Frag grenade.

[DBSP]

I got a nice idea today when I saw some large rings(see the foto) my brother had found. They weigh 32g each and meassure 6mm in height, 37mm in with and with an internal with of 21mm. When I spotted them they where piled up on each other and thats when I got the idea to use them as frag grenades. If you pile up 10 of them you've got 320g of steel shrapnel and asuming that they get divided into 3 pieces in the explosion you have 30 pieces weighting about 10g each, that would shurely do some damage against many thinkable targets.

The internal volume is about 19 cc(with 10 rings). If using a good explosive you could get 28g of explosive into the grenade asuming an explosive density of 1,5 g/cc.

<a href="http://w1.478.telia.com/~u47804009/E&W/frag_grenade.jpg" target="_blank">-->Frag Grenade<--</a>

What do you think?

[TariqMujahid]

Great idea. How much do these rings cost, what are they used for, and where did your brother find them?
The rings piled together, I'm assuming should mimic a pipebomb; in which pressure is built up until the container bursts. In this case, when the container bursts, it spread fragments of the steel rings. But this might not work, because the bottom and top are open...and explosions take the path of least resistance. Therefore, you'd probably want to use a high explosive. This would probably be better since it would give the fragments more force behind them.
Pardon my bad terminology, I don't keep up with explosives much =).

[Mick]

er..there called washers.
you put them underneath nuts (on a bolt).

pretty common things.
then problem with washers are 99.9% of the time the washer will fly side on creating as much resistance as possible - thus it will lose most of its enrgy before it gets to its target.
you would do better using small clouts, or chip board screws.
simply put a whole shit load of them in a bag(plenty more then 320g), then put your container of desired explosive in with them and tape the whole lot up.
or if you had the money you could just go buy a box of 3 inch nails(1000 - 2000 nails, whieghs around 20kgs) and put 500g of APAN in the middle.

[Microtek]

That would make a rather large grenade Mick. You wouldn't be able to throw it very far. Also, when employed in the manner suggested (using HE filler), the rings would be more likely to divide into several fragments than to fly in any direction intact. Even if the fragments did lose energy fast that would not be such a bad thing as the danger area would be more controllable.

[xoo1246]

They would be better for a claymore, but not ideal at all.
I had a dream once, with 200 grams of AN/NM/AL and 63 nails(claymore). I used a sheet as a target, I can't recall it by I think 11 hit from a distance of 10-15 meters. Some did hit trees, but didn't pentrate very far. They tend to hit from the side(as would the rings), thus giving a larger area of resistance, second, they are light.
Nails could be used agains humans but I would use steel balls if the target were a vehicle.

<small>[ May 26, 2002, 10:37 AM: Message edited by: xoo1246 ]</small>

[DBSP]

One thing you could do to improve it would be to weld them together(not completely, just so that they keep together) and seal the ends and then use a saw to make lines where they will brake when pressure is applied. I'll try one of these in a few days.

Off topic, I've had some real fun today and detonated some larger things. I've got some very nice pics and some audio for you, I'll put it up tomorrow in cap sensitive AN mixtures, so keep your eyes open guys :p ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

[Spudgunner]

How far is it you would have to saw through? I remember reading for real frags, the only part that matters as to the lines in the metal is on the inside, the outside is merely so it doesn't slip. I think trying four cuts (in a + shape) cut with a hacksaw about halfway through the metal would work probably. I still like NBK's post quite a while back (January 2001) found <a href="http://odin.prohosting.com/~forumtwo/jan01/20011009-4-000070.html" target="_blank">here</a> . Unfortunatly, the pics are not there, and the pics were the best part of it. I remember when I first read it (I can't believe I remember reading a topic a year and a half ago) I was stunned at how simple, yet effective, of an idea it was. Anyway, take a look at that link, it is a really good idea.

Spud

[S. Toppholzer]

An excellent case for a frag grenade would be the syphon case one may find underneath a washbasin.

[ShotgunsAreFun]

Moron.

