megalomania
October 7th, 2002, 03:41 PM
nbk2000
Moderator
Posts: 1091
From: Guess
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 21, 2000 12:27 AM
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Before I describe this device I just want to let you know that my scanner is acting up so I'm using my digital camera instead, but it's not as clear as a scanner.
All the fuse and other explosive components will be simulated in the pictures since it would be illegal to actually build these.
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Now, to make these you'll need the following parts from the local hardware store:
One section of 1 1/4" PVC pipe cut into a 6" length
Two 1" pipe plugs
One 1 1/4" pipe cap
One threaded 1 1/4" coupler
One threaded 1 1/4" cap
(Now I know your saying to yourself "nbk2000 thinks that PVC pipebombs are something new?". Well I know they've been done to death before but this isn't what you think. Just keep reading.)]
You take the two 1" pipe plugs and trim them down so there's only a 1/4" instead of an inch of the part that goes into the pipe. You glue this plug into one end. This plug isn't to provide confinement, but mearly to protect the filler from exposure to air and water.
Now you make your igniter. This is done by taking a length of fuse long enough to provide a 5 second delay and, taking a length of 1/2" OD vinyl tubing that's trimmed long enough to cover all but 1 3/4" of it, centering it in the vinyl and packing the space between with hand softened pellets of wax. This prevents blowby and premature detonation. Leave about a 1/4" of fuse sticking out the end. This is for igniting the filler.
Next you fill the pipe with your explosive filler. AP putty is perfectly suited for this since it doesn't need a detonator to explode, thus removing any metal from the device.
Press in your explosive about half way up the pipe. Place a dowel 1/2" dia. on top of the filler and proceed to fill the rest of the space around this dowel with the explosive. Once the explosive is a quarter inch from the top, you remove the dowel. This leaves space for the detonator (or igniter).
Take the second 1" plug (also trimmed down like the first one) and insert the long end of the fuse through a center drilled hole just slightly larger than the fuse itself.
Be sure to place a single layer of tape around the fuse where it passes through the plug hole to keep the fuse from going out.
Press more wax around the fuse assembly till it's level with the end of the plug. This is more protection against blowby and water.
Glue the plug into place with the igniter assembly in the hole made by the dowel. It would be a good idea to put some igniter powder like some crused match head powder or sugar/chlorate to make sure the fuse ignites the filler.
Once you've done this you've got what looks like a classic pipebomb, but this isn't the end of it.
Next, you take a book of matchs and make a pull fuse igniter. You make this one very short though by laying out the match section and placing a strip of tape just below the matchheads. Then you cut off all the cardboard from a 1/2" from the match heads. The tape holds the matches lines up properly.
Next you lay your fuse on the match igniter and fold up the matches in 3 sections around the fuse with the heads lined up with the fuse end. Wrap some tape around the cardboard part of the matchs to keep them from unfolding and keep wrapping down around the fuse to keep it in place.
Next you take the paper part of the match book with the striker pad and cut off the paper on the short end just below the striker. Fold it in half just below the match heads and tape it snugly so it will rub hard against the heads without being so tight that it can't be pulled off.
Fold the paper back so that there's a total of about 3/4" of paper and trim the rest off. Tape the tab around itself to keep it from unfolding.
Now take a length of string about 8-12" long and pass it through the fold in the paper of the pull igniter and tie a knot around the igniter. A small bead is slipped on the string and knotted into place on the end.
Take the string and pass it through the threaded connector which you now slip over the pipe and glue into place. The string is folded down into the hole and the cap screwed into place.
Take the 1 1/4" cap and slip it over the other end but DON'T glue it on.
(Now your going "So what! PVC isn't going to do much damage." True enough, but that's where this next part comes in. )
You take a length of the PVC pipe that you're using and use it a mold to form a removable fragmentation sleeve that will slip over the blast grenade you've just made.
You do this by first thickly coating the pipe mold with wax. Then, using paper or gauze, you make the frag sleeve. This is done by making 1 wrap with the paper (I'll assume paper) cut to the width between the connector and end cap (about 3 3/4"), and using a thin line of glue to hold the paper to itself.
Once it's dry you lay a line of BB's (or 1/4" slingshot ammo) in the fold and continue laying line after line of shot as you slowly turn the pipe, wrapping the shot up in the paper.
In this picture I've used plastic wrap so you could see the arranging of the shrapnel around the grenade. Here I've used 1/4" and 3/8" shot and roller bearings. You'd probably want to use BBs because of the greater hit probability.
