ak-47 full auto w/out select fire conversion [Archive]

Zyklon_B

September 18th, 2002, 01:14 AM

Go here: <a href="http://secession.tripod.com/southerntradingsblueprintsandreceivers/id2.html" target="_blank">http://secession.tripod.com/southerntradingsblueprintsandreceivers/id2.html</a>

And buy this:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />
47. 60% finished AK-47 Lightning Link. All the mill work and welding is done. You simply cut out one small part with hand tools or dremmel and fit to your receiver and drop in. Comes with bonded on template and instructions. Will fit all AK Variants. ALL NFA rules apply! Shipping is $6.00. Price $50.00.
<hr /></blockquote>After you finish the work with a dremel following all the easy plans they give you, all you have to do is drop it in your AK and you get full-auto and safety only.

When your done you just take it out of your gun. It leaves no marks and does nothing permanent. Also can be switched from AK to AK.

Nico

September 26th, 2002, 08:48 PM

Disclaimer: If you have a friend who has an AK, make sure he never modifies his weapon in this manner. This information is to help you identify what NOT to do, in order to keep all your friends and acquaintances on the right side of the law.

<img src="ftp://ewf:sd332gf@209.195.155.80/Hosted%20Images/Nico/aktrick.gif" alt=" - " />

How the semi-auto version of the AK works (follow along with the picture):
- When cocked, the hammer is held back by the hooks on the trigger.
- Pulling the trigger swings the hooks out of the way, causing the hammer to rotate forward and hit the firing pin which stikes the primer and you're in business (the shin bone's connected to the knee bone, and so forth) :)
- After firing, the bolt slides back, bringing the hammer with it.
- Keeping the trigger pressed keeps the hooks out of the way, but our lovely friend the disconnector remains on duty to hold that hammer back when the bolt slides forward again.
- Letting go of the trigger releases the disconnector but raises the hooks, so the hammer is still held back, until the trigger is pulled anew.
- If it wasn't for the disconnector, the hammer would just rotate forward by being carried along with the bolt, slamming into the firing pin again.
- This process would continue until either a) you release the trigger, or b) you run out of ammo.
- So what to do about the pesky disconnector? Simply tie it off to the cross pin (the safety lever pivots on it) ... this keeps it out of the way.

Problems with this:
- I have no idea if this even works, not having an AK nor any interest in going to jail.
- This information was garnered from a text file of dubious origin.
- There is no way to fire single shots, unless you are extremely quick at letting go of the trigger. This could be very dangerous.
- You could waste a lot of ammo with this method.
- A twist-tie is pretty half-assed.
- The hammer may not have as much force being carried forward by the bolt as it would being release by the hammer spring. Thus, light strikes may occur and rounds may not even fire at all. Perhaps it depends on the ammo, but likely the problem is because the weapon is not made to operate in this manner.
- Stamped receivers may have trouble handling the barrage of full auto. Blackjack buffers or similar are recommended.
- ***** It's quite illegal, so don't do it. *****

[ September 26, 2002, 07:49 PM: Message edited by: Nico ]

hodehum

September 26th, 2002, 09:34 PM

I also found a way of converting an AK-47 to full auto using a twist tie, also in a text file. you can find it <a href="http://www.hackcanada.com/ice3/misc/ak47mod.txt" target="_blank">here</a>.

Zyklon_B

September 26th, 2002, 11:45 PM

If they couldn't get the caliber and the cartridge right in that above text, what are the chances of it really working?

hodehum

September 27th, 2002, 01:41 AM

Somewhere between zero and shit all

Does anyone have any plans to converting any common/well known rifle to full-auto? esp with firing mechanism similar to that of a AK-47?

Nico

September 27th, 2002, 09:00 PM

Yes, that HackCanada file is the 'file of dubious origin' that I was referring to. I drew the pic as I understood the text file to mean. But, yes, it seem pretty sketchy.

Here is a pic of the AK-47 version of the Lightning Link:
<img src="http://home.earthlink.net/~notpurfect/aklink.jpg" alt=" - " />
and the associated text:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />This is the link for the AK-47, and AKS series of rifles. The curved ends catch notches at the end of the AK hammer, and hold it back until the link is tripped by the forward movement of the bolt. It is shown approximately twice actual size, and may be easily inserted, and removed from the weapon. The picture was taken from an add on an Internet web sight where it was being sold; don't ask me for the address. As there is no serial number on the piece, and the seller in question is not a class 3 dealer, I can only assume that the device in question is illegal, and being sold illegally. As may be seen, this is simply a flat piece of spring steel which has been cut and bent to size. It can be produced easily with minimal equipment for a couple of dollars, and yet I see these bits of prison bait selling for hundreds of dollars.<hr /></blockquote>And here is the site it came from:
<a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~notpurfect/semifull.html" target="_blank">http://home.earthlink.net/~notpurfect/semifull.html</a>

EventHorizon

September 29th, 2002, 10:23 PM

As I understand it anyone can get full auto AK parts at almost any good gun show as they are not illegal. All that is required is drilling one hole in the AK receiver (thats what will get you 10 years) and installing the auto bolt and sear and then making an additional notch between the "safe" position and the fire position. Very easy! The SKS is even simpler. You remove the trigger assembly and bend a small piece of metal much like in an above post and that fits under the sear preventing it from catching. With additional modification to make the pins come out easy you have an easy conversion that can be done in literally less than 2 minutes. Get an SKS that accepts AK mags, whack in a 75 rnd drum and you have one nice little toy to plink with. :p

