Blank Firers

[Aggy]

I know this subject has come up many times before but its never been fully explained. Has anyone got any ideas on how to modify a blank firing gun to fire bullets (changing the barrel). By bullets I mean improvised ones, I know they'd probably blow up if you use live ammo. Not all of them are made from zinc either iv'e seen some steel ones about, also a fully automatic mac 10. I know modified ones exist because I went on the homeoffice website and they had a report about ten blank firing 8mm berettas being recovered after a raid, they had been converted to fire live 8mm rounds. Also had an article about brocock air cartridge revolvers being converted to fire live .22 rounds.
The reason I ask about blank firers and not deactivated guns is that you basically have a full working gun opposed to the deactivated ones. I remember Maddoc posting a little while ago saying that he'd soon be getting plans about converting an 8mm glock blank firer.

[Aggy]

I uploaded a few pics of the full auto mac10.
Http://aggy.50megs.com

[Anthony]

Hmm I still haven't got round to getting that cheap blank firer (9mm) from guns2u.com. I was thinking I'd start with sections of 9mm wooden dowel as a projectile and work up to steel rod, possibly with aluminium rod first. I could cast some lead slugs but I don't think they'd be too great, high chamber pressure and low muzzle velocity and also poor armour piercing unlike the steel slugs.

Also, when I get this thing I'm going to mail order some blank rounds but I'm not quite sure which ones I need, do I want "9mm blanks" or "9mm blanks Auto"? I'm guessing the auto's are for blow backs like the gun I'm getting but I'm not sure. The auto's are cheaper BTW.

[richl261]

guns2u.com....wow, i found a new favourite page http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/smile.gif

do they deliver stun guns to the uk, do you know?

[jin]

has anybody ordered anything from guns2u.com
they dont give out there address or even the country there in.i sent them a email asking for a address to send them a money order and they told me they only do credit card orders.

[Donutty]

AK47, M16, FN-FAL...drool...

I know the company that has those adverts to order them from (in Gun Mart)

Yeah guns2u.com is cool - the guns they sell have no blocked barrel and fire the muzzle flash from the barrel.

Yup, can only use a credit card. Thank god for Visa. (But then you've got to pay it off, remember! :] )

[Donutty]

I read somewhere on their site that stun guns aren't available to the UK. They are based somewhere in Europe (probably France).

[Anthony]

I think someone posted their full address in France a little while back.

Any ideas on the blanks required guys? (looking at the Colt GT as it's the cheapest - going to mess with it after all!)

[Aggy]

Ok, guns2u.com sell stun guns to the uk but the basic idea is that if they're confiscated by customs its your problem but they do get past. The blank firing guns are not simply 'not blocked'. The barrel is reduced, the hole at the end is approx 3mm which lets the gas escape which launches the flares. In the UK stun guns and these types of blank firing guns fall under section 5 which is banned firearms/weapons.
Guns2u.com is the sister site of tecmagex.com which is a french site and it displays an address.

[Anthony]

If the barrel is reduced to 3mm then they must be capable of taking quite a bit of pressure.

Anyone got any idea what I could use this 9mm drill bit I got here for?http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Donutty]

To anybody who is thinking of ordering from them, please 'watch what you are doing'. Don't order 20 of the cheapo ones 'cos they are going to get suspicious. I have wanted to buy one for genuine reasons for a long time, so I'd appreciate it if nobody messed it up so I couldn't.

Thanks

[Anthony]

Don't worry I'll just be ordering the one. Without ammo to avoid it being shipped with hazordous paper work, customs are bound to take more notice of a box labeled as explosive...

[Aggy]

You have to ask yourself would you ever import a real gun into the uk, I wouldn't especially to my home address and using my cc card. This is what they're classed as over here.

[Donutty]

I have to say I've not seen any warnings telling people that they are classed as Section 5 and that they are illegal in the UK. There are notices saying to use them in a proper manner, but none about the legalities involved.

I've ordered something from them, so I hope it doesn't get stopped by customs. If they do and I loose my money, I'll fight my case and say that it didn't state on the website.

Today I got an e-mail from them asking for confirmation of my address (driving license etc.). I'll let you know how it goes.

[Anthony]

It does say on their site that if stuff gets siezed by customs - tough shithttp://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/frown.gif

I dunno about giving them your driving license or similar though...

[Donutty]

Too,late - I've already sent them a scan of my license. It can't be tough shit if it gets siezed by customs. I ordered them with the knowledge that they were legal, and there was no reason that they should be siezed. If they refuse to refund me, I'm well within my rights.

Anyway, stop being pessimistic; if everything goes well, they'll be here tomorrow.

[Aggy]

I remember reading about a guy who was importing stunguns from the states he ordered about 40 over 6 months and when the police paid him a visit he was let off because the site stated that stunguns were legal in the UK!