After you have a single layer (or more if you want) you proceed to paint the whole thing over with styrofoam saturated acetone or gas. This soaks through the paper and glues everything into place and keep the paper from breaking or the shot from rattling.
If you're quick, you can measure out the paper ahead of time and coat the whole thing with the acetone/styro glue and pour the BB's on it and wrap it up around the form. But be REAL quick or the acetone evaporates away and the paper turns hard and breaks as you try to wrap it.
Once the sleeve is hardened (several layers of acetone/styro glue till it's hard as a rock) you slip the sleeve off. You may have to dunk it in hot water to melt the wax to release the sleeve.
Be sure the form pipe is warm (120F or so (sunlight) so that it's expanded larger than usual. This will ensure there's enough clearence for when you want to slip this frag sleeve off your grenade.
In use, the frag sleeve is already on the grenade and removed by pulling off the unglued 1 1/4" cap and sliding off the sleeve when blast only is desired.
=============================================
There it is. You now have a waterproof, non-metallic (with no sleeve), pull fused grenade that converts in a second from lethal fragmentation with a thousand fragments to lethal blast with a half pound of high explosive.
And if you want you can push a length of PVC pipe into the open end of the threaded adaptor, use a longer string, and have a potato masher style grenade that you can throw even farther.
The grenades cost about $5 each, not counting filler or frags.
The LA bank robbers would have been better off if they had some grenades with them, especially the one who got shot while trying to get a new car. (see video here.)
He could have chucked a couple of grenades over his car to where the cops were and blown them into baco-bits.
Shit, this is what they should have done (besides get caught), come out of bank laying suppresive fire while driving at high spped towards the nearest exit, chucking grenades at pigs hiding behind cars. As piggies are killed, push through road block chucking smoke behind you to cover your retreat and prevent persuit.
Any piggies get in your way, full auto AP with frags, deploying smoke to cover your rear. Shit gets too thick, start chucking firebombs to light the neighborhood on fire so piggies have to divert effort to saving civvies.
Once free of immediate police contact, pull a ninja turtle under cover of smoke and leave behind a booby trap or two to prevent immediate pursuit.
------------------
"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them"
Go here to download the NBK2000 website PDF.
[This message has been edited by nbk2000 (edited December 21, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by nbk2000 (edited December 22, 2000).]
MacCleod
Frequent Poster
Posts: 215
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted December 21, 2000 03:36 AM
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Hi,NBK.Kick-ass design!.I can't wait to see the pictures.When making your pull fuse igniters,have you ever used a gum-band instead of tape to put tension on the striker?The rubber gives,keeps a steady pressure on the matches when pulled apart.I've had way less "non-lights"with these.Thanks again for the grenade info!.
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"There can be only one!"
Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 765
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 21, 2000 02:25 PM
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I like the cut of you Jib.
For the Frag grenade why not use Glass it fags in to Razor Blades and won't set of metal detection devices.
------------------
A wise man once said:
"It is Better to Die on Your Feet; Than to Live on your Knees "
--Zappata
Agent Blak----OUT!!
vehemt
Frequent Poster
Posts: 580
From: Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 21, 2000 02:38 PM
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Glass loses its energy quickly(just like paper, plastic and wood). Metals like steel and lead have much larger killing radius'.
BoB-
Frequent Poster
Posts: 649
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 21, 2000 05:13 PM
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Well, were talking about a high explosive (AP putty) so the glass will be blown into sand grain sized bits
BoB-
Frequent Poster
Posts: 649
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 21, 2000 05:32 PM
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5 seconds to get away from a 1 1/4"x6" high explosive grenade
Damn NBK, you must run reeeeaallllly fast
Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 765
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 21, 2000 08:58 PM
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You would throw it I assumed. that glass would better because that way it would be completely non-meltalic Device. Also Glasswould not show up on a X-Ray(I don't think so anyway) and it would Act like an ArrowHead(continues to cut if they keep running0); Translation it would Keep them Better Down Better.
I Am pretty Sure that it would not shatter in to sand like pieces(Un less you used Tempered Glass, So don't).
Fear
Frequent Poster
Posts: 103
From: lucifer
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 21, 2000 11:51 PM
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Glass shatters from shock, vibration or fast temp. changes, a bomb has all of those. A rotten fruit can ruin the crop, why not use an inside job to do it? or copy the clothing of a groundcrewman, sneak into the yard under cover of night, and work then.
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There is nothing to fear but fear itself
nbk2000
Moderator
Posts: 1091
From: Guess
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 22, 2000 02:00 AM
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Glass in contact with an explosion will be pulverized to dust. If placed some distance away though it will be shattered into larger pieces and blown around.