[ September 29, 2002, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: EventHorizon ]

phyrelord

September 30th, 2002, 10:24 PM

Does anyone have plans for the lightning link for the AK-47? or can anyone explain better where it goes, or shed any light on the subject. Does anyone have the milling plans. I would like to take a look at them, for educational purposes of course.

vir sapit qui pauca loquitur

October 2nd, 2002, 11:31 AM

damn, why is it that everyone thinks that full-auto gives them an edge? Semi-auto is perfectly good enough, the US marines have semi and burst-fire (thats what i like) But why do you need full auto on an AK of all the things? :confused: I mean the recoil of the 7.62x 39 round _is_ lower then the 7.62 NATO (7.62x51) but its still too high to give ANY indication that the shooter is anything more then an African monkey (they have a fondness for automatic fire)

my advise (and i'm sure that i'll get flamed for it) is that you enjoy the years that you would lose if caught with such a device.
learn to rapid fire with that AK, you can count every round with semi,
so you have full control of when (if!) you run dry.

Remember that you can own semi-auto firearms, us poor British weren't given the choice. We either handed in the hand-guns or were branded as perverts/children killers. We could have revolted but the general public was wedged so far up blairs ass that they don't see the future, and they only believe what the papers report on :mad: :mad:

arrggg, my blood pressure <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

zaibatsu

October 2nd, 2002, 01:35 PM

Full Auto may be a useless option for an assault rifle, BUT I see two reasons for having it. One, it'd be pretty fun. Two, add a longer, heavier barrel, and a bipod, and you could have a makeshift LMG.

EventHorizon

October 2nd, 2002, 02:45 PM

Full auto is fun!!!! Thats why its worth the time if caught.

BUT, as far as hitting anything, unless you've extensivly trained firing full auto, most normal people can't hit jack sh*t. I've shot my share of fully auto weapons from subguns to a BAR. If its a 7.62NATO or larger...forget controlling it, but a 5.56 or 7.62X39 isn't to bad.

If you want to actually hit something, semi is all you need and if you're looking to inflict major damage, snipe. Read Gunny Hathcocks book and you'll see what I mean. Its amazing how many targets are still standing after you cut loose with FA spray and pray.

ossassin

November 27th, 2003, 08:33 PM

I would not recommend converting an AK to full-auto. Rather, I would suggest converting it to select-fire. You do not want to give up the semi-auto mode in most assault rifles. However, seeing as how the AK was designed for full-auto fire, it might not be such a bad idea. There are better alternatives, though. A select-fire conversion would either need a receiver modification or some part replacements; either would work.

damn, why is it that everyone thinks that full-auto gives them an edge? Semi-auto is perfectly good enough, the US marines have semi and burst-fire (thats what i like)

Full-auto gives one a huge advantage at close ranges. The "burst" feature was used in the M16A2, because after Vietnam, there was a widespread concern about ammo conservation. However, the military, including the Marines, is slowly going back to full-auto. The new M4A1's are full auto, and it is considered the standard-issue rifle.

The AK was designed for full-auto fire. It's not a very accurate rifle, but it was made to be reliable and powerful at close range. If you want an accurate rifle that works well on semi-auto, get an AR-15.

NOTE: The exception to the full-auto rule is someone who has had years of training. Many spec-ops groups double-tap with semi-auto instead, but most troops can not keep the necessary state of mind and do not have the reflexes.

grandyOse

November 27th, 2003, 10:43 PM

I have a mechanical drawing around here somewhere for the MILLED sks autosear. Easily made with shop tools, and probably easier than trying to bend that sheet steel just right. It I had a way to upload it I would.

I know a guy with one of these modified trigger groups. I've seen him fire off 3 to 5 round groups with pretty good accuracy at 50 yards. Also saw him open up and walk the bullet stream onto target where he could hold it for the duration of the magazine. This guy is no marksman, either. I can see the advantage.

Barcy

November 28th, 2003, 02:04 AM

grandyOse. I am sure there would be a number of parties most interested in the milled sks autosear, if you could find a way to upload it in the future. Not that us poor Aussies are allowed to own such semi auto firearms anymore. Your discription of its efficiency beats the demonstration I witnessed many years ago, when a boasting friend insisted he could make his ak/sks full auto. Without testing them action manually, in went a full magazine and he pulled the trigger. Unfortunitely when he released the trigger the thing kept firing. Not only did he risk his life and his spectators when he almost dropped it in panic, he did not hit the body sized target at 25metres once.
So although always interested in learning new things (knowledge is power), if anyone was thinking on how they could modify a semi to an auto. I am sure they would also be thinking on doing a manual check of the action, by using a firearm with no magazine or bullets in the chamber pulling back the cocking lever and letting it slide forward on to an empty chamber and than pull the trigger to see if the firing action clicks forward. Now moving the cocking lever back and forwards hold the trigger in and listen and/or feel for the click of the firing action. I would personally try these two steps a few times. Once you feel confident with this I would only load a few rounds into a magazine to test it. If the auto fire seems OK load a few more rounds till you are certain the auto action responds to the release of the trigger. Test fire by trying to make short burst with your trigger control.
Not being a wimp when it comes to firearms, but a runaway full auto in another persons hands has already scared the hell out of me once.

grandyOse

November 28th, 2003, 03:38 PM

Barcy, it sounds like the guy turned his firing pin around, or found some other way to make it slamfire. slamfiring is unwise. Not only can it result in runaway FA as you described, it is hard on the bolt and who knows what else, because the round is firing before the bolt is fully engaged. You have made a most excellent suggestion about dry firing to make sure the conversion is working properly.

