That stuff made with milk...

[Mr Cool]

There was a procedure for making it here a while ago, but I searched for it here and elsewhere and found nothing.
It's supposedly a primary made by nitrating milk protein I think. I thought that since I now have lots of HNO3 I might as well try it, and tell you all my results. I'd always assumed that it was nonsense, but I don't know why. If you look at protein structures you can see that some of them might make nice explosives if they could be nitrated right.

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"Nothing makes a man fear much, more than to know little." - Francis Bacon.

[CodeMason]

I always assumed it was a mixture of nitrated fat and nitrolactose.

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[Mr Cool]

Yeah, maybe it is, I can't remember! But from what I can remember, I think they coagulated the protein with something, filtered and rinsed it, and then used that. Otherwise I'd have thought it'd just be nitrolactose, maybe with NG from the glycerol in fat or something. Could be lots of things!

Anyone have the procedure?


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"Nothing makes a man fear much, more than to know little." - Francis Bacon.

[CodeMason]

The procedure from Improvised Primary Explosives: <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">"MILK BOOSTER"

This is another explosive booster which is less known.
I don't know of which substance actually it is, but I think it's casein nitrate.
I've found the recipe in a very old chemistry book.
Here, I don't know the exact VoD, but it is written that 30 parts of it as a booster, will detonate pure ammonium nitrate.
Use fresh milk. Do not use powdered, dry, or instant milk.
PREPARATION:
Chemicals:
milk
nitric acid (70 %)
sulfuric acid (96%)
vinegar (common household)
destilled water
baking soda
Materials:
tablespoon
3 glass beakers
ice bath
1 filter paper (acid resistant is optimal)
MANUFACTURE:
1. Place 400 ml milk in a glass beaker.
Add 2 tbs. of vinegar (5-6 % acid). Let sit overnight.
2. In the next morning remove the precipitate sludge with your spoon. Dry this white stuff in the sun until a white substance remains. Powder the substance.
Yield: about 5-6 grams
3. In a 2nd beaker fill in 40 ml of 70 % (d= 1.42) nitric acid. Place the beaker in an ice bath until it is cooled down to 10°C. Then add 60 ml of the sulfuric acid.
4. Now, carefully stir in the 5-6 grams of (0.5 grams at one time) the "milkpowder"
while the temperature is kept below 20° C.
If the temp. rises close to the 20° mark, stop the addition until it begins to fall.
This step will take about 15 to 20 minutes.
5. After all "milkpowder" is stirred in, you should have a jelly or a quolled substance.
Let sit for 30 minutes.
6. Carefully pour the acid and the nitrated stuff through an acid resistant filter paper.
7. Neutralize the acid with common baking soda water.
8. wash the nitrated "milkpowder" with at least 5 tbs. of destilled water, and at last
with a 5%- baking soda/water solution.
9. The white primary explosive is stored in its moist form.</font>
(Sorry for any formatting errors.)

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[CodeMason]

I wonder what 30 "parts" means?

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[Mr Cool]

Thanks a lot, I'll give you the results a.s.a.p.

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"Nothing makes a man fear much, more than to know little." - Francis Bacon.

[CodeMason]

Milk is around 5% lactose (which will form nitrolactose), 4.5% fat (some of which will form nitroglycols), 3.5% casein (see below), the rest being water and trace minerals.

<u>More on nitrated proteins</u>
(Note this is just theoretical babble and I'm very tired so forgive errors please.)
Casein is merely a peptide with the right balance of amino acids (derivatives of alanine) to sustain young life.
Alanine (the simplest amino acid) has the formula:<font face="fixedsys">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;COOH
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|
NH2-CH
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;CH3</font>
It will form basic nitrate salts, and a nitramide is possible, via dehydration of said nitrate salt (think, nitrourea).
If the amino acid is linked into a peptide like casein, it has the following formula:<font face="fixedsys">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;CO~
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|
~NH-CH
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;CH3</font>
This still leaves open the possibility of an N-NO2 explosive, but it would be dubious how stable this would make the peptide bond. And the CH3, which is replaced by longer carbon chains to form all the amino acids of the rainbow, will form nitroaliphatics, eg. CH2NO2, CH(NO2)2, etc. Theoretically, one could attach nitric esters and nitroaromatics on there as well! I can just imagine strange TNT/NG and polynitramine hybrids.