McLeod, the idea of using a rubber band is a good one. That would be better than tape.
Fear, what are you referring to by "inside job"? The LA robbers weren't going to be pulling an inside job on a bank.
------------------
"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them"
Go here to download the NBK2000 website PDF.
Fear
Frequent Poster
Posts: 103
From: lucifer
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 22, 2000 02:17 AM
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Having a very very very good friend or yourself that works there, or seems to work there place a bag in the wating area past the metal detectors, bag has bomb, gun, ect. (I am on the thoght of airports, metal could be in electronic gadgets without arousing suspition)
What if the LA bank robbers had a friend in the high up military, who got em some goodies, maybe a tank, or a few LAW's, or a tactical nuclear missile
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There is nothing to fear but fear itself
[This message has been edited by Fear (edited December 22, 2000).]
SofaKing
Frequent Poster
Posts: 392
From: YEAH RIGHT !!
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 22, 2000 10:10 AM
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What kind of shrapnel does that one you found a picture of have. It looks kind of oblong or is it a poor quality pic ?
I've theorized that the nuts and other junk laying around traintracks would be nasty and very heavy.
nbk2000
Moderator
Posts: 1091
From: Guess
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 22, 2000 11:52 AM
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The shrapnel in the picture is a mix of round and oblong bearings. It's not the picture distorting them, although the picture is kind of crappy.
Nuts, bolts, and nails would also work, but they're not as good as nice and roundly aerodynamic bearings. That's why militaries use round shot, because it will travel farther and faster than jagged shards.
In the context of the LA robbers, they'd want to use larger caliber shrapnel because they would need to kill the cops immediately as compared to just wounding them. Large shot does more damage, penetrating deep into the body, compared to BBs which would just disable.
------------------
"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them"
Go here to download the NBK2000 website PDF.
Maddoc
Moderator
Posts: 534
From: Somewhere on this earth....
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 22, 2000 12:38 PM
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NBK2K, the problem is that when you pull the ninja turtle into the sewers, then you drown in shit, eaten by rats, forget where you parked etc...
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Whoa, where my fingers?
Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 765
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 22, 2000 06:28 PM
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I hope someone would not be stupid enough to go in to the sewers without planning a head(Maps, Breathing apperatus, Chemical Flameless Smoke Bombs, etc.)
------------------
A wise man once said:
"It is Better to Die on Your Feet; Than to Live on your Knees "
--Zappata
Agent Blak----OUT!!
Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 765
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 22, 2000 06:41 PM
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Are you going to draw a Diagram Of the Striker System?
A picture is worth a 1000 Words.
DaRkDwArF
Frequent Poster
Posts: 258
From: Australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 22, 2000 11:59 PM
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5 sconds is more then enough time to throw the thing, almost all military and police grenade fuses are about 5 seconds these days, better than 25 seconds back in world war one lol
yes I too believe that grenades could certainly change the face of a battle, one or two grenades on each of them would have made the battle rage on for at least another 10 minutes and you know what pigs hate worse than grenades, heavy weapons, if they had a mortar in the trunk of their car there would have been no stopping them lol
Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 765
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 23, 2000 02:57 PM
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IF they would of had some Sniper suport from a near by skyscaper there would have been no stopping them.
From the video I have seen they would have been to close to use a morter without Injuring themselves(Or running a huge risk of).
------------------
A wise man once said:
"It is Better to Die on Your Feet; Than to Live on your Knees "
--Zappata
Agent Blak----OUT!!
Machiavelli
Frequent Poster
Posts: 278
From: Germany
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 23, 2000 02:58 PM
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Could somebody explain to me the use of designing a nonmetallic grenade and then using a metallic fragmentation sleeve?
How about ceramic slingshot ammo? It would make the whole thing more expensive but at least it should be nonmetallic. Or marbles?
nbk2000
Moderator
Posts: 1091
From: Guess
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 24, 2000 12:22 PM
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The point IS to have the option of either a non-mettalic blast grenade that can pass through a metal detector, or a more effective fragmentation grenade, all combined into the same device where the simple pulling off of an end cap effects the conversion in one second.
If you try to make a frag grenade using non-metalic fragments you end up with something that doesn't really work at all because anything non-metalic is going to be pulverized into dust in such close contact with a high explosive.
Plastic: too light
Glass: too fragile
Ceramic: too brittle
Now you MIGHT be able to use something like nylon balls, but they probably wouldn't penetrate, just be more of a pain inflictor which distracts the victim while you close with a more lethal weapon. Kind of like a super flash-bang.
