L-300 carbine

[cutefix]

There is a gun called LR-300 which was made by Z-M weapons.This particular weapon was derived from the AR-15.Therefore it fires 5.56 mm ammunition.This LR-300 can be also fired in semi-auto and in full automatic mode.It was reputed to be better than AR-15.I would like to know if somebody has tested this carbine,and how does it rate in over all performance.

[This message has been edited by cutefix (edited July 29, 2001).]

[Heavy Recoil]

Isnt there a canadian gun that is a ar15/m16 variant that is select fire, c16 or something like that, but I may be wrong. ask AR15 man

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"I'm not an assassin. killing is more of a hobby with me."' Robert A. Heinlein

[AR-15 Man]

Yea it is related to the AR but expect it uses a piston other than the ARs direct gas system. This adds some weight but it might be more reliable. It also allows you to have a folding stock. This would make shorter barreled ARs function like they should. I think the damn thing cost to much. If you are worried about reliablity get a well made AR-15 not some mix and match philpino parts gun. Also they may need a break in period and use only USGI mags. If you have the money for a ZM-Weapons LR-3000 and you still want more reliablity get a damn Valmet. It will be heavy and not as accurate at the AR but the Valmet is what the AK should be. Also the full auto Canadian M-16 is the C7 I do believe. It uses an A-1 site with A-2 lower. It uses the M-16A1 trigger group.

[This message has been edited by AR-15 Man (edited July 29, 2001).]

[AR-15 Man]

Something I forgot to add. If you give me what you need in a weapon and your level of training I can ussually recommend a good one. But it all comes down to how you like the feel of the gun.

[cutefix]

I am familiar with M-16 and with the, grenade launcher (M-203 combination),did have some infantry training with this weapon years back. I was looking for new developments of this .223 weapon,and one of my friends in the army,recommended to see this LR-300 which according to him was a dramatic improvement of the weapon system of the 5.56 caliber.I was interested to see and try if myself,however,I want other opinion from knowledgeable weapon experts in The Forum.Somehow now I had a feeling that this Z-M weapon was overrated,because if this is really good it could have been very popular by now.I am not a great fan for the AK and I had fired it myself a few times,when I was in Asia.If I had to choose for 7.62 caliber I would settle for the M-14,and not an AK models,which is inferior in its ammunition quality and accuracy.
Thanks for your assesment AR-15 man,I realize its not worth, to waste money on that LR-300.

[AR-15 Man]

Well, try the Robinson Armaments Expeditionary rifle. It is based off the Stoner 63 and it runs about 1200, has quick change barrels and they are coming out with belt feed version soon and they already have top fed ones like the Bren. It uses M-16 mags. Or Armalite has reintroduced the AR-180 which is around 600 dollars. It also uses M-16 mags and can use AR trigger parts. It is a piston type gun of Eugene Stoners. Both of these are well made and both are worth the price. If you want versatility get the Robinson rifle. If you want just one plain Jane rifle get the AR-180. Also understand Valmets are a VAST improvment over the standard AK-47 rifle. But they are pricey along with the mags for .223 and .308. You can get .308, 7.62x39 and .223. Also if you like AR type controls have you looked at the AR-10 but mags are pricey. But still close to the price of M-14 mags. Also look at decently made fals on an IMBEL reciever. Not that Century Arms international JUNK well most CAI are junk. Also look at the newly imported G-3s and CEMTE which are both related and use the same mag and use .308. If you don't live in the USA sorry for teasing you about what we can get.




[This message has been edited by AR-15 Man (edited August 02, 2001).]

[angelo]

AR-15 Man,
if you want a good resource for pictures of firearms go to: http://www.securityarms.com

I've been going there for ages and have found every weapon I was looking for.

You probably already know of this site from my other posts or you already knew about it before I opened my mouth.

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angelo's place (http://hop.to/angelo) | have a good link? add it here (http://pub16.bravenet.com/freelink/show.php?usernum=1307442656) | go to the OZ Forum (http://pub75.ezboard.com/bozforum97164)

[AR-15 Man]

Yea I have been there long before I ever found the Forum. It is a great resource. I just wish they had more details on some of the guns.

