Anthony
March 5th, 2003, 05:51 PM
Detonator
Frequent Poster
Posts: 132
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted February 01, 2001 03:16 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When i can't buy AN, i do it :
NH4HCO3+HNO3
It's available widly and very cheap...1KG is about 2$
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 194
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted February 01, 2001 06:57 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But what about the nitric acid ? If you can get decent concentrations ( 65% or more ) and H2SO4 95%, you could be making NG or EGDN and shouldn't waste time on AN.
In fact almost any HE is better than AN in its pure form, only ANNM will make it worth your while, so the question is: Can you get nitromethane? well can you.. punk? ( no offense )
Detonator
Frequent Poster
Posts: 132
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted February 01, 2001 08:34 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mmm who would like to make NG??? someone wants to die?
You can make alot of AN cheaply...it'snt dangerous...
BTW you can make RDX or Picric Acid without using NA.
And use a better language (punk)!!
no_name_available
A new voice
Posts: 25
From: germany (?)
Registered: JAN 2001
posted February 01, 2001 04:33 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1st.: why do you make it with NH4HCO3 ? just use household common ammonia: NH3 + HNO3 -> NH4NO3
2nd.: why to make it and not to buy it as fertilizer ? i made some by pouring ammonia 30% to 65% HNO3 - it take a lot of time to drop it slowly in, and i had it to do with my gasmask because of the ammonia gas was getting free by the heat of the nitration. my PH testing paper was getting blue just by liing open in the air !
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted February 01, 2001 05:56 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
detonator: nitro is less sensitive than AP .
------------------
Explosives Archive
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1474
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 01, 2001 07:08 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
well that may be true for commercial stuff, but homemade NG is dangerousl beacuse it can poision you with vapors, drip off unnnoticed and go boom! and in production it makes nasty fumes!
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted February 01, 2001 08:20 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
well, thats easy. Use a fume hood, or fume absorber, and use gloves and a mask when messin witth it. It sensitivity is less than ap if properly washed
------------------
Explosives Archive
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 194
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted February 02, 2001 03:57 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have just begun using NG in my experiments.
I don't make a lot of it at one time, at least not until I have tested it thoroughly, but until now my results are promising.
While trying to make a good plastique from HMTD or AP, I constructed a drop-hammer to test the impact sensitivity. As I was working with primary explosives I only made it with a 35 cm drop and a 335 gram hammer, however, I used my lathe to cut the impacting surface of the hammer to micrometer precision. The hammer is made from ordinary medium grade steel, while the anvil is a hardened steel plate and the hammer is cut in such a way that it impacts on exactly 1 square centimeter. This setup will detonate AP with as little as a 10 cm
drop, HMTD a little more, but in 20 tries from 35 cm, I was unable to set off NG. With the NG, I had to use a manual hammer and hit it with considerable force lying on an anvil. In another test, I used epoxy-putty to make a small "bowl" on a board ( to test the breaching power ). This bowl could hold maybe 0.5 cc, and using this little NG, I figured I'd only use a small cap, so the cap explosion wouldn't obscure the effect of the NG. In the end I used a coloumn of AP 2mm in diameter and 9mm long, pressed with about 40 lbs ( thats about 8000 psi ).
No detonation.
I made several other tests both with NG and EGDN ( and I'm still making tests ), and at this point, I think NG is really much safer than AP or HMTD. EGDN is somewhat more stable than NG, but NG is stable enough if you are used to the safety precautions that go with AP.
Hint: NG mixes with nitromethane. The addition of NM makes it more stable, and with a mixture of 8.2% NM and 91.8% NG you have a perfect oxygen balance....
blackadder
Frequent Poster
Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 02, 2001 08:38 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When NH4N03 is mixed with H20, an endothermic reaction takes place, what is the resulting chemical and how would one extract the NH4N03 from it?
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 02, 2001 09:19 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Simply by heating the solution to 100C and allowing the water to come out. Then cool down in an enclosed vessel with some dessicant (in another recipient) like CaCl2 or anhydrous CuSO4 or MgSO4. add a little ethanol to ensure taking all the water away.
It should cristallise as white clouds on the walls. take them en put them in the sun on a black surface or in an open oven at medium temp!
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o )"
blackadder
Frequent Poster
Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 02, 2001 11:57 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks, PHILOU.
I'm trying to extract all of the NH4NO3 out of those used instant cold packs that I have lying around.
They work by puncturing a bag of NH4NO3, which is inside a bag of water, the two substances mix, the reaction takes place, and the water becomes cold.
[This message has been edited by blackadder (edited February 02, 2001).]
Detonator
Frequent Poster
Posts: 132
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted February 03, 2001 08:43 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PHILLO I have problems getting all the water out from AN, any suggestions?
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 03, 2001 11:49 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No reaction takes place when you dissolve AN in water. It's a minor point, but I thought I'd point it out anyway.
EGDN is more stable than NG at slighlty elevated temperatures, so I make it instead of NG if I ever need a liquid explosive. Mix it with acetone, 75% EGDN : 25% acetone to make it less sensitive.
To dry AN, just powder it and put it in an oven at 105*C for a few hours, and store it in an airtight container.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 03, 2001 11:52 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
P.S. - don't bother making AN. If you look around, you're bound to find an agricultural supplier that will sell you 55lb for about $40. I can get 55lb for £27.50. Not a bad price.