Metal is the only really effective material for frags because of hardness and density.
I tried to edit my first post to include the section below but kept getting an error message saying the script couldn't complete.
Whatever
So here's the section.
==========================================
Now you make your igniter. This is done by taking a length of fuse long enough to provide a 5 second delay and, taking a book of matchs, make a pull fuse igniter. You make this one very short though by laying out the match section and placing a strip of tape just below the matchheads. Then you cut off all the cardboard from a 1/2" from the match heads. The tape holds the matches lines up properly.
Next you lay your fuse on the match igniter and fold up the matches in 3 sections around the fuse with the heads lined up with the fuse end. Wrap some tape around the cardboard part of the matchs to keep them from unfolding and keep wrapping down around the fuse to keep it in place. Next you take the paper part of the match book with the striker pad and cut off the paper on the short end just below the striker. Fold it in half around the match heads.
Fold the paper back so that there's a total of about 3/4" of paper and trim the rest off. Rubber band the tab around itself to keep it from unfolding and to provide the friction to the stricker pad to ignite the match heads (thanks to Macloud for the rubber band).
Now take a length of string about 8-12" long and pass it through the fold in the paper of the pull igniter and tie a knot around the igniter. A small bead is slipped on the string and knotted into place on the end.
Pass the free end of the fuse through a hole (slightly larger than the fuse) that has been drilled in an end plug. Make sure you put a single wrap of tape around the fuse where it comes in contact with the plug to prevent a fizzle.
Slip a length of 1/2" O.D. or so plastic tubing cut to such length that a quarter inch of fuse end is exposed. Center the fuse in the tubing and pack the space between with small beads of wax that are hand softened and pressed in with a small stick. This is to prevent premature explosion from fuse blow by.
DO NOT melt the wax into the tube, this will soak into the fuse and render it useless.
Now pack the space in the end cap with wax in the same manner. This stabilizes the fuse into the center and prevents any possible flame from the burning fuse getting out around the tube and prematurely exploding the grenade. You may want to use putty epoxy instead if you expect hot weather to prevent any possible melting of the wax and failure of the fuse.
This is the finiehed fuse assembly.
Take the string and pass it through the threaded connector which you now slip over the pipe and glue into place. There should be enough string hanging out that you can get a good yank without there being so much that it hanging down to the ground. Not too long, not too short.
[http://server3001.freeyellow.com/nbk2000/fuse6.GIF[/img]
The string is folded down into the hole so it won't tangle, the bead (or cap in this case) put in, and the cap screwed into place.
[http://server3001.freeyellow.com/nbk2000/fuse7.GIF[/img]
------------------
"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them"
Go here to download the NBK2000 website PDF.
nbk2000
Moderator
Posts: 1091
From: Guess
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 24, 2000 12:52 PM
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Take the string and pass it through the threaded connector which you now slip over the pipe and glue into place. There should be enough string hanging out that you can get a good yank without there being so much that it hanging down to the ground. Not too long, not too short.
The string is folded down into the hole so it won't tangle, the bead (or cap in this case) put in, and the cap screwed into place.
=========================================
While a mortar would be too big and too long ranged to have been used, what they could have used would have been rifle grenades. Use a slam-bang shotgun with a blank shell to launch these grenades with a dowel extension inserted in the plug.
There could be a slot cut in the side of the threads and end of the dowel to allow the fuse igniter to pass outside. The string is looped around a small stud on the slam-bang.
When the grenade is launched, the fuse is ignited and 5 seconds later the grenade explodes.
I'm sure with practice a person could hit a car at several hundred yards with these "mini-mortar" ahells. Easily outdistanceing the police and getting behind they're cover.
I don't know how stable AP putty would be to the launch shock though. Perhaps a plastic explosvie like in my PDF with an lead styphante/picric acid detonator. No AP or HMTD, too sensitive.
Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 765
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 24, 2000 04:15 PM posted December 24, 2000 12:22 ave.net/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=Agent+Blak" target=_blank>
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Nice job on the pictorial NBK2000. Very informative.
------------------
A wise man once said:
"It is Better to Die on Your Feet; Than to Live on your Knees "
--Zappata
Agent Blak----OUT!!
nbk2000
Moderator
Posts: 1091
From: Guess
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 03, 2001 02:48 PM
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Since I had practically written an entire article on them I figured I might as well start with these for my new file so here's the grenade article with new pictures, corrections, and video.
<a href="http://server3001.freeyellow.com/nbk2000/Grenades.pdf" target="_blank">http://server3001.freeyellow.com/nbk2000/Grenades.pdf</a>
This is still just a rough version. Still have to include launchable version with launcher.