All this hypothetical stuff aside, proteins would be a lot harder to nitrate, if they can be nitrated under normal conditions at all (doubtful, considering the usual lengths one must go to make nitramines or aliphatic nitrates), and the "milk booster" in my opinion is not likely to contain very significant amounts of nitrated peptide at all.

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[megalomania]

The "white stuff" you get after reacting milk with vinegar is more commonly knows as curds (aka curds and whey, the whey is the water). The dried power is technicially sodium caseinate, not casein itself.

This particular step can be greatly increased by cooking it on the stovetop. I would use a heated beaker, but you can add the vinegar to the milk while slowly simmering on the stove. I would not use a metal pan, bad side reactions and all. I also suggest using skim or powdered milk. Adding more vinegar can increase the process further. Stir the simmering milk and acid mix for several minutes, and then let it stand so the clumps can settle. Pour this into a coffee filter to remove the water, squeeze the filter (with the curds inside) to get out most of the remaining water, now let it dry. This is much quicker than waiting overnight and will have a greater yield.

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For the most comprehensive and informative web site on explosives and related topics, go to Megalomania's Controversial Chem Lab at http://surf.to/megalomania

[J]

You can buy all kinds of protein powders at sport suppliment shops, health food shops, and even catalogue shops. The protein is sold for weight lifting/body building.

The common types are Caseine (the cheapest and nastiest), Soya protein (also cheap), and Whey protein (can be very expensive). Beware, none of these are pure, usually only 80% or better.

I don't know much about the chemistry involved here, but buying the protein seems easier than extracting it from milk.

J

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[CodeMason]

Hrmmm, so it really is some form of nitropeptide! Very intriuging. Would anyone be able to give a general chemical formula using an alinine monomer perhaps? More information on its explosive properties would also be helpful. I'm doing a web search, but so far I haven't found much...

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[Mr Cool]

I did a quick search for nitropeptides, found nothing.
Do you think the protein chain is hydrolysed into the amino acids, or d'ya think it stays in one peice?
I think you'd get hydrogen bonding between the O's on the NO2 bit of the HNO3 and the H on the NH bit of the protein, and maybe these could then be dehydrated using H2SO4, like with urea etc., into a nitramine, but it seems very easy - as someone pointed out, making nitramines normally isn't that simple...
If the polypeptide stays in one piece, and it forms a nitramine, then using a chain of glycines (the simplest amino acid, in which the R group is just H), you'd get -(N(NO2)-CH2-(C=O))-n I hope you can understand my crazy way of drawing it out... if it's a ketonitramine like this, then you'd expect it to be rather powerful I think!
Anyone managed to find a patent for it?

I still need to get some more H2SO4, so I'll do that later this week and try it. Is anyone else giving it a go, or are you waiting to see if it works before you risk your chemicals (and rare, precious milk!)?!

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"Nothing makes a man fear much, more than to know little." - Francis Bacon.

[Mr Cool]

I actually think it might have worked...
I'm filtering the yellowish product now, and will have some test results, plus a full account of the reaction, some time tomorrow.

Edit: it's now dry (and looking more orange), and it shows no explosive properties :(
However, I'll try it again because to make the ppte from the milk dry faster I rinsed it in acetone, and this acetone made a milky suspension when diluted with water. It's probably just lipids, but it might be something important.
Also it goes very gel-like, so the acid will have had a hard time penetrating right into the blobs of gel, so next time I'll try and break them up more and let it react longer.

Results of hammer test: nothing.
Results of flame test: it blackens, burns poorly and puffs up into a pile of black ash.

[ January 04, 2002: Message edited by: Mr Cool ]</p>

[The Great Milenko]

hi, i've been interested in making "That stuff made with milk... " as you so eloquently put it Mr Cool :D , and i was just reading up on the uber archives, and i spotted a thread on nitric acid, you can find it <a href="http://odin.prohosting.com/~forumtwo/apr01/20011115-1-000152.html" target="_blank">here</a>, anyway i was thinking that since it only takes a relatively weak conc of nitric acid to nitrate the milk stuff, i thought that the same sort of principle that is used for picric acid and Mr Cool's way of making NC, could be used to make this milk protein, seeing as though i have no way of obtaining nitric acid as of yet.
Anyway, any answer to this would be apreciated
:)

<small>[ March 15, 2002, 07:42 AM: Message edited by: The Great Milenko ]</small>

[DBSP]

Hey milenko aren't you from bombshoch or whatever the place is called. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

[nbk2000]

Yes, he is.

