Simple handgrenade designs

[Hundminen]

Here are two simple handgrenade designs that I know of that are pretty simple mechanically and can be as "safe" to handle as common military types.

The first type uses a preccussion ignitor:
This consists of a tube with the blastcap on bottom,then fuze/powder train then topped with a shotgun pimer with small bb epoxied in the center(bb must be covered with epoxy completely. the "holder" for this tube is threaded externally to except the screw on safety cap.
To use=unscrew safety cap/cover, bang the head(epoxy blob) on something hardand dispose of.
this design is handy for highly concealable small handgrenades/or large destructive ones.

Second design is the "electric grenade"
This is simply an electric blasting cap with fuze train in a single tube with the lead wires secured to two screws in the top of the grenade body.
To use this grenade,the operator has a nine-volt battery taped to a string/para-cord round his neck to ignite the grenade he touches the lead screws on the battery posts and disposes.

I did a search for grenade types and didn't find these types so I figured I'd share them,just my 2 cents.

[BoB-]

"electric blasting cap with fuze train"

I think you meant e-match, or electric ignitor.

[Noct]

I am sure this has been mentioned before, but it seems about as simple as it gets....

co2 cartridge (empty) filled w/ powdered explosive, fuse at the end.

Seven or so wrapped together parallel to one another, with the fuses tied together (braided/taped/whatever), then when one blows the rest will probably disperse, each going off soon after.

This is, of course, only for anti-personnel purposes.

[ENGINEERKILLER]

Most common modern handgrenades fuzes do not begin arming until they are in flight .Spoon flies off sending the stryker home to detonater .I know there are exceptions to this like simulaters and anti-tank grenades .To me there is something nerve racking about holding a functioning grenade in my hand .

From experience I can say that CO2 idea is not very effeicent when the first one goes it will snuff out alot of the other fuzes before it scatters them.

[ January 13, 2002: Message edited by: ENGINEERKILLER ]</p>

[Madog555]

Noct, that is called a crater maker and they are very common

i think the stick greanades (WWII german ones) dont have a lever thing on them. i know that they do have greanades that go instantly when the lever goes off. these are for boby traps. i would hate to mistake one of these for a normal greanade. i

have a deactivated pineaple greanade and i will upload a pic of it if any of you are interesed.

[Hundminen]

my point is that these designs are quite simple for resistance fighters to mannufacture in quantity.The grenade greatly compliments the handgun and boltaction rifle which is usually the only weapons one can musterup in times of emergency.As far as holding burning/armed grenade is concerned:
with these designs the fuze would be a couple seconds longer than usual to ensure ignition.
These are both proven designs that have shown up in the balkans.
Of course mouse trap designs are Ideal, but these are "make-doable".
The german potato-masher and egg grenade are friction ignited and are "burning" while in the opertors hand.

[ENGINEERKILLER]

I'm talking about grenades made within the last twenty years or so most every foreign country has made some sort of friction pull pull grenade the vietcong made about 10 diffrent versions .If i ever figure out how to upload pictures I'got 2 inert ones at my house and alot of other diffrent ones.
The most complex grenade I have ever seen is the area denial anti pursuit used by SF.It has a 25 second delay then it ejects 12 hair fine trip wires that only require 7-8oz of pressure to set them off .It also utilizes a frag ball with a liquid propellant so no matter how it lands the propellant is always at the bottom .

[CyclonitePyro]

You can find, or at least in America, grenade bodies almost anywhere, pinapple, baseball or lemon style. You can also purchase the screw on head, with the spoon and internals. Someone I know drilled out the place where the striker hits to fit a .30 caliber shell, just the brass and primer, so you push the shell down the hole, pull back the striker, and put on the spoon and insert the safety pin. When you pull the pin and let go of the spoon, the stiker flies up and strikes the primer and sends an explosion out the shell and out the bottom of the grenade body. All the grenade bodies I've seen for sale have holes in the bottum which could be welded on. This grenade would only be used for a booby trap, I'm sure you could modify it to ignite a fuse.