[Anthony]

"By confirming your order, you agree to accept our Terms & Conditions"

Terms and conditions:

"In the eventuality of the users goods being seized by any government body including customs, police and law enforcement authorities, the goods will be considered by guns2u.com's carriers to have been delivered and no refunds will be given unless the goods are returned in as new condition with original packaging by the government body. In this case the user will receive a refund for the goods order, but not the shipping costs"

Anway, looking towards the bright side, being an unmarked box and no paperwork it's unlikely to get spottedhttp://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/smile.gif

What did you order?

[richl261]

ooh, oooh, did it arrive yet? did it? http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/wink.gif </10 yr old kid> heh

donutty, what'd ya order and did it arrive? i wanna order stuff from there!

[Donutty]

I ordered 2x of the Beretta 92s (Black) and the black and chrome Colt 45. Came to around £115. My credit card has a £1000 limit so I might be tempted... nah!

Pity they can't ship ammo that easily 'cos it's dirt cheap! Blank rounds are only about £5 for 50 9mm PA and 1000 .22LR are about £10. I might order some in a seperate order.

[Donutty]

Oh yeah, I ordered them on Tuesday. They haven't come yet but I'm hoping they come tomorrow (3-5 working days). I'll let you know when they do and what they're like.

[Anthony]

Thnks for the info, I'd be interested in what the construction of the 45 is like.

Tal Arms have a selection of blanks from £8-£10 plus VAT for 50
http://www5.airtime.co.uk/actinic/TAL_arms_Ltd/Online_Catalogue_Blank_Ammo_43.html
What's the difference between 9mm parabellum and 9mm / .380? Does PA stand for parabellum?

I can't see an .22s on guns2u but 1000 for £5 is damn cheap!

[Heavy Recoil]

I know 9mm parabellem is by 19.15, the soviet 9mm by 18 is self explanatory, and I know 380auto is by 17.27. 38super is by 22.86 38s&W is by 19.69 and 38 special is by 29.34 all in mm the 375 serise uses longer brass but is the same caliber standared is 32.77 and the maximum is 40.77. This info is from a speer reloaders manual

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Know the enemy, know yourself;your victory will never be endangered. SUN TZU

[Mr Cool]

Donutty: What's the news on that order? Has it arrived?

And is anyone from the UK going to be brave enough to order some rounds from www.guns2u.com? (http://www.guns2u.com?)

Edit: blank rounds obviously

[This message has been edited by Mr Cool (edited June 16, 2001).]

[Aggy]

Why get them from guns2u.com when you can get them here?

[Mr Cool]

Oh yeah, TAL etc.
I forgot about them!

[Donutty]

Well, something has arrives from Guns2U.com, or more precisely, from tecMagex. I got an invoice and a catalogue, which is unfortunately all in french!

I hope to be playing with my guns on monday. Quick Q - do customs check and/or x-ray every single item? I hope I haven't wasted my £100

[Anthony]

It'll come over in a steel shipping conatiner with the rest of the post, the most checking they probably do is walk a sniffer dog past the container like they do with lorries. Dunno what the post office will do with the individual parcels once they're unloaded from the container. Although considering the shear bulk of mail and the limited time I doubt they'd x-ray them, they might x-ray a sample of mail but only like 2%.

If they do happen to xray your parcel and open it, the box would say "Umarex balnk firing replica pistol, if they check the gun inside they'd see the muzzle is blocked (effectively) the gun would probably have "replica" stamped onto the slide or frame, so they'd probably tape the parcel up and send it on. - That's what I reckon anyway.

I'll put an order in as soon as I've payed for this new air rifle...

[Donutty]

Don't order anything 'till my stuff arives. Should come tomorrow, and if don't there's something wrong.

[Mr Cool]

Donutty: it is now the day after tomorrow!
Did it come???

[Donutty]

Ta Da! Yes they came today (tuesday). The Berettas are very nice. The Colt is good too but is obviously a 'budget' version as it has limited features. So now I have:

2x Beretta 92
1x Beretta 85
1x Colt 45
1x .22 'Snubby'
1x Beretta 'Brigadier'

So go ahead and order Anthony, everything worked out fine.

[Anthony]

Greathttp://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/smile.gif

[J]

Donutty, did you get my email?

J

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[Donutty]

Yes I did J, cheers.

Everyone: My e-mail address is now donutty_uk@hotmail.com

[frostfire]

anyone has succesfullly do the conversion/modification....wonder if the barrel can be replaced with a WWII version colt, those things are sold at army surplus stores as (a non working) antiques...

man, it cost a lot or a good replica...better buy the Elite scopes

[HMTD Factory]

A conversion will need boring out the original bore and screw-in a new firearm barrel. The bolt face of the slide will need to be replaced by a quality material insert so the bolt face don't set back due to recoil.

Stick with low pressure cartridges or the thing will be very dangerous. Look up a reloading manual for details.

I too have a 8mm blank firing desert eagle. The most suitable cartridge for conversion I think is 32 auto since the cartridge will fit in the original magazine. Though I am more interested in a .22 mag shotshell conversion.