<small>[ June 05, 2002, 10:27 PM: Message edited by: nbk2000 ]</small>

[S. Toppholzer]

fine. :rolleyes:
so now that I know you think I'm a moron would you please kindly also explain why you think so? Please enlighten me with your wisdom.

[kingspaz]

S. Toppholzer,
he is the moron! his post has been edited my nbk. i suspect with a name like that he probably posted some crap about sparklers in bottles making great frag grenades.

[S. Toppholzer]

&lt;dissapointment&gt;oh sh*t. I was hoping to battle this guy.&lt;/dissapointment&gt;
&lt;relief&gt;hey, thanks kingspaz!&lt;/relief&gt; :D

[ShotgunsAreFun]

Oh yay, sparklers in bottles.
I posted some crap about some form of high explosive in a metal pen. Could probaly pass an x-ray test but would have a very small kill radius.
I'll crawl back into my hole now. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Please do. NBK

<small>[ June 08, 2002, 02:13 AM: Message edited by: nbk2000 ]</small>

[inferno]

I know the forum isnt Pipe Bombs 'r' Us, but an improvised frag grenade is really just a pipe bomb. A really damn simple way would be to get a pipe (Gee this reminds me of all the cookbook crap, "Ingredients for bomb: Pipe, end caps, black powder") or actually an aluminium can even? Thin shrapnel, but still very jagged and sharp. Either make a strong cap and surround it with nails and bolts etc, and the cap (a few grams of AP/hmtd and PETN would be pretty powerful for this?) should blow the nails etc outwards, so even if the shockwave didnt shatter the can, the nails and bolts etc would. Kewl, but effective im sure.

Or, with the washers you have above, cut lines up and down them pretty far through, and put some HE filler inside them. They will break on the cuts sending kinda tile-shaped shrapnel out, hopefully on the thin side, so thered be less resistance = more speed and distance. It would also be blunter shrapnel, so would be more like cutting someone with a blunt knife than with a sharp blade

But really, apart from doing frag grenades near objects to see what damage they do, i dont think anyone here is going to actually use one for practical uses, so detonating HE's would be just as fun and probably less dangerous
(Imagine 5g of AP going off in your hand, then imagine 5g of ap going off in your hand in a can/pipe surrounded by small metallic objects!)

<small>[ June 14, 2002, 07:23 AM: Message edited by: inferno ]</small>

[NoltaiR]

A pipe would fragment into a few lethal peices, but what would make it much more reliable is if you could etch into the pipe with some sort of saw so that there are lines of metal that are not as thick as the rest of the casing. You would make the case look like a grid fasion with engraved lines going horizontally and vertically every centimeter or so. This is what it might look like:
&lt;pre&gt;

/===\/======\/======\/======\/===\
|===::======::======::======::===|
|===::======::======::======::===|&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;X
|===::======::======::======::===|
\===/\======/\======/\======/\===/

<small>[ June 15, 2002, 12:18 AM: Message edited by: NoltaiR ]</small>

[inferno]

Noltair, thats pretty much what i meant. With the rings pictured at the top of this topic, if with a hacksaw you could cut the insides with deep grooves, each ring would shatter into say 8 pieces of shrapnel, very devastating to a human, though i HOPE noone on this forum would use them for that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

heres what i mean:
<a href="http://www.angelfire.com/ia/antipokemon/frag.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.angelfire.com/ia/antipokemon/frag.jpg</a>
(have to copy and paste)

Note the grooves are on the insides Herr Reichsführer. HEIL HITLER *hand salute in the air* hehehe sorry.

I see NBK did work when the forum was down before...he gave himself an avatar! lol

<small>[ June 15, 2002, 06:58 AM: Message edited by: inferno ]</small>

[nbk2000]

External grooves have no effect on fragmentation. That's why all modern grenades use pre-fragmented bodies of either wire, stamped metal, or shot.

And regular water pipe is about the worst thing you can use for a grenade. It's heavy, clunky, and doesn't break into effective fragments.

Now, if you used a PVC pipe as an explosives casing with a removable sleeve containing steel shot fragments, then you'd have something. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />