OICW can it be improvise?

[Mad Dog]

Fore those who don't know OICW stands for (Objective Individual Combat Weapon)
http://members.tripod.com/~DragonC147/OICW2.html
My plan was to improvise a simplified version consisting of a home made sub-machine gun
and Kurt Saxon's slam-bang shotgun mounted on top. Dos anyone have any suggestions how it can be improved? Also I don’t have any sub-machine gun plans so can you can suggest a book or a web site that has appropriate gunsmithing advise it would be greatly appreciated



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If you kill someone and it makes the world a better place, is it so wrong?

[DaRkDwArF]

hmm if you wanted to use a slambang shotgun wouldn't it be better mounted underslung?
I think I would prefer NBK's Gyrojet project, it sounds a hell of a lot more sexier =)

[Mad Dog]

Question: what is "Gyrojet project"? I have a number of NBK's pdf's but I've never herd of Gyrojet.
And over thing if I put the slambang shotgun underslung would that mean that I should have a sub-machine gun simular to Sten Mk2 with a clip on the side of the weapon. Also from my entirely theoretical knowledge Sten is inaccurate and unreliable, but I may be wrong.




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If you kill someone and it makes the world a better place, is it so wrong?

[Agent Blak]

Dwarf,

At a distance the GyroJet is effective but up close and personal she is supposed to be shitty. it would be interesting to build though. As for being sexier...To Chix A Gun Is A Gun(sory FireFox but it is true); also most of the Chix I have met hate guns.



------------------
A wise man once said:
"...There Will Be No
Stand Off At High Noon
... Shoot'em In The Back
And, Shoot'em In The Dark"

Agent Blak-------OUT!!

[phyrelord]

it's not in a pdf it's one of his posts a gyrojet is a small gun which shoots rocket propelled ammo, at short range it is very, very weak, at long ranges though it's at full power. The bullet itself is about the size of a forty five shell (the whole thing). Oh and another thing is that it stabilizes itself because the two jets are sent out in opposite directions. Do a search for gyrojet posts and you should find it.

[DaRkDwArF]

Aye, theres your launcher, now underneath it you place your SMG =)

[AR-15 Man]

Just curious how do you plan on the infared/nvg display? And did you know it has a tracking system that follows moving objects like say if you run into brush it will give the user some idea of where you are at? It is one hell of a weapon system is one thing but don't think it would be easy to improvise and/or be reilable. I think it would be cool to try but nothing beats getting out and actually learning your weapon. I thought about getting a 500 dollar upgrade on my AR-15 but decieded to try everything first. Sure glad I did that. You would be suprised what you will learn. But I will say some good thing to add to any CQB rifle are holographic sights. Not the cheap 5 dollar wally world versions. If you can afford that buy some of that sight paint and paint a triangle and a dot in the middle of a piece of plexiglass. You would have to find some sort of mount but it should work out fine. Shouldn't matter anyway slam fire SMG's like you are wanting are not the accurate anyway. The shotgun underneath is a great idea.

[DaRkDwArF]

That idea's been tried and tested before, the US military were using them, I'm pretty sure it was a standard M203 with a 12ga adaptor. I've seen carazy jap workings though, they cut down a remington 870 and mounted it below an AR15... I'll look for the pic

[AR-15 Man]

Darkdwarf you are referring to something called a "master key". It is a cut down 870. It is in limited use for special forces. The M203 shotgun adapter was actually used in Vietnam for M79 users who only had a .45 pistol for defense. They later came up with a 40mm Buckshot round. I think the 40mm worth of buckshot is better than 12 gauge but it might of been a weight
consideration. Hell the first M-16's only weighted 5 and a half pounds. I would of carried one too. But that is why the came up with the M203 in the first place. I would just love to have an M203 with buckshot and HEAP rounds. But still on the topic of the subgun it would be more of
a PDW or CQB cause subguns aren't great rifles.

[Mad Dog]

AR-15 MAN I am attempting to make a simular weapon, to OICW I can't recrate all of the electronics so fare a close relative of mine offered me his IR scope and laser sight maybe I'll manege to get some over gadgets. And after reeding about Gyrojet project a slightly modified version of the project would be the best "primary" weapon to witch the IR scope will be fitted. I'll probably place the laser sight on the SMG so it will be my CQB weapon.

And one more thing dos any one have a good SMG or compact assault rifle plans they could land me?


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If you kill someone and it makes the world a better place, is it so wrong?