I also seem to remember him being banned, though I'm not positive about that. I'll ask the other staff and see if they remember. If so, bye bye.

[The Great Milenko]

Dont discriminate against me just cause i'm from BS, and i thought that seeing as though my IP wasnt banned that i wasnt actually banned, atleast i did'nt make a new thread asking this or something even k3wler, i remember last time i was here and that whole "AP movies" thing happened, i did not know how this forum was ran so don't hold that against me, i do seem to remember you personally saying that if i shaped up i could stay on the forum, do you mean to tell me your going back on your word?
I promise to not be k3wl if you could just give me a chance :(
And hey atleast i'm not from totse, right?
But this is'nt the place to talk about such matters, i would have emailed you sooner NBK but you dont have your email in your profile.

<small>[ March 16, 2002, 03:56 AM: Message edited by: The Great Milenko ]</small>

[RTC]

NBK's email is in his email, just not the one you want. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

[nbk2000]

Well, I haven't heard from the rest of the staff about you being banned, so I guess you dodged that bullet.

[vulture]

I know about a procedure to determine amino acids in food stuff, it is done by adding conc. nitric and then boiling vigorously for 10-15min.
If there are any amino acids present, the test substance turns yellow because of attaching of NO2 groups, just like it happens with your skin.
This is possible with milk, but i doubt the nitrated amino acids have explosive properties.

Mr cool, the puffing which occured during flame test is a good sign, the same thing happens with insensitive HE's like TNT when exposed to flame. Because of the high number of carbon atoms it would have a highly negative oxygen balance, this would explain the carbon formation.

[The Great Milenko]

Well last time you said that i could stay on here if i shaped up, so i dont see what the problem is, can't we just put the past behind us and wipe the slate clean? :confused: :)

[DBSP]

Do you still moderate BS ??? If you do I think you should skip that shit and join us fulltime. Here you might do some good, at BS thay are allready "lost".

[The Great Milenko]

But whats better?
Too just disregard BS and pay them out cause they arent as elite as you?
Or too change BS into a site that is respectable, and not just another cookbook preaching faggy site?

[ALENGOSVIG1]

Everyone keeps getting off stopic!

Oh and milenko, why dont you fix the content of the site? Thats a pretty smiple task. But what about the forums?

You cant easily change them becuase you'd have to ban nearly all of the members. They're all idiots. I dont think there are many members of your forums that would'nt get banned from here a day after registering.

Hehe Looks like i got a bit off topic myself :)

<small>[ March 16, 2002, 09:40 PM: Message edited by: ALENGOSVIG1 ]</small>

[The Great Milenko]

Yeah i totally agree with you alen, most of the newbs that have recently registered with BS are overunning the site with threads on how to make fuses and other bullshit like that, and need to be culled, but how to tell a newb that will always spout uncontrollable cookbook nonsense, from one who will drop his/her newb ways and become a usefull member is a hard task to do, but your right, i am getting of the topic, i'm still wondering if what i said in the first post in this thread would work, perhaps i'll try it as soon as i get some more KN03.

[Edit in answer of noltair's post, under this one of course]
Yeah your right, i wont clutter up this thread with any more crap.
My name is to do with ICP, and i dont wanna hear anyone saying bullshit like "pfft ICP is gay", if you hate ICP, good for you, they're the most hated band in the US, it's nothing new to me.

<small>[ March 17, 2002, 03:51 AM: Message edited by: The Great Milenko ]</small>

[NoltaiR]

Under this thread really is not the place to discuss such matters and if you would like to beg for forgiveness from someone, please find some other way than to post it on here.. this is an E&W forum, not a 'who can plead their best' game. If you play around at bombshock, that is your decision, we don't need to hear about it at this forum. (Just don't try to bring any of your bombshock friends with you).

Basically quit acting like a pussy and start acting like an engineer of the explosive arts.

edit: one more thing, what's up with youg sig.. it worries me...

<small>[ March 17, 2002, 01:39 AM: Message edited by: NoltaiR ]</small>

[J]

Any more posts about bomshock, sigs or bands in this thread will get deleted.