If the gun is intended a single shot (that you don't care if the new cartridge will fit the magazine) then it can be converted to eat
a lot of things from .22 to revolver rounds.

[SawedOff8gaugeman]

So, you people who have ordered blank firers from guns2u.com, any experiences? Are there any models made of steel? Are there any specific models which could be easily(well, ...) converted for live rounds? Are the trigger/hammer mechanisms proper?

Or is there some better places to go than the guns2u?

[richl261]

I am very tempted to get a blank gun from guns2u.com, because its cheap! i dont have a credit card, so i cant order by that method, but i thought of a cheque from a bank will work...

my friend has tried to order a stun gun from there, and it hopefully will come soon http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/smile.gif

if anyone knows of another cheap place (im in UK, btw) can you post it please?

ps, the blank firers are all exact replicas, so im led to believe http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/smile.gif

[J]

I'll be interested to know if the stun gun gets through. The only place I know of off-hand in the UK that sells blank firing guns is Battle Orders, but I don't think they are particularly cheap.

J

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[richl261]

yeah battle orders is expensive, but http://www.weaponsonline.co.uk/ isnt too bad, they sell a load of stuff including blank guns...

[Mr Cool]

I'm not trying to modify a blank firer, but in the not too distant future I'll be making my .177 or maybe .22 calibre air-rifle pellet firing, blank round powered gun. It should be fun! I'll be using 8mm blanks, which when used with .177 pellets (the heaviest I can find) should give quite a bit of muzzle velocity!
I'd just like to ask your opinion on something: how much of a problem do you think pellet stability will be at these speeds? Do you think I'd be better off using a smooth bore and round projectiles? Because if it goes supersonic, then when it drops below the speed of sound the the sonic boom will hit it and this can cause it to tumble, so after a certain range accuracy will be shite, but round projectiles can't really tumble so they will be affected very little.

[Predator]

When you fire blank rounds through a air rifle barrel it's going to foul it horrendously and the build up will affect the trajectory of the round..

[Anthony]

Bottle-necking an 8mm blank to a 4.5mm barrel might make some pretty wacky chamber pressures...

I agree with Predator, the after a coupling of shots the barrel will probably (with BP blanks) be so fouled that the rifling is useless. Also the pellet would almost definitely go super sonic so accuracy would probably be very bad.

Is there anyway to bore out/unfix and replace the barrel with a larger one and use round balls?

[Mr Cool]

Obviously I'd clean the barrel, which will make it last a bit longer but I know it'd foul up pretty quick. I am seriously thinking about using round projectiles in a smooth bore now. Those foam earplugs make great wadding behind the projectile, and I can get hold of hundreds of them at absolutely no cost at all.
I think Atropine is planning to use .303 blanks and I think .177 pellets, but it might have been 0.22.

Edit: I think I've heard of 14 grain .177's somewhere, so they'll be what I use if I use that calibre. If not I might use .25" ball bearings.
Basically, if the trajectory is straight enough to get through the hole in my silencer then I'll be happy!

[This message has been edited by Mr Cool (edited August 15, 2001).]

[Predator]

Foam earplugs in a bore?

Won't they melt and add to the fouling?

[This message has been edited by Predator (edited August 15, 2001).]

[Mr Cool]

I definately wouldn't use them in a rifled bore. But I think in a smooth bore the molten plastic would be very easy to remove, and you wouldn't get much from each shot because of the very short time that it'd be experiencing high temperatures. If I think it'll be a problem, I'll line the inside with copper tubing or something that can just be replaced when it gets too fouled up.

[Anthony]

14gr .177s sound like Dae Sungs, I've not ever seen them in a gun shop but you might be able to get them mail order/real big shop.

I also remember hearing that at much over 1000fps, in an airgun the pellet would not following the rifling and just heads stright for the muzzle without twisting. I pressume the rifling rips lumps out of the pellet as it passes.

Smouthbore can be very accurate, especially with round projectiles as they don't need spin stabilisation.

[Mr Cool]

Yes, I am having a smooth bore now. I'll fire round balls or little bits of metal rod. I was thinking about the idea of shaping the front end of the rod to spin it as it goes through the air, but decided it'd be too hard to get it to work well.

[twinkle]

I posted a link of a German site who has information on a lot of types of derringers
I know that these .38 type(and bigger) of Derringers were(are) converted to .22 LR by putting in a new barrel for instance by using a 5.5 mm airgun barrel (a .22 fits very nice it and you have rifling to ) the site was:
http://www.derringer.de/index2.htm

[Victim]

The flares on the blanks are pushed onto a small point on the front of the blank, and when fired the muzzle flash ignites the flare compound (any one know what this is?), I know this as I saw my friend shooting one off only the other night. So there is no barrle with a .3mm hole, unless there is another model I havent seen.

[richl261]

i ordered a Beretta 92F Nickel from guns2u. should be here today!!

[richl261]

ta-da!!

it came! hooray!

i have to buy ammo now!, Donutty, where did u buy your ammo from?

oh, and does anyone know what the "take down switch" does?, thanx http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/smile.gif

[Anthony]

Most likely allows the gun to be stripped (probably allows the slide to be slid off over the muzzle).

