EU: Bye bye Roguesci!

[Setharier]

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070911-eu-considers-banning-internet-publication-of-bomb-making-instructions.html

So much for the right of free speech. Well, let's put it this way as my country's national security offence(agency) said: We have freedom of speech in the terms of crime law. I didn't know we were at the same level in EU p2p state as North Korea, China and other bullshit countries..

Now bloody hell mates hoard yourself every single bit and piece from every single site, document and a picture, they will start their crusade in no time!

It is notable that they realize they will endanger most of the chemistry sites as well if such law passes. Secondly, I don't realize what will it help banning bombardment sites INSIDE eu where one can just simply run outside and host their sites there...? SURE they're planning for Great European Firewall on the same way. And, of course, in terms of REACH they will ban consumer chemicals..

PS. You know, the Eu- means "good" in Greece. I think calling "Europa" or "EU" is misleading. Dysropa sounds more realistic for Dys- standing "bad" for Greeks ;)

[sbovisjb1]

Except rougesci is not hosted in Europe. We can allways do what Sciencemadness does, encrypt the traffic and move the hosting offshore (hong kong anyone?) Then the information would still be free.

[festergrump]

Well, the best way to push that legislation through is to grease the wheel by having the majority of the people onboard with the idea, and the best way to do that is to accent the need for it with a false-flag "terrorist attack"... so wait for it. It may be that something terrible will happen soon to be blamed on science.

It seems that Obama/Biden is planning the same thing over here in the states soon as they're elected. Might happen that they'll get bold and work something out like a simultaneous attack in both places for a larger world impact. That could actually be the downfall of such a plan, however. Getting two or more different governments in on the same lie to their subjects will only allow more connections for the truth to "leak" out of, hence a better chance for the world to wake the fuck up and smell the coffee.

I'm not as computer savvy as many of the posting Forumites here, so forgive, but would this mean that proxies will not be able to get by the proposed block anyway?

[Rbick]

I'm not as computer savvy as many of the posting Forumites here, so forgive, but would this mean that proxies will not be able to get by the proposed block anyway?

From what I've seen during my time as a Computer Tech in a software development department, you probably wouldn't be safe even using a proxy. Especially if they plan to do this at a national level. I can't stand the idea that Obama, a person who may be the next president, thinks that the constitution is a "living" document. This is basically a bullshit excuse to change it if you feel like it will suit your agenda.

Seriously, I want everyone to send me your personal email. PM them to me please so I can generate a database so if this does happened, I can still be in touch with you guys.

[iHME]

Now, I'm fed up with this shit.
My only hope is that they just cry to totse and bombshock admins.
There is a load of non english local E&W/pyro boards in EU, so there will be some effect. But a big respected site like roguesci.org is probably in their sights.

This + REACH could mean and end to the amateur chemistry scene in Europe as we know it. It would not stop of cource, but it could become more fragmented.
But if EU asked nicely the US Feds would probably be more than happy to pull the plug from roguesci servers with some bullshit exuse.

Well, apparently I have to get that fuming nitric and pentaErytritol sooner than I expected.

[KAKTUS]

The Federal labor government of Australia in order to protect us from mind polution is going to force ISPs to censor what the Australian people can access on the net.

http://nocleanfeed.com/

What is the 'Clean Feed'?

The Australian Federal Government is pushing forward with a plan to force Internet Service Providers to censor the Internet for all Australians. This plan will waste tens of millions of taxpayer dollars and slow down Internet access.

Despite being almost universally condemned by the public, ISPs, State Governments, Media and censorship experts, Communications Minister Stephen Conroy is determined to force this filter into your home.

[i]Democracy, Free speech, Freedom of thought and expression, interesting concepts but quite obviously unworkable.

[TheSavageHyena]

The determination they have to wipe people like us out is astounding. By their standards we are no better than rapists running a kiddie porn forum. How is it that we are treated as subordinate criminals when we really do nothing wrong:confused:. We harm no one or their property (citation needed?)

It's hard enough to gather materials and good quality information. And if places like RS disappear, than I'm sure the safety associated with our beloved hobbies will disappear also. It just goes to show that communities such as ours are much more intelligent than the 'masses'. We encourage critical thinking and emphasize education of materials and apparatus. While they would much rather suppress information, and settle for nothing short of complete banishment.

What is even worse is that the many uneducated sheeple will most likely follow suit not learning from history. IIRC every time control/power of government is to be exercised, they suppress information and disarm citizens. You would think people would wake up, only for them to fall into a deeper slumber. What would really surprise me is if this proposal gets overturned!!! Then progress may begin :D

[3287]

From what I've seen during my time as a Computer Tech in a software development department, you probably wouldn't be safe even using a proxy. Especially if they plan to do this at a national level. I can't stand the idea that Obama, a person who may be the next president, thinks that the constitution is a "living" document. This is basically a bullshit excuse to change it if you feel like it will suit your agenda.

Seriously, I want everyone to send me your personal email. PM them to me please so I can generate a database so if this does happened, I can still be in touch with you guys.

To be fair, we've never had a president who didn't think that way - the strictest Constitutionalist was probably Jefferson and he even broke from it once he was in office.

The one good thing to remember about this is that the computer-savvy have a knack for undermining attempts at censorship like this. It becomes much harder to beat on a national level though... :(

As this sort of thing becomes more common, we may have to say goodbye to the Information Age. We won't be able to download knowledge with a click or have it right at our fingertips. It'll have to be more like the old BBS system, with people accessing a central hub through encrypted connections.

Such is the way of things. People will have to do what we always do, adapt and overcome.

[-=HeX=-]

I heard of this back when I was in my anarchist cookbook days after the london bombing. A month after the bombing someone on the news was talking shite about such a law. It never happened. If it happens now, or ever, its a completely retarded idea. All it will do is piss off a lot of good people who have explosives. Good people who may Well fight for their freedom.

All euro members should unite! Petition your government! And stock up... Prepare... Keep the guns clean even while writing letters. You never know when they may be needed.

[3287]

You're talking to citizens of the EU...

What guns? :p

[Bugger]

You're talking to citizens of the EU... What guns? :p
Make your own f***ing guns! There are enough plans for them on Roguesci. That is what Roguesci is for.

[Setharier]

Correct. STILL it is possible to obtain an old-spec deactivated gun and reactivate it. Later, probably, deactivation laws require the guns must be junk-welded to prevent reactivation. Then it will be the time to make completely new guns. By owning a little capital one can pretty easily purchase CNC-machinery, lathe and other systems for weapon mass-production. Cartridges are made out of plate with slammer machine and getting/lathing the mold heads is actually very easy. Or, you might use your time well and invent working caseless cartridge.. :)

There is an comission in EU researching possibilities of banning various commercial chemicals due to the tero threat. I posted link to the text in topic "REACH". The Fatal Three, REACH, Energetics Guidance Ban and Chemical Blacklist, or as they would say it officially, REC, is something that WILL KILL the hobbyist chemistry in EU. Most likely in USA too. Sooner or Later.

[-=HeX=-]

Bugger: thanks. I described an electrical firearm in the arming the masses thread, and I am building it very slowly. The thing about the ban which saddens me the most is not being able to finish my .pdf series. I am writing on azides and ETN simultaneously and it is taking a lot of time to even gather my materials. The other thing is losing this site, which I would die for. I will be downloading like a demon soon.

[3287]

The ban-everything crowd is going to fail. Whether it be by people simply circumventing bans or getting pissed off and calling for public hangings, it's going to fail. I'm not being hopeful or encouraging, I'm just stating a universal fact.

Hex, I'm sure you'll still be able to get the materials, somehow. Ease of availability is like an inverted Bell curve, high when there's no restriction, lower as some restriction is introduced, and easier as more is introduced, after a point. Look at England - total handgun ban, and you can still buy them on nearly any given street.

[-=HeX=-]

England, more like look at ireland... Here getting an illegal firearm is a walk in the park (Literally) but expensive. Swim remembers considering a small pistol for 350 but found a cheaper one elsewhere. Of course, firearms are second to chemical warfare in my mind...

As for the ban, I have my plan for posting on the forum already laid. I will get someone else to post stuff I email them using my account. So I will be here in all but one way.

[FUTI]

Hm...things are going the way of ex-USSR I see. I saw a TV show by Russian TV something like "from police files" about cases in USSR. They had strict control over weapons, but underground ... (read mostly criminals) made weapons out of most ordinary things sometimes even amazing stuff even SMG. In one episode there was a case of brilliant but vindictive inventor in arms business that when the guys which mattered rejected his ideas and blueprints killed several guys on his list making it look like robbery. CSI guys they got in police had troubles to deduce a weapon with which the crimes were done as it was his creation. Finally some CSI guy come to a conclusion that weapon is to good to be a work of a amateur. He started to sweep through a patent applications at government agency where someone remembered something similar to what he was looking for was proposed. Soon they found enough evidence to jail him, but he commit suicide during an arrest and his wife tried that also but failed since they saved her at the hospital. Point of the story... do they know what shit storm they are causing by banning everything? Soon they won't know what hit them.