grandyOse

November 28th, 2003, 04:53 PM

I hope this works, I'm not real wonderful at ascii drawing

............................................ NOT TO SCALE
....1/16...I--3/16---I .......... ALL DIMENSIONS INCHES

aprox..../=======I
.14deg./=======I 1/16
.........../========I======================I
........../===============================I......1/16
......../======/=========================I.
....../======/.......1/8
...../======/

....I-- 1/8 - - I--1/8 -I ---------------- 5/8 --------------I

....I----------------------- 7/8 ---------------------------I

...........I=================================I
..1/8...I=================================I
...........I====================I============I
..1/8...........CUT OUT.............7/16.....I============I
...........I====================I============I
..1/8...I=================================I
...........I=================================I

................CODE:

----------------- horizontal measuremnt

I......................................=========== ============
I.....vertical edge...........=========solid steel======
I......................................=========== ============

..../
.../ slant edge
../

iI've edited several times. I guess that's as good as I can do. Just line up the vertical sides and it should look alright. everything is right angles except for the steeply angled front (left) side.

grandyOse

November 28th, 2003, 06:03 PM

I hate doing stuff half-assed. Let me try again. Mods; delete post counts if you want, I'm not rying to be a whore.

==================================
============.1/8.===================
==================================
.................................=================
............7/16...cut.......=======.1/8.=======...........3/8...width
.................................=================
===================================
============.1/8.====================
===================================
I---------------------.7/8.-------------------------I

I--1/16--I----3/16----I----------5/8----------I.....length.......

.............../////////////////I
..............//////////////////I.........1/16
.............///////////////////I
............///////////////////////////////////////////////////////I
.........../////////////////////////////1/16//////////////////////I
........../////////////////////////////////////////////////////////I.........1/4..depth..
.........//////////////
........//////////////
.......//////////////.............1/8
......//////////////
.....//////////////
....//////////////

...I---1/8---I----1/8----I------------5/8------------I

hope that's better

Voyager

January 9th, 2004, 11:13 PM

Screw the AK-47.

The best firarm plans on the net are the AR-15 CAD plans at http://www.biggerhammer.net/ar15/cad/

http://www.geocities.com/elmgrove1765/project6/project6.html is an excellent description of building an AR-15 receiver.

Mike76251

January 10th, 2004, 02:55 AM

There are a few notes in this thread about using a twist-tie or a nylon zip-tie on a AK's "trigger hook" to render it full auto.
I just took the top cover off one and can see no way for this to work. The claw-like hooks these ties would hold back don't even hold the trigger. The disconector does in the one I just looked at.
Even if it did work...........the hammer would just follow the bolt and not have near enough energy to activate the primer.
On another important note, never modify a semi into a full auto if the weapon was not designed for it in the first place............aka SKS...........you can get away with a AK conversion because the weapon was designed for it in the first place.
A SKS can blow it's top cover too easy when rock-n-rolling and it always comes off straight back (with great force) right into your face.

jackhammer

January 10th, 2004, 01:14 PM

A 7.62 round has enough kick WITHOUT the full-auto.Full-auto gives one a huge advantage at close ranges. The "burst" feature was used in the M16A2, because after Vietnam, there was a widespread concern about ammo conservation. However, the military, including the Marines, is slowly going back to full-auto. The new M4A1's are full auto, and it is considered the standard-issue rifle. The Colt Commando (or M4), is chambered for the 5.56 NATO. I've fired fully auto shotguns easier to control than the AK-47, (although I never got the chance to use the Jackhammer, mostly because it was never really released), and they are far more deadly at close range. Why not simply use the ak-74, or, as voyager said, convert something like the AR-15?

ibuprofen

January 10th, 2004, 06:46 PM

The method described in Nico's post is dangerous. It may work due to the inertia if you timed it right, but it would be a very bad idea. What would happen is the bolt would slam the hammer back, and if it worked the bolt would lock closed again before the hammer made it back to hit the firing pin. If it worked wrong, the hammer could hit the firing pin before the bolt was closed, firing the cartridge partially out of its chamber (slam-fire) and possibly blowing up the gun, some or all the carts in the loaded magazine, and ruining at least the gun if not your face (a few inches away). Please don't do it. I don't know enough about the AK to suggest a way that works but I have heard the lightning link works.

lamar pye

January 10th, 2004, 10:26 PM

What you guys are talking about is slam firing conversion......its dangerous and it doesnt work. If you pull out the bolt carrier on your AK have a look at the triangular shaped piece at the back of the carrier, this is what keeps the hammer from hitting the firing pin when the bolt is out of battery. This piece of metal is probably the only thing keeping you from blowing your faces off. The proper way to convert any weapon is to build an auto sear that trips the hammer when the bolt is closed and the carrier is about 3/32 from closing. If it seems too good to be true, it probably is!

tubes

February 2nd, 2005, 07:32 PM

I hope this works, I'm not real wonderful at ascii drawing

Hello Forum,

grandyOse, is that ASCII art you posted for an AK-47 auto sear?