[Victim]

the other day (the 31'st) I order'd,
x2 Beretta 92F - over the 85 as the 92F has n 18round mag as opposed to the 85 which has a 8round mag
x1 Glock 17
x1 Hatson Mod 40

richl261, did you get asked for ID as well?
I sent them a scan of my passport. Donutty did you send them a scan of your Driving license and passport? well, im hoping they come soon.

[richl261]

Yeah they asked for ID, but thats fine, i sent a copy of my drivers licence (Im 16, it was my provisional, the french dont know http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/smile.gif ) besides, they only want proof of address. They wont ask everytime, now im in their database.

[Donutty]

I sent them a scan of just my driving license. I have ordered from them 3 times; they only asked for ID the first time. BTW - Provisional licenses have a big red 'L' on them!!

I'll take some pics of the guns field stripped and some shots of the barrel, which is only really plugged with a 2mm thick piece of metal running down the middle. You can even unscrew the small apperture which works like a blank firing adaptor on a real weapon, allowing enough pressure/gas to build up to blow the slide back (if your take this out, the slide doesn't move and the shell isn't ejected)

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...AAGH! It Burns!...

[Donutty]

http://www.guns2u.com/products/blank_firers/reck_king_cobra.htm

Looks tasty! And legal??

In the hard-copy catalogue (in French) they offer BP for sale. Could this be ordered without suspiscion, or am I better off sticking to making my own??

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...AAGH! It Burns!...

[Aggy]

Legal in France wouldn't be in the UK. However you haven't had any trouble with the blank firers so it'll probably get through alright.

[J]

Just because something got through doesn't mean everything will. Customs are very unpredictable (if they weren't, there'd be no point in having them).

J

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[Aggy]

I know not everything gets through but he has had a few orders through without them being siezed. So have a few others plus the gun will only look like another blankfirer.

[omega1141]

Has anybody in Australia ordered from guns2u? and most importantly did u get it?

Omega

[Harry]

Has anyone in the US ordered from guns4u.com with success? Their prices are betterthan what I've seen here.

[Eliteforum]

Harry, don't you mean <a href="http://www.guns2u.com" target="_blank">Guns 2 U</a>, and not guns4u.com ? As the only thing I see for sale on guns4u, is popup ridden web space.

[frostfire]

gee, this rubber ball revolver seem very promising, too bad they don't send to US (at least, not mentioned in rates), anyone know the version of guns2U in US?

edit: (found it)http://shop.store.yahoo.com/coolgadget1/blanfirgunre.html
and many other

also what is the law concerning these guns? I know EAG & other BB/CO2 gun have red paint on the caliber tip for a reason

NV and taser in that site are jokes though, it's like paying 10 USD for a peanut

<small>[ July 08, 2002, 05:57 PM: Message edited by: frostfire ]</small>

[Eliteforum]

frostfire, they say "A fool and his money are soon parted". What you have to ask yourself is: Are you foolish enough to pay those prices?

[E7]

if you read the info page guns2u says they will ship anywhere in the world, allthough they probably charge more than the gun for shipping. as far as legality/orange tip goes, this touches on the subject

<a href="http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/fake_gun.reg.txt" target="_blank">http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/fake_gun.reg.txt</a>

[Eliteforum]

In other words "You may have nothing but a lump of wood and if that's gun shaped, don't blame us if we happen to kill you thinking that it was real" .. :rolleyes:

[duke of hazmat]

Ok, in all honesty i have a dream-machine that allows me to take pic's of things in my dreams, and if someone was to forgive my newbie-ness and tell me how to post pics here then i will supply some dream pictures of my dream berretta 92f conversion (8mm into .177)

once again, forgive my newbieness as i am aware how to do everything else but i dont know how to post pictures (via link or what) so plz dont flame me if you're annoyed. (newbies are fair game from what i see) :D

I can supply full details of my dream conversion (required a drill press, hack-saw and some JB weld, (and some airgun barrel)

[Anthony]

Since I'm personally interested :D

Go to <a href="http://www.geocities.com" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com</a> sign up for a website account. Upload your pictures and post the link to them in your post e.g. <a href="http://www.geocities.com/youraccount/arsepic1.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/youraccount/arsepic1.jpg</a>

If you need more help, email me rather than take up space here.