[Madog555]

engineerkiller, i know i was just giveing an example.

and that trip wire one sound awsome. must be realy scarry if your the guy on the other side :eek:

[Anthony]

The problem with internal fuse trains is that if you don't make them right (everytime!), there is a danger of the flame front flashing through like quickmatch.

[Madog555]

Here is a diagram of a small "pen greanade" like i used to make. i used to use a comercial firecracker and a cheap bic pen (the white kind) the striker is folded over the side of the side of the pen and taped in place. when you want to initiate it u just push in the match that sticks out the back. the tape protects the rest of the fuse from the fire so just the tip gets lit. if it wasn't there the whole fuse would light at once when the match is pushed. in result giveing you no delay. of course this can be used on bigger devices but u might need something like a KNO3/sugar to burn hot and long enough to light visco.
<a href="http://www27.brinkster.com/thehackforum/pen greanade.jpg">here</a>

<small>[ March 12, 2002, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: Madog555 ]</small>

[nbk2000]

What Engineerkiller described is called a PDM which stands for Persuit Denial Munition. It's a converted ADAM mine, normally used in artillery laid mining operations.

The trip wires shoot out for several yards in each directions and any pressure causes the mine to jump up about 3-5' before exploding. Very effective. But it's being slated to be pulled from the arsenal because of the Ottawa Mine Ban Treaty. SOF is fighting to keep it, naturally.

I've been raking my brain to figure out how to build a work-a-like. The Toe Popper MK I is based on a 10 year old idea I've had, and is the closest thing I've been able to come up with yet.

Pressure sensitive tripwires, all-ways propellant charges, millisecon accurate fuzes, etc. Too complicated to duplicate within reason.

I've thought of using PIR, Hall-effect magnetic, acoustic, seismic, and various others, but they all have the flaw of being liable to spontaneous initiation under the wrong enviromental conditions. It has to be something that wouldn't be effected, like a tripwire.

Making a jumping mine is easy. Getting it to go off ONLY when it should, and EVERY time it should is the hard part.

Any ideas?

[BoB-]

Tripwires are a great idea for jumping mines, I was thinking of something really simple, like a party popper glued into the top of a Det cap.

Only, party poppers are really sensitive, and the uncoiling of the wire might cause it to go off too soon, a few blobs of Whiteglue could keep it in place.

[PYRO500]

An idea for mines I've had is making ones with built in metal detectors, anyonesteps on them, they go off, anyone looks for it with a metal detector/mine probe they go off, of cousse you want to adjust it so the wiring dosen't set it off.

[ENGINEERKILLER]

NBK are you talking bounding mines like the valmara*or m2 series .Or an actual jumping mine like the one in your briefcase?
I,am not trying to be a smartass pyro500,but it is not exactly like people like me go probing for mines with our carkeys in our pockets and our K-mart closehanger mine probes .All military style mine detectors are made out of plastic an use carbon fiber wires in the probe head.and we use a magnetrometers on each other before we start searching.
I don't know if anyone cares about it or not but the pdm only has a 24 hour life span then it self destructs.This a big issue for the U.S. when it comes to land mines.As long a mine will self neutrilez it will stay as part of our war stock indefinatley .

[ January 14, 2002: Message edited by: ENGINEERKILLER ]</p>

[Cricket]

The main problem I have with tring to make grenades is that I wouldbe scared that when the primer was hit, it would be too much for the primary at the bottom and make it explode really fast. Maybe I just don't completely understand them though.

[Madog555]

hey, look here if you wana see a very simple greanade ignition. the firecrtacker can be replaced with a piece of visco that leads to a cap. DO NOT LEAVE THE MATCH IN IT WHILE HANDLEING IT, I HAD ONE SPONTAINIOUSLY IGNITE WHEN THE MATCH WAS MOVED. it is safe as long as the match is only put in when you are gonna throw it.

<a href="http://www.geocities.com/madog555/pengreanade.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/madog555/pengreanade.jpg</a>

you might need to copy and past the link

[Ctrl_C]

how are these tripwires anchored? by weight? I have this incredibly complicated idea of it throwing little projectile things that swing from the line in a parabolic arch to gain enough speed to plant themselves in the ground in a perfect 12-agon (whats a 12 sides figure called?) and expand little barbs underground to keep them in the ground tightly.