Neoknite

February 3rd, 2005, 08:38 PM

Alright i am staring at my ak right now and Lamar Pye has a valid point. When the hammer hits the firing pin with the slam fire conversion the bolt is at the max 1/4 in secure (closed). And this might not be exact cuz i didnt measure it just estimating. But if you where to weld an additional piece to end of the bolt carrier you would be able to allow the firing pin to be hit later.
This causes 2 problems that i noticed. The hammer might hit the carrier before fully cambering a round losing inertia and might not fire the round when it is chambered. And this part when the weapon is cocked hits the back of the return spring, so recoil would be added but probably not enough to notice and it would cause a lot of stress on the weld and might break off. But this if it does hold should allow a safer slam fire conversion.

ossassin

February 6th, 2005, 02:02 AM

The easiest and most secret way to do a full-auto-only conversion seems to be a lightning link. There seems to be a little confusion regarding the operating principles behind them, so here are a few resources.
http://www.friendshuh.com/llink.html
http://www.quarterbore.com/nfa/lightninglink.html

Plans for different types of AR-15 LL's are easy to find, the that picture that was posted earlier on this thread was the first I've ever seen of an AK LL. Does anyone have any information on them at all?

lowjack

February 7th, 2005, 08:31 PM

I've never seen anything other than that two pronged AK47 lightning link. I'm almost positive that they were never patented and sold by any companies as legal RLL's.
Not to say they dont work or that it's not worth a try. But I know quarterbones website helped to turn my AR15 into an M16 easy as pie. The AR lightning link works by tugging the disconnecter back as the bolt closes by a 1/16 of an inch or so. How does the AK47 incorporate that lightning link? I'm afraid that if that thing worked as well as the AR15's does that it'd be alot more popular and someone somewhere would have put some info on it on the internet or published a how-to manual, right?

I think buying a drill jig, the full-auto parts and your AK probably already has a FA bolt carrier, and doing it right is the safest way to rock and roll. But drilling that hole for the autosear is permanent and highly illegal. But hell, it's not like your gonna offer to let any punk ass cop who might be unfortunate enough to encounter you with your FA AK to come and inspect it now are you? Better just unload into his patrol car and beat feet while he's sitting there reciting the lords prayer atop a pile of his now soiled pig pants. Chances are if the cop is caught off gaurd he'll fumble the persuit by trying to get his now freyed nerves under control. Full-auto 7.62x39 fire isnt something anyone gets over quickly when it's aimed in your direction. Heck neither are 223's.

tomu

March 13th, 2005, 02:55 PM

Lot's of free information about building your own AK receiver from scratch by bending sheet metal and riveting as well as a receiver template as PDF can be found at:

http://www.akparts.com/

This place sells also part kits and full auto trigger parts of the AK.

I have no ties nor I'm in anyway affiliated with this company.

tomu

March 13th, 2005, 02:55 PM

tomu

March 13th, 2005, 02:55 PM

Jacks Complete

March 13th, 2005, 08:16 PM

lowjack, that is called the law of unintended consequences.

You push up the penalty for having a machine gun (or any gun) high enough, and people will start killing to avoid being caught, since both carry a five to ten year term!

Yes, bizarre ain't it? UK law mandates a minimum 5 years for having a pistol, but "life" [defined penalty for murder] can be out in seven!

Increase an penalty for a trivial simple possession offence, and you risk this sort of backlash. And you can argue murder, wether you were there or not, etc. but you can't argue anything at all for a simple possession offence, and might not even be able to get a jury trial!

Jacks Complete

March 13th, 2005, 08:16 PM

Jacks Complete

March 13th, 2005, 08:16 PM

Storm on the Horizon

July 9th, 2006, 03:41 AM

Yes, that HackCanada file is the 'file of dubious origin' that I was referring to....And here is the site it came from:
<a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~notpurfect/semifull.html" target="_blank">http://home.earthlink.net/~notpurfect/semifull.html</a>

I know this is an old post, but saw this and thought I should make a correction. The "Lightning Link" and photo of it posted for the AK does work - very well for that matter.... only one problem. It will not work in an AK47. It was miss-identitified. The photo is an SKS autosear. I uploaded two versions of this autosear for everyones viewing pleasure.

http://rapidshare.de/files/25343680/SKS_Auto_Sear_Plans.pdf.html

and

http://rapidshare.de/files/25343753/SKS_Drop-In_Full_Auto_Sear.pdf.html

Enjoy.

Do NOT quote whole posts!

furdog

July 23rd, 2006, 03:19 PM

Actually instead of the 10 years and all the bull that comes along with special triggers ect... you can take parts of the romainian full auto parts kit and do the exact same thing without the sear in the front this way its a double pull when you let off the trigger it fires when you pull it fires and with a little bit of filing on the trip and selector notch that holds the rear sear catch you can almost fire 80rds a min trust me its a lot better than going to jail, if ya like i can try and take some pics of the inside my guns and post them. I have about 60 AK47s and 74s and from A to Z on the brands. I also do Custom wood stocks and handles for about anything. I also do have a Class 2 FFL with a SOG stamp . but even i do like idea of 3rd bursts to full auto when you burn up around 14,000 rds in a open field for the love of hearing the sound of a automatic.

festergrump

July 23rd, 2006, 06:59 PM

Furdog,

Yes, please do try to post some pictures of your FCG in this configuration.

I had given some thought on how to do this very thing (Georgia state law states a weapon is declared full auto only if more than 6 shots are fired with one trigger action) but assumed this would involve removing the disconnector spring and welding the disconnector in just the right position in relation to the front trigger hook(s). When the trigger is pulled, the hammer is released, recoil of the bolt carrier allows the diconnector to engage the hammer and hold it until the trigger is released, thus allowing a second shot... lather, rinse, repeat... :) I wasn't positive this would work and didn't feel like messing up a perfectly good FCG to try it.

