Improvised electrical weapons

[Azazel]

anyone devised anything which charges up capacitors or capacitor type projectiles which offer a decent shock and are then fired from some kind of weapon... ??? sound gay ?

not too sure myself never ever really thought of anything like this before...

my ideas are that the weapon has some kind of battery or power source which charges up some type of capacitor able to hold a large charge... i think something of this sort exists in disposable cameras. i got shocked to this shit house once when i opened one up... so i figure why not make some kind of pneumatic weapon which charges them and then shoots them at a target [living of course]

kind of like a stun gun... what kind of cappacitor would i be looking at ??? how do you make your own capacitor. The simple design is basically 2 metal plates close to each other but not touching. the plates are hooked up to some kind of power source creating + and - charge on the plates. when disconnector from the power source the capacitor holds that charge effectively. So... physics ppl... tell me how i can make some kind of missile shaped capacitor which could hold a large charge, large enough to stun an animal.

I guess this ones for physics people more than it is for me... i havnt taken many physics classed b4. if im completely wrong please tell me if i got it all wrong. thanx guys :confused:

[Machiavelli]

About the subject of charging up capacitors by variable means to shock people, especially with disposable cameras, there was a thread a short while ago, <a href="http://www.roguesci.org/cgi-bin/ewforum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000341" target="_blank">http://www.roguesci.org/cgi-bin/ewforum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000341</a> please fucking search before asking will you? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Now as far as projectiles go, it shouldn't be too difficult to fire charged up capacitors from a blowgun or some improvised breach loading toy.

If you wanted to stun someone, you probably wouldn't use a capacitor as these will only give you a small shock and that's it, what you'd need is a stun gun projectile. Jaycor is developing such a thing to stun two-legged animals:
<a href="http://www.jaycor.com/eme/sticky.htm" target="_blank">http://www.jaycor.com/eme/sticky.htm</a>

I'm sure this could be minituarized, but I'm no expert on stunguns, maybe J can help you with this.

Btw, anyone tested the effects of capacitor shocks on electronic equipment?

[Azazel]

ya i checked them but this topic is abit more broad...discusses firing the projectile and devising a weapon which would charge them before firing... thanx for the info though i appreciate it very much :)

[J]

What are your objectives? Do you want to kill or simply hurt/annoy? You won't stun someone with a cap, you'll either kill or momentarily hurt them depending on how powerful the cap is. If you want to kill them, just use a gun. And you'll never make a homemade cap that's anything like as good as what's needed for this purpose.

The main problem I can see is turning a large cap into a good projectile. That's not really my field, perhaps someone else can help with that. You'll also need pointy barbed electrodes that will penetrate clothing and stick into skin. This would take some getting right, and I don't know how you'd safely test this.

That Jaycor link is very interesting, I didn't know anyone was making such a device.

A stungun could be made that small, but it would be difficult to improvise. The main problems are the pulse transformer and capacitor. Both are usually bulky, but I've seen commercial 50kV pulse transformers that are only 20mm x 50mm (http://www.global-components.com/mag/triggers.pdf). Unfortunately, they won't sell/give me any because I don't live in the US. They refered me to the Chinese off-shoot, but the cunts didn't even reply.

Stabilising such a projectile would be difficult. A bullet has uniform density. This device wouldn't, since there are lots of individual components inside. I think this would be your major problem, rather than the circuitry. If it's for a 37mm calibre gun, you could take apart a small commercial stungun, use a different battery (it doesn't have to last that long), and change the PCB design to fit into your projectile. You could change some of the components at the same time if smaller equivalents were available.

My advice is buy a taser! But if you're serious about building one, I'll help with any questions on the electrical side.

[Jack Ruby]

Stablizing projectiles is easier to do than most think. The most common ways are:
Fins(like on a dart or rocket)
Spinning(Like a rifle does to a bullet)
Tassels(Creates resistance at the rear. To projectile takes the path of least resistent). If you don't under stand what I mean I can draw a picture for you and post it.

[Arkangel]

The sticky shocker system is interesting in the way it's fired, in that it uses a compressed gas-charged launch system. Relates a little to the link on air weapons in that respect. I'd be really interested to know how they fire this if it's from a "standard 40mm" weapon.

[nbk2000]

Alliant Techsystems Disorientation Device - 5.56 mm 1-(201)724-6053 Ammunition fired from an M16 rifle which upon impact inflicts an electric shock which potentially causes disorientation.

That's pretty tiny folks. And it'll only get smaller.

[Azazel]

wow that pretty cool... cool crowd control device... it would rock to open fire on civilians with full auto and not actually harm anyone...

[FragmentedSanity]

I think this would be an interesting device to piss people off. for lethal results the cap would have to be fairly big and as said a gun would be easier - things might be interesting if someone had a pacemaker - would make yet another interestign munition for pnumatic cannon tho.
but I like the idea of frying electrics with it better. shot at a TV antenna there might be enugh power to cause damage to the set.

and J - would you really need barbed tips? dosent the cap discharg completley as soon as the contact is made?