[Dhzugasvili]

i tried this reaction from powdered milk...interesting i say...the reaction works with mildly satisfying results. What i have not tried, however, is the more interesting explosive application of the product, i was merely testing to see if what has been said here so far is accurate when applied practically...SO, onto the fun stuff, next time i try this, oh, and by the way, chems arent a problem for me, i got less milk than nitric...:-)

[megalomania]

I am not so sure using nitrate salts will be as effective as it would on other explosives. For one thing the solubility of casein in water is not very good, nor is it in organic solvents. Adding the nitrate salts will decrease the solubility even further (high concentrations of metal salts specifically cause casein to precipitate, I am not referring to the general decrease in the solubility product constant of adding other ions in solution). I wonder if this reaction could be improved with a higher concentration of acids. I thought the primary use of sulfuric acid in nitrating mixes was as a dehydrating agent. Using only 70% nitric would make it far less useful. Using nitrate salts may be useful in nearly 100% sulfuric acid. Scientists are still uncertain about the structure of casein, so it is hard to say exactly what you will end up with. Either way, adding acid will cause many unwanted side reactions, especially the precipitation of casein salts. Therefore, I would try a more severe washing than what the above instructions suggest, I am also curious as to why the temperature is kept low. This is one of those things that can only be satisfied through experimentation. The trick will be finding a set of reagents and reaction conditions that will work the best. Since the reference info is geared towards 'improvised' sunthesis, it may be lacking in the details to obtain a good yield (or a safe one).
An explosive of this nature would certainly confound the authorities. I wonder if dogs or forensic scientists would even know what they had. It would also be nearly impossible to trace the origins of this explosive if little more than milk and fertilizer are used to make it.

<a href="http://class.fst.ohio-state.edu/FST822/Images/as1casein1.GIF" target="_blank">Proposed casein structure 1, a s-casein</a>
<a href="http://class.fst.ohio-state.edu/FST822/Images/image17.gif" target="_blank">Proposed casein structure 2, k-casein</a>

I welcome you with open arms, Milenko, please excuse our skepticism of those from other forums. We have to fiercely defend ourselves from the same kewl assault that has destroyed bombshock, and so we can be a bit over protective. I am glad to see that a knowledgeable person such as yourself has chosen us. Whether or not a forum is worth saving is not the question, simply ask yourself where you would rather get your information from, them or us.