From the way you describe your method in your post is leads me to assume it involves a FA disconnector and selector relationship? Just interested in the process. (IMHO, a select fire is the way to go if you're willing to risk the 10 years fed time or bump firing if not. M. Kashnikov made it all too easy on us home-brewers, though! Add FA sear and a rate reducer... BINGO! Rock-n-roll :D ).

NOTE: It should be worthy of a mention that most Romanian kits (especially that of the Romy G type, most popular right now) are now coming without a disconnector at all and will need to be purchased seperately in either the FA or semi-auto variety. Always ask before you buy a kit just to be sure you have everything you need to complete a working rifle (since disconnectors are under $10) and you won't have to pay twice for shipping and handling charges (usually around another $10 no matter how small the part).

Kudos on your massive AKM collection! I'd love to see a pic of them all lined up and ready for duty, too, if thats possible (gun porn spank material! ;) )...

P.S. Also, please be more careful with i/I when refering to yourself in the future. It's the leading cause of death among newbies around here. Just a friendly reminder.

BulletSmith

July 24th, 2006, 06:28 PM

I have heard of a trick where you tie a string to the trigger, loop it around the buttstock and then tie it to the charging handle. When you release the bolt, it goes forward and after it locks up it pulls the triger itself. You could maybe make it more functional by adding a bunjee cord to the mix.

The other cool thing is that you can do it to any open bolt semi auto. I'm afraid to do it to my M-1 Garand. :p

++++++++++++

The other thing you could do is learn to put together a decent sentence that doesn't require Daddy ;) to correct it for you. :p

NBK

furdog

July 24th, 2006, 08:34 PM

Festergrump, I will try and do some pics of the configuration sometime soon and your right about the rate reducer it is needed but thats it no other parts!!! Simple as the Ultimate trigger system but without all the extras.

Here is the pics of the AK's. This is just some of them, the 2 in the middle have custom wood stocks I made! http://Badcompanyfiishing.Com/IMG_2266.JPG

Oh, and thanks for the heads up on the reminder but actually I am within my limits, And as far as the snacks, LOL, they're after hours and she works for the agency you specified!

++++++

You too.

NBK

Cobalt.45

July 26th, 2006, 10:31 AM

NOTE: It should be worthy of a mention that most Romanian kits (especially that of the Romy G type, most popular right now) are now coming without a disconnector at all and will need to be purchased seperately in either the FA or semi-auto variety.

Very good point. This is getting to be one of those "If I had a nickle for every..." type of thing. Keep one on hand for this reason. If you're not sure, ask.

Numrich, among others, have component kits for the Romanian variant for < $120.00. Contains all except receiver, stock and mag.

Panzerfaust29a

July 30th, 2006, 02:52 PM

you can take parts of the romainian full auto parts kit and do the exact same thing without the sear in the front this way its a double pull when you let off the trigger it fires when you pull it fires and with a little bit of filing on the trip and selector notch that holds the rear sear catch you can almost fire 80rds a min trust me its a lot better than going to jail

That actually sounds pretty interesting (and I have heard of it), I am not sure I understand how such a modification works is there a document or diagram that explains it?

furdog

July 31st, 2006, 09:40 PM

If there is I have never seen one. Your simply using the trigger from the full auto parts kit. When I have the time to make you some pics of the inside of my gun for a example.

Hammer of God

August 2nd, 2006, 12:56 PM

There is a full-auto AK conversion that requires no reciever modification and is safer than tying back the disconnector. It uses a trip bolted to the safety which pushes the disconnector back upon the bolt's closing, releasing the hammer.

I will upload the plans on rapidshare ASAP.

Genocyde

August 3rd, 2006, 04:37 AM

Here you go, ghetto full auto at its best. LOL

+++++++++++

Your attachment is unapproved as being both unoriginal and undetailed.

Go back to 4chan if that's the best you can do.

NBK

Ok, sorry.. The photo was simply meant as an illustration to BulletSmith's comment above.

I have heard of a trick where you tie a string to the trigger, loop it around the buttstock and then tie it to the charging handle. When you release the bolt, it goes forward and after it locks up it pulls the triger itself. You could maybe make it more functional by adding a bunjee cord to the mix.

Sorry it's not original. The picture isn't mine, and I wasn't claiming that it was. I should have quoted BulletSmith to begin with though.

P.S. Until a Google search a few minutes ago, I had no idea what 4chan is.

Hammer of God

August 3rd, 2006, 12:50 PM

Here are the plans for the AK conversion on rapidshare.

http://rapidshare.de/files/28048409/AK_DIAS.rar.html

+++++++

Always capitalize acronyms (AK, not ak).

NBK

c4550

August 5th, 2006, 01:43 AM

Slam fires will not blow up an AK. I build them as a hobby. If it fires out of battery, the bolt is nearly fully locked in the trunnion when that occurs and will not harm you (likely, no promises).

Slam firing is no good for a combat weapon. First, it lacks select fire capability. Second, the hammer follows the carrier on it's way into battery. It frequently lacks the striking strength to set off hard milspec primers. In other words, don't trust your life to a gun that may not go bang.

The AK series weapons (AK47,AKM,AK74) are readily converted back to their select fire capability by purchasing a perfectly legal, full auto, fire control group. The FCG has an autosear and rate reducer(sometimes called an anti-bounce device). This is where the drilling of the dreaded third hole comes into play.

You drill that hole and get caught, 10 years club fed.

You also have to notch one of the lower rails so that the autosear sticks up and can be tripped by the bolt/carrier to release the hammer. This way the hammer gets a full strength drop on the firing pin for those hard milspec primers.

