A Place Called Chiapas

[Hinckleyforpresident]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4513202692382805096

I highly recommend that everyone watches it, it explains the effects of NAFTA in Mexico, the EZLN revolutionary movement, the condition of the native people of Chiapas, and the state supported terrorist campaigns against the Mexican people in Chiapas.

[Cobalt.45]

Damn, I liked to have nodded off five times during this tape!

But, yeah, life sucks to be a Mexican indian in Chiapas. But their problem lies more w/the corrupt Mex government than NAFTA, IMO. Besides, they go in and take over all the farms- then do what? NADA, except cry that now they are REALLY broke, have no jobs, etc.

Poor planning there, Marcos!!!

What wasn't mentioned and I have no documentation of, but highly suspect, is the probability that dope smuggled into the US is how this little fiasco is being paid for.

[Hinckleyforpresident]

What wasn't mentioned and I have no documentation of, but highly suspect, is the probability that dope smuggled into the US is how this little fiasco is being paid for.

Absolutely not. Not only is this against the primary zapatiza laws, but if they had drug money behind them, they would be winning.

Having been there several times, I can say from first hand experience that Chiapas is certainly not a good place to grow any sorts of drugs. It's a very high altitude dry/wet warm/COLD part of the country. Even coca doesn't grow well there. and like a I said earlier: If they had drug money they would have more guns.

But, yeah, life sucks to be a Mexican indian in Chiapas. But their problem lies more w/the corrupt Mex government than NAFTA, IMO. Besides, they go in and take over all the farms- then do what? NADA, except cry that now they are REALLY broke, have no jobs, etc.

Poor planning there, Marcos!!!


It appears you missed a big part of the movie here...... They didn't sit on their asses and complain, they had an armed revolt that lead to several cities being occupied by EZLN forces until the Mexican army drove them out. That was the whole point of the armed revolt: to try and stop the government from taking their farms and to fight against the new laws NAFTA imposed. They don't have guns just to be stylish.

Them fighting back is certainly much better than I can say for our western civ counterparts.... Look at what happens when we lose our rights nowadays, we sit and bitch. At least there are groups somewhere in the world that won't sit on their asses and take it so easily.

Also, at this point a decent amount of the state of Chiapas is officially "Zapatista country". The army doesn't go in so long as things stay peaceful. The EZLN is the government in these regions.

[Cobalt.45]

Maybe a differing perception of things, but as I see it, they took away productive farms from the legal owners (who may or may not be part of the prob.) but then they did NADA w/the land and farms.

One scene that illustrates this is the young dude standing there w/finger up ass (post "take-over"), lamenting that "over there will be a school (motions to a patch of dirt)" and "there (points at more dirt) will be a sports field. We need to have some fun, too."

There needed to have been a plan for continued production from the existing farms they took. THERE would have been the money that they need. But by all appearances, they didn't. If that's the case, that was poor planning/execution, IMO.

[Hinckleyforpresident]

Maybe a differing perception of things, but as I see it, they took away productive farms from the legal owners (who may or may not be part of the prob.) but then they did NADA w/the land and farms.


First off, the "legal owners" in question were multinational corporations who have been stealing land from its traditional owners by force for the past couple hundred years. If some foreign asshole came and took my house and all of my property by threatening me, I think I'd be pretty just in whipping his ass and sending him home.

Second, they are in fact farming much of the land that they reclaimed. The area is very mountainous and has poor soil, so not everywhere can support crops.


One scene that illustrates this is the young dude standing there w/finger up ass (post "take-over"), lamenting that "over there will be a school (motions to a patch of dirt)" and "there (points at more dirt) will be a sports field. We need to have some fun, too."

Education is one of the most important resources to have around... So I don't see any problems with building a school on a vacant stop of mostly un-fertile land.

The demand of education is one of their primary goals: (from the First Declaration of the Lacandon Jungle)
Therefore we ask for your participation, your decision to support this plan that struggles for work, land, housing, food, health care, education, independence, freedom, democracy, justice and peace. We declare that we will not stop fighting until the basic demands of our people have been met by forming a government of our country that is free and democratic.

Here is a link to the whole thing: First Declaration of the Lacandon Jungle (http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/4941/chiapas.html)

[Cobalt.45]

Education is one of the most important resources...Yes, it is.

What stuck out is the lack of productivity that was portrayed by the Canadian sympathizers. No mention was made in the film about utilization of the seized farms.The guy who I was referring to, hadn't so much as drawn an outline in the dirt. No plans, just a vague concept of things that they wanted. Nowhere was shown any construction or cultivation, other than Marcos cultivating his image.:p

Grab a shovel and start digging!!! Mount a crew and DO something, is what I'm saying. It's as though they were surprised and unprepared for their overwhelming success, thinking that they would go in, kick some ass, burn the place down and then be evicted. But when they found themselves the "sole survivor", they drew a blank.

Other than wanton destruction, there was no sense in destroying the farmhouse that was shown, for instance. If they intended to continue farming, why would they destroy the buildings?:confused: Reminded me of the LA riots after the rodney king beating. Again, no planning, IMO.

The reasons behind this uprising are admirable, no doubt. They did take things to their gov., and for that I applaud them. But they fell short of the ideal when they had no apparent plans for what to do, post seizure. Hopefully, this was short-term, and full production has been reestablished.