[SofaKing]

Remeber when ripley duct taped the m40A1 to the flamer, yeah I want that where can I get that ? What do you mean it's illegal, I'm going to talk to someone about this.

Then again the sentrys where cool two.

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With Knowledge we find Truth - With Truth we find Freedom

[AR-15 Man]

Mad Dog if you are using such good items like a IR scope and laser site don't use a homemade SMG. Heck go out and buy a good rifle like an AK, SKS, AR-15, one of the newer imported G-3's or FN-FALs. If you want an SMG and/or are strapped for cash try the PM-11 or AB-10. Do you have access to a machine shop to make the mounts? But in reality lasers and holosites belong on SMGs not IR scopes. They take away from their true purpose. Kinda like trying to use a low rider truck for off roading it isn't going to work. The OICW is suppose to be a rifle/mini missle platform anyway. Your is more of a high tech CQB weapon. But all of what I am saying is from a practical standpoint and goes back to my analogy of the low rider truck. The low rider truck like a SMG with lots of crap on it like IR scopes that weight it down but it looks cool and if that is what you are going for then let your imagination go wild. But if this is something you would take to combat keep it simple. All I can say is good luck and if you need any ideas just mail me.

[DaRkDwArF]

I wouldn't really like carting around an OICW, too bulky for me, I'd prefer a Styer AUG or one of th new HK series (the plastic Rifles) with holo sights. Thats probably because I've never fought a tank or a bunker full of men before but hey! If thats your cup of tea then build one, let me know how it goes =)

[HMTD Factory]

Improvising OICW?

Get a crossfire (.223 + 12Ga), mount a rangefinder night vision scope. Under mount a
grenade launcher, there you got yourself a 100 pound rifle.

OICW cannot withstand EMP blast if you want to know...After a soliton bomb exploded, the whole arsenal will fall prey to good old AKs.

[AR-15 Man]

Yea Darkdwarf hit it on the head the OICW is for HEAVY battles. Such as you jump out of the vehicle and are in the fight. It isn't a patrol, recon, or carry around weapon. It is to give each infantry man a hell of a lot of firepower in battle. Yea I would prefer any assualt rifle like AK, AR-15, G36, galil, valmet, ect. Yea it like HMTD Factory said it won't take an EMP blast.
HMTD Factory are you from Canada if you are I can see why you like AK's. I would too if I lived in a very cold region. Nope I get to live in the good ole south in the US. I do like the idea of mounting the stuff on the crossfire. To bad the rifle isn't semi. If I wanted a heavy weapon I would use a M1A, BAR, or some type of squad automatic weapon like RPK, M243, PKM, ect. Oh yea best thing for a tank battle is just to avoid them whenever you can. Wait till you liberate heavier weapons. I don't wanna be the poor bastard who tries to sneak up on a tank putting a charge around the turret. Remember tanks can only take ground not hold it anyway.

[DaRkDwArF]

Yeah I would honestly prefer an AK, easy to strip down and the rounds are abundant around here, around my area I face alot of different climates all offer different ways to fuck up a nice rifle, so yes an AK or something similar would be my choice, probably mount a holo sight and a flashlight and convert it to a folding stock

[Agent Blak]

The AK-47 is the most widely used assault rifle(it has seen the most battles). It is tried and True. It is russian and there for design for the russian climate(Same Canada).


------------------
A wise man once said:
"...There Will Be No
Stand Off At High Noon
... Shoot'em In The Back
And, Shoot'em In The Dark"

Agent Blak-------OUT!!

[AR-15 Man]

The AK is a good rifle. you can add cobra holo site, buy mags, ammo accessories very cheaply but I prefer the AR-15 series. Some may say AR are Jamomatics but they aren't if you clean them like you have to do every rifle. The AR series is flexible. In minutes you can change the rifle from a very accurate precision rifle to a handgun caliber subgun. I have abused AR every way. I live in the south so we don't usually have very cold weather but we do have rain, mud, swamps, hail, etc. Accuracy is one thing I strive for. That is another reason I chose the AR-15. But when it comes down to it just have a rifle. Heck in Vietnam and Pakistan guerilla forces mostly had pre WWII weapons. Oh yea darkdwarf most AK folding stocks have some play in them so you will some lose accuracy. If you want compact go for it.

[Mad Dog]

DaRkDwArF I have used both AK-47 and Styer AUG. AK may be heaver but it is more powerful and reliable but I may its just my heritage spiking as I was born and raised in Russia.(I an NOT a communist!!!) So if OICW is designed to be used only in large scale combat, what should I use to defeat any weapons or equipment that a SWAT team can use against me.