The parts are easily obtained online for about $25. You would need a template (sorry, don't have one) to correctly drill the third axis pin hole. 5mm on one side, 7mm bit for the other.

To have a gun worthy of trusting your life with, it needs to be in it's original configuration. DIAS, shoestrings, bump firing are all fun but have little combat value. One setup as a SAW might be of some value if used properly with support. The SKS would be my choice if I were to make a SAW.

If you want to learn how to build your own AK there is a ton of home builders that post in the "Build it yourself" section here http://www.gunsnet.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=77

So, how did I do for my first post? Acceptable or garbage?

macgyver6868

September 7th, 2006, 09:53 PM

If you can find the company, Autowerkes sells the plans for a secondary trigger the mounts below the trigger guard.When pulled, it is supposed to deliver full auto fire from any position.

I believe there is a link to the website at Mac10.net

festergrump

September 30th, 2006, 02:35 PM

There's some discussion HERE (http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15755) about the two shot trigger (AKA Dead Man's Trigger). Check out Kernel Krink's idea of using a double disconnector system which can be controlled via the selector/safety lever.

Very interesting...

Devnull

December 20th, 2006, 02:47 AM

There are several sites out there which have the FA parts for the AK-47.

Theoretically you can get the tax stamp to allow you to build your own reciever that is full auto.

If you don't like meeting bubba and you live in a state where personal property laws are completely eroded it may be worth it.$200 fee/tax, fingerprints and a background check and they should approve it.

Since a home made AK-47 is technically not an AK you can get it approved as a USA made device. (Or so I have been told from a lawyer friend of mine...)

But hey, your not gonna take that bad boy to the shooting range anyway, are you? Who's gonna know?

Just search on the internet for full auto ak-47 for dummies. Good instructions are out there!

DrugRunR

December 31st, 2006, 11:28 PM

No you can't
As a private individual (non 007 sot) you can not make a machine gun.
That stopped in 1986

For a $200 tax stamp (each) you can build silencers, Short Barrel rifles, and Short barrel shotguns. But you can't build machine guns.

ShadowMyGeekSpace

January 29th, 2007, 11:11 AM

You can manufacture an automatic weapon, because the GCA regulates manufacturing and the like through interstate commerce... although I believe you need a manufacturing FFL (class 3?) to do it.

Defendu

January 29th, 2007, 11:37 AM

because the GCA regulates manufacturing and the like through interstate commerce

I believe DrugRunR meant the machine gun and ballistic knife ban of '86, which was attached to the Firearm Owner's Protection Act.

festergrump

January 29th, 2007, 11:45 AM

So far as legalities in the USA are concerned, DrugRunR is correct about the needing a class 7 SOT, and even then it must be a sample submitted for LEO's agency demonstration and approval for future acquisition. Red tape and lots of paperwork apply.

Anyone who has or can obtain the correct NFA approved papers can have a preban transferred to them legally (with taxes applied also), but no more manufacturing going on for private use.

Check the cost of preban autos and it will reflect what I'm saying is true. There are only so many prebans out there and available for purchase, so the cost is astronomical...

ShadowMyGeekSpace

January 29th, 2007, 11:49 AM

Ahhhhh, my bad. I retract my previous post.

festergrump

January 29th, 2007, 01:22 PM

Just for clarification, the class 3 FFL is for manufacturing a weapon with the intent to sell it. This in no way involves anything which allows a weapon to fire more than one projectile per operation of the trigger mechanism (read: semi-auto, bolt, single shot, and other NON- FA actions).

The receiver of the manufactured firearm for sale must include the name and address of the manufacturer imprinted or engraved upon it to even a certain size and depth. :rolleyes:

You do not require such a license to make a _______-action (insert legally acceptable action here) firearm for your own personal use in the USA nor does it require any such name or address to be inscribed upon it, however, were one to make several "personal weapons" then find his/herself in dire finacial straights and need to sell them all... it might attract the kind of attentions you'd certianly want to avoid, depending on the quantity sold.

Just an observation I made as I do pay close attention to such laws and restrictions for safety sake. :) (me so law-abiding! We need a halo emote just for me... :D)

defiant

January 29th, 2007, 10:50 PM

I keep getting conflicting reports as to whether its legal to manufacture a full auto for personal use, and need to take the time to research the matter for myself. Towards this end, here's a link to the Firearm Owners' Protection Act, Title 18, Chapter 44 "Firearms", §§ 921 et seq.:

http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/18C44.txt

Legal issues aside, except for the dangers of slam firing a weapon, a lot of the preceeding information on AK full autos/conversions is incorrect or misleading. Slamfiring risks a bolt not being fully engaged, which can result in a cartridge rupturing and dispelling gases and fragments back at the shooter. Safe operation of a firearm requires that the headspace, the distance between the rear of a chambered cartridge and the front face of a locked bolt be within set parameters. Insufficient headspace prevents the bolt from locking, while too much headspace allows the cartridge to stretch rearward when its fired - which increases the likelihood that the cartridge will rupture and/or blow back gas and fragments at the shooter. The difference between acceptable and non-acceptable headspace is measured in the thousands of an inch, so slam firing has risks associated with it.

With regards to Romanian full autos, they did come out with a model with a full auto assembly that mounts forward of the trigger - but that assembly is for three round bursts. A full auto sear and disconnector are required, so its not a self contained full auto mechanism forward of the trigger. A diagram of the Romanian setup follows:

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/361/3shotburstaktriggerdiagbp7.gif

Anyway, the full auto trigger group will still result in slam firing. A full auto AK also includes full auto rails, full auto bolt, full auto bolt carrier, and a full auto safety/selector switch.