For those of you who want pure casein, I have a reference...
<DIV CLASS="title">CASEIN</DIV>
<DIV CLASS="authors">
Submitted by E. J. Cohn and J. L. Hendry</DIV>
<DIV CLASS="authors">
Checked by H. T. Clarke and W. M. Kennan</DIV>
<DIV CLASS="sectheading">1. Procedure</DIV>
<DIV CLASS="step">
<DIV CLASS="steppara">To 1 l. of milk, from which the cream has been largely separated <A target="_self" href="#Note58N1">(Note 1)</A>, <SPAN CLASS="chemical">0.05 M <SPAN CLASS="chemname"><A href="/orgsyn/chemname.asp?nameID=32803">hydrochloric acid</A></SPAN></SPAN> is slowly added, with stirring, through a <SPAN CLASS="apparatus">capillary tube extending to the bottom of the beaker</SPAN>. The addition is continued until the solution attains a pH of 4.6 <A target="_self" href="#Note58N2">(Note 2)</A>. The end point is determined by withdrawing 5-cc. samples, diluting to 50 cc., adding <SPAN CLASS="chemname">methyl red</SPAN>, and matching against a buffered series <A target="_self" href="#Note58N3">(Note 3)</A>. Approximately <SPAN CLASS="chemical">1 l. of acid</SPAN> is required; the separation of the <SPAN CLASS="chemical"><SPAN CLASS="chemname">casein</SPAN></SPAN> is practically complete at this point. Three liters of water is then added, stirring is discontinued, and the flocculent precipitate of <SPAN CLASS="chemname">casein</SPAN> is allowed to settle in the refrigerator for twelve to twenty-four hours. The clear supernatant liquid which contains soluble proteins and salts is removed as completely as possible by siphoning; the precipitate is collected on a <SPAN CLASS="apparatus">suction funnel</SPAN> and washed with cold distilled water until the washings are free of <SPAN CLASS="chemname"><A href="/orgsyn/chemname.asp?nameID=33190">calcium</A></SPAN> (give no precipitate with <SPAN CLASS="chemical"><SPAN CLASS="chemname"><A href="/orgsyn/chemname.asp?nameID=34210">ammonium oxalate</A></SPAN></SPAN>).</DIV>
<DIV CLASS="steppara">The <SPAN CLASS="chemname">casein</SPAN>, which is contaminated with <SPAN CLASS="chemical"><SPAN CLASS="chemname"><A href="/orgsyn/chemname.asp?nameID=33572">calcium phosphate</A></SPAN></SPAN> and fats, is filtered to as small a volume as possible (about 500 cc.) and transferred to a <SPAN CLASS="apparatus">2-l. beaker</SPAN>. It is then treated with <SPAN CLASS="chemical">0.1 M <SPAN CLASS="chemname"><A href="/orgsyn/chemname.asp?nameID=32818">sodium hydroxide</A></SPAN></SPAN>, the alkali being added slowly and with stirring through a capillary extending to the bottom of the beaker <A target="_self" href="#Note58N4">(Note 4)</A>. The addition of alkali is continued until the pH of the mixture reaches 6.3 <A target="_self" href="#Note58N5">(Note 5)</A>; <SPAN CLASS="chemical">100–150 cc. of the alkali</SPAN> is required. The end point is determined by matching against a buffered series <A target="_self" href="#Note58N6">(Note 6)</A>, employing <SPAN CLASS="chemical"><SPAN CLASS="chemname"><A href="/orgsyn/chemname.asp?nameID=53005">dibromo-o-cresolsulfonphthalein</A></SPAN> ("<SPAN CLASS="chemname"><A href="/orgsyn/chemname.asp?nameID=34867">bromocresol</A></SPAN> purple")</SPAN>. At this pH the <SPAN CLASS="chemname">casein</SPAN> is completely in solution in the form of its sodium salt; fats, <SPAN CLASS="chemname"><A href="/orgsyn/chemname.asp?nameID=33572">calcium phosphate</A></SPAN>, and any <SPAN CLASS="chemical"><SPAN CLASS="chemname">calcium caseinate</SPAN></SPAN> remain undissolved. Care must be taken not to add more alkali than is necessary to bring the pH to the above point <A target="_self" href="#Note58N4">(Note 4)</A>. The milky solution is filtered through a thick layer (10–15 mm.) of filter paper pulp tightly packed upon a suction funnel. The filtrate may be slightly opalescent; if it is less clear it is again filtered through a fresh layer of pulp.</DIV>
<DIV CLASS="steppara">The filtrate is brought to a pH of 4.6 with <SPAN CLASS="chemical">0.05 M <SPAN CLASS="chemname"><A href="/orgsyn/chemname.asp?nameID=32803">hydrochloric acid</A></SPAN></SPAN> just as in the original precipitation, the necessary amount of acid being determined by titration of an aliquot portion, diluted fivefold, with <SPAN CLASS="chemical">0.01 M <SPAN CLASS="chemname"><A href="/orgsyn/chemname.asp?nameID=32803">hydrochloric acid</A></SPAN>; 220–250 cc. of 0.05 M acid</SPAN> is required. As the reprecipitation progresses, the rate at which the acid is added is decreased in order to prevent precipitation at the tip of the capillary tube; vigorous mechanical stirring is, of course, essential. When the acidification is complete, 5 l. of cold distilled water is added and the flocculent precipitate allowed to settle in the refrigerator. After siphoning off the clear supernatant liquid, the <SPAN CLASS="chemname">casein</SPAN> is collected on a suction funnel, using hardened paper, washed with cold distilled water until free of <SPAN CLASS="chemname"><A href="/orgsyn/chemname.asp?nameID=34569">chloride</A></SPAN>, sucked as dry as possible, and dried over <SPAN CLASS="chemical"><SPAN CLASS="chemname"><A href="/orgsyn/chemname.asp?nameID=32771">calcium chloride</A></SPAN></SPAN> in a <SPAN CLASS="apparatus">vacuum desiccator</SPAN>. The yield is <SPAN CLASS="property">23–29 g.</SPAN> of a colorless coherent product which may readily be pulverized in a <SPAN CLASS="apparatus">mortar</SPAN>.</DIV>
</DIV>
<DIV CLASS="sectheading">2. Notes</DIV>
<DIV CLASS="notesbodies"><TABLE class="notetable" border="0">
<TR valign="baseline">
<TD width="24" align="right"><DIV CLASS="notelabel"><A name="Note58N1"></A>1.</DIV></TD>
<TD CLASS="notebody"><DIV class="notepara">The cream is satisfactorily removed by allowing the milk to stand in a refrigerator overnight and siphoning off the lower layer.</DIV>
</TD>
</TR>
</TABLE>
<TABLE class="notetable" border="0">
<TR valign="baseline">
<TD width="24" align="right"><DIV CLASS="notelabel"><A name="Note58N2"></A>2.</DIV></TD>
<TD CLASS="notebody"><DIV class="notepara"><SPAN CLASS="chemname">Casein</SPAN> exists in milk in the form of a calcium derivative; pH 4.6 is the isoelectric point of free casein, which is soluble to the extent of only 0.11 g. per liter.<SUP><A target="_self" href="#Ref121N1">1</A></SUP></DIV>
</TD>
</TR>
</TABLE>
<TABLE class="notetable" border="0">
<TR valign="baseline">
<TD width="24" align="right"><DIV CLASS="notelabel"><A name="Note58N3"></A>3.</DIV></TD>
<TD CLASS="notebody"><DIV class="notepara">Buffers for this range may be made up as follows:</DIV>
<DIV CLASS="tablediv"><table CLASS="contenttable" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="0" ID="t1">
<colgroup align="center" valign="middle">
<col align="center" valign="middle">
<col align="center" valign="middle">
<col align="center" valign="middle">
</colgroup><thead>
<tr><td colspan="3"><HR></td></tr>
<tr>
<th align="center" valign="middle">