One more thing I am currently living in Australia so any assault weapon is outlawed so I'll have to construct it from scratch.



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If you kill someone and it makes the world a better place, is it so wrong?

[Mr Cool]

Just another comment on the Gyrojet: it's very quite (like an airgun, apparently) and since it fires rockets it can be totally recoilless. Also, since it fires rockets, no pressure has to build up, so it can be made from cheap, light materials (Al, plastic), and due to the spin stabilisation from the angled jets, no rifling is needed. In my opinion, it would be worth making the ammo (not very hard) for an improvised weapon because of these points. For the (very basic) ammo, just get copper tubing, seal one end with epoxy, fill it with a composite rocket fuel, and plug it with a disc of anything easily drillable and fairly strong, e.g. MDF. Then, using a jig, drill a central hole through the rear plug, and two small angled holes opposite each other on either side of the larger, main hole. Pour a little bit of BP in through the main hole, seal the other two holes with molten wax, and push a rifle primer in the main hole.
Once everything is set up you could mass produce these very quickly. It wouldn't matter if the MDF burnt, because by the time it had burnt a significant amount the rocket would have hit the target.

[PYRO500]

that does not sound easy or workable/safe

[AR-15 Man]

Mad Dog, that is awful you live their with such horrible gun laws. You might be able to make a AK-47 copy if you want a rifle. If the Afghans could make their own copy I am sure someone in a 1st world country could. You said you were from Russia? I have had training from people from former soviet satellite countries. Mainly Lithuania. But I have also had training from Korea era US soldiers, Vietnam era US soldiers and Current US soldiers. Plus a few others like from South America. Did you ever fire the real deal full auto AK version or full auto AUG Steyrs? Just curious. Well good luck with your OICW.

[Mr Cool]

The idea is both workable and safe. I made a 1" diameter rocket stabilised using angled jets. I used a paper roll cap to set it off, and BP with a bit of red phosphorous as an igniter because I didn't have any primers. The fuel was AN/Al/resin/ammonium dichromate/charcoal (actually I used potassium dichromate), as described in ALENGOSVIG1's site. I launched it from a cardboard tube with a nail in the bottom. The rocket was put about 1" into the tube, where it was stopped by a nail through the side. A length of string attached to this nail could be pulled from a distance, allowing the rocket to fall and be set off. It went very high very fast, and very straight.

I suppose it would be easier to make a gun though. I just mentioned this because I like experimental rocketry.

[PYRO500]

I once saw a gyro jet shot before, using copper tubing with a homemade propellant could be hazardous to your health, for one the gyrojet proplellant burns very slowly and it has no solid particles in the exaust that can clog the jet holes you made one with paper witch is what I would recomend you experiment with or else you might have just built a handheld finger remover

[DaRkDwArF]

Well then MadDog I guess you can understand what I mean by multi climate if you live in Australia =) Hmm the AUG is very easy to strip down but alot of others I know loose parts when stripping it down in the field. but the AK can have parts improvised easily if you happen to have the blueprints on you. IT's got alot more stopping power but the AUG is more accurate. Anyhow skipping to far off topic here. The OICW would really only be useful against LE and Military, bu if the military are there you've already spent to much time on the scene. I think it would be an excellent "SWAT stopper" just point and click at their van/bus =)

[Mad Dog]

I can't argue with that, AUG is more accurate and with AUG you can actually hit something while firing full auto (AK jumps too much). The only reason I prefer AK-47 is a more powerful round and the fact that it doesn’t contain any plastic which has a tendency to brake in -30C. I know someone who has AK-47 plans but all the commentary is in Russianso I can post them to anyone but you might not understand them.
Back to OICW is there any over ideas for a SWAT stoper rifle?


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If you kill someone and it makes the world a better place, is it so wrong?

[This message has been edited by Mad Dog (edited April 30, 2001).]

[Mr Cool]

I read a report on the gyrojet which stated that the muzzle velocity was 274 m/s, and that's in about 20cm of barrel. Therefore the fuel can't burn very slowly! And smoke won't clog anything. It's too fine, and it has several hundred, if not thousand, psi pushing it out of the way.
Well, they're fun, even if not practical for weapons use!

[PYRO500]

yes it may make a huge amount of pressure, if the pressure rises too fast it will explode wether it has a hole or not, and what clogs it is carbon debris from the black powder you will probably use

[HMTD Factory]

Yes I live in Canada and yes I love AKs.