<small>[ September 03, 2002, 07:11 PM: Message edited by: Anthony ]</small>

[duke of hazmat]

ok, now i have my mind put together. thanks go to the all powerful nbk for not kicking me, i wont be a noob anymore (well as far as asking about the easy stuff :p )

<a href="http://www.geocities.com/dukeofhazmat/pic1.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/dukeofhazmat/pic1.jpg</a>
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/dukeofhazmat/pic2.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/dukeofhazmat/pic2.jpg</a>
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/dukeofhazmat/pic3.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/dukeofhazmat/pic3.jpg</a>

SAVE THESE TO YOUR COMPUTER AND VIEW, I WILL FIX LINK NEXT TIME IM ONLINE. SORRY FOR INCONVIENIENCE CAUSED :(

these are some pics,
what i did to create this amazing piece of kit was to obtain a beretta 92f 8mm blank gun, i used a hacksaw to chop off the barrel at the chamber block, this was hard due to the hardened steel insert. I then drilled the hack-sawed edge to the depth of the tip of the blank round. after doing this i machined a barrel from a piece of .177 barrel froma chinese air-rifle to the correct dimensions (to fit snugly in the afore mentioned chamber block) after alligning it i mixed up some
jb weld and affixed the barrel and held it in compression for 2 days (in a vice).

improvements/suggestions for the mark 2:
I didnt clear the jb weld from the chamber, as a result i sustained a failiure in the frame,
resulting in the hardened steel "ring" that holds the round being pushed forward, the case of the blank (loaded with a rabbit magnum ultra heavy .177 round) was deformed so that it was unable to be chambered. after clearing the jb weld from the chamber i retried it and it fired and chambered the next round in the magazine,

after tightening the screws on the frame (slight loosening was noted after fail) and a full mag was tried, no noticable cracks or loosening was observed after this test.

interruption of sear to convert to full auto:
i am researching into this.

laser is a cheap and nasty one btw, but i still get ok accuracy.

this is able to penetrate 2" of oak @ 10 feet, this is due to the small cross section of round

(i tried to get a picture of down the barrel but my camera lense is not in line with peep sight, i will get another pic of down the barrel to show rifling which does aid at long range accuracy as i get head shots at about 30 yards double tap)

if you have any questions plz ask !!! :D
(btw the silencer is a master piece of engineering, as it is based on the helix supressor of the stirling with a cooling gell based on a captive mercury coolant jacket, my best friend designed and started the production of it, but i had to finish the construction so i am only so-so on the exact dimensions and works of this, i can email the machinists diagrams if needed)

<small>[ September 04, 2002, 05:49 PM: Message edited by: duke of hazmat ]</small>

[a_bab]

You have to be full-filled with books otherwise we have here a so-called NBK2000 :D and he is very dangerous...

Seriously, try this: <a href="http://www.roguesci.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000032" target="_blank">http://www.roguesci.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000032</a>

...And be more carefull before posting useless info (like I did here). But I did because of you.

[leonvios]

In Coventry (England) there is a store very close to town called kitbag they sell some blank firers there and blanks no questions asked although I have not bought any they also sell hexamine tabs and all sorts of other stuff there though hope I don’t endanger the store by submitting this post.

[Eliteforum]

duke of hazmat, could you get a picture of the ammo? I'm most intrested.

[richl261]

a quick note - if you are buying from <a href="http://www.guns2u.com," target="_blank">www.guns2u.com,</a> try to buy blanks there at the same time, because the ones you can buy in england are not the right size, i had this trouble the other day.

[Anthony]

Buy blanks from them and you'll pay *serious* hazardous shipping...

Obviously, if you buy the 8mm blanks that are common here then they won't fit right (although the gun I have says it takes 8mm and 9mm), but I got some 9mm and they work fine.

[mark151]

Hey guys sorry to resurect an old post like this but I had to know, can a blank gun reciever be used in place of a real guns reciever? It seems to me that it would, as its a 1:1 scale replica.
Thanks

[nbk2000]

No, not as is.

Weak pot metal castings, deliberately weakened, etc.

You'd have to reinforce it or, if it's an exact replica that real gun parts will fit in, make a duplicate using machined steel.

[mark151]

So, say a walther p22 blank gun reciever couldnt take the abuse of a .22lr? I held a realy nice blank gun in germany meant for screwing on to an atatchment for launching flares. It was real sollid.

[nbk2000]

.22LR might be possible, as it is a fairly weak round. I'd most definately NOT try this with any high-power rounds like .40S&W, .45, or such. A .32 would likely be the most you could safely handle in a modified blank-firer, and only have extensive testing to ensure the future union of your hand with your arm. :p

[akinrog]

Sorry for bringing up an old topic.
A few days ago SWIM purchased a 9 mm blank firer. SWIM is experimenting with this blank firer gun.

Although SWIM can easily remove the slide mechanism (breech?), SWIM cannot remove the barrel which is fixed by means of a kind of pin. In addition, as NBK previously indicated the metal parts (other than barrel) is very soft (:(). SWIM can simply make dents on the metal parts by hitting with the handle of the power checker screwdriver.
SWIM shall attach a photo of the partly disassembled gun (although poor quality), maybe some one may identify that pins and give a hint how to remove them.

[THAT Dude]

http://www.modelguns.co.uk/index.htm sell blank firing(odd cap) guns.
In the revolvers setion you can see down the barrel of the Smith & Wesson Schofield Cavalry, note that its only blocked by a thin bar. "replicas functions and fieldstrips exactly like the real thing." So if you were to change the cylinder with one from a parts gun you may get a real gun.

