Self-ignition or accidential explosion of AP

[rcfan1]

Most people on this board have already produced AP. Most people do not like AP because they say it would/could self-ignite due to crystal tension or any other chemical instabilities.

I'd like to know how many times there was actually an ignition/detonation of pure AP, be it the dimer or trimer as we can't exactly tell anyway without IR/NMR equipment. If you reply in this post with "yes" or a number of self-igition you have witnessed, please also write how many samples you produced that did not go off.

I know AP is very sensitive but if it doesn't go off by itself, it would still be a nice primary which could safely be produced in ranges from 1-3g with proper caution.

I have never personally seen a self-ignition and most people only repeat what they heard from someone else or some obscure source on the Internet, so I asked myself if the "self-ignition" of AP was government propaganda so people don't use it in caps/as primary.

The fact if a sensitive explosive goes off by itself or not is to me the most important if not the only measure if it can be used as a primary. If AP is just sensitive - fine, it can be handled under the neccessary precautions by people who know what they do. If AP sometimes goes off by itself, it can never be used as primary because there would be a chance that it sets off the secondary by itself.

Again, please only post in this thread if you have either seen self-ignition of *pure* AP yourself or if you have produced great batches of AP without anything going wrong or if you can provide real scientific proof that AP goes off itself. Please no dimer/trimer discussions :)

[rcfan1]

I’m gonna ignore your admonishment to “only post if…” line:rolleyes:, I don’t obey such directives from junior members.

It isn't a directive but an appeal to do so. It does not make any sense for amateur chemists to talk about molecule structures without any of the neccessary equipment to actually find out, yet there are hundreds if not thousands of posts on this and other boards consisting of nothing but proofless conjecture if it's 3 or 2 acetone molecules in the white powder in the bathroom.

ALL of your questions pertaining to TATP can be answered by UTFSE, except for the useless info about witnessing (or not) spontaneous combustion of it, how many have or have not been bitten, who made how much, etc.

That's statistics, and that's the point of my investigation. I need to find out the possibility of AP going off by itself and this task get's done best by collecting as much data as possible.

Compiling a list or ratio of accidents to usage proves nothing.

As already said, I do not want a list of accidents but these special ones where the user was not involved. People talk about AP getting off by itself and I want to know if it's just a rumour someone started and hundreds repeated, or not.

Just ask phone- oh yea, that's right- he's DEAD.

Even for phone, chances are quite high that AP didn't go off by itself. When the AP didn't go off soon enough, he got anxious and walked to the place where he put it for inspection and most likely reignition of a now far too short fuse. The same could have happened to him with 1kg of Lead Azide.

BTW, not to be too much of a smart-ass, but AFAIK there's no such thing as "going off by itself". An unwanted ignition of TATP can occur when the limits of stability have been breached.

Not going itself alone, but within it's normal usage conditions. For example, some molecules are prone to decay when exposed to UV radiation. This isn't a problem itself but when the molecule is very unstable and the decay releases energy, a breakup of a molecule at a critical place in the crystal can cause a chain reaction. This crystal could be stable at daylight 1000 times but the 1001 time it goes off, and this is what I would call spontaneous self-ignition which happens when an otherwise "stable" molecule can break up without any change in the parameters of it's environmental system.

[totenkov]

For a minute I thought this post was in the AP thread, but no, Kewl n00b with with his l33t skillZ has asked for help about how sensitive AP is. Having the gall to start a thread on it! How many goddamn essays and posts have been written on this exact topic, only to have another thread started on it by some fool who is either too pussy to make it himself, or is to stupid to search around for the info he is looking for.

The forum is always reinventing itself, moving forward by the means of intricately designed posts, filled with specifics, dimensions and amounts. So when Mr. rcfan1 comes along, eager to rack his post count and show the world that he to has made the all amazing and powerful AP, we get pissed off.

You will not be posting anything more in this topic, rcfan1 Do not come back and start flaming about "how to make teh aP" or its a ban, watch your next posts or they will be your last.