But AK-47 can not be made really accurate like .223 rifles. 7.62X39 M43 caliber is not
accurate enough after 200 yards. 5.45X39 is better competeing to .223 Rem.

The Russian got a new shit called 9X39, ever heard of it?

Some AK-47 blueprints are cooler than other
AK-47 blueprints, how come?

THE COOLEST ONES ARE WRITTEN IN RUSSIAN!!!

So Mad Dog please post the naked picture of Ms. AK and I am gonna hang it on my walls.

[AR-15 Man]

Yea HMTD factory I have heard of the 9x39 round. It is very bad ass from what reports have said. But this is also from the people who make it. If they would let some of us "westerners" in to test it I would be very pleased. The 9x39 would make a good round for the OICW. Oh yea HMTD factory I thought all AK type rifle were banned by name in Canada? I also heard you all can get standard G36's but without Hi Cap mags. Your assessment of the AK situation is right. You ever heard of Valmets and Galils. Apparently they are accurate. I wouldn't know they run about $2000.

[HMTD Factory]

Anything that looks like AK or designed base on AK is banned in Canada, but can be traded between those who have a "prohibited firearm license". (Anything that looks like AK : Dragunov, Velmet, Galil, AK-22, Type 56, RPK,
Romak, the whole AK family...with only a few exceptions, such as "Velmet Hunter" and SKS.)

I was checking a .22 AK copy in a gun show but I was stopped by the dealer, he said in heavily accented English "If you don't have the permit then don't bother checking out the
gun." I was like #%&*@!^...

[Mad Dog]

I am back. I was unable to post for about two weeks(it's a long story).

And now for the bad news my scanner is out so I will not be able to post the AK blueprints for some time yet. The good news is that there is a chance that I will get my hands on SVD plans. So if I do I will be happy to scan them for anyone who is interested.


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If you kill someone and it makes the world a better place, is it so wrong?

[petermueller]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Mad Dog:
Fore those who don't know OICW stands for (Objective Individual Combat Weapon)
http://members.tripod.com/~DragonC147/OICW2.html
My plan was to improvise a simplified version consisting of a home made sub-machine gun
and Kurt Saxon's slam-bang shotgun mounted on top. Dos anyone have any suggestions how it can be improved? Also I don’t have any sub-machine gun plans so can you can suggest a book or a web site that has appropriate gunsmithing advise it would be greatly appreciated

</font>
look on the wild eyed psychos page


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[ANTI-SYSTEM]

holy damn if i had one of those ,even an improvised one the world wouldnt be the same. how much would one of those cost?

[AR-15 Man]

I was reading an artical about it a while back in Nation Rifleman and they prototype costed 40,000 dollars. You may say what the hell that is expensive. They hope by the issue date 2006 it should be down to 20,000 dollars which is the price of an Urban land warrior M-4. And bring it down to 11 pounds. Maybe they will maybe they won't. And the 20mm shells compents have been classified. They are coming out with a Machinegun version that will replace the MK-19 and M-2 Browing Ma Duece. Personally I think the M-2 needs to stay. It will be a decent replacement for the MK-19.

[Ragnar]

Hey, Mad Dog.
I would be very interested in the russian AK blueprints, I know someone who has a Ruski AKM that is missing the trigger mechanism and bolt. It's a '73.

[Mad Dog]

OK I am back
Sorry Ranger but my scanner is not working.

I have finally gave up on the project, the only thing that I acutely made (in my dreams of corse) was a "slam bang" with an attachment to fire NBKs hand grenades and "Molotov cocktails".

AR-15 Man, personally I consider that m-2 is outdated and needs to be replaced by a newer weapon and a deferent round e.g. 14.5mm or 15.2mm. Hey what's Urban land warrior M-4, I know what M-4 is I presume that Urban land warrior is a short way of saying "M-4 with every possible gismo attached to mace it look reel scary" was I far of.


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If you kill someone and it makes the world a better place, is it so wrong?

[AR-15 Man]

Why do you feel the M-2 is outdated? I am curious. I know there are better weapons but I feel it's purpose is anti aircraft and anti material weapons. Not anti armor. They have much better weapons for that purpose. Like 30mm auto cannons. As for the Urban land warrior it is a joke. To many gismos. Well it would be good for specfic purposes but that is it. Like heavy street fighting and you have a good supply line. Shouldn't be general issue EVER. I know I wouldn't want to be lugging around a 20 pound weapon that has too many gismos. I mean for 20 pounds I could have a belt feed. And for 11 pounds I can have an M-16A2 with M203.