[vulture]

How bout a dart fired from a crossbow with a cable to the high voltage device you're using? This would ofcourse only work for short distances, but then you won't have to worry about capacitor size.
Also, you can deliver multiple shocks once the target has been hit.

[J]

The speed at which the cap discharges is proportional to the resistance of the load. IIRC, the time it takes (seconds) to discharge to ~70% of it's capacity is 0.69(RC), where R = resistance of load (Ohms) and C = capacitance (Farads). I may have got this slightly wrong, I can't be bothered to look it up.

But anyway, a cap fired at someone will likely bounce off quickly, especially when clothing comes into play. So they won't get the full charge.

I've just had an idea for an improvised taser that doesn't use barbs. Instead, two velcro pads could be used, with a conductor behind each one. They would have to be held apart obviously. The disadvantage is that the target can easily pull the electrodes off, but if the shock's sufficiently powerful then they'd have to act quickly.

[mrloud]

I have heard of 2 parallel lasers a few centimetres apart being used to ionise the air between a gun and the target. The idea is that a high voltage is applied between the ionised paths the lasers create in order to 'zap' whatever you point the gun at. I suspect any such device that was built was highly experimental and didn't work properly. Not to mention the cost of tens of thousands of dollars.

But it gives me an idea. Two supersoakers from the toy store could be mounted together and filled with a conductive solution. Apply a high voltage between the resevoirs and squirt the target with both guns. A pair of guns that shoot a thick stream of water would be more effective in providing a good electrical connection between the gun and the target. It would probably still only be any good over short distances. Like a Kwik-E-Mart counter. It would also give you the element of surprise in a hold up. The victim, upon seeing your Super-Soaker contraption with connecting wires and flashing lights, will either:
A) Fall down laughing or
B) Hand over the cash while thinking "What sort of twisted freak is this guy?!?!? I Better do what he says" or
C) Tell you to "Fuck off and stop wasting my time!". In which case you can give him a hosing somewhere sensitive to show him the error of his ways. Like in the face and neck.

When you're developing any sort of electrical weapon you are going to need something to test it on. Try the neighbours cat (or dog if you are a cat person). If your weapon is designed to be fatal to the person on the business end, you might need to invest in the time to go and steal some kids gerbils/guinea pigs and start breeding your own lab animals. But thats another topic.

[J]

The main problem with that is that the water streams break up into droplets very quickly. You would need some kind of agent added to the water to prevent this. Any ideas?

And testing it on the cat is a bad idea, because they hate water anyway so you'll have no idea whether it's the current or water pissing them off :D

My choice of test animal would be a cow. They're big, so there's no chance of killing it (electric shock devices are used to control them anyway - cattle prods!), and you'd be able to tell if it was simply the water or the current by the way it moved.

[BrAiNFeVeR]

I don't think this would work very well.
a few con's:
-water breaks down when high current flows through, thus extra interuption of the water beam
-water (or any liquid for that matter) tends to get on your own hands too ...

80% H2O + 10% H2SO4 + 10% plasticizer might do the trick.

[Machiavelli]

Feels like history repeating...

Well, some time ago, people were discussing the subject of electrified water cannons, I believe the topic was called "death ray" or something like that. Well people had a lot unpractical ideas, a lot of "this might work, I've seen this in a movie, this would be kewl" kinda stuff. Then along came lil mac with some practical ideas and some background and suddenly the discussion stopped for some strange reason.

Anyway, I'll try to put together my ideas from back then. The basic idea came from Jaycor again, if some of you had read about the sticky shocker you should have noticed their other toy:
<a href="http://www.jaycor.com/eme/watcan.htm" target="_blank">http://www.jaycor.com/eme/watcan.htm</a>

"An electrified conductive fluid is ejected from a gun at high velocity, making contact with stationary or moving targets. The single stream of fluid delivers a high-voltage pulse capable of delivering a shock even through thick protective clothing."

"The wireless stun gun delivers a high-pressure saline solution with additives to minimize the breakup of the beam into droplets, thereby maximizing range. Ranges of up to 20 feet have been demonstrated, while ranges of up to 100 feet or more are believed to be feasible with improved nozzles and fluids."

"A high-voltage electrical signal with low current is generated in a compact electronic package with 9-volt batteries. The impedance of the water stream is sufficiently low that it cannot be relied on to limit current to sure-safe levels; consequently current-limiting resistors are used to limit currents to sure-safe levels. A single stream is used to deliver the current. The return path from the target is through the capacitive impedance between the gun and the target."

My suggestions:
-play around with a saturated NaCl solution and different thickeners (soluable starch, agar, gelatin, alginates, etc) whether you can obtain a suitable liquid
-use a plastic tank system thats pressurized with eg a small compressor and finish it up with an improvised metallic nozzle, maybe a syringe needle to which you can hook up a stun gun, the other pole of the stun gun goes to ground
-post test results instead of more ideas, forumites tend to come up with a lot of ideas but don't follow up on them

[vulture]

There are molecules which load up on static because of the friction with eachother. If you could fire them in a way they would bounce alot against eachother, they would load up and discharge if they hit something.