H2O2 from OxyClean?

[FadeToBlackened]

I believe there was a post some time back about oxyclean, but if i remember right, it was deemed not very useful. I found this while surfing www.H2O2.com. (http://www.H2O2.com.):

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Sodium percarbonate (or sodium carbonate peroxyhydrate) is a non-hazardous granular product developed as an alternative to perborate bleaches in household detergents. When dissolved into water, its releases H2O2 and soda ash (sodium carbonate).


2Na2CO3 . 3H2O2 ---> 2Na2CO3 + 3H2O2
The pH of the resulting solution is typically alkaline, which activates the H2O2 for bleaching. The dry powder contains about 30% w/w H2O2 and finds specialty use as a wood brightener and general cleaning aid. Check with a local supplier to industrial laundries for sourcing.
</font>

OxyClean contains this percarbonate (potassium percarbonate, actually, and maybe sodium percarbonate as well. I cant remember) as do some color-safe powdered bleaches.

Now this is just an idea, but it says it has about 30% w/w of H2O2, so would it be possible to maybe: make a saturated (or supersaturated maybe?) solution of the percarbonate, and react it with some acid to form a less soluble (or maybe insoluble altogether?) compound than Na2CO3, and then aid precipitation by cooling it down a lot, then filtering. Maybe even if its possible doing an extraction with solvents to further separate them (not sure about that.)

If it worked you could get a reasonable purity high conc. H2O2. If you were making AP or HTMD with it though, you'd need to add more acid, since any Na2CO3 would neutralize it.

Maybe HCl could be used since it would form NaCl which is neither acid nor base, and anything that couldnt be separated would possibly be less affected by it.


[This message has been edited by FadeToBlackened (edited July 30, 2001).]

[FadeToBlackened]

Does anyone think this remotely possible? or would the acid maybe have some interaction with the H2O2?

[Fingerless]

I remember seeing on a bottle of some type of natural, organic cleaner once as using H202 as the main active ingredient, something around 50% concentration....
I was wondering. this new Super Oxy-clean substance sold for cleaning at wal mart and such is touted is being organic, but it has no ingredients on it, does it contain H202 as its main active ingredient as well? It seems like it very well could be, anyone know for sure? I am POSITIVE i saw a bottle if some type of "organic" cleaner with a very high concentration of H202, however. Anyone? THanks.

[FadeToBlackened]

I made a post like this a while back. It is potassium percarbonate (potassium carbonate peroxyhydrate) which forms potassium carbonate and H2O2 on contact with water. I dont know if it could be used for AP type reactions since the solution obtained is alkaline, which would neutralize the acid..my post was H2O2 from OxyClean? in misc

[Fingerless]

I'll look at your post, I didn't realize anyone posted something on it. What is the pH of normal H202? Just guessing, I think its slightly basic, whats the pH of oxy clean? You could just use more acid so there isnt enough base to neutralize it all.

[Fingerless]

Hmmm, I couldn't find your post anywhere. Do you happen to have the link? Also, when mixed with water does that stuff from a true homogenous mixture or is it just suspended and will settle out? I'm guessing its homogenous(I think this is the right term, its been a while) Does anyone know how much H202 it forms when mixed with water? (Obviously it matters how much water you have, but any examples would be much appreciated.) Thanks guys.

[Fingerless]

Anybody? Maybe a type of buffer could be mixed with the Oxyclean? I think I'll try it anyways.

[FadeToBlackened]

Its somewhere in misc.. im too lazy to look for it. heres a link for ya though, www.h2o2.com (http://www.h2o2.com) thats where i learned about it.. i think it is 30%H2O2 by weight..

[Kdogg]

Im very tempted to try it, using more acid as Fingerless has mentioned.

------------------
Monkeyman

[s25]

In Ireland we have a stain remover called Vanish stain remover you can buy it in 1 litre bottles for about 1.20 the conc is 5-15 percent now we can only get six percent from a chemist and it is about 1 euro for a 100mls.I have made AP successfully with this.

[Real_Wrestler]

Fingerless:

-I use to think H2O2 was basic myself. I then did some research on the internet and found a great site. It is acidic, and it's PH depends on the concentration.


Here is the link:
http://www.h2o2.com/intro/faq.html#15

[vulture]

"Sodium percarbonate" = 2Na2CO3·3H2O2

The acidity of H2O2 is neglegible compared to the alkalinity of Na2CO3.

These tablets usually contain a great deal of crap, because starch is cheaper than the active ingredient....

EDIT: Because of the alkalinity of Na2CO3, the obtained H2O2 solutions is very unstable and should be used ASAP and kept absolutely clean, that is allow no dust or other crap to enter.

[The_Rsert]

A few weeks ago I have heard that 2l 10% pure percarbonate solotion, 300ml 20% HCL and 300ml or less Aceton will form after 4 days about 70g pure DPPP (after recrystallising).

Then I have mixed 1l bleach ("Ace - Milde Bleiche", contains 5-15% oxygen based bleach) with 200ml Aceton and 250ml 24%HCL in a 5l canister.
After 3-4 Days i had 36.8g (after recrystallising) of a white explosive powder with a very low density. Maybe it's pure DPPP!

[Boomer]

Apart from the fact that this appears twice here, you already posted it in TWO other threads. :mad:
Even though you may be exited about the discovery, please stop wasting my lunch break, it is hard enough to read through all new explosive posts in 30 minutes!

Thank you

[FUTI]

Can anyone confirm the info about percarbonate being the main ingreedient of vanish or oxyclean? I always know that the so called "oxygen power" trash is just percarbonate or perborate so it was 50/50 to make correct choice.

[The_Rsert]

To "Boomer": I'm sorry, I will never do this again....
To "FUTI": Oxygen powders like vanish does contain usually 20% sodium percarbonate, 75% sodium carbonate and 5% tensides.
And usually only very expensive bleach additive does contain pure percarbonate or perborates.

[The_Rsert]

Is it possible to extract the H2O2 with a comercial solvent?
Because you can extract for example the H2O2 from the urea peroxide complex with acetone. (The waterfree H2O2/acetone mix is very dangerous and explosive)

[hereno]

Is it possible to extract the H2O2 with a comercial solvent?


Check sciencemadness - http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=1325&page=2

A number of extraction techniques are mentioned. Specifically using ether to extract 100% H2O2, which has been done by a member, and confirmed safe. An unconfirmed idea is the use of silica gel to extract the water from the mix, leaving peroxide. Its mentioned that simple evaporating in rotovap takes peroxide concentrations to 70+%. Salting the peroxide out with common salts is also mentioned.