Moderator
Posts: 1091
From: Guess
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 21, 2000 12:27 AM
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Before I describe this device I just want to let you know that my scanner is acting up so I'm using my digital camera instead, but it's not as clear as a scanner.
All the fuse and other explosive components will be simulated in the pictures since it would be illegal to actually build these.
============================================
Now, to make these you'll need the following parts from the local hardware store:
One section of 1 1/4" PVC pipe cut into a 6" length
Two 1" pipe plugs
One 1 1/4" pipe cap
One threaded 1 1/4" coupler
One threaded 1 1/4" cap
(Now I know your saying to yourself "nbk2000 thinks that PVC pipebombs are something new?". Well I know they've been done to death before but this isn't what you think. Just keep reading.)]
You take the two 1" pipe plugs and trim them down so there's only a 1/4" instead of an inch of the part that goes into the pipe. You glue this plug into one end. This plug isn't to provide confinement, but mearly to protect the filler from exposure to air and water.
Now you make your igniter. This is done by taking a length of fuse long enough to provide a 5 second delay and, taking a length of 1/2" OD vinyl tubing that's trimmed long enough to cover all but 1 3/4" of it, centering it in the vinyl and packing the space between with hand softened pellets of wax. This prevents blowby and premature detonation. Leave about a 1/4" of fuse sticking out the end. This is for igniting the filler.
Next you fill the pipe with your explosive filler. AP putty is perfectly suited for this since it doesn't need a detonator to explode, thus removing any metal from the device.
Press in your explosive about half way up the pipe. Place a dowel 1/2" dia. on top of the filler and proceed to fill the rest of the space around this dowel with the explosive. Once the explosive is a quarter inch from the top, you remove the dowel. This leaves space for the detonator (or igniter).
Take the second 1" plug (also trimmed down like the first one) and insert the long end of the fuse through a center drilled hole just slightly larger than the fuse itself.
Be sure to place a single layer of tape around the fuse where it passes through the plug hole to keep the fuse from going out.
Press more wax around the fuse assembly till it's level with the end of the plug. This is more protection against blowby and water.
Glue the plug into place with the igniter assembly in the hole made by the dowel. It would be a good idea to put some igniter powder like some crused match head powder or sugar/chlorate to make sure the fuse ignites the filler.
Once you've done this you've got what looks like a classic pipebomb, but this isn't the end of it.
Next, you take a book of matchs and make a pull fuse igniter. You make this one very short though by laying out the match section and placing a strip of tape just below the matchheads. Then you cut off all the cardboard from a 1/2" from the match heads. The tape holds the matches lines up properly.
Next you lay your fuse on the match igniter and fold up the matches in 3 sections around the fuse with the heads lined up with the fuse end. Wrap some tape around the cardboard part of the matchs to keep them from unfolding and keep wrapping down around the fuse to keep it in place.
Next you take the paper part of the match book with the striker pad and cut off the paper on the short end just below the striker. Fold it in half just below the match heads and tape it snugly so it will rub hard against the heads without being so tight that it can't be pulled off.
Fold the paper back so that there's a total of about 3/4" of paper and trim the rest off. Tape the tab around itself to keep it from unfolding.
Now take a length of string about 8-12" long and pass it through the fold in the paper of the pull igniter and tie a knot around the igniter. A small bead is slipped on the string and knotted into place on the end.
Take the string and pass it through the threaded connector which you now slip over the pipe and glue into place. The string is folded down into the hole and the cap screwed into place.
Take the 1 1/4" cap and slip it over the other end but DON'T glue it on.
(Now your going "So what! PVC isn't going to do much damage." True enough, but that's where this next part comes in. )
You take a length of the PVC pipe that you're using and use it a mold to form a removable fragmentation sleeve that will slip over the blast grenade you've just made.
You do this by first thickly coating the pipe mold with wax. Then, using paper or gauze, you make the frag sleeve. This is done by making 1 wrap with the paper (I'll assume paper) cut to the width between the connector and end cap (about 3 3/4"), and using a thin line of glue to hold the paper to itself.
Once it's dry you lay a line of BB's (or 1/4" slingshot ammo) in the fold and continue laying line after line of shot as you slowly turn the pipe, wrapping the shot up in the paper.
In this picture I've used plastic wrap so you could see the arranging of the shrapnel around the grenade. Here I've used 1/4" and 3/8" shot and roller bearings. You'd probably want to use BBs because of the greater hit probability.