I'm no expert on full autos, but as I understand it the full autobolt and/or full auto carrier disengages the auto sear in a timed manner to ensure that the bolt is closed or has a chance to fully close prior to the hammer being released. In all likelihood the safety/selector switch disengages the disconnector. I have no clue what the notch in the full auto rail does.

One of the projects on my list is to build a cutaway full auto receiver. If I ever get around to it I'll post pics or a vid.

festergrump

January 30th, 2007, 10:59 AM

I have no clue what the notch in the full auto rail does.

I tried to use as much of the illustration you provided as I could to show the notch or slot in the right lower rail and how it's needed for the the full auto sear to work.

Everything else you mentioned is pretty much correct, the FA disconnector differs from the semi-auto one in that it has a "tail" that the selector/safety uses to disengage it, whereas the semi does not (this lack of a tail will in and of itself render an otherwise FA AKM into a semi-auto only one, but is not enough for the BATFE to recognise as a legal semi-auto only rifle).

From this doctored picture I hope you can get a better idea of how simple the design really is.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f348/festergrump/FASearRelationship.jpg

When the Bolt carrier brings the bolt to lock within the front trunion it passes over the portion of the FA sear sticking up above the slot in the lower rail, throwing the sear forward, thus tripping the hammer and firing the round.

You are correct in how the selector/safety holds the disconnector out of operation, so as long as the trigger is held... the bolt carrier will continue to move freely back and forth, first resetting the hammer to horizontal position (caught again by the notch in the front of the hammer by the auto sear on it's rearward motion, then travelling forward under spring pressure to strip the next round from the magazine and carry it to chamber, tripping the auto sear again once bolt is locked into battery to release the hammer... repeats itself until trigger is released and front hook of trigger interupts the cycle by holding the hammer back despite auto sear already being tripped for next shot.

I hope this makes sense...

The illustration you provided showing the three-round burst mechanism is more than likely of Polish manufacture, as they were the first to incorperate this into an AKM derivative they designed called the TANTAL, chambering the 5.45 X 39. Now, I believe Russia also uses it on there AK-100+ series, IIRC.

Disclaimer: Having an AKM with a receiver which has the holes drilled for the Auto Sear pivot pin AND/OR the slot in the Lower Right rail for the Auto Sear is considered by the BATFE as being in possession of a FULLY AUTOMATIC rifle, whether all the other FA parts are present or not...

http://www.bsg-dornier.de/schiessen/filme/filme.htm[/url]

Without an auto sear or disconnector, the hammer would simply ride the bolt carrier back into battery without enough inertia to fire the round. This especially being true due to the bump on the rear of the FA bolt carrier, which is only a safety feature the FA bolt carrier has (and the semi-auto only bolt carrier has not) to eliminate the risk of possible slam-fires.

defiant

January 30th, 2007, 08:24 PM

The drawing/illustration is of a Romanian Tantal. But as you correctly point out, the Polish Tantal and the Russian AK 100 has 3 round burst as well.

Your taking the time on the illustrations and explanation is acknowledged and appreciated, but there are still alot of missing pieces to the puzzle.

First, the notch I was talking about is not the one in the drawing - but the notch in the ejector port rail (left side of receiver):

http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/3614/akreceiverrailannotatedtf7.jpg

The semi auto doesn't have this notch.

The right side receiver rail is pictured below:

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/3715/picturejf7.jpg

The cutout notch you refer to can be seen in its correct orientation (below the slide, in front of the rivet). I'll bear your advice in mind, but that would position the full auto sear over the magazine well and some distance forward of the hammer.

The receiver in the photographs is a DCI "Premium" receiver. The "Premium" designation includes a receiver with full auto rails.

If anyone's got illustrations or photographs of full auto trigger group installed in a receiver - a post or link would be greatly appreciated. The "Full Auto Conversion" book on the AK is essentially useless. It doesn't even show an isnstalled trigger group (I'd have been ripped off if I paid money for it).

festergrump

January 31st, 2007, 11:10 AM

There does seem to be alot of needless confusion regarding the workings of a select-fire AKM. Gleaning info from an AKM forum is also a difficult task, as most will not cater to people who are not legally capable of owning a class 3 weapon...

My only experiences with a select-fire AKM are from handling one a friend had and brought over to show me. A lot of things clicked in my head once I saw how it was all put together and worked the action slowly, by hand, in each firing mode.

Aside from the lower right rail there is no need for a notch or cutout on the ejector (left lower rail) unless this has something to do with the tri-burst parts, which I doubt, but am not sure of entirely. The tri-burst mechanisms I have never had in my possession to fiddle with.

The cutout notch you refer to can be seen in its correct orientation (below the slide, in front of the rivet).

This is an easily made mistake. The right lower rail you show does not have the notch for the auto sear, which it DOES need to be an auto, or it is too dark of a picture to be seen.

Look more carefully at the rail from the picture then at the rail in the DCI receiver. The rail in the photo does not appear to have a slotted place for the Auto sear to poke up through whereas the one in the drawing does. The curl on the underside of the LR rail (just atop the mag dimple) is for magazine stability and nothing more (in fact, I have had to grind these down some on Tapco rails to get the mag to fit correctly without canting when building my own semi-auto model. Grind not enough off and the mag will cant and sometimes not feed correctly from the left side of the mag... too much and it will feed correctly but have some irritating magazine wobble).