0.1 M Acetic Acid</p></th>
<th align="center" valign="middle">

0.1 M <SPAN CLASS="chemname"><A href="/orgsyn/chemname.asp?nameID=32796">Sodium Acetate</A></SPAN></p></th>
<th align="center" valign="middle">

pH</p></th>
</tr>
<tr><td colspan="3"><HR></td></tr>
</thead>
<tbody>
<tr>
<td align="left" valign="middle">7.35 cc.</td>
<td align="left" valign="middle">2.65 cc.</td>
<td align="left" valign="middle">4.2</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="left" valign="middle">6.3</td>
<td align="left" valign="middle">3.7</td>
<td align="left" valign="middle">4.4</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="left" valign="middle">5.1</td>
<td align="left" valign="middle">4.9</td>
<td align="left" valign="middle">4.6</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="left" valign="middle">4.0</td>
<td align="left" valign="middle">6.0</td>
<td align="left" valign="middle">4.8</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="left" valign="middle">2.95</td>
<td align="left" valign="middle">7.05</td>
<td align="left" valign="middle">5.0</td>
</tr>
<tr><td colspan="3"><hr></td></tr>
</tbody></table></DIV>
</TD>
</TR>
</TABLE>
<TABLE class="notetable" border="0">
<TR valign="baseline">
<TD width="24" align="right"><DIV CLASS="notelabel"><A name="Note58N4"></A>4.</DIV></TD>
<TD CLASS="notebody"><DIV class="notepara">It is important to avoid a local excess of alkali, which would tend to denature the <SPAN CLASS="chemname">casein</SPAN>.<SUP><A target="_self" href="#Ref121N2">2</A></SUP></DIV>
</TD>
</TR>
</TABLE>
<TABLE class="notetable" border="0">
<TR valign="baseline">
<TD width="24" align="right"><DIV CLASS="notelabel"><A name="Note58N5"></A>5.</DIV></TD>
<TD CLASS="notebody"><DIV class="notepara">At this pH <SPAN CLASS="chemical"><SPAN CLASS="chemname">sodium caseinate</SPAN></SPAN> is largely dissolved, whereas <SPAN CLASS="chemname">calcium caseinate</SPAN> is largely undissolved.<SUP><A target="_self" href="#Ref121N3">3</A></SUP></DIV>
</TD>
</TR>
</TABLE>
<TABLE class="notetable" border="0">
<TR valign="baseline">
<TD width="24" align="right"><DIV CLASS="notelabel"><A name="Note58N6"></A>6.</DIV></TD>
<TD CLASS="notebody"><DIV class="notepara">The buffer series may conveniently be prepared as follows:</DIV>
<DIV CLASS="tablediv"><table CLASS="contenttable" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="0" ID="t2">
<colgroup align="center" valign="middle">
<col align="center" valign="middle">
<col align="center" valign="middle">
<col align="center" valign="middle">
</colgroup><thead>
<tr><td colspan="3"><HR></td></tr>
<tr>
<th align="center" valign="middle">

<SPAN CLASS="chemname"><A href="/orgsyn/chemname.asp?nameID=34868">Disodium Phosphate</A></SPAN> (M/15)</p></th>
<th align="center" valign="middle">