After you have a single layer (or more if you want) you proceed to paint the whole thing over with styrofoam saturated acetone or gas. This soaks through the paper and glues everything into place and keep the paper from breaking or the shot from rattling.
If you're quick, you can measure out the paper ahead of time and coat the whole thing with the acetone/styro glue and pour the BB's on it and wrap it up around the form. But be REAL quick or the acetone evaporates away and the paper turns hard and breaks as you try to wrap it.
Once the sleeve is hardened (several layers of acetone/styro glue till it's hard as a rock) you slip the sleeve off. You may have to dunk it in hot water to melt the wax to release the sleeve.
Be sure the form pipe is warm (120F or so (sunlight) so that it's expanded larger than usual. This will ensure there's enough clearence for when you want to slip this frag sleeve off your grenade.
In use, the frag sleeve is already on the grenade and removed by pulling off the unglued 1 1/4" cap and sliding off the sleeve when blast only is desired.
=============================================
There it is. You now have a waterproof, non-metallic (with no sleeve), pull fused grenade that converts in a second from lethal fragmentation with a thousand fragments to lethal blast with a half pound of high explosive.
And if you want you can push a length of PVC pipe into the open end of the threaded adaptor, use a longer string, and have a potato masher style grenade that you can throw even farther.
The grenades cost about $5 each, not counting filler or frags.
The LA bank robbers would have been better off if they had some grenades with them, especially the one who got shot while trying to get a new car. (see video here.)
He could have chucked a couple of grenades over his car to where the cops were and blown them into baco-bits.
Shit, this is what they should have done (besides get caught), come out of bank laying suppresive fire while driving at high spped towards the nearest exit, chucking grenades at pigs hiding behind cars. As piggies are killed, push through road block chucking smoke behind you to cover your retreat and prevent persuit.
Any piggies get in your way, full auto AP with frags, deploying smoke to cover your rear. Shit gets too thick, start chucking firebombs to light the neighborhood on fire so piggies have to divert effort to saving civvies.
Once free of immediate police contact, pull a ninja turtle under cover of smoke and leave behind a booby trap or two to prevent immediate pursuit.
------------------
"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them"
Go here to download the NBK2000 website PDF.
[This message has been edited by nbk2000 (edited December 21, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by nbk2000 (edited December 22, 2000).]
MacCleod
Frequent Poster
Posts: 215
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted December 21, 2000 03:36 AM
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Hi,NBK.Kick-ass design!.I can't wait to see the pictures.When making your pull fuse igniters,have you ever used a gum-band instead of tape to put tension on the striker?The rubber gives,keeps a steady pressure on the matches when pulled apart.I've had way less "non-lights"with these.Thanks again for the grenade info!.
------------------
"There can be only one!"
Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 765
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 21, 2000 02:25 PM
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I like the cut of you Jib.
For the Frag grenade why not use Glass it fags in to Razor Blades and won't set of metal detection devices.
------------------
A wise man once said:
"It is Better to Die on Your Feet; Than to Live on your Knees "
--Zappata
Agent Blak----OUT!!
vehemt
Frequent Poster
Posts: 580
From: Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 21, 2000 02:38 PM
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Glass loses its energy quickly(just like paper, plastic and wood). Metals like steel and lead have much larger killing radius'.
BoB-
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Posts: 649
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 21, 2000 05:13 PM
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Well, were talking about a high explosive (AP putty) so the glass will be blown into sand grain sized bits
BoB-
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Posts: 649
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 21, 2000 05:32 PM
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5 seconds to get away from a 1 1/4"x6" high explosive grenade
Damn NBK, you must run reeeeaallllly fast
Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 765
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 21, 2000 08:58 PM
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You would throw it I assumed. that glass would better because that way it would be completely non-meltalic Device. Also Glasswould not show up on a X-Ray(I don't think so anyway) and it would Act like an ArrowHead(continues to cut if they keep running0); Translation it would Keep them Better Down Better.
I Am pretty Sure that it would not shatter in to sand like pieces(Un less you used Tempered Glass, So don't).
Fear
Frequent Poster
Posts: 103
From: lucifer
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 21, 2000 11:51 PM
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Glass shatters from shock, vibration or fast temp. changes, a bomb has all of those. A rotten fruit can ruin the crop, why not use an inside job to do it? or copy the clothing of a groundcrewman, sneak into the yard under cover of night, and work then.
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There is nothing to fear but fear itself
nbk2000
Moderator
Posts: 1091
From: Guess
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 22, 2000 02:00 AM
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Glass in contact with an explosion will be pulverized to dust. If placed some distance away though it will be shattered into larger pieces and blown around.