Bear also in mind that in order for DCI to be able to sell a receiver with a slot on the LR rail for an auto sear it would be a class 3 item, as the receiver is the weapon according to BATFE. The slot makes it a "machinegun" as opposed to a semi-auto whether the auto sear pivot-pin holes are drilled yet or not. (man, I know it sucks).

Just look very carefully at the rail in your DCI and compare it to the one in the drawing. If there's a difference it should be apparent by paying close attention to the integrity of the topmost side of the rail (the part which will be in contact with the bolt). If it has a cutout about 5/8" x 1/8" on the receiver wall side it's full auto, if it is consistant in it's width the entire length of the rail it is not FA.

Here's a picture of a semi-auto rail I have on hand. It's from Tapco. Highlighted are the areas which would need to be removed before it will accept the auto sear:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f348/festergrump/example01.jpg

Alternatively, since the rails are already spotwelded in place on the DCI receiver, you could cut out the entire section with a Dremel-tool and use it like that. The space removed is about 5/8" and the section of bolt which rides on this rail is also about 5/8"... SWIM tells me you shouldn't have much problem since the bolt will pass over this entirely too quickly for the bolt to drop into, so long as the frontmost section remains on the same level as the rearmost (ie: not bent up or down)... :)

Here is a picture I just took of how the FA fire control group goes together:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f348/festergrump/example02.jpg

A) FCG axis pin
B) Trigger
C) FA Disconnector
D) Rate Reducer spring
E) Rate Reducer
*) FA "tail" on disconnector for selector lever to disengage disconnector when in FA mode

Note: Yes, I do have some FA parts left over from a kit or two. No, I do not ever use them in any of my semi-auto builds. I prefer to replace the entire FCG with US made parts to be 922r compliant, leaving out the rate reducer and it's spring.

Hope that helps!

nbk2000

January 31st, 2007, 12:52 PM

I've attached a color corrected version of the picture of the right rail that defiant posted.

festergrump

January 31st, 2007, 03:47 PM

Thanks for the color correction, NBK. :)

Now I can see that DCI might have played the 'confusion card' to their advantage... :mad:

I'll bear your advice in mind, but that would position the full auto sear over the magazine well and some distance forward of the hammer.

Actually, the armature of the auto sear which contacts the bolt carrier rides beside the magazine in the space allowed (about 1/8") by the magazine dimple and LR rail curl and rests just in front of the center support. The auto sear pivot axis is just behind the magazine well, does not interfere with the magazine at all, yet it is barely behind (and somewhat) below the center support. It IS in front of the hammer pivot, though. (it is confusing when explaining it, I know, but so simple when you just see it. My template is in .DXF format and I cannot provide a picture since my printer is out of ink and I cannot print it then scan it full size. I'll post it to Rapidshare in .DXF format if anyone needs it, though).

I have a Tapco flat and I think I have some thin cardboard handy. If needed, I could cut out a cardboard flat, bend and maybe somehow glue it into shape, and take some better pictures.

If this is needed or asked of me, it will better illustrate how it all fits, and I'll be happy to give it a shot. I will NOT brave the cold to to bend the flat, however (BRRR!), and will DEFINITELY not make a select fire receiver... sorry! :o

defiant

February 1st, 2007, 12:30 AM

DCI receivers are available at http://www.nodakspud.com/page2.htm. The receiver seems ok, but I haven't had time to test fit the trunnions or other parts yet. The Nodakspud add says that the premium receiver includes "top rail step-down" - and further down the page, "only really needed on full-auto guns"... So they don't say anything about the full auto sear cutout, just the step down which is evidently the "notch" in the left rail (w/the red arrow in the picture above).

Semi-auto AK's don't have this left rail notch. I don't know what that notch is for, but sooner or later that will be figured out.

As for the cutout notch on the right rail, you appear to be absolutely correct. Courtesy of a full auto kit, photos of the right rail follow:

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/7837/rail1oy8.jpg

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/7939/rail2se7.jpg

So if I'm not misinterpreting anything, the auto sear relationship to the right rail would look something like this:

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/9402/wautosearhg3.jpg

And aligning the spring as shown below, with the bent end of the spring fit into the small hole in the auto sear and the coiled hole in the spring lined up with the larger retainer pin hole in the auto sear:

http://img459.imageshack.us/img459/9089/searwspringmz8.jpg

http://img459.imageshack.us/img459/6328/searwspring2hk7.jpg

I haven't figured out what the free end of the spring goes, so any help in this regard would be appreciated ... :rolleyes:

I have a Tapco flat and I think I have some thin cardboard handy. If needed, I could cut out a cardboard flat, bend and maybe somehow glue it into shape, and take some better pictures.

You're explaining yourself fine without the model. Yesterday this was impossible:

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/4518/triggergrouplm6.jpg

Now for the legal disclaimer: I fully intend to build a full auto ak - but only after researching and complying with the legal requirements. Thus far my research leads me to believe that Class III weapons are legal to own in my home state of Florida, but an individual needs to have a chief law enforcement officer "sign off" that the individual is law abiding, and not a risk to society or the established order. Or something like that. The problem is, reportedly, that law enforcement won't sign the required form. The alternative may be to register the Class III weapon to a corporation - as corporations aren't required to have a chief law enforcement officer sign off. This applies to ownership of silencers, but I'm not positive it applies to full autos or full autos manufactured after 1986. Will post a legal treatise after researching the matter thoroughly.