Also, how do they jump? Is it a mechanical spring device or another explosive?

[ENGINEERKILLER]

The tripwires which are actualy more like thread stay connected to the spools that they are wound off of. The amount pressure is so slight all (8oz)a person would have to do is catch it with their feet.

every bounding mine that I am aware of uses a small explosive charge to propel it upwards.The one one the pdm is liquid so no matter how the grenade lands the frag ball always floats on the propellant.

[nbk2000]

The simplist "bounding" mine doesn't even bound. It sits on top of a stake.

It's the fact that it's above the ground when it explodes that makes bounding mines so lethal, because there's no ground to absorb the fragments.

The military style use fraction of a second pyrotechnic delays, or pull cords, to set the mine off just above the ground when it's fired. But I think it'd be much easy to improvise one by using enough powder to launch the mine high into the air, so it'll fall down and explode in mid-air several seconds later.

This gives you enough time to use accurately measured lengths of visco fuse.

It doesn't really matter if the mine explodes 1 foot, or 10 feet, above the ground, as long as you've made it well.

I'm thinking a can lined with steel shot, filled with HE, capped with a cloth streamer with the fuse sticking out into a couple of grams of BP to propell it out the slightly larger can into which it's sealed.

Any number of sensors launch it.

It'd be interesting to build a mine that would lean towards its target to lauch the kill mechanism (oops, starting to slip into MIL-SPEAK <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> ) towards the target.

I'm envisioning a KM (Kill Mechanism AKA the bomb) in a stubby mortar, mounted on a pivot inside of a big plastic bowl (think tupperware) buried in the ground.

The mine is held upright by four "sticks" made of flashpaper or such.

When the mine is activated, the "stick" most directly pointing towards the victim is ignited. This blows the lid off the mine, and causes the mine mortar to fall free towards that side.

It then fires the shell.

It would then explode a short distance away in a directional manner, similar to canister shot, rather than omnidirectional like an artillery shell.

The fragments than cover a wide elliptical shaped area, probably hitting the target.

EK, did you ever get those pictures of the insides of the bomblets?

[RTC]

I've got a video that goes over these, (hey, I've got a video that covers everything!) and it's Andy McNabb's Ultimate Warrior.

I'm uploading it to a shite host with file limits of 900kb, so I've uploading all 92 files (..sigh) to a web site and shall reply here with the link (or links) so you can download it.

[RTC]

Ok, so here we go:

<a href="http://theforum.has.it" target="_blank">http://theforum.has.it</a>

:) Enjoy!

[DBSP]

Maby it's just my computer but I can't acces that page.
There's no doubt that a mine above ground is more effective against the target than a normal mine.

This is perhaps not what you're discussing but since some ideas has gotten into adding shrapnell to the charge I might aswell get my idea out here.

If you emagine a cable wind, and then think of the exact thing but in metall. The explosive is placed in the center, were there normally isn't anything but the bottom wich the cable is rolled up against.
Then you put a thin layer of plastic or similar oround the outside, and then fill the space where the cable is supposed to be with bbs or similar. If you don't uderstand what I mean you could think of a tincan with a metall disc over the top and under the bottom.

This design would effectivly disperse the fragments in a cirkel arround the charge and steer the shrapnell in the right direction. It would be very similar to a claymore but it would have a 360 degree angle of dispersial. If it would be about the size of a tincan and filled with abut 250-300g of explosive and the shrapnell being large ballbering steel balls, it would be...well you can think of what it could do.

[RTC]

Sorry about that, try it now: <a href="http://theforum.has.it" target="_blank">http://theforum.has.it</a>

[Mr Cool]

NBK: about your "leaning mine" - I read in a book (sorry, I can't be any more precise than that! It was a long time ago...) that some people used to protect their land from poachers using swivelling guns. The gun had many tripwires in different directions, and when one was pulled by someone walking into it, it swung the gun round to point in that direction, and then fired it.
So if you can find something describing that device, it could probably be easily copied if you wanted to make one. Substitute a pull ignitor and detonator for the trigger, and an EFP for the gun and you'd have a nasty bit of kit...