[rcfan1]

For a minute I thought this post was in the AP thread, but no, Kewl n00b with with his l33t skillZ has asked for help about how sensitive AP is.

What is your purpose on this forum? Flaming?

I never asked for the sensitivity of AP! Read what other people write before replying. Selfignition and sensitivity are two very different properties. For example, NI3 is very prone to self-ignition. On the other hand, primaries like lead azide or even silver azide are very sensitive but do not ignite without a change in the exterior system. This is because they are sensitive but stable. I asked for the stability of AP, not for the sensitivity. If there is a real scientific essay about the actual stability of AP in standard conditions I admit that I was not able to find one and ask you who is calling me "k3wl" or "l33t" to show me where it is. If not, I wonder about your manners.



either too pussy to make it himself, or is to stupid to search around for the info he is looking for.

Again, I did not ask for a how-to but for scientific facts. I wonder if you ever had some chemistry education, judging by these prejudices..


The forum is always reinventing itself

A reason for this are 20 pages long threads about AP without any real facts. But as long as you have your "no new threads" rule you're satisfied, right? Regardless what's actually inside the thread, you read "AP", think "omg omg lolz" and start flaming it seems to me.


So when Mr. rcfan1 comes along, eager to rack his post count and show the world that he to has made the all amazing and powerful AP, we get pissed off.

To be honest I don't care much about this board. The best thing of the whole site are megalomanias practical synthesis instructions but even these can be found elsewhere. I came here to find some serious information and now I wonder why you don't reply with some but only flame and let your sick imagination play, thinking of "pussys" spitting out huge amounts of AP. Or did you mean something else with that:



pussy to make it himself



Do not[/B][/U] come back and start flaming about "how to make teh aP"

Again, your imagination is at play. I never wrote "how to make teh aP" and actually, it's you who makes spelling errors:

is to stupid

I wish you much fun banning me if you want. You can then enjoy your leetness and coolness presenting "intricately designed posts, filled with specifics, dimensions and amounts" which somehow seem to be either invisible or almost non-existant on this board :rolleyes:

_____________

TO THE CLIFFS! :D

[-=HeX=-]

I need to find out the possibility of AP going off by itself and this task get's done best by collecting as much data as possible.

As already said, I do not want a list of accidents but these special ones where the user was not involved. People talk about AP getting off by itself and I want to know if it's just a rumour someone started and hundreds repeated, or not.

The same could have happened to him with 1kg of Lead Azide.


Jesus, what a retard!

As to point 1, an old member here, Anthony (A mod) had some AP go off, BY ITSELF!

My TATP accident was because of faulty visco, but still, I have found it EXCESSIVELY DANGEROUS TO WORK WITH. Trust me, I have A LOT of experience, only today me and my father 'disposed' of a 70 gram batch, in one go, and transporting the charge 1.5 miles by car made me break into a cold sweat. Never again will I be making AP, its too hard to use, but the disposal WAS satisfying :D

As for the lead Azide comment, I highly doubt that because... Phone was incapable of even synthing 1 gram of lead azide, Lead azide is quite insensitive to fuse in my experience, I use a lead styphinate 'flash charge' to help it along, and the odds of the Lead Azide going off from the kick he supposidly gave the bomb are low as fuck, however the TATP would gladly blow from a kick.

And SOME of us here DO have access to the machines required to determine molecular data and crystal data.

Try some tests yourself, retard.

[megalomania]

Now where did I put that hammer, oh there it is...

WHACK!

WHACK!

WHACK!

(mega stands back to admire his handiwork...)

the sign reads:Don't Feed the Trolls!

Does anyone else find it rather ironic that many people will read my post here in its entirety, but I only skimmed the first few lines of what's his name post before I banned him? I certainly find it funny :)

*YAWN* I'm getting bored of this game. You were way to easy to spot, the rhetoric was a little over the top, and I recognize your writing style.

I spent 5 hours straight today gathering references on dozens of explosives for the site. I hope your day was as productively spent playing at whatever game this is?