[Heavy Recoil]

I knew it was c something

Stoner or expeditionary rifle pics and info here www.Biggerhammer.net (http://www.Biggerhammer.net)

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"I'm not an assassin. killing is more of a hobby with me."' Robert A. Heinlein

[This message has been edited by Heavy Recoil (edited August 03, 2001).]

[cutefix]

There are a lot of rifles that uses 7.62x51 ammunition.Even Russia is producing its own version for this ammunition category(AK-.308VEPR rifle) for export purposes.I have particular penchant for the M-14 because I have used it well for long distance shooting ( about 500 meters and sometimes longer);one thing I dislike only is its barrel is prone to overheating affecting shot accuracy.I have seen samples of FN-FAL and it looks impressive,and was once used by the British Forces(I just don’t understand why the Brits replace it with the unreliable SA-80).The FAL give impressive performance during the war in Malaya and Oman campaign.I had seen also samples of the German G-3 and CETME Spanish rifle.I heard that the latter is not a good gun and the Spanish forces are looking for a replacement.I would like to ask if you had any knowledge of a really robust rifle of this category.I was thinking if the M-14 normal barrel were replaced with a heavier match type, would it improved its robustness.
I might just have to obtain that sniper version of the M-14,complete with its accesories if its still available.

[This message has been edited by cutefix (edited August 05, 2001).]

[AR-15 Man]

Well, if your heart is set on .308 then get an M1A. The civie M-14. You can still get them new from Springfield armory. The also still have the loaded package. This lets pick 1000 dollars worth of accessories for the rifle for free. As for the VEPR yea you can get one of them in pistol grip form by the same people who sell the Expeditionary rifle Robinson Armaments. But no HiCap mags. Unless you want to convert 50-80 dollar GALIL mags. And for the same price you can get a FAL, G-3 or CEMTE. Oh yea the CEMTE in this country are almost brand new. It is the predessor of the G-3. Oh yea as for FALs the top of the line right now is DSA Arms FALs. You can get one that will shoot 1 MOA with Match ammo. But it is up there in price with the M1A. They also have every accessory out there for them. The advantage of the FAL is cheaper mags than the M14 and easier to get parts for. Also if you have the money for a preban FAL get a Belgium FAL. They are TOP grade. But it all comes down to which one you like the best. So go out and see which one feels like the "extension" of yourself. Oh yea British Special Forces still use the FAL. They can use whatever the hell they like. And they love the FAL. As for regulars they are stuck with the SA-80. It is such a joke. Will only fire reliably in full auto and the SAW version will only fire reliably in semi. Hahahaha. But SAS also uses the M-16 and has ordered Canadian version of the US SOFMOD M-4.


[This message has been edited by AR-15 Man (edited August 05, 2001).]

[cutefix]

Thanks pal,I was really interested with the Fabrique National FAL ever since because I heard alot of favorable comments about it;however I hear also there is fake copy of it, being circulated that is why I am wary about.I will try to obtain that Belgian made gun.I expect it could give better accuracy.By the way this M-14 has a special place in my heart because it is the rifle that I maintained longer than any gun,and I’m used to the contours of its wooden stock,the trigger pull and the recoil. I might have to adjust if I have to replace with another rifle of similar caliber.I’m also used to shooting with iron sights.I’m certain that both M1A or the FAL could give me the same enjoyment of long distance target shooting whichever I will choose.
I still think the M-16 is superior to the SA-80 with regards to reliability and performance;how much more with M-16A2.,therefore I feel that the bullpup British toy should be put in the museum. And then start buying American guns.However I don’t want to descredit their craftmanship for Accuracy International have the top of the line sniper rifles,and their Gimpy(L7A2 GMPG )is known to be better than American M60..

[AR-15 Man]

If you cannot get a Belgium get a DSA Arms. The quality is the same expect for the Belgium has certain legal status relating to folders, bayonet lugs, and flash hiders. Heck I think DSA arms uses a lot of Belgium parts too. I know the feeling about having a gun in your heart. My Colt AR-15 is that way. Same way with my Hungarian AK. Nothing can replace there feeling. My Enfield is starting to get that way on me. Oh yea try some other gun boards. Look up assualt web, fal files, hardcore talk ect. Those Franken FALs as some people call them can be OK but if you have the cash get the BEST. Trust me once you have the rifle you won't regret it. People were like you paid 900 for an AR-15 well it is well worth it for me.