McLeod, the idea of using a rubber band is a good one. That would be better than tape.
Fear, what are you referring to by "inside job"? The LA robbers weren't going to be pulling an inside job on a bank.
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"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them"
Go here to download the NBK2000 website PDF.
Fear
Frequent Poster
Posts: 103
From: lucifer
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 22, 2000 02:17 AM
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Having a very very very good friend or yourself that works there, or seems to work there place a bag in the wating area past the metal detectors, bag has bomb, gun, ect. (I am on the thoght of airports, metal could be in electronic gadgets without arousing suspition)
What if the LA bank robbers had a friend in the high up military, who got em some goodies, maybe a tank, or a few LAW's, or a tactical nuclear missile
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There is nothing to fear but fear itself
[This message has been edited by Fear (edited December 22, 2000).]
SofaKing
Frequent Poster
Posts: 392
From: YEAH RIGHT !!
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 22, 2000 10:10 AM
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What kind of shrapnel does that one you found a picture of have. It looks kind of oblong or is it a poor quality pic ?
I've theorized that the nuts and other junk laying around traintracks would be nasty and very heavy.
nbk2000
Moderator
Posts: 1091
From: Guess
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 22, 2000 11:52 AM
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The shrapnel in the picture is a mix of round and oblong bearings. It's not the picture distorting them, although the picture is kind of crappy.
Nuts, bolts, and nails would also work, but they're not as good as nice and roundly aerodynamic bearings. That's why militaries use round shot, because it will travel farther and faster than jagged shards.
In the context of the LA robbers, they'd want to use larger caliber shrapnel because they would need to kill the cops immediately as compared to just wounding them. Large shot does more damage, penetrating deep into the body, compared to BBs which would just disable.
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"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them"
Go here to download the NBK2000 website PDF.
Maddoc
Moderator
Posts: 534
From: Somewhere on this earth....
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 22, 2000 12:38 PM
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NBK2K, the problem is that when you pull the ninja turtle into the sewers, then you drown in shit, eaten by rats, forget where you parked etc...
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Whoa, where my fingers?
Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 765
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 22, 2000 06:28 PM
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I hope someone would not be stupid enough to go in to the sewers without planning a head(Maps, Breathing apperatus, Chemical Flameless Smoke Bombs, etc.)
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A wise man once said:
"It is Better to Die on Your Feet; Than to Live on your Knees "
--Zappata
Agent Blak----OUT!!
Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 765
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 22, 2000 06:41 PM
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Are you going to draw a Diagram Of the Striker System?
A picture is worth a 1000 Words.
DaRkDwArF
Frequent Poster
Posts: 258
From: Australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 22, 2000 11:59 PM
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5 sconds is more then enough time to throw the thing, almost all military and police grenade fuses are about 5 seconds these days, better than 25 seconds back in world war one lol
yes I too believe that grenades could certainly change the face of a battle, one or two grenades on each of them would have made the battle rage on for at least another 10 minutes and you know what pigs hate worse than grenades, heavy weapons, if they had a mortar in the trunk of their car there would have been no stopping them lol
Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 765
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 23, 2000 02:57 PM
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IF they would of had some Sniper suport from a near by skyscaper there would have been no stopping them.
From the video I have seen they would have been to close to use a morter without Injuring themselves(Or running a huge risk of).
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A wise man once said:
"It is Better to Die on Your Feet; Than to Live on your Knees "
--Zappata
Agent Blak----OUT!!
Machiavelli
Frequent Poster
Posts: 278
From: Germany
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 23, 2000 02:58 PM
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Could somebody explain to me the use of designing a nonmetallic grenade and then using a metallic fragmentation sleeve?
How about ceramic slingshot ammo? It would make the whole thing more expensive but at least it should be nonmetallic. Or marbles?
nbk2000
Moderator
Posts: 1091
From: Guess
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 24, 2000 12:22 PM
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The point IS to have the option of either a non-mettalic blast grenade that can pass through a metal detector, or a more effective fragmentation grenade, all combined into the same device where the simple pulling off of an end cap effects the conversion in one second.
If you try to make a frag grenade using non-metalic fragments you end up with something that doesn't really work at all because anything non-metalic is going to be pulverized into dust in such close contact with a high explosive.
Plastic: too light
Glass: too fragile
Ceramic: too brittle
Now you MIGHT be able to use something like nylon balls, but they probably wouldn't penetrate, just be more of a pain inflictor which distracts the victim while you close with a more lethal weapon. Kind of like a super flash-bang.
Metal is the only really effective material for frags because of hardness and density.