[bjr]

my appoligies for dragging up an old post, did anyone actually convert a blank firer?

[mike-hunt]

As an Australian and unable to legally buy firearms I have been very interested in homemade weapons have read Lutes 9 mm plans although not much use when 9 mm rounds are almost impossible to get your hands on here. was considering making .22 smg from Bill Holmes plans but had to abandon that to as barrel blanks and magazines are needed for this

I have however come across a supplier of replica and blank firing pistols in Australia
Http://www.wellingtonsurplus.com.au/ I purchased a colt python .45 replica and blank fierier have read that they were being banned as it is possible to convert them to live firing and decided to check this out .the blank fierier looks good and it would be easy enough to drill out the barrel and magazine chambers. It doesn't look to be built solid enough to use as a pistol although I am shore parts will come in handy for future projects .

I was how ever able to make alterations to the replica. In theory it should fire ,I haven't the balls or spare ammo to test fire. the gun itself is constructed from a very solid steel I blunted several new drill bits .there are several features of the replica that prevent it firing live rounds here is how I overcome them.

1- the magazine chambers don't fit the ammo. these I drilled out with a hand drill. several mm also had to be ground from the rear of the magazine to although clearance when loaded this was done very carefully so to not damage the star shaped center that rotates the mag.

2 -the barrel. the barrel is only attached to the frame by being fitted over a spike molded onto the frame once the frame is drilled there is nothing to hold the barrel on the ideal fix is a genuine barrel available online but difficult to get through customs then the frame con be threaded to except the barrel . I however chose to attach the barrel with j-b weld an adhesive clamed to be as strong as a weld although I don't believe that and if the gun fails it will most likely be here .the barrel is not riffled although being a hand gun it shouldn't be an issue

3 firing pin - the firing pin is the blunt end removed from a drill bit . Part of a pen spring was glued in place and the frame drilled so the pin lines up with the primer. The hole in the frame is big enough to hold the spring but not let it slip through .test firing with brass dummy rounds marked the brass close enough to the center to lead me to believe live firing possible

The gun was finished by removing the black paint and applying a shop bought bluing kit walnut grips were also added to replace the plastic ones.
The result was a very real looking pistol . I don't think that it would be good for more than 2 or 3 shots and don't recommend any one fires . It is however ideal for what I want a scary looking gun that probably will never need to be used but in an emergency should fire at least one shot.

I welcome any criticism. As to why this wont work and ideas for improvements as I hope to prefect this into something more reliable .

I hope to build a single shot 12 gage pistol using the trigger and firing pin from the replica and Lutes plans for inspiration will post plans if it works out.

links to photos of gun
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj205/fredflintstoned/Pic_1228_105.jpg

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj205/fredflintstoned/Pic_1228_104.jpg

[shrub]

Would it be possible to convert the gun mentioned above to
fire steel bbs (4.5mm) or .117 air rifle pellets using the blank rounds. Would this be safe to use for prolonged use?

[iHME]

It has been successfully done.

Construction of the pistol:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=O3OVDSycsx8

Firing the pistol:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kbj4UPBrV64

I think that I have all ready posted this on a different thread.

[shrub]

I was thinking more along the lines of putting bbs into each chamber of the cylinder. Of course you would need some way of holding them in place.
Mike-Hunt did you ever get to test your creation? I also live near wellington surplus

[Latindude_002]

Hello, new guy here. I'm also interested in using cartridges with extra kick in brococks, alongside the air ones. I'm the US, so no issues with the ban.

When it comes to primers, I found a company that makes primer powered cartridges for use in centrefires. I will possibly have some made that use the 209 shotgun primer.
If I'm not mistaken, another fellow who used these primers reported 10ft/lb on the revolver, which is about a 50% power increase.

Osis creation is brilliant, however I have concerns about it. A .22 short is said to have a diameter of .223 (5.7mm), while airguns are actually .220 (5.5mm) if I am not mistaken. Isn't the wider bullet harming the barrel?

[mike-hunt]

Re: replica pistol conversion
I have not fired the replica due to the fact I could only get six 38 cal rounds .
I would feel a lot safer firing 22's through the pistol and I am searching for an insert that allows a 22, to be fired through a 38 revolver this would be ideal as this caliber is easier to find in Australia for those of us who don't qualify for a shooters license.

I have currently got on order a conversion for a flare gun which allows the firing of 38 cal
round from a 25 mm flare pistol and are saving the 38 rounds for use in this .
Flare gun inserts at http://www.captainforhire.com/products.htm
I have a solid looking German made 25 mm flare gun I had no problem finding one online and they are legal to import into Australia . The inserts are properly illegal to import though I don't anticipate any trouble. As being aluminum and not resembling any gun part I know of it should slip through an x-ray unnoticed. I will post an update if they arrive safely.

[mike-hunt]

Shrub
To fire bb from a blank pistol I think a sabot would work a peace of dense foam like surf bord foam cut to fit the chamber and the bb's pushed into this. As to the effect on the pistol or safety I have no idea.