[This message has been edited by AR-15 Man (edited August 06, 2001).]

[HMTD Factory]

The LR-300 has a major different design : No recoil plunger. Its recoil spring is inside the handguard so the bolt is "pulled" forward
instead of "pushed" forward. Another small alteration is that the forward assist is moved forward near the ejection port to act as the brass deflector, some sort of function intergration.

By clearing the rear space for the plunger, it enable the use of a folding stock. The gun is carefully machined so it has a lot of sharp corners(looks nice but ouch if not carefully handled), unlike the rounded AR.

The AR's firing mechanism can't move forward to make it a bullpup. Therefore the new design(cleared rear end) don't offer much advantage other than the folding stock.

Only semi-auto will be available to civilians
(if you are one)

People told you if you have the money, go buy
something instead. I am about to tell you the same thing : For 200$ less, you can get a
sleek design, space-age material AR-15 variant called "Carbon-15" from Professional Ordnance, 16" barrel "only weight 3.9 pounds"
. It even has a chrome plated bolt.

[AR-15 Man]

Do not get the Carbon 15 if you beat your weapons around like me. Apparently some of the earlier ones had problems of crictical parts being lightened. This caused some serious breakages. I think they still do this but they worked on it some. Also the price of these rifles in the US is now like 600 dollars. Not to shabby but if you want a light AR that will hold up get an Olympic LAR-15. It weights like 5 pounds. Also some companies have came out with kevlar lowers now. CAV arms and Hesse make this. Watch out for Hesse products they have poor QC. If you got a gov't profile 16 inch barrel with Canadain style A1 stocks which are light like the US A1 stocks but made of stronger materials your gun will be pretty damn light. Also the Carbon 15 uses non standard AR-15 parts. I have heard some good range reports from the newer Carbon 15 but nothing about field use.

[cutefix]

Thanks for that info HMTD,AR-15, it only reinforced my desire to avoid that LR-300.If I happen to choose another .223 caliber assault rifle aside from the M16A2,I might have to choose the Steyr-Aug;well this weapon is said to be robust ,it can tolerate heavy punishment in the field and shoot well.It is also a space age design,and versatile,it can be converted into a submachine gun by changing its parts so that it can fire 9mm ammunition.I might have to adjust to its unique appearance and handling;being a bull-pup weapon.By the way is there any knowledgeable comment about this Austrian Gun?

I think if you had to look for quality, you have to pay the price,therefore cheap alternative guns are not worth obtaining , or keeping at all…..Procuring a good gun is like looking for a wife(it can become your lifetime partner also) .A lot of girls can be your bedroom partners,but you have to look for the quality in the woman that will become your lifetime partner,(as long as everything comes smooth…..or just tolerable……).The gun appears to be like that also,there are always preferrences that is very personal....

[AR-15 Man]

I can highly recommend the Steyr AUG. Great damn gun but I myself can't justify that price. Now if it was under 2 grand yea I could. But if money wasn't the issue I would go for it. But you do realise you can change out uppers on the AR-15 types to make everything from silencered sniper rifles in .300 whisper to SMGs in 9mm, 40 S&W, 10mm, and 45ACP and also guns in 50 action express and some new round called .458 SOCOM? But I still say get the Steyr AUG. Definitely one of the best weapons ever made. Also the quick change barrel feature is very nice. I wish ARs had them but I just change up entire upper. Well good luck on your weapon choice and find a rifle that you will give tender loving care to and that will repay ya. To me AK's are like ugly girls with big tits. You can get them to put out always. But AUGs and AR-15s are like hot ass girls. You need to take care of them but when they do put out you are in heaven.

[cutefix]

Thanks pal for your favorable comment,.I also talked to some of my friends in the firing range and they also liked the gun.,but they think it was very difficult to get the comprehensive version where you can interchange parts in order to convert it from assault rifle,to submachine gun or even sniper rifle.Even, though, I will give it a try....