<SPAN CLASS="chemname"><A href="/orgsyn/chemname.asp?nameID=34869">Monopotassium Phosphate</A></SPAN> (M/15)</p></th>
<th align="center" valign="middle">

pH</p></th>
</tr>
<tr><td colspan="3"><HR></td></tr>
</thead>
<tbody>
<tr>
<td align="left" valign="middle">0.78 cc.</td>
<td align="left" valign="middle">9.22 cc.</td>
<td align="left" valign="middle">5.8</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="left" valign="middle">1.2</td>
<td align="left" valign="middle">8.8</td>
<td align="left" valign="middle">6.0</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="left" valign="middle">1.85</td>
<td align="left" valign="middle">8.15</td>
<td align="left" valign="middle">6.2</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="left" valign="middle">2.65</td>
<td align="left" valign="middle">7.35</td>
<td align="left" valign="middle">6.4</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="left" valign="middle">3.75</td>
<td align="left" valign="middle">6.25</td>
<td align="left" valign="middle">6.6</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="left" valign="middle">5.0</td>
<td align="left" valign="middle">5.0</td>
<td align="left" valign="middle">6.8</td>
</tr>
<tr><td colspan="3"><hr></td></tr>
</tbody></table></DIV>
</TD>
</TR>
</TABLE>
</DIV>
<DIV CLASS="sectheading">3. Discussion</DIV>
<DIV CLASS="discussionpara">The precipitation of <SPAN CLASS="chemname">casein</SPAN> in its uncombined form by the addition to milk of one or another acid forms the basis of all methods of preparation. These differ widely, however, in the subsequent purification. In the method of Hammarsten,<SUP><A target="_self" href="#Ref122N4">4</A></SUP> just enough alkali is added to dissolve this <SPAN CLASS="chemname">casein</SPAN> completely. The alkalinity reached in this process somewhat modifies its physical properties but probably not its composition. In the method of Van Slyke and Bosworth<SUP><A target="_self" href="#Ref122N5">5</A></SUP> the last trace of <SPAN CLASS="chemname"><A href="/orgsyn/chemname.asp?nameID=33190">calcium</A></SPAN> is removed by adding <SPAN CLASS="chemical"><SPAN CLASS="chemname"><A href="/orgsyn/chemname.asp?nameID=33577">oxalate</A></SPAN></SPAN> to an ammoniacal solution of the <SPAN CLASS="chemname">casein</SPAN>, but this procedure was shown to be unnecessary by Van Slyke and Baker.<SUP><A target="_self" href="#Ref122N6">6</A></SUP></DIV>
<DIV CLASS="discussionpara">The present process is based in large part upon that of Van Slyke and Baker, the modifications depending upon the observation that <SPAN CLASS="chemname">casein</SPAN> forms far more soluble compounds with univalent than with bivalent bases at neutral reactions.</DIV>
<HR>
<DIV CLASS="footnotes"><DIV CLASS="footnotehead">References and Notes</DIV>
<OL CLASS="footnotelist">
<LI CLASS="footnoteitem"><SPAN CLASS="footnotecontent"><A name="Ref121N1"></A>Cohn, J. Gen. Physiol. 4, 697 (1922).</SPAN></LI>
<LI CLASS="footnoteitem"><SPAN CLASS="footnotecontent"><A name="Ref121N2"></A>Cohn and Hendry, ibid. 5, 521 (1923).</SPAN></LI>
<LI CLASS="footnoteitem"><SPAN CLASS="footnotecontent"><A name="Ref121N3"></A>Loeb, ibid. 3, 547 (1920–21).</SPAN></LI>
<LI CLASS="footnoteitem"><SPAN CLASS="footnotecontent"><A name="Ref122N4"></A>Hammarsten, "Textbook of Physiological Chemistry," translation of 7th Ed., p. 619, John Wiley &amp; Sons, 1911.</SPAN></LI>
<LI CLASS="footnoteitem"><SPAN CLASS="footnotecontent"><A name="Ref122N5"></A>Van Slyke and Bosworth, J. Biol. Chem. 14, 211 (1913).</SPAN></LI>
<LI CLASS="footnoteitem"><SPAN CLASS="footnotecontent"><A name="Ref122N6"></A>Van Slyke and Baker, ibid. 35, 127 (1918).</SPAN></LI>
[/list=a]
</DIV>

<small>[ March 27, 2002, 06:24 PM: Message edited by: megalomania ]</small>

[kingspaz]

would the temperature need to be kept low to keep the protein from denaturing?