[shrub]

What would be the best blank firer to buy from wellingtonsurplus.com to convert to .22 the colt python fires 9mm blanks would the .22 bullets fit in the magazine? Also what could be used for a replacement barrel?

[shrub]

has anyone heard of (or ordered from) http://www.modelguns-worldwide.com/
they say there guns fire, field strip exactly like the real thing.

[rifter]

What would be the best blank firer to buy from wellingtonsurplus.com to convert to .22 the colt python fires 9mm blanks would the .22 bullets fit in the magazine? Also what could be used for a replacement barrel?

The revolvers would be easier to convert than the semi-automatics, I'd imagine. I've never tried it. You could insert a piece of 6mm ID, 9mm OD (1.5mm wall) pipe into the chambers to accomodate a .22 round, perhaps? You may have to drill into the chamber with a 9mm bit if 9mm blank chambers aren't straight wall.

[Snake_Eyes]

It's possible to do with a cap gun and a starter pistol. I got these pictures from the book "Zips, Pipes, and Pens" but sadly it doesn't show you how to make them.

http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/6334/italyqn2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/5528/starteroz8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[paul88]

How about drilling out the chambers of the revolvers and inserting .22 cal barrel liners? The strength from the chamber already there with the strong barrel liner should work fine I would imagine.

[Snake_Eyes]

I was looking at this book I have, "Zips, Pipes, And Pens - Arsenal of Improvised Weapons" and i print screened these pictures for everyone to see. Looks like a cap gun did work in this case.

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/2089/starterqm3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/2512/italyod7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Charles Owlen Picket]

A word of warning on this. ANYONE who has hammered a metal of non-crystal aligned matrix will notice that after a time the metal starts to crack. While a softer metal will stand up to impact force for several blows, it begins micro structural cracks that lengthen & widen over time.

While a cylinder or barrel will stand impact for one or several blows it should not be misconstrued to be impervious to repeated firings. That is the whole purpose of x-ray photography examination in firearm's firms R & D labs.

It IS true that the shorter the barrel, the less the pressure built up within, the cylinder is a primary receptacle of pressure & every effort should be made to understand the nature of that pressure within. A blank gun was NEVER designed to withstand the pressures built up to propel a bullet.

That cylinder was NOT designed through milling methods specific to strengthening the material from the inside out. It was merely cut to LOOK like a revolver cylinder.

[paul88]

I would hope that the purpose of making something like this was to use for project purposes or simply to use it and throw it away. As you said Charles, they are not intended for bullets! I would MAYBE fire 12 rounds through it then toss it.

[shrub]

would a replica gun ie non blank firing gun work the same way

[Hirudinea]

It seems that any converted blank firer should be treated like the old "Liberator" pistol, used as a simple, expedient weapon to get a real gun from someone else.

[paul88]

I agree Hirudinea, Also I dont think a replica gun would work either because they, like blank firers are made cheaply, nothing else..

[paul88]

My friend sent me a pic of his .22 blank converted to fire live rounds.
Im not sure what blank revolver he used but he said its an older model. The cylinder accepts .22 shorts but he uses .22lr's by trimming the tips of the .22lr's to fit in the chamber. Also he got rid of the shitty barrel that came with the gun and welded a .22 barrel blank in its place (rifled).
He says he has indeed fired 100+ rounds through it but checks carefully after every few shots for cracks and damage.

Link to the revolver (its the little black one)
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w135/ns_soldier/gunzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.jpg

[spetsnaz08]

How did he weld it inside of it? Do you apply the weld around the barrel and then place it in?
Do you put a smaller tube inside the barrel or dismount the one already in place then welt it to the inside of the gun?
Sorry for the question havent got a clue about guns.

[paul88]

Well the barrel liner is made to be put inside of a barrel to refurbish the gun, for like say the rifling is fucked up, they would put in a barrel liner. I believe that he welded the barrel in from the outside along with the inside end ( barrel end closest to the cylinder) The barrel does not have to be that thick because the cylinder doesnt take all the explosive pressure.
The previous "barrel" was cut off and drilled out for the barrel liner to be accepted.

[shrub]

Where does the pressure go in a real pistol from shooting a live round.. I would think it would be more than just changing the barrel

[paul88]

do you mean a revolver or pistol? in a revolver some pressure escapes through the space between the cylinder but for the most part it all goes forward, thus you have a projectile.
pistols work the same way but some pressure is used to blow the slide back and thus reloading the gun

[shrub]

I've heard that the older blank guns are easier to convert, would this be the same for cap guns I found a nice vintage one made out of cast iron.

[paul88]

Ive thought of the same as well, for .22LR i think it would be suitable but I have not worked with it as of yet.
Im thinking the cylinder would be just a bit too brittle unless it was steel and not that shitty kind.
Do you happen to have one to mess with? If you do ill try to help

[Aikidokaguy]

Some of the main issues with converting any of these blank guns is pressure related obviously. Pressure exerts in all directions, with the weak link being the bullet.