[AR-15 Man]

Yea sounds like that would be a very pricey thing. I knew there was a AUG bull pup 9mm rifle but didn't realise it was a conversion. For that much you could have a LEGAL full auto AR-15/M-16 if you live in a class 3 friendly state. But if you are like me you don't like the extra paper work. Plus you know that semi is used more than full auto and good training can make semi more effective. But for multi calbres get an AR-15. You won't regret it.

[angelo]

I have experience with the steyr.
I like it but it is to expensive but on the other hand it lasts a long time can take alot of shit and shoots accurately with the help of the built-in scope.

[Yafmot]

The Steyr is sweet, but hopelessdly overpriced. Also, the built-in scope means you're stuck with one type of optic; the one the factory (and the Austrian Army) decides you need. With an AR-15, you can swap between a reflex sight and, say, a Trijicon ACOG, in seconds. You can also keep adding Picatinny rails to the point that the whole thing is festooned with so many gadgets that you can hardly see the rifle.

The -15 is a lot like a box of Legos. There are so many different ways to put one together, I'd be dead from terminal writer's cramp by the time I listed them all. Any first time visitor to the SHOT Show would be blown away by the sheer variety of -15 variants and add-ons. Hell, I've been following the whole ArmaLite story since I was a kid and I'm STILL flabbergasted by all the accouterments and whatnots.

At least a dozen calibers. You can hang a rail on the bayonet lug. Or the fore end. Or the upper receiver. Or get an upper with an integral rail. And on those rails you can attatch flashlights, lasers, rangefinders, shotguns, grenade launchers, bipods, and God knows what all else. Sights range from peeps, to reflex, to ALL kinds of scopes, to IR, to Photomultipliers, to thermal imaging, and all the way up to combinations of photomultiplication and thermal imaging superimposed in one image, some of which can be used ahead of a conventional scope (though admittedly the latter combination will run you a cool $50K). All of this stuff pops on & off in seconds, still maintaining zero.

And what do you get with an AUG? THEIR scope, THEIR reticle and THEIR optics. Yeah, they're good optics (Leica, IIRC), but it's ALL YOU GET!

Configuration? In 5.56 alone you can have a -15 pistol (rough on the mechanism, but they work for a while). Wanna' fight ? You can put together an M-4 type weapon with a 16" barrel (14 if you want to go Class III), a 4 rail fore end, a flat top upper with a reflex or ACOG, and a collapseable stock. Need to put a lot of bullets through the same hole? Then you can build a "Space Gun." This will have a matched upper and lower; matched bolt, carrier and upper; 24" barrel with a 6" "Bloop Tube" for sight plane extension; provision for various weghts & counterweights; buttstock adjustable for length of pull, drop to comb and cant angle; a two stage, three-way adjustable trigger group; a $1,200 set of Anschutz micrometer peepsights and, aw, what the hell, a CUSTOM PAINT JOB! Bring about $10 Grand.

There's simply no other gun system, at any price, that offers the versatility of the AR-15/M-16 platform. Name another gun for which there are dozens of healthy, profitable companies making aftermarket parts exclusively for it (except maybe the 1911 pistol).

Buy a Steyr, and you'll expend a lot of fruitless effort just to find things you can do with it. With a -15, your only problem will be choosing which way to go

[-=HeX=-]

Yafmot: sorry for stepping on your toes about a firearm related subject, you do know your stuff, but you can change the scores on a streyr. I had the good fortune to spend a day at a military range last year and saw a streyr being fitted with night scopes. I also noted that the grenade launcher is very easy to mount.

The ar15 however did have less recoil when fired. The ar15 had a torch and laser mounted as well as a scope. The streyr had its grenade launches mounted but was semi auto only. Both had less recoil than my neighbours shotgun!

[file]

Performance is pretty similar(in my opinion anyway), so get the one that fits you more. I'm in contact with a few guys who used to work for Cav arms or work for them, and can attest that they are a very stand up company.

I don't own an AR yet though. I really want one though. Yafmot hit the nail on the head about it being a lego gun. Anything is possible on it.