I tried to edit my first post to include the section below but kept getting an error message saying the script couldn't complete.
Whatever
So here's the section.
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Now you make your igniter. This is done by taking a length of fuse long enough to provide a 5 second delay and, taking a book of matchs, make a pull fuse igniter. You make this one very short though by laying out the match section and placing a strip of tape just below the matchheads. Then you cut off all the cardboard from a 1/2" from the match heads. The tape holds the matches lines up properly.
Next you lay your fuse on the match igniter and fold up the matches in 3 sections around the fuse with the heads lined up with the fuse end. Wrap some tape around the cardboard part of the matchs to keep them from unfolding and keep wrapping down around the fuse to keep it in place. Next you take the paper part of the match book with the striker pad and cut off the paper on the short end just below the striker. Fold it in half around the match heads.
Fold the paper back so that there's a total of about 3/4" of paper and trim the rest off. Rubber band the tab around itself to keep it from unfolding and to provide the friction to the stricker pad to ignite the match heads (thanks to Macloud for the rubber band).
Now take a length of string about 8-12" long and pass it through the fold in the paper of the pull igniter and tie a knot around the igniter. A small bead is slipped on the string and knotted into place on the end.
Pass the free end of the fuse through a hole (slightly larger than the fuse) that has been drilled in an end plug. Make sure you put a single wrap of tape around the fuse where it comes in contact with the plug to prevent a fizzle.
Slip a length of 1/2" O.D. or so plastic tubing cut to such length that a quarter inch of fuse end is exposed. Center the fuse in the tubing and pack the space between with small beads of wax that are hand softened and pressed in with a small stick. This is to prevent premature explosion from fuse blow by.
DO NOT melt the wax into the tube, this will soak into the fuse and render it useless.
Now pack the space in the end cap with wax in the same manner. This stabilizes the fuse into the center and prevents any possible flame from the burning fuse getting out around the tube and prematurely exploding the grenade. You may want to use putty epoxy instead if you expect hot weather to prevent any possible melting of the wax and failure of the fuse.
This is the finiehed fuse assembly.
Take the string and pass it through the threaded connector which you now slip over the pipe and glue into place. There should be enough string hanging out that you can get a good yank without there being so much that it hanging down to the ground. Not too long, not too short.
[http://server3001.freeyellow.com/nbk2000/fuse6.GIF[/img]
The string is folded down into the hole so it won't tangle, the bead (or cap in this case) put in, and the cap screwed into place.
[http://server3001.freeyellow.com/nbk2000/fuse7.GIF[/img]
------------------
"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them"
Go here to download the NBK2000 website PDF.
nbk2000
Moderator
Posts: 1091
From: Guess
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 24, 2000 12:52 PM
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Take the string and pass it through the threaded connector which you now slip over the pipe and glue into place. There should be enough string hanging out that you can get a good yank without there being so much that it hanging down to the ground. Not too long, not too short.
The string is folded down into the hole so it won't tangle, the bead (or cap in this case) put in, and the cap screwed into place.
=========================================
While a mortar would be too big and too long ranged to have been used, what they could have used would have been rifle grenades. Use a slam-bang shotgun with a blank shell to launch these grenades with a dowel extension inserted in the plug.
There could be a slot cut in the side of the threads and end of the dowel to allow the fuse igniter to pass outside. The string is looped around a small stud on the slam-bang.
When the grenade is launched, the fuse is ignited and 5 seconds later the grenade explodes.
I'm sure with practice a person could hit a car at several hundred yards with these "mini-mortar" ahells. Easily outdistanceing the police and getting behind they're cover.
I don't know how stable AP putty would be to the launch shock though. Perhaps a plastic explosvie like in my PDF with an lead styphante/picric acid detonator. No AP or HMTD, too sensitive.
Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 765
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 24, 2000 04:15 PM posted December 24, 2000 12:22 ave.net/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=Agent+Blak" target=_blank>
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Nice job on the pictorial NBK2000. Very informative.
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A wise man once said:
"It is Better to Die on Your Feet; Than to Live on your Knees "
--Zappata
Agent Blak----OUT!!
nbk2000
Moderator
Posts: 1091
From: Guess
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 03, 2001 02:48 PM
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Since I had practically written an entire article on them I figured I might as well start with these for my new file so here's the grenade article with new pictures, corrections, and video.
<a href="http://server3001.freeyellow.com/nbk2000/Grenades.pdf" target="_blank">http://server3001.freeyellow.com/nbk2000/Grenades.pdf</a>
This is still just a rough version. Still have to include launchable version with launcher.