[megalomania]

It may be a combination of that, decomposition, and dehydration reactions all competing with each other. In a molecule of this size they all probably happen to some degree.

[Phoenix]

i wouldnt play with an explosive you dont even know the chemical structure nor any properties
changign big molekules in explosives is nothing i would advise cause there are always a lot of other reaktions too
hmm your fingers (:

[mr.evil]

Hello,
this evening i've mixed 30ml 6% Acetic acid(vinegar) with 400ml milk, after 30minuts the solution became thick, gelly stuff. I Filtered it with a filter paper, now i have about 30grams of fat, white stuff, i guess this isn't the caseine you need to make caseine nitrate? as it burns with a orange flame, i guess it isn't only casein but also milkfat, is it possible to nitrate this anyway?

when i throw the white stuff into water, it sinks down to the boddem, so it isn't fat.... (i thought fat floats, excuse me when i'm wrong)

Thnx,
mr.evil

[kingspaz]

not sure about this but i thought fats would dissolve in alcohol much better than proteins so if you dissolved the fat away from the protein...i dunno....i'm probably talkin crap.

[xyz]

If it's any help to anyone, Gelatine is 88% protein (or so says the container I have)

[The_Rsert]

Hello,
I've made the "milk booster" a few months ago.
I used expensive baby-milk with unknown additives and 25% acetic acid for the "milk powder".

It will detonate when heated and will burn like HMTD with a little yellow flame if lighted.
The product will let much residumms if lighted, but it will let no residuums if it's ignited by heat. The residuums will burn after the main explosion like nitro starch.
After I had made a few tests, I made a slurry of 3g milk booster and acetone and lighted it.
After one minute it detonated violently. The thick and flat steel container crushed and bended.
The stuff seems to be more powerful than AP.

I think it's nitrated lactose, fat, polypeptides, proteeins and inorganic salts.

Heres a little video: http://www.infernolabs.co.uk/filehost/file-list.php?dir=&file=Wet_Milk_Booster_LQ_Videonmade_by_The_Rsertn. avi

[Dr_Pind]

Sounds interesting! What procedure did you use, the original one, or an improvised one? It would be great if you could supply some info on your experiments, such as amounts, concentrations, temperatures and other, so that it may be reproduced by others.. Sounds VERY promising!
I wonder about stability though..

I only have acces to 62% HNO3, do you think it would work with such low concentrations? Maby by adding more H2SO4?

[FUTI]

mr. evil. you should wash the product you obtained with ethanol and ether to remove fat, and look for other post in this thread to learn how to obtain very pure product...and I'm almost sure that product you got is casein since mass you stated indicates that it certainly can be casein.

[Mr Cool]

Rsert, I can't see the video..?

[K9]

Try http://tinyurl.com/4bgld .

I want to try this, but I'm deterred by the idea of not being able to use a nitrate salt. Has anyone tried it that way or should I be the first for that?

[Joeychemist]

K9

I can't get the link to work. Its the same as the other link. :confused:

[Microtek]

The link works for me, but only with right-click-and-save-as. It seems much more flame sensitive than I would have expected, indeed, it looks as if it may DDT if confined. I'll probably have to give it a go too.

[K9]

You have to either right click save as, or copy+paste it into your browser bar. Chaz decided to disallow hotlinking.

But back on topic, I think I'll have a go with it using a nitrate salt. We'll see how well that works.

[The_Rsert]

You can also download the file(s) here:
http://www.infernolabs.co.uk/filehost/file-list.php
I have just uploaded a video with a better quality.
The new file has a size of 2.3 MB.
http://www.infernolabs.co.uk/filehost/file-list.php?dir=&file=Wet_Milk_Booster_HQ_Video_made_by_The_Rsert.M PG&PHPSESSID=4a19829301b2db3afe2d27552f324c84

I've made also some pictures:
http://members.fortunecity.de/potatoguns/milkboosterpic.html

Concerning the procedure:
I used a slightly modified procedure from the "improvised_primery_explosives.pdf" file with a little bit more washing-water and a little bit more nitric- and sulphuric acid.
The yield was poor. :(

Edit: I used for the experiement (my second successful experiement, the first attempt was a misfire) baby-milk with additives and not the first implied untrated milk.
It's edited now. Sorry!

I think, the (unknown)nitrated additives of the baby-milk makes it so sensitiv to flame.