Another issue with converting is in the action of these guns. They are all straight blowback pistols and as such energy is not being deferred in any way to other parts of the action like in a tilting barrel pistol. With a tilting barrel design, the slide brings back the barrel(which thusly adds some mass to counter the recoil) and then the barrel gets dragged downwards slightly so as to disengage with the locking lug on the slide.

This type of tilting action delays the opening of the action just enough to allow pressures to subside before the breech is opened up. If the breech opens too early then a casing rupture will be the result due to high pressures.

Recoil springs in tilting designs are also much stronger than these blank guns. Keep in mind too that some of the rearward recoil is taken up by the hammer in blank guns...which is the same with actual pistols as well.

So to sum up, the issues you would have in a conversion to larger higher pressure cartridges would include stronger materials(seamless steel barrels, and potential steel inserts in the slide to defer energy without breaking the slide), stronger recoil springs, and energy deferral methods incorporated in the design of the action.

If a straight blowback-only design was going to be used, then even with stronger materials added I still wouldn't use any cartridge stronger than 32 ACP(7.65mm Browning) or 380 ACP(9mm Browning)...and this would still require a proper steel barrel replacement, and heavier recoil spring.

Also...one other option is possible...yet volatile. The Hilti blanks use a fast burning powder in them, which could be collected for use in slightly larger cartridges. When I say volatile though I mean it...faster burning powders increase pressures dramatically quicker than slower burning powders...and as such could lead to not just a casing rupture but also a catastrophic failure of a barrel wall or slide's breech face.

Experiment safely...always

[Latindude_002]

Hey guys, do any of you know how much of a replica the Brocock Para (the PPK) was?

I've found that brocock revolvers like the Single action army are almost perfect copies of their real counterparts, so much so that you can swap some parts with authentic ones, exept for the barrel.

I am semi auto illiterate, but is it plausible to swap the Brocock PPK's parts with authentic ones, thereby turning it into a proper shooter?

[Aikidokaguy]

The problem will come down to the frame in many cases. The recoil energies are much greater in a pistol like the PPK in comparison to the the blank cartridges they are intended to fire in said blank guns.

Without reinforcement something is going to break.

Fingers beware

[tomu]

As long as low powered cartridges like .22, .25 ACP, .32 ACP or te like are you used the zinc alloy frames will stand the stress. Anyway the frame will just crack and not blow up, so fingers are pretty save.

Problems arise if the frame is also intentionally weakend by break points like in most german blank fire guns.

These guns are almost impossible to convert to life firing. The connection of the barrel to the frame is so feably that the barrel will just break off the frame if someone tries to bore it out.

[Setharier]

Last year I turned one of my blankers to fire live 9mmPB rounds. Model was an Umarex 1911. I drilled the old cast iron barrel nearly away, leaving only some 1-2mm of stuff on the sides and then fitted in a self made customed steel pipe with hammer. I have fired some 20 rounds through it and it works quite well; I bought an real 1911 spring to ensure zinc slide durability for a little longer. Still there is visible some crancks and I'm pretty sure slide will give up in couple of dozens of rounds. Magazine is a little more tricky one, and since I found no way to increase its length, I havent hand much interest about the whole gun; I've got a real, legal 9mm then. Nowadays the pistol is, I think, somewhere under the warehouse stuff.

[Latindude_002]

Well my idea was more in the line of replacing barrel and slide assembly with that of an original gun, which can be bought online. But I am very uninformed on that topic, so there may be a ton of reasons why it wouldn't work.

[paul88]

I think it may work Latindude im not quite sure.
I suggest you just try it, let us know if it will work.

[bene]

Hi folks,


this is now my first post:)
A few days ago, I found an interessting link about blank gun conversion : http://www.europarl.europa.eu/hearings/20061004/imco/savill_en.pdf

it's nearly an instruction how to turn a blank gun into a real gun. thanks to the police:D


Regards, Bene

[paul88]

Great link
Lots of good pictures.
Thanks.

[ex1ge]

Very nice PDF there.

On the note of PFC guns (the ones from modelguncollector), these guns operate by the hammer pushing the cartridge forwards into the firing pin, which is located at the end of the breech, facing backwards.

This would hence make them extremely difficult to convert, and a successful conversion that would allow it to chamber and operate live ammunition would likely result in an almighty explosion, as most are made from ABS plastic, and the "full metal" versions are made of pot metal unsuitable to withstand any sort of live ammunition.

The strains set on the slide and frame are more akin to an airsoft gun then a real firearm.

[bene]

instead of conversion of a blank gun and breaking existing laws (very very bad)...take a look at the following link
http://rapidshare.com/files/122085117/GHETTOBLASTER.rar.html

I guess the images will explain everything.

pw=roguesci

[paul88]

Do any of you happen to have one of those semi auto blank firers?
If so would it be any trouble to send me the pictures of the slide taken off? I have an idea for converting them to fire WITHOUT blowing up.
Thank you