[drstrangelove]

Heres what I use for grenade bodies,you will have seen these before and they are availible anywhere.You know those bamboo sticks which hold a black container with fuel and a wick used for outdoor parties for light and or insect repelant,these containers are excellent for grenades as they come in various sizes and the lids screw on and off so inserting the cap only takes a second or 2.

[VasiaPupkin]

Sorry for my English.
'My homemade fragmentation handgrenade'
I made a hole in ball for table tennis. Put aluminized plastic HE into ball, then insert a fuse.
Fuse was a "match for hunters" inserted (with glue) into 4 mm short plastic tube with primer. Plastic tube is a pivot from gelly pen.
This matches has also 4-5 mm diameter and can burn even in water.
When detonator is inserted. I covered ball with 4 layers of small nuts (2.5-3mm diamter of hole).
Binder for nuts was a liquid silicone latex (after polimerisation cover is a elastic rubber with a nut filler).
Be sure other liquid rubber materiails is possible. Instead of nuts you can use small metal balls or wire pieces.

I used Al-plastic HE for brizance redusing and overall power increasing otherwise the nuts from first layer has a very large deformation level.
Overall time waiting ~6sec.
I put door from old fridge on ~5-6m distance.
There was a few holes through the door.
But I think its a very dangerous and needs to use this thing from shelter.
Al - wire elements are also possible to increase safety. Al - elements has a large kinetic energy on short distance but it decreases very quickly

I found interesting fuse construction with inertia element- <a href="http://faq.guns.ru/rg.html" target="_blank">http://faq.guns.ru/rg.html</a>
This fuse significantly safe when grenade explodes from shock.

[ENGINEERKILLER]

NBK I have the submunition that we were talking about I still have to take it apart we will see how that goes . I won't be able to get to it till tuesday though.
I did some research on the pdm and it does infact use a breakwire on the triplines .

[nbk2000]

AHHH....so I was right about the breakwire. That makes more sense than a tripwire given how it has to be functional on any terrain that SOF may operate in. Since it'd be difficult to depend on the wire catching on anything that could provide enough resistance for the traditional style of tripwire.

I've been looking at magnetic infulence fuzing for the IPDM using Hall effect sensors. It's more expensive, but since an IPDM would be a highly specialized piece of equipment that a person would only make a few of, cost isn't much of an issue but performance is. Especially since a breakwire system is probably beyond the manufacturing capability of the average person.

For those not in the know, the IPDM ( Improvised Pursuit Denial Munition) is a device that you throw behind into the path of pursuing enemy. They get close enough to it, the magnetic sensor detects the metal that everyone has on their body (keys, weapon, whatever), it jumps up and explodes in midair, spraying the pursuers with shrapnel, thus ending the chase.

You can figure out the applications from there. :D

A modification that would be useful would be replaceable warheads. Instead of just a lethal frag ball, you could have a flash-bang, or smoke, or aerosol tear gas. This would allow flexibility in the mission.

[RTC]

I've had to shift the split video files as I've just spent the last 2days resetting/reconfigging my CMOS/BIOS as it appear's someone that had seen the link to my http server on here has had a go at changing the PID file.

"[Sat Mar 16 07:20:53 2002] [warn] pid file c:/program files/apache group/apache/
logs/httpd.pid overwritten -- Unclean shutdown of previous Apache run?
Apache/1.3.23 (Win32) running..."

Needless to say I have the offending IP, (gotta love my firewall even when it's not running it logs all inbound/outbound IP/TCP activitys.

I have submitted it to the correct people, and as of now the video files are on my ftp, if I have time I will upload them to _C's ftp as well.

Also NBK by SOF you mean Soldier Of Fortune?

[Energy84]

I'm assuming the following:
SF - Special Forces
SOF - Special Operatives/Operations Forces

I think that's what they mean.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

(You are correct on both counts. Though SOF is "Special Operations Forces". NBK2000)

<small>[ March 16, 2002, 06:55 AM: Message edited by: nbk2000 ]</small>

[Machiavelli]

RTC, the files are on _C's ftp now. Since I didn't remember your name anymore there's no file describing the source with them but apart from that it's the original files from your page.

[RTC]

Ok, thanks for uploading them.