember a story a while back where some guys tried to sneak explosives onto a plane by hiding the material in hollowed out batteries. They were caught, but not for the reason of the batteries being discovered. If you're trying to smuggle solid but flexible material, I suppose this could be an option. A little bag of Mary Jane slipped into a hollowed battery inside your portable CD player probably wouldn't be noticed :D

[joffe]

A little bag of Mary Jane slipped into a hollowed battery inside your portable CD player probably wouldn't be noticed

I don't smuggle shit, and after my last annual trip to France, I'm not even about to contemplate it. I landed as usual at Nimes Airport - a small provincional airport, and what do you know! They've got a narcotics dog! Not only was there a dog there when I arrived, but they had a different dog when I departed. When they have dogs at a small unimportant airport like that, what can we expect at larger airports?

Another example. I used to be a pretty active competition shooter, and on a trip to London I carried a bag I had used to keep ammunition in on a handgun match I had competed in a couple of days earlier. I caught the attention of a bomb dog and was taken aside and given a thorough search and even though they didn't find anything, I had to tell where the competition took place, etc. and after a couple of hours, when they had time to check my story, I was released. But at least they behaved like gentlemen and I was given a lift to the hotel were I was staying.

[Ygarl]

I have heard, though cannot personally confirm, that a weapon such as a pistol will sail through an x-ray when embedded in a block of crystal. This was pre-911 when things weren't so tight, and I don't know any handy reason to have a crystal brick in your carry on that they shouldn't look at closer. I believe it could not have ammo. Maybe the lead, but this possible method is only being mentioned as I have heard of it in use & it was not mentioned here.
As for having 2" or 3" pipe or some such, that would count as altered luggage. Probably attract attention. These people stare at luggage all day, few people build their own.

Even the air freight machines UPS and air frieght companies use in the UK would see either a suspicious "black" inexplicable item to be hand-searched, or it would look like a blue-black handgun in a lighter blue block - depending entirely on the density of the crystal to x-ray radiation.

Millimetre wave radar would see any items larger than a marble - and in 3d as well.

You want to smuggle things through an airport or on an airplane, you are going to need huge amounts of luck or an inside man...

That's about it really...:D