Frequent Poster
Posts: 132
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted February 01, 2001 03:16 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When i can't buy AN, i do it :
NH4HCO3+HNO3
It's available widly and very cheap...1KG is about 2$
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 194
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted February 01, 2001 06:57 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But what about the nitric acid ? If you can get decent concentrations ( 65% or more ) and H2SO4 95%, you could be making NG or EGDN and shouldn't waste time on AN.
In fact almost any HE is better than AN in its pure form, only ANNM will make it worth your while, so the question is: Can you get nitromethane? well can you.. punk? ( no offense )
Detonator
Frequent Poster
Posts: 132
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted February 01, 2001 08:34 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mmm who would like to make NG??? someone wants to die?
You can make alot of AN cheaply...it'snt dangerous...
BTW you can make RDX or Picric Acid without using NA.
And use a better language (punk)!!
no_name_available
A new voice
Posts: 25
From: germany (?)
Registered: JAN 2001
posted February 01, 2001 04:33 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1st.: why do you make it with NH4HCO3 ? just use household common ammonia: NH3 + HNO3 -> NH4NO3
2nd.: why to make it and not to buy it as fertilizer ? i made some by pouring ammonia 30% to 65% HNO3 - it take a lot of time to drop it slowly in, and i had it to do with my gasmask because of the ammonia gas was getting free by the heat of the nitration. my PH testing paper was getting blue just by liing open in the air !
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted February 01, 2001 05:56 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
detonator: nitro is less sensitive than AP .
------------------
Explosives Archive
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1474
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 01, 2001 07:08 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
well that may be true for commercial stuff, but homemade NG is dangerousl beacuse it can poision you with vapors, drip off unnnoticed and go boom! and in production it makes nasty fumes!
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted February 01, 2001 08:20 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
well, thats easy. Use a fume hood, or fume absorber, and use gloves and a mask when messin witth it. It sensitivity is less than ap if properly washed
------------------
Explosives Archive
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 194
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted February 02, 2001 03:57 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have just begun using NG in my experiments.
I don't make a lot of it at one time, at least not until I have tested it thoroughly, but until now my results are promising.
While trying to make a good plastique from HMTD or AP, I constructed a drop-hammer to test the impact sensitivity. As I was working with primary explosives I only made it with a 35 cm drop and a 335 gram hammer, however, I used my lathe to cut the impacting surface of the hammer to micrometer precision. The hammer is made from ordinary medium grade steel, while the anvil is a hardened steel plate and the hammer is cut in such a way that it impacts on exactly 1 square centimeter. This setup will detonate AP with as little as a 10 cm
drop, HMTD a little more, but in 20 tries from 35 cm, I was unable to set off NG. With the NG, I had to use a manual hammer and hit it with considerable force lying on an anvil. In another test, I used epoxy-putty to make a small "bowl" on a board ( to test the breaching power ). This bowl could hold maybe 0.5 cc, and using this little NG, I figured I'd only use a small cap, so the cap explosion wouldn't obscure the effect of the NG. In the end I used a coloumn of AP 2mm in diameter and 9mm long, pressed with about 40 lbs ( thats about 8000 psi ).
No detonation.
I made several other tests both with NG and EGDN ( and I'm still making tests ), and at this point, I think NG is really much safer than AP or HMTD. EGDN is somewhat more stable than NG, but NG is stable enough if you are used to the safety precautions that go with AP.
Hint: NG mixes with nitromethane. The addition of NM makes it more stable, and with a mixture of 8.2% NM and 91.8% NG you have a perfect oxygen balance....
blackadder
Frequent Poster
Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 02, 2001 08:38 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When NH4N03 is mixed with H20, an endothermic reaction takes place, what is the resulting chemical and how would one extract the NH4N03 from it?
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 02, 2001 09:19 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Simply by heating the solution to 100C and allowing the water to come out. Then cool down in an enclosed vessel with some dessicant (in another recipient) like CaCl2 or anhydrous CuSO4 or MgSO4. add a little ethanol to ensure taking all the water away.
It should cristallise as white clouds on the walls. take them en put them in the sun on a black surface or in an open oven at medium temp!
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o )"
blackadder
Frequent Poster
Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 02, 2001 11:57 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks, PHILOU.
I'm trying to extract all of the NH4NO3 out of those used instant cold packs that I have lying around.
They work by puncturing a bag of NH4NO3, which is inside a bag of water, the two substances mix, the reaction takes place, and the water becomes cold.
[This message has been edited by blackadder (edited February 02, 2001).]
Detonator
Frequent Poster
Posts: 132
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted February 03, 2001 08:43 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PHILLO I have problems getting all the water out from AN, any suggestions?
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 03, 2001 11:49 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No reaction takes place when you dissolve AN in water. It's a minor point, but I thought I'd point it out anyway.
EGDN is more stable than NG at slighlty elevated temperatures, so I make it instead of NG if I ever need a liquid explosive. Mix it with acetone, 75% EGDN : 25% acetone to make it less sensitive.
To dry AN, just powder it and put it in an oven at 105*C for a few hours, and store it in an airtight container.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 03, 2001 11:52 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
P.S. - don't bother making AN. If you look around, you're bound to find an agricultural supplier that will sell you 55lb for about $40. I can get 55lb for £